Is God real post your thoughts!

[22pepsi22]

There is a famous quote/argument that goes a little something like this....

 

 

 

God is omnipotent and all loving. If so, why does suffering exist?

 

 

 

Either, he is willing to remove it, but cannot, so he is not omnipotent.

 

He can, but will not, so he is not all loving.

 

He neither is willing or has the power to do so, so he is not God.

 

 

 

 

 

There is such a thing as tough love, you know. You can't learn from mistakes if you are not allowed to make them.

 

 

 

We are all given choices. Choices to do the right thing, choices to do the wrong thing. Sometimes we don't make a choice at all and it seems to either help or hurts us. Our decisions may only seem to affect us in the present, but, they will certainly add up in the end.

 

 

 

Life has suffering because of sin. This life is merely the tarnished remnant of a world that was once perfect.

 

 

 

I would argue that an all-loving, all-powerful being would spare the tests and suffering of life (tough love, as you call it) and send everyone straight to heaven. Sure, we wouldn't be able to learn from mistakes or really appreciate what we have in human terms, but God could impart us with knowledge and appreciation as well. But he didn't. Why?

 

 

 

Why test humanity with a piece of fruit? Why make a snake he knew would tempt humans into eating the fruit and why be surprised when the inevitable, already-known result happened? Added, I question the morals of a god who damns the decendants of people who commit a crime. I would expect nothing less than a clean slate for everyone from a moral, loving being.

 

 

 

Of course, a possible answer to some of these questions is that God isn't really all-loving. Maybe he just doesn't care that much? Maybe he was just mad on the day he made the Ebola virus?

 

 

 

Maybe humans and God have different views on what "love" is? Love could be considered opinionated, couldn't it? :roll:

 

 

 

And, maybe we go back to that whole free will thing. Satan had a choice to do what he did. He had a choice because God let him have a choice. Thus, sin. And God didn't damn anyone. If He damned us then there would be no Heaven. We'd just live in an imperfect world forever. We don't. God didn't just go and scrap the idea of us. He fixed it. Now there's Heaven. We all get a clean slate in the end. We just have to ask for it.

 

 

 

As for the whole Ebola Virus, pestilence and what not. They are there for a reason. Whether it's just another form of "predator" or what-have-you. Viruses have proven useful in the advancement of medicines and such. It's not necessarily bad. It's just... life.

 

 

 

And, to me it seems this whole thing has gone from "existence" to "fairness." We're just questioning the different ideals of a God. Maybe that's the only thing we humans are capable of finding out.

 

 

 

Yes, this. VVVV

[Alg]

Viruses are population controllers. Probably better to die by them than of starvation with the rest of the now enormous population

[mmmcannibalism]

Maybe humans and God have different views on what "love" is? Love could be considered opinionated, couldn't it?

 

 

 

And, maybe we go back to that whole free will thing. Satan had a choice to do what he did. He had a choice because God let him have a choice. Thus, sin. And God didn't damn anyone. If He damned us then there would be no Heaven. We'd just live in an imperfect world forever. We don't. God didn't just go and scrap the idea of us. He fixed it. Now there's Heaven. We all get a clean slate in the end. We just have to ask for it.

 

 

 

Which doesn't dissolve the fact that it would be better for all parties to send everyone straight to heaven without passing earth and imparting knowledge to them.

 

 

 

It's like the parent metaphor, you wouldn't necessarily go back to stop your child from doing something wrong; but if you could teach them not to do something without them having to be harmed you would.

 

 

 

Secondly, the bible says that at the end of time god will damn people for eternity; that means they can't choose to accept him at a later time.

[warri0r45]

Maybe humans and God have different views on what "love" is? Love could be considered opinionated, couldn't it?

 

 

 

Humans claim that God is all-loving, and they don't mean by his standards. What you're doing is explaining away the problem with a cop out.

