Is God real post your thoughts!

[Harakiri]

Ratchet573 Presents: General Thoughts on Religion

 

 

 

1. Applying Religion To My Life

 

School can sometimes be considered a cesspool for idiots. At least, by me.

 

Being an atheist, and being at a black school (not to be racist, I am sure someone will take this the wrong way), I find myself surrounded by Christians daily. Black people (remember, not rascist) are mostly a very religious group.

 

So, as an atheist, I am looked down on. Which is funny, because would this "God" want any group to be looked down upon. My best friend said that he had told his pastor that I was an atheist, so his pastor told him that we couldn't be friends. How does that make sense at all? I can compare this to the way that blacks and whites could not be friends during the thirties, fourties, and fifties. Why can't I be a friend because I have different beliefs?

 

My little brother also has problems with Christians. He made the mistake of saying he was atheist (it was considered a mistake by him, which I can't say it was), so now everyone makes fun of him and follows him around saying "You'll go to hell." which falls upon deaf ears when he doesn't believe in god...

 

Atheists though are growing in numbers. Many teenagers do not follow religion. Everytime I talk to a friend and the topic of religion was brought up, we would always have some kind of "Prove God is not real" contest.

 

 

 

2. How To Prove God Isn't Real

 

I hate this subject because a lot of people don't realize the fact that there is ultimately no possble way to say God is real, and no possible way to say he isn't.

 

One question I normally ask though is "If God is so powerful, could he create a rock that even he couldn't lift up? Wouldn't that make the rock more powerful?". One of the normal responses, that in no way answers the question is "The creator is more powerful than the thing he created".

 

Which in no way makes sense. If god is crushed by a large rock he couldn't even hold up, would he still be able to destroy it?

 

How can you disprove an atheist though? We have no religious beliefs. You can't say "God is real" and disprove us because where the hell is the proof.

 

Another normal reply to "Is their proof of God?" is "The Bible".

 

Let me explain quite simply, that most of the Bible is a culmination of various people who say they had "Visions". The book of Revelations (my favorite book in the bible since it's so [bleep]ed up) was written by a guy living in a cave who said he had a vision. I one time had a vision too...it was called a DREAM!

 

 

 

3. A Very Large Point

 

CHRISTIANS ARE THE MOST DEFENSIVE RELIGIOUS GROUP IN THE WORLD!

 

Deny god, and next thing you know you are bombarded by everyone in a mile radius. Why are Christians so defensive? You can't make a goddam joke about God to them without them going berserk.

 

I know quite a few Arabs, and they don't give a thought less if I make the occasional Allah joke. Hell, why can they or Buddhists or any others be around and not condemned by Christians? Is it because all the religions involve a god? Why can't a scientologist say we were created by an alien? I asked my friend, and he said it was because it is to unbelievable.

 

Almost as believable as some...thing that has been around since the beginning of time and created the Earth? How the hell did he show up anyway?

 

 

 

4. A Burning Question

 

If the Christian God was real, and a Buddhist died, would he go to hell because he didn't follow the "Ways of God"? Is GOd so screwed up that he only wants people who praise him to be around?

 

 

 

5. Something Missing

 

Where the hell are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? They were there long before Jesus, so wouldn't you think the Bible would have mentioned them? We have proof that dinosaurs are real...

 

 

 

6. Another Question

 

If you were the only being in a void of black, what would you do? You would create more people right? Why should we praise a guy who obviously needed some companionship in the first place?

 

 

 

7. This Guy Must Be Pretty Sick...

 

God flooded the Earth when people stopped believing in him (In my opinion, a douche bag kind of thing to do. "Yeah, [bleep] all your opinions, go to hell"). Nowadays though, it seems he doesn't care. He hasn't flooded the Earth even though there are many atheists. Why? Does he enjoy the fact that religion is the cause for many wars and countless deaths? Does he enjoy watching the whole human race screw each others? Does he enjoy watching us like we are some kind of television show? Is he waiting to see if we all die in a nuclear holocaust?

 

 

 

8. Some Final Words

 

I am sure this is just the spark of the flames that will probably we aimed at me, but whatever. I hope my opinions brought a little enlightenment.

[Alg]

^ I still fail to see where you're going with this. A *wiki* for Atheists by Atheists about how the Bible is flawed contributes nothing to the existence or lack thereof of God. You're just showing continually that the Bible is flawed, and I've been agreeing with that point. Religion =/= God

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

For point 2, that's why there's Agnosticism, I would think, and chances are they're right in that we won't (/can't) know

 

Though you can't always take a book's word for the truth about something that humanity can't know, when so much of it was actually written far after it was supposed to happen. Especially if there is that much power involved. There are around one billion Catholics alone, with maybe another billion in other denominations if the Wiki isn't wrong.

