22pepsi22 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I believe in God. Don't really care if you do or don't. In the end we will find out, so, believe whatever you feel you should believe. Supposedly God is empathetic, so, he would understand. If we end up rotting in the ground, then, well, it doesn't really matter anyways. It's essentially a win-win situation. Well... rotting in the ground doesn't seem very fun, but, the idea of no punishment for simply believing whatever you feel is the right choice during your lifetime seems nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I find it ironic that a God who gave us free will is willing to cast us into a pit of eternal torture if we don't accept him. Very true Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I find it ironic that a God who gave us free will is willing to cast us into a pit of eternal torture if we don't accept him. Especially since that same (manlike) God once allowed you to buy your get-out-of-jail-free card, just pay the man who sells it O:) Just shows that no matter how close to God you are, you're still a tiny, corruptible man. Except now you have power :D I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I find it ironic that a God who gave us free will is willing to cast us into a pit of eternal torture if we don't accept him. I also find it ironic that such a God flooded the world to kill almost everyone because he didn't like what they were doing. So we have free will, but God is only willing to go with it when he likes what we're doing? Doesn't make sense. In fact, it defeats the purpose of having free will in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenin64 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Something I've never quite understood about the whole Heaven and Hell thing: Why would hell be fire and pain and brimstone? If satan was supposedly the angel that rebelled, wouldn't he want to reward those that piss of god? Sure, the devil might be evil and all that, but I'd be more satisfied with giving a big "[bleep] you!" to someone I despise and knowing they'd be angry for eternity than going with their plans and me having some enjoyment. Plus, it's rewarding the kind of bad behavior the devil likes anyway, right? Logically, if the Christian religion is correct, it would be a win-win situation for everybody. Unless I'm percieving the whole thing wrong. Command the Murderous Chalices! Drink ye harpooners! drink and swear, ye men that man the deathful whaleboat's bow- Death to Moby Dick!BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You'd want people to suffer for their intentional negative actions, wouldn't you? If faith said that both good and bad deeds reward, it wouldn't exactly be good for society, would it? No interest in a what is good vs bad debate though :lol: I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Something I've never quite understood about the whole Heaven and Hell thing: Why would hell be fire and pain and brimstone? If satan was supposedly the angel that rebelled, wouldn't he want to reward those that piss of god? Sure, the devil might be evil and all that, but I'd be more satisfied with giving a big "[bleep] you!" to someone I despise and knowing they'd be angry for eternity than going with their plans and me having some enjoyment. Plus, it's rewarding the kind of bad behavior the devil likes anyway, right? Logically, if the Christian religion is correct, it would be a win-win situation for everybody. Unless I'm percieving the whole thing wrong. You see, the devil's job is to decieve people so he gets to torture people...wait a minute...the devil is doing what god wants him to. So lets see now, the devil rebelled yet he is doing god's will(in being the punisher). Me thinks we have stumbled upon a logical flaw. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinjula Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 One of the things I find most intolerable about it is that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. A single sin which is unrepented gives you an eternity of damnation, even if that sin is something small. Let me say that again, a punishment lasting an eternity!!! Differences in sin are not qualified with different punishments, and different amounts of sin are not qualified with different punishments. After death no repentance is possible but if you can repent in the last seconds of life forgiveness is automatically given. What sort of a crazy [wagon] justice system is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22pepsi22 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Ok. Maybe my opinion on some things here is necessary. This is what I believe through faith. 1. Heaven is not necessarily a Valhalla like place with a giant golden castle, and Hell is not necessarily fire and brimstone. It's just describing it. Heaven is bliss and Hell is, well, Hell. It's torture. 2. Free will. We do have free will. It's like the justice system. You CAN choose to kill someone. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences of your actions. Free will is merely the choice to choose. You can choose to be a good person (most people really are naturally, though) or you can choose to be a bad person. 3. Something my religion teacher (the head priest at my parish) told me was to stop taking the Bible so literally. He said some of the Bibles stories can be described as "myths." Now, not myths in the sense they are fake, but, myths in that they are there to explain the "why" rather than the "how." Why did God do this? Not how did God do this. This is also an explanation to the "omg dinosaurs!" and "omg Adam and Eve" theories. 