 

 

 

And, maybe we go back to that whole free will thing. Satan had a choice to do what he did. He had a choice because God let him have a choice. Thus, sin. And God didn't damn anyone. If He damned us then there would be no Heaven. We'd just live in an imperfect world forever. We don't. God didn't just go and scrap the idea of us. He fixed it. Now there's Heaven. We all get a clean slate in the end. We just have to ask for it.

 

 

 

As for the whole Ebola Virus, pestilence and what not. They are there for a reason. Whether it's just another form of "predator" or what-have-you. Viruses have proven useful in the advancement of medicines and such. It's not necessarily bad. It's just... life.

 

 

 

Whether or not Satan had free will is beside the point. I'm saying that God made Satan knowing he would tempt Adam and Eve and God put the tree in the garden, so he set us up knowing we would fail when he could have bypassed the test all together. As I said:

 

I would argue that an all-loving, all-powerful being would spare the tests and suffering of life (tough love, as you call it) and send everyone straight to heaven. Sure, we wouldn't be able to learn from mistakes or really appreciate what we have in human terms, but God could impart us with knowledge and appreciation as well. But he didn't. Why?

Added, he seemed to be shocked when Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Why would an all-knowing being be shocked by anything? Why would a supposedly perfect being even need to create anything, let alone need your worship every Sunday? That's really beside the point, though.

 

 

 

As for the point on viruses, so I take it you feel Ebola, let's say as a means of population control, is perfectly congruent with an all-loving being? Why would an all-loving being afflict his children in such a way? Why would an all-loving being even need population control? That concept doesn't make sense, not to mention how sick and twisted it is.

 

 

 

Let's say his motives for creating such a virus were so that we could figure out how to combat the virus... hold on a minute, how does that make it better at all? If that were the case, it's like giving people guns to kill each other, but justifying it by saying they have the ability to dismantle the guns to stop the killing. I'm not really against the idea of a God in general, I just think there are a lot of things about Christian theology that make no sense.

 

 

 

And, to me it seems this whole thing has gone from "existence" to "fairness." We're just questioning the different ideals of a God. Maybe that's the only thing we humans are capable of finding out.

 

 

 

Yes, and it doesn't look like you addressed the other point I made either:

 

I question the morals of a god who damns the decendants of people who commit a crime. I would expect nothing less than a clean slate for everyone from a moral, loving being.

 

Is that really fair? Would it be fair for your children to pay for your crimes?

[22pepsi22]

Answers in Underline.

 

 

 

Maybe humans and God have different views on what "love" is? Love could be considered opinionated, couldn't it?

 

 

 

Humans claim that God is all-loving, and they don't mean by his standards. What you're doing is explaining away the problem with a cop out.

 

 

 

Thst was actually a joke. I didn't really mean for you to take it seriously. Hence the " :roll: "

 

 

 

And, maybe we go back to that whole free will thing. Satan had a choice to do what he did. He had a choice because God let him have a choice. Thus, sin. And God didn't damn anyone. If He damned us then there would be no Heaven. We'd just live in an imperfect world forever. We don't. God didn't just go and scrap the idea of us. He fixed it. Now there's Heaven. We all get a clean slate in the end. We just have to ask for it.

 

 

 

As for the whole Ebola Virus, pestilence and what not. They are there for a reason. Whether it's just another form of "predator" or what-have-you. Viruses have proven useful in the advancement of medicines and such. It's not necessarily bad. It's just... life.

 

 

 

Whether or not Satan had free will is beside the point. I'm saying that God made Satan knowing he would tempt Adam and Eve and God put the tree in the garden, so he set us up knowing we would fail when he could have bypassed the test all together. As I said:

 

I would argue that an all-loving, all-powerful being would spare the tests and suffering of life (tough love, as you call it) and send everyone straight to heaven. Sure, we wouldn't be able to learn from mistakes or really appreciate what we have in human terms, but God could impart us with knowledge and appreciation as well. But he didn't. Why?

Added, he seemed to be shocked when Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Why would an all-knowing being be shocked by anything? Why would a supposedly perfect being even need to create anything, let alone need your worship every Sunday? That's really beside the point, though.