 

 

 

The point being, it's probably impossible to try to prove or disprove God's existence, as there is almost no evidence to either side.

[warri0r45]

Rocco, you're as bad as creationists at this point - all you're doing to insisting your point by posting random links and not engaging in any rational discussion whatsoever.

[Harakiri]

Exactly...there is no proof that any religion is right or wrong, so why the hell do we fight over religion like we do when there is no proof, nor any proof against any religion.

 

 

 

Just another thing I wanted to point out: Why do the Egyptians and Romans and Greeks get all the fun gods? Why did all the ancients civilizations have gods that had wars with each other, and there were multiple gods...how did it go from more than you can count, to one?

[Alg]

I'd think people fight over religion like they do with any other difference, color, nationality, etc.

 

Maybe they figured along the line that one was far more powerful than a lot that fought with one another. Though you're right in that they seem more fun :lol:

[Zierro]

That point not good enough either?

 

 

 

So be it.

 

 

 

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/The_Bible_and_Prophesy

 

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Bible_ ... in_a_field

 

 

 

And there's more where that came from, religion.

 

 

 

He's not saying that the Bible is completely truthful. He's just saying that some of the points that your links are making just blow things out of proportion for the sole intention of giving the religion a bad name.

 

 

 

And I agree with Warrior. Me posting this: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html does nothing for the discussion - there are some very good points made on the site but there are also cop-outs that just try to give atheism a bad name on the site too.

 

 

 

We could have intelligent folks doing all the work for us, but it's more fun to engage in it ourselves. Personal debating allows for flexibility. Posting links doesn't, because I'm sure you don't disagree with every single thing in my link and you don't agree with every single thing in your link. Thinking for yourself is a great thing.

 

 

 

Of course there is nothing wrong with referencing links, but if that's all you're gonna do then what's the point?

[mmmcannibalism]

4. A Burning Question

 

If the Christian God was real, and a Buddhist died, would he go to hell because he didn't follow the "Ways of God"? Is GOd so screwed up that he only wants people who praise him to be around?

 

 

 

5. Something Missing

 

Where the hell are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? They were there long before Jesus, so wouldn't you think the Bible would have mentioned them? We have proof that dinosaurs are real...

 

 

 

for the record I found the rest of your post quite good; these were just my favorite points

 

by the way if you want to be an arse go read up on how the bible justifies slavery for your christian friends(sorry I had to mention it)

 

 

 

4. Being that I was raised catholic I have heard something of the standard catholic explanation of this. According to the priests I heard from, you wont go to hell if you are a good person regardless of beliefs. That sounds nice but its the second part that I find rather annoying; basically the closer to catholocism you are the better off you are when you die(according to the catholic church). So, mainstream christians all pretty much get a free pass; jews and muslims are next in line for being monotheistic(see where this is going now?). Buddhism is generally mentioned as the next best thing for being a good philosophical backing(Ive noticed that the church likes to mention buddhism as a way of saying "well your going against christianity but dont be an atheist".

 

 

 

5. Thanks; I never noticed this before and its a brilliant point to bring up next time I get dragged into a religious discussion

[Jaffy1]

CHRISTIANS ARE THE MOST DEFENSIVE RELIGIOUS GROUP IN THE WORLD!

 

 

 

 

 

Ratchet. You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what you're talking about. It's the muslim fanatics that keep bothering us, normal people, with death, threats and death.

 

 

 

Perhaps you should think about what you're saying, or make sure at least you know what you're talking about.

[Rien]

CHRISTIANS ARE THE MOST DEFENSIVE RELIGIOUS GROUP IN THE WORLD!

It's the muslim fanatics that keep bothering us, normal people, with death, threats and death.

 

I'd just like to point out that stereotyping won't lend either of you much credibility.

 

 

 

Generally, problems arise when people holding conflicting, fanatical beliefs clash. In this case, anyone who clings too tightly to their set of beliefs--be that person theistic or atheistic--to the point of blindly and vehemently denying all others is at fault, and since radicals can exist in any denomination of faith, no one group should be discriminated against for it. 'Feel free to criticize individuals for their own behavoir or zealotry, but don't assume that everyone sharing that same person's view is at fault as well.