4. Sinning once doesn't mean you're for the fiery pit. There is something called purgatory. Purgatory, like it's name implies, is there to "purge" the imperfection from the human soul. It is believed that only pure beings can enter Heaven and Purgatory is the means of preparation. My religion teaches that when you die, you face individual judgement where through your character you are either deemed worthy of Heaven or Hell. If you are remorseful and sorry for your sins, then you will go to Purgatory to be cleaned or Heaven if you have confessed your sins. If you are not sorry for your sins, then Hell is the next stop. At the end of the world is the Final Judgment. All the souls living and dead (excluding those in Hell) are reunited with their resurrected bodies and are judged again. So, it only becomes too late to enter Heaven when you are in Hell. 5. Satan does not reward you for your acts against God. He is the Deceiver. He uses humans like tools in His acts to piss off God. 6. God does not hate. He does not hate people. He becomes disappointed with us, sure, but who are we humans to judge God? He does not punish those who do not believe. He sends those away who CHOOSE to not be with him in the end. Satan punishes people. Why? Because he probably enjoys it I guess. Maybe he feels those who reject God deserve to go through what he had to when he was defeated in the war between Heaven and the rebellion. A form of satisfaction for him, I suppose. We are also tortured by our own choice to not be with God. God is not in Hell, and the only reason life is bearable right now is because of God's presence. No God = no happiness. Again, this is my faith. Please, note the word faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 5. Satan does not reward you for your acts against God. He is the Deceiver. He uses humans like tools in His acts to piss off God. So satan rebelled against god, yet convienently satan does the punishing that god needs someone for? That would be like punching your boss at work so you could get a promotion. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22pepsi22 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 5. Satan does not reward you for your acts against God. He is the Deceiver. He uses humans like tools in His acts to piss off God. So satan rebelled against god, yet convienently satan does the punishing that god needs someone for? That would be like punching your boss at work so you could get a promotion. I have already replied to that question. It could be that he feels you "deserve" it. He had to go through it when he rebelled, why shouldn't you? And, it's not like he cares about you anyways. He uses you. And God doesn't punish, the punishment is not brought on by God. The pure absence of God is what makes you suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 3. Something my religion teacher (the head priest at my parish) told me was to stop taking the Bible so literally. He said some of the Bibles stories can be described as "myths." Now, not myths in the sense they are fake, but, myths in that they are there to explain the "why" rather than the "how." Why did God do this? Not how did God do this. This is also an explanation to the "omg dinosaurs!" and "omg Adam and Eve" theories.We can't say myths are completely untrue if we are debating god. They are just the older theories of it with little knowledge of how the world works. Myths/religions are a tool to explain the world around you, that's all. I've said before the actual god debate isn't if something came first, as something had to. It's if that thing has consciousness. Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 5. Satan does not reward you for your acts against God. He is the Deceiver. He uses humans like tools in His acts to piss off God. So satan rebelled against god, yet convienently satan does the punishing that god needs someone for? That would be like punching your boss at work so you could get a promotion. I have already replied to that question. It could be that he feels you "deserve" it. He had to go through it when he rebelled, why shouldn't you? And, it's not like he cares about you anyways. He uses you. And God doesn't punish, the punishment is not brought on by God. The pure absence of God is what makes you suffer. If god willfully sends someone to a situation where they have no options but to suffer then god is punishing them. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22pepsi22 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If god willfully sends someone to a situation where they have no options but to suffer then god is punishing them. God does it because he respects your decision. He's not punishing you, YOU are punishing you by choosing "no thanks." He respects your free will, so YOU choose by your own free will to go. He wants to be with you, but, he's not calling the shots, you are. If someone doesn't want to be with him then there is only one other place you can go, which is hell. It's either Heaven (being totally with God) or Hell (being totally without God). There is no "middle ground." Like I said. The actual punishment is the absence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If god willfully sends someone to a situation where they have no options but to suffer then god is punishing them. God does it because he respects your decision. He's not punishing you, YOU are punishing you by choosing "no thanks." He respects your free will, so YOU choose by your own free will to go. He wants to be with you, but, he's not calling the shots, you are. If someone doesn't want to be with him then there is only one other place you can go, which is hell. It's either Heaven (being totally with God) or Hell (being totally without God). There is no "middle ground." Like I said. The actual punishment is the absence of God. So are you saying there is no fire or torture? If so then hell seems fun, I mean if its just the abscense of god I think I can live with that; all the atheists in the world don't seem to be writhing in pain. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If so then hell seems fun, I mean if its just the abscense of god I think I can live with that; all the atheists in the world don't seem to be writhing in pain. So, Hell for Atheists would be as close to God as possible, with Him constantly reminding them that he existed? :lol: Still far better than torture I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22pepsi22 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So are you saying there is no fire or torture? If so then hell seems fun, I mean if its just the absence of god I think I can live with that; all the atheists in the world don't seem to be writhing in pain. Given the belief that God is where all happiness, love, good stuff, compassion, etc. comes from, His absence would also mean the absence of that as well. That is what I was implying in my previous post, but, I guess I was a little vague on that part. Unless you enjoy endless pure sadness, except I don't really get how you would enjoy it if the word "enjoy" would be non-existent in Hell. And I do mean pure sadness as in no happiness... at all... whatsoever. I wasn't just saying being without God would suck because he's super cool or something. But that it would suck because it actually would suck. EDIT- Oh, right. I guess I should mention that my faith believes God is everywhere and in everything (except Hell). Even if you don't accept him He still is there (except Hell...