 

 

 

That whole Sunday Mass thing was developed by humans. Some like to say we do it because God rested after creating the world on a Sunday. Some like to say because it's the first day of the week we give it to God. And I said this before, but, some people believe some Bible stories merely explain the "why" everything is as it is rather than "how." Not to say the Bible is lying, but, we really can't know how the world was created.

 

 

 

God also created humans because He loved us. Simple as that. Did He need to? Probably not. Did He want to? I guess.

 

 

 

As for the point on viruses, so I take it you feel Ebola, let's say as a means of population control, is perfectly congruent with an all-loving being? Why would an all-loving being afflict his children in such a way? Why would an all-loving being even need population control? That concept doesn't make sense, not to mention how sick and twisted it is.

 

 

 

So you're saying life is sick and twisted? A cat eats a bird. Does that make the cat sick or twisted? It's just another "creature" out there trying to do what it does best. Does it do it with malice or hate? No. It just does it to survive.

 

 

 

Let's say his motives for creating such a virus were so that we could figure out how to combat the virus... hold on a minute, how does that make it better at all? If that were the case, it's like giving people guns to kill each other, but justifying it by saying they have the ability to dismantle the guns to stop the killing. I'm not really against the idea of a God in general, I just think there are a lot of things about Christian theology that make no sense.

 

 

 

The Ebola Virus has the ability to be the median in delivering medicine to humans. I'm not sure if it is still in testing or not, but, that's what I read. Viruses can have more use than just defending people from the more harmful aspects of itself.

 

 

And, to me it seems this whole thing has gone from "existence" to "fairness." We're just questioning the different ideals of a God. Maybe that's the only thing we humans are capable of finding out.

 

 

 

Yes, and it doesn't look like you addressed the other point I made either:

 

I question the morals of a god who damns the decendants of people who commit a crime. I would expect nothing less than a clean slate for everyone from a moral, loving being.

 

Is that really fair? Would it be fair for your children to pay for your crimes?

 

 

 

 

And, maybe we go back to that whole free will thing. Satan had a choice to do what he did. He had a choice because God let him have a choice. Thus, sin. And God didn't damn anyone. If He damned us then there would be no Heaven. We'd just live in an imperfect world forever. We don't. God didn't just go and scrap the idea of us. He fixed it. Now there's Heaven. We all get a clean slate in the end. We just have to ask for it.

 

 

 

 

Don't know if that was the type of answer you were looking for, but, that kind of was my answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the "skip life" and everyone just goes to Heaven. God is still giving us help, which shows He is benevolent. Was it ever said that the help would be instant? Maybe we just need to have a little patience. God made us, and He knew everything would happen as it did. He let it happen because it was our choices that made it happen. Sending us to Heaven would be the same as if He "modified" our "blueprints" and made us perfect "robots."

[sphinxor86]

 

Also the full quote:

 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

 

 

 

 

Thats the one! Thanks :)

 

 

 

Cool avatar, where from?

[JeremyM]

Yes he is real.

[Nenga]

Yes he is real.

 

This is TIF, we require people to state why they believe these things so we can rip the beliefs apart and rape their childhood memories.

 

 

 

Edit: Holy, that didn't censor :shock:

[mmmcannibalism]

rebuttles in bold

 

Answers in Underline.

 

 

 

Maybe humans and God have different views on what "love" is? Love could be considered opinionated, couldn't it?

 

 

 

Humans claim that God is all-loving, and they don't mean by his standards. What you're doing is explaining away the problem with a cop out.

 

 

 

Thst was actually a joke. I didn't really mean for you to take it seriously. Hence the " :roll: "

 

 

 

And, maybe we go back to that whole free will thing. Satan had a choice to do what he did. He had a choice because God let him have a choice. Thus, sin. And God didn't damn anyone. If He damned us then there would be no Heaven. We'd just live in an imperfect world forever. We don't. God didn't just go and scrap the idea of us. He fixed it. Now there's Heaven. We all get a clean slate in the end. We just have to ask for it.