 

 

 

Remember to keep an open mind and to never stop questioning one's own beliefs; you'll find that they do sometimes change with thought and time.

[Zierro]

Remember to keep an open mind and to never stop questioning one's own beliefs; you'll find that they do sometimes change with thought and time.

 

 

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself. =D>

[Harakiri]

CHRISTIANS ARE THE MOST DEFENSIVE RELIGIOUS GROUP IN THE WORLD!

 

 

 

 

 

Ratchet. You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what you're talking about. It's the muslim fanatics that keep bothering us, normal people, with death, threats and death.

 

 

 

Perhaps you should think about what you're saying, or make sure at least you know what you're talking about.

 

 

 

I am speaking on a psychological level. Go up to a crazy Christian fanatic, and tell them "Hey, God isn't real". Next thing you know everyone within a mile radius follows you around asking for proof or wanting to throw rocks at you.

 

 

 

I know what I am talking about. The Muslim fanatics aren't the only problem. What's to say that their bible does not tell them this stuff? Thus they are just doing their duties in the bible. Just because God doesn't want us to sacrifice ourselves for him doesn't mean the Muslims don't have to. All those people in the middle east kill themselves to get closer to god...they are not defensive, they are following their beliefs. Christians do the same thing, they follow what they believe, and if someone tells them otherwise, [bleep] off.

 

 

 

I said I know a couple Muslims, and they give a damn less about making a joke about their religion, and they even think that Christians cross the line when they cannot accept the fact that they are not superior to anyone else. All religion does that, all religion makes people feel elevated over other groups. Don't tell me Christians don't feel elevated above everyone else, if they didn't feel that way I wouldn't be fighting all the time because people say I am stupid because I am an atheist.

 

 

 

Christians and Muslims are comparable. They follow their beliefs, and whoever gets in their way can get a stone thrown at them (or can be blown up in suicide bombs, but I actually feel that's somewhat understandable, they want to get closer to their god).

 

 

 

Do you know what Americans actually are? Let me give a quick history lesson.

 

 

 

The original American colonists who came in on the Mayflower came to America because the King didn't like their religious preferences. They were not straight Christians, they had crazy other religions. America was created by crazy religious fanatics to crazy for the crown to accept. THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT AROUND CRAZY RELIGION, AND LOOK WHERE IT GOT US...

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but maybe you should think before you write. All religions are likely to throw a stone at you if you don't believe, and Christians after throwing stones at you have to then sit you in a room and try to convince you otherwise, like they are recruiting an army or something.

 

 

 

I don't care what religion you are, I'm fine with it. It makes people feel good at night to know there is someone out there looking down at them, fine. But it is the people who shove it in your face, make you feel like some kind of idiot, who turned me off of religion. Hell, I used to go to church, but that's when I noticed how the Bible is a whole text about a bunch of people in improbable events, and it mostly made no sense. Noah was the only human during the flood, we have absolutely no proof of it.

 

 

 

There is no proof anywhere of any god, and I can't wait til we all die, and go to the weighing scale, Anubis weighs our hearts to a feather, and we are all eaten by the alligator/lion/every other animal ever, Set.

 

 

 

(Those who don't understand the above should read up on Ancient Egyptian mythology/religion)

[Lateralus]

The original American colonists who came in on the Mayflower came to America because the King didn't like their religious preferences. They were not straight Christians, they had crazy other religions. America was created by crazy religious fanatics to crazy for the crown to accept. THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT AROUND CRAZY RELIGION, AND LOOK WHERE IT GOT US...

 

 

 

If you're talking about the creation of The United States of America, then you really are doing a great disservice to Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. Your constitution as a founding document is unparalleled in ensuring freedom of, and therefore freedom from, religion. The wall of seperation has defintely crumbled over the years, but the founding of the country was anything but religious.

[Harakiri]

I'm not speaking governmentally, I am speaking the original ones from England in the 1600's. They were all the crazy religious folks that the crown didn't want to deal with.

 

 

 

I'm talking about the Pilgrims...that's what they were called.

 

 

 

Late 1700 government I know not much of, I know a lot about the Revolutionary War, but not much about the government.

[Hawks]

Mostly attempts by Britian to get the colonies in line and attempts by the colonies to self-govern. Then we get to 1776 and the US is born... Government is not that great at that point. After we get rid of the Brits, Rhode Island (I think Mass. too...) get into dumb arguments about the government because there was a large number of Loyalists that then stayed in the US... Finally I don't remember when the Constitution was signed into law.