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If god willfully sends someone to a situation where they have no options but to suffer then god is punishing them. God does it because he respects your decision. He's not punishing you, YOU are punishing you by choosing "no thanks." He respects your free will, so YOU choose by your own free will to go. He wants to be with you, but, he's not calling the shots, you are. If someone doesn't want to be with him then there is only one other place you can go, which is hell. It's either Heaven (being totally with God) or Hell (being totally without God). There is no "middle ground." Like I said. The actual punishment is the absence of God. So are you saying there is no fire or torture? If so then hell seems fun, I mean if its just the abscense of god I think I can live with that; all the atheists in the world don't seem to be writhing in pain. You do the exact same thing in Hell as in Heaven. The only difference is that in Heaven you are happy and willing to do it and in Hell you are sad and angry about having to do it. And it works, so don't question it. God tells you you can enter heaven and live in eternal joy and bliss, you just have to ask. It's not hard to ask, so any little sin you don't pray for deserves a large scale punishment, although the punishment is not really a punishment rather just not a reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And it works, so don't question it I declare that all people who believe in god are burnt in an eternal fire after death; and it works, so don't question it. Also, unless you wish to claim that eating pizza and playing chess are equivilant to god Ive managed to be happy in something that didnt involve god. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And it works, so don't question it I declare that all people who believe in god are burnt in an eternal fire after death; and it works, so don't question it. Also, unless you wish to claim that eating pizza and playing chess are equivilant to god Ive managed to be happy in something that didnt involve god. Obviously you don't know true happiness because you have never known God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And it works, so don't question it I declare that all people who believe in god are burnt in an eternal fire after death; and it works, so don't question it. Also, unless you wish to claim that eating pizza and playing chess are equivilant to god Ive managed to be happy in something that didnt involve god. Obviously you don't know true happiness because you have never known God. In actuality, Im having a blast right now. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Obviously you don't know true happiness because you have never known God. I believe in a God, I doubt I'll ever know Him/Her/It beyond the concept. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Obviously you don't know true happiness because you have never known God. I believe in a God, I doubt I'll ever know Him/Her/It. So... Satan believes in God. It doesn't mean anything to just believe in God. You have to, as I said before, ask and you will receive. Then you will know God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If god willfully sends someone to a situation where they have no options but to suffer then god is punishing them. God does it because he respects your decision. He's not punishing you, YOU are punishing you by choosing "no thanks." He respects your free will, so YOU choose by your own free will to go. He wants to be with you, but, he's not calling the shots, you are. If someone doesn't want to be with him then there is only one other place you can go, which is hell. It's either Heaven (being totally with God) or Hell (being totally without God). There is no "middle ground." Like I said. The actual punishment is the absence of God. So are you saying there is no fire or torture? If so then hell seems fun, I mean if its just the abscense of god I think I can live with that; all the atheists in the world don't seem to be writhing in pain. You do the exact same thing in Hell as in Heaven. The only difference is that in Heaven you are happy and willing to do it and in Hell you are sad and angry about having to do it. And it works, so don't question it. God tells you you can enter heaven and live in eternal joy and bliss, you just have to ask. It's not hard to ask, so any little sin you don't pray for deserves a large scale punishment, although the punishment is not really a punishment rather just not a reward. Everyone has there own mind and it's wrong to say they'll all think the same way. Heaven or hell if you don't want to do something you won't like it. Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If god willfully sends someone to a situation where they have no options but to suffer then god is punishing them. God does it because he respects your decision. He's not punishing you, YOU are punishing you by choosing "no thanks." He respects your free will, so YOU choose by your own free will to go. He wants to be with you, but, he's not calling the shots, you are. If someone doesn't want to be with him then there is only one other place you can go, which is hell. It's either Heaven (being totally with God) or Hell (being totally without God). There is no "middle ground." Like I said. The actual punishment is the absence of God. So are you saying there is no fire or torture? If so then hell seems fun, I mean if its just the abscense of god I think I can live with that; all the atheists in the world don't seem to be writhing in pain. You do the exact same thing in Hell as in Heaven. The only difference is that in Heaven you are happy and willing to do it and in Hell you are sad and angry about having to do it. And it works, so don't question it. God tells you you can enter heaven and live in eternal joy and bliss, you just have to ask. It's not hard to ask, so any little sin you don't pray for deserves a large scale punishment, although the punishment is not really a punishment rather just not a reward. Everyone has there own mind and it's wrong to say they'll all think the same way. Heaven or hell if you don't want to do something you won't like it. I never said that everyone does the same thing as others, I said that Heaven and Hell are the same, except in one you enjoy what you do and do what you enjoy, the other you do exactly what you would do in the other, just in forced punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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