 

 

 

As for the whole Ebola Virus, pestilence and what not. They are there for a reason. Whether it's just another form of "predator" or what-have-you. Viruses have proven useful in the advancement of medicines and such. It's not necessarily bad. It's just... life.

 

 

 

Whether or not Satan had free will is beside the point. I'm saying that God made Satan knowing he would tempt Adam and Eve and God put the tree in the garden, so he set us up knowing we would fail when he could have bypassed the test all together. As I said:

 

I would argue that an all-loving, all-powerful being would spare the tests and suffering of life (tough love, as you call it) and send everyone straight to heaven. Sure, we wouldn't be able to learn from mistakes or really appreciate what we have in human terms, but God could impart us with knowledge and appreciation as well. But he didn't. Why?

Added, he seemed to be shocked when Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Why would an all-knowing being be shocked by anything? Why would a supposedly perfect being even need to create anything, let alone need your worship every Sunday? That's really beside the point, though.

 

 

 

That whole Sunday Mass thing was developed by humans. Some like to say we do it because God rested after creating the world on a Sunday. Some like to say because it's the first day of the week we give it to God. And I said this before, but, some people believe some Bible stories merely explain the "why" everything is as it is rather than "how." Not to say the Bible is lying, but, we really can't know how the world was created.

 

 

 

God also created humans because He loved us. Simple as that. Did He need to? Probably not. Did He want to? I guess.

 

 

 

Okay then, so anything in the bible might be a complete fabrication to teach a point. Of course since we now can't trust the "holy" book to be telling the truth about anything we might as well assume jesus didn't exist since his suffering just teaches a lesson. Secondly; that isn't an answer to the question of how god could be shocked if he was all knowing

 

As for the point on viruses, so I take it you feel Ebola, let's say as a means of population control, is perfectly congruent with an all-loving being? Why would an all-loving being afflict his children in such a way? Why would an all-loving being even need population control? That concept doesn't make sense, not to mention how sick and twisted it is.

 

 

 

So you're saying life is sick and twisted? A cat eats a bird. Does that make the cat sick or twisted? It's just another "creature" out there trying to do what it does best. Does it do it with malice or hate? No. It just does it to survive.

 

 

 

No, the concept that god would need to create suffering to ensure life is what is being called sick and twisted(I dont necessarily agree). A simple solution(assuming intelligent design) would be to make human fertility drop drastically in case of severe malnutrition.

 

 

 

Let's say his motives for creating such a virus were so that we could figure out how to combat the virus... hold on a minute, how does that make it better at all? If that were the case, it's like giving people guns to kill each other, but justifying it by saying they have the ability to dismantle the guns to stop the killing. I'm not really against the idea of a God in general, I just think there are a lot of things about Christian theology that make no sense.

 

 

 

The Ebola Virus has the ability to be the median in delivering medicine to humans. I'm not sure if it is still in testing or not, but, that's what I read. Viruses can have more use than just defending people from the more harmful aspects of itself.

 

 

And, to me it seems this whole thing has gone from "existence" to "fairness." We're just questioning the different ideals of a God. Maybe that's the only thing we humans are capable of finding out.

 

 

 

Yes, and it doesn't look like you addressed the other point I made either:

 

I question the morals of a god who damns the decendants of people who commit a crime. I would expect nothing less than a clean slate for everyone from a moral, loving being.

 

Is that really fair? Would it be fair for your children to pay for your crimes?

 

 

 

 

And, maybe we go back to that whole free will thing. Satan had a choice to do what he did. He had a choice because God let him have a choice. Thus, sin. And God didn't damn anyone. If He damned us then there would be no Heaven. We'd just live in an imperfect world forever. We don't. God didn't just go and scrap the idea of us. He fixed it. Now there's Heaven. We all get a clean slate in the end. We just have to ask for it.

 

 

 

 

Don't know if that was the type of answer you were looking for, but, that kind of was my answer.