 

 

 

Anyway my thoughts are that there has to be something, but it doesn't have to be the Christian ideal of God. We had a discussion about (sort of) this in Biology as we were studying evolution (which is where my small belief pretty much disappeared)... I maintain that something had to make the Earth (big bang theory fails) but evolution happened. I wouldn't count myself as atheist... More of an agnostic, I think there has to be something (be it the FSM or God or whatever) but I don't know what it is and don't really care.

[Harakiri]

I think everythings just always been here...Because to tell you the truth, how did any god create the Earth, because how was he created?

 

 

 

I usually don't see a point in a lot of conversations about where we come from, because the simple truth is we don't know. Religion is just a way of blocking up the fact we have no idea where we came from. We can say it is God, prove that, and get it over with. We are scared of things we don't know, so I personally think religion was created so there was is not as much fear.

[mmmcannibalism]

I'm not speaking governmentally, I am speaking the original ones from England in the 1600's. They were all the crazy religious folks that the crown didn't want to deal with.

 

 

 

I'm talking about the Pilgrims...that's what they were called.

 

 

 

Late 1700 government I know not much of, I know a lot about the Revolutionary War, but not much about the government.

 

 

 

They were hardly crazy, they were breaking away from the anglican church because they felt it was corrupt. While some of the groups such as puritans were very religious, its not as if they were the crazy folk that got run out of england; they left because they thought the english church was too crazy.

 

 

 

(big bang theory fails)

 

 

 

Whats wrong with the big bang theory?

[Hawks]

Big bang theory in itself doesn't fail, it's the 'life originated from primordial soup' argument, sorry I should have clarified that... And so because of that (I know origin of life has nothing to do with big bang theory) I sort of think that something had to create life, and may as well have created the Universe.

 

 

 

But now I think I'll take Douglas Adams' view. In the beginning the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. (kinda paraphrased it but you get the idea)

[mmmcannibalism]

Big bang theory in itself doesn't fail, it's the 'life originated from primordial soup' argument, sorry I should have clarified that... And so because of that (I know origin of life has nothing to do with big bang theory) I sort of think that something had to create life, and may as well have created the Universe.

 

 

 

But now I think I'll take Douglas Adams' view. In the beginning the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. (kinda paraphrased it but you get the idea)

 

 

 

Ah, thats a lot different. You should look into panspermia, thats an amusing theory that isnt the primordial soup.

[Fedorca99]

Big bang theory in itself doesn't fail, it's the 'life originated from primordial soup' argument, sorry I should have clarified that... And so because of that (I know origin of life has nothing to do with big bang theory) I sort of think that something had to create life, and may as well have created the Universe.

 

 

 

But now I think I'll take Douglas Adams' view. In the beginning the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. (kinda paraphrased it but you get the idea)

 

 

 

Ah, thats a lot different. You should look into panspermia, thats an amusing theory that isnt the primordial soup.

 

But views like that kinda of just skirt the issue. If life was "seeded" on our planet, where did the "seed" come from?

[Harakiri]

If god created our planet, where did God come from is my big question.

[Fedorca99]

If god created our planet, where did God come from is my big question.

 

He doesn't need a beginning or creator, because he is God, geddit? :?

[Harakiri]

um...no...

 

 

 

He had to come from somewhere. There is no possible way something has always just "Been there".

 

God, thinking about this too much is making my head wanna explode.

[Alg]

um...no...

 

 

 

He had to come from somewhere. There is no possible way something has always just "Been there".

 

God, thinking about this too much is making my head wanna explode.

 

If you're willing to think that not everything has to have a beginning and an end (o) it's a bit easier.

 

But not really.

 

 

 

Even a non-God related explanation of this will run into that problem, though.

[Harakiri]

I'm just to obsessed with the fact that there has to be something missing...there has to be something greater than god himself...Something had to create him...but then, how did that get there?

 

 

 

I read on some forum a while back that dinosaur bones were planted by Satan to confuse us and make us not believe the bible.

 

 

 

I also had a thought. What if Jesus is the antichrist? What if Satan is actually the true Christ? Just a thought...nothing too serious.

[Alg]

That's a similar idea to one I've heard. A truly good, sentient God would have made a paradise, a truly evil one would probably not have created any good. Either a God is truly neutral or it's a scientist, observing us in an experiment :lol: (another idea, picture scientists looking at mice in a maze, with aliens/God/s looking down on them)

 

 

 

Or something like that, with more serious thought and less jokes/simplicity.