Is God real post your thoughts!

[NoMoreDead]

i personally stopped reading the bible the first time when i read that god rested on the seventh day. i asked my reverend why god, who was all powerfull would need a day for rest? a hush fell over the church and i have never been back to that place. its funny how a simple question by an inquisitive 12 year old can cause confusion amongst people who have spent there entire lives devoted to its cause.

 

God rested on the 7th day in order to establish the sabbath, in which all people are supposed to rest and thank God for his creation (mass).

 

 

 

Is god really so full of himself that he has to take one day a week out just so you can "admire" his creation?

 

 

 

Oh, and how does going to church and constantly hearing about hellfire and brimstone constitute as "rest"?

 

He created the earth for us. What are we supposed to do? Take it for granted and not thank him at all?

 

 

 

You must be going to a weird church, because for the past 10 years I have been going to mass, I have never been lectured by a priest about hellfire and brimstone.

 

 

 

I gave up going to church after I was 12 years old and all I heard about was burning in hell and how I should thank god for everything because only through him will I be successful.

 

 

 

A couple of things to ponder: What if god didn't create Earth for us? Perhaps he created it for someone else, or another species, or just to mess around with his powers.

 

 

 

What does it matter if we take the Earth for granted or not? If we're good people, supposidly, we'll get into heaven. What's the point of taking any amount of time out of your day to say thanks to an invisible man in the sky who loves you anyway?

[Kenshinjapan]

 

 

 

I gave up going to church after I was 12 years old and all I heard about was burning in hell and how I should thank god for everything because only through him will I be successful.

 

 

 

A couple of things to ponder: What if god didn't create Earth for us? Perhaps he created it for someone else, or another species, or just to mess around with his powers.

 

 

 

What does it matter if we take the Earth for granted or not? If we're good people, supposidly, we'll get into heaven. What's the point of taking any amount of time out of your day to say thanks to an invisible man in the sky who loves you anyway?

 

 

 

Just to mess around with his powers? Didn't create it for us?

 

 

 

Are you really that ignorant, rude, and stupid to mean something like that? Wait till you grow up and can actually comprehend the entire thing before dropping out at the ripe ol' age of 12. Reading your post, it's obvious you've never picked up the bible and read any part for yourself. =D>

[Cup Lion]

I really want to know what church you went to. Really.

 

 

 

He created man in his own likeness and image. Its perfectly logical that he created another species to enslave the beings that he promised eternal life to. -.-

 

 

 

What did your parents teach you when you were younger? Say please and thank-you? Obviously not. :roll:

 

 

 

Of course, this whole post is irrelavent, since it all comes down to whether you believe in the bible or not.

[NoMoreDead]

 

 

 

I gave up going to church after I was 12 years old and all I heard about was burning in hell and how I should thank god for everything because only through him will I be successful.

 

 

 

A couple of things to ponder: What if god didn't create Earth for us? Perhaps