 

 

 

If satan had a choice because god let him have a choice(being all knowing and therefore knowing the result) then god intentionally allowed humans to fall from grace and expose them to suffering. Secondly, god damned plenty of people cough the city of soddom cough

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the "skip life" and everyone just goes to Heaven. God is still giving us help, which shows He is benevolent. Was it ever said that the help would be instant? Maybe we just need to have a little patience. God made us, and He knew everything would happen as it did. He let it happen because it was our choices that made it happen. Sending us to Heaven would be the same as if He "modified" our "blueprints" and made us perfect "robots."

 

 

 

Let me put it this way

 

 

 

You have a dog in a maze and you have some controls that let you alter the maze in certain ways. You can either choose to give the dog a clear path(still rather long and tiresome) or let the dog take an equally long path with lots of tacks on the floor. Would you consider it benevolent to choose the route with the tacks since your still letting him get to the end?

[StrOwez]

[hide=]

 

 

 

Let me put it this way

 

 

 

You have a dog in a maze and you have some controls that let you alter the maze in certain ways. You can either choose to give the dog a clear path(still rather long and tiresome) or let the dog take an equally long path with lots of tacks on the floor. Would you consider it benevolent to choose the route with the tacks since your still letting him get to the end?

 

 

 

so that you could watch it fall and then get up again, for your entertainment.. seriously if I was a god I'd make humans for entertainment... He must love watching shows like 24/heroes/prison break etc...

 

 

 

I mean it must be lonely being a god, just sitting there.. creating planets... chatting to his son all the time, who's really actually isn't his son but himself....

[TheStandIn]

If got were real, then what on earth created (s)he/it?

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah:

 

 

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

I rest my case.

 

 

 

Well, that picure might give a good point if the artist had ever read the Bible. Jesus died, but then was resurrected, thus conquering death. After the resurrection, he ascended to heaven; never actually dieing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus. So if you take it literally, he didn't actually die. At least not in the way we know it.

 

 

 

As for what created God; he has always been. Doesn't make sense? How about these similar questions: How big is the universe? If there is a boundary, what's on the other side? What was there before the big bang? What created the stuff in the big bang? What caused the big bang was made of? Nobody really knows and maybe nobody ever will.

[Shinjula]

How about these similar questions: How big is the universe? If there is a boundary, what's on the other side? What was there before the big bang? What created the stuff in the big bang? What caused the big bang was made of? Nobody really knows and maybe nobody ever will.

Except that scientists are working on it, trying to construct fool proof methods of testing it rigorously.

 

 

 

Maybe if Christians were doing the same thing I'd give them the same level of respect.

[warri0r45]

If got were real, then what on earth created (s)he/it?

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah:

 

 

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

I rest my case.

 

 

 

Well, that picure might give a good point if the artist had ever read the Bible. Jesus died, but then was resurrected, thus conquering death. After the resurrection, he ascended to heaven; never actually dieing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus. So if you take it literally, he didn't actually die. At least not in the way we know it.

 

 

 

As for what created God; he has always been. Doesn't make sense? How about these similar questions: How big is the universe? If there is a boundary, what's on the other side? What was there before the big bang? What created the stuff in the big bang? What caused the big bang was made of? Nobody really knows and maybe nobody ever will.

 

 

 

Here's something I've always wanted to ask a Christian - why an ascension at all? Is heaven supposed to be in the sky?

[Alg]

Well since back then we couldn't get to the sky that's probably why they put heaven there.

 

 

 

How about these similar questions: How big is the universe? If there is a boundary, what's on the other side? What was there before the big bang? What created the stuff in the big bang? What caused the big bang was made of? Nobody really knows and maybe nobody ever will.

Except that scientists are working on it, trying to construct fool proof methods of testing it rigorously.

 

 

 

Maybe if Christians were doing the same thing I'd give them the same level of respect.

 

Though can you truly test the boundary of the universe? All scientists have so far is an estimate based on what we can see. Science still has a long way to go before fully answering any of those, and "working on it" isn't the same as having an answer.

 

Though did you ever stop to think that some Christians may be the ones working on it? There are a couple billion, so it isn't unlikely...

[TheStandIn]

Here's something I've always wanted to ask a Christian - why an ascension at all? Is heaven supposed to be in the sky?

 

 

 

Well, it doesn't necessarily mean it's just right up there in the clouds. Look up and you will see the whole big universe out there. Maybe it's somewhere out there? Or maybe it's in a separate dimension all together. Who knows. I can't imagine heaven in a gigantic hole in the ground.

 

 

 

Isn't it highly hypocritical that God doesn't have to have a creator but the universe does?

 

 

 

A little. Maybe God does have a creator. But then who created that creator? It goes in an infinite loop. But if you compare the two, hasn't the universe always existed? Even before the big bang, that infinitely small, infinitely dense "speck" had to of existed too. So it's kinda the same as well.

 

 

 

Except that scientists are working on it, trying to construct fool proof methods of testing it rigorously.

 

Maybe if Christians were doing the same thing I'd give them the same level of respect.

 

 

 

That's what pretty much every figure of every single religion has been trying to do since the fist religions were formed. Except there is a pretty big problem. How does one construct a fool proof testing method of God? You really can't. There is the Bible/Torah/Quran ect., but even that isn't concrete, and definitely not fool proof. That's why faith is such a big part of every religion.

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

That's why faith is such a big part of every religion.

 

Every single debate i have with a christian comes back to this exact same point.

 

 

 

On faith....how do you choose which god to believe in? When you have no logical basis, why is Yahweh any more believable than Thor, Zeus, Voldamort or The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

[Nenga]

That's why faith is such a big part of every religion.

 

Every single debate i have with a christian comes back to this exact same point.

 

 

 

On faith....how do you choose which god to believe in? When you have no logical basis, why is Yahweh any more believable than Thor, Zeus, Voldamort or The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

 

Odin is the supreme god in norse mythology and thor just a lesser god... :geek:

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

That's why faith is such a big part of every religion.

 

Every single debate i have with a christian comes back to this exact same point.

 

 

 

On faith....how do you choose which god to believe in? When you have no logical basis, why is Yahweh any more believable than Thor, Zeus, Voldamort or The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

 

Odin is the supreme god in norse mythology and thor just a lesser god... :geek:

 

 

 

You can still worship Thor as a god. :ugeek:

[warri0r45]

Here's something I've always wanted to ask a Christian - why an ascension at all? Is heaven supposed to be in the sky?

 

 

 

Well, it doesn't necessarily mean it's just right up there in the clouds. Look up and you will see the whole big universe out there. Maybe it's somewhere out there? Or maybe it's in a separate dimension all together. Who knows. I can't imagine heaven in a gigantic hole in the ground.

 

 

 

I suspect the belief in ascension is because people back in those times literally believed that heaven was in the sky. Now that we know it's not, there's no reason why Jesus would have ascended, is there? You may argue that heaven is in the universe somewhere, but, apart from having no evidence whatsoever, that's at odds with Christian belief I would have thought. Don't you guys believe that heaven is supernatural? The idea that you would need to go in a direction to get there just seems silly.

[mmmcannibalism]

Here's something I've always wanted to ask a Christian - why an ascension at all? Is heaven supposed to be in the sky?

 

 

 

Well, it doesn't necessarily mean it's just right up there in the clouds. Look up and you will see the whole big universe out there. Maybe it's somewhere out there? Or maybe it's in a separate dimension all together. Who knows. I can't imagine heaven in a gigantic hole in the ground.

 

 

 

I suspect the belief in ascension is because people back in those times literally believed that heaven was in the sky. Now that we know it's not, there's no reason why Jesus would have ascended, is there? You may argue that heaven is in the universe somewhere, but, apart from having no evidence whatsoever, that's at odds with Christian belief I would have thought. Don't you guys believe that heaven is supernatural? The idea that you would need to go in a direction to get there just seems silly.

 

 

 

I think Jesus just did stuff so the magic industry would be able to sustain itself later on. Think about it; how many magic tricks involve doing something that happened in the bible(specifically walking on water or levitating).

 

 

 

on topic

 

 

 

It is getting more annoying each week for me to go to catholic mass just because of my parents. Mostly because the readings each week are never of signifigance(seriously half of them the point is jesus was god); also I really can't stand the fact that christianity seems like nothing more then population control.

[Jaffy1]

If got were real, then what on earth created (s)he/it?

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah:

 

 

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

I rest my case.

 

 

 

Well, that picure might give a good point if the artist had ever read the Bible. Jesus died, but then was resurrected, thus conquering death. After the resurrection, he ascended to heaven; never actually dieing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus. So if you take it literally, he didn't actually die. At least not in the way we know it.

 

 

 

As for what created God; he has always been. Doesn't make sense? How about these similar questions: How big is the universe? If there is a boundary, what's on the other side? What was there before the big bang? What created the stuff in the big bang? What caused the big bang was made of? Nobody really knows and maybe nobody ever will.

 

 

 

Here's something I've always wanted to ask a Christian - why an ascension at all? Is heaven supposed to be in the sky?

 

 

 

Well it's only natural for people to believe there's something after death because they fear the most likely (oblivion, nothingness).

 

 

 

I don't really believe in that big bang thing either. We simply don't know and therefore people should stop saying they know, or are right. If there was a god, than why did the only people that have seen or spoken with this person live 2000 years ago (where, mind you, people were quite retarted. -Was Jesus retarted like all people back then? Yes. So was mohammed and all those other prophets.).

 

 

 

Why would "god" be a male?

 

How can a male alone create the earth and everything on it?

 

Why do Bible, quran and other holy books contain things that aren't true?

 

If there was a god, why is the world so messed up, and why do people kill eachother for "their one true god"?

[mmmcannibalism]

If there was a god, than why did the only people that have seen or spoken with this person live 2000 years ago (where, mind you, people were quite retarted. -Was Jesus retarted like all people back then? Yes. So was mohammed and all those other prophets.).

 

 

 

So were mohammed and all those other prophets

 

 

 

Seriously, if your going to insult someone's intelligence don't make a basic grammatical error. Secondly, saying everyone was stupid back then is horribly foolish. Speaking especially of the arabs, huge swaths of our modern knowledge evolved from what these allegedly [developmentally delayed]ed people created.

[Jaffy1]

Seriously, if your going to insult someone's intelligence don't make a basic grammatical error. Secondly, saying everyone was stupid back then is horribly foolish. Speaking especially of the arabs, huge swaths of our modern knowledge evolved from what these allegedly [developmentally delayed] people created.

 

 

 

I am sure your level of Dutch and German is much higher than mine. :thumbdown:

 

Perhaps you should consider the posibility that English may not be everyone's first language.

 

Don't you try and tell me that every single native american is better at English than me, because I've seen many that fail at their own language. -.-

 

 

 

And yes, compared to now, they were "retarted" or less intelligent than we are now. Also, that does not prove any god's existence, nor answer any of the simple questions I asked.

[MirageOfDeath]

They weren't less intelligent, but less knowledgeable. 100 years from now people will know more but that doesn't make us [developmentally delayed]ed does it.

[TheStandIn]

 

I suspect the belief in ascension is because people back in those times literally believed that heaven was in the sky. Now that we know it's not, there's no reason why Jesus would have ascended, is there? You may argue that heaven is in the universe somewhere, but, apart from having no evidence whatsoever, that's at odds with Christian belief I would have thought. Don't you guys believe that heaven is supernatural? The idea that you would need to go in a direction to get there just seems silly.

 

 

 

A lot of stories in the Bible are metaphors, especially the New Testament, so Jesus' ascension may or may not literally happened. Ascension can have a lot of different meanings. And yes I believe heaven is in the supernatural "realm" or whatever, I was just stirring up different possibilities, as many religions have different, but still ultimately similar, versions/locations of an after life and I think they are interesting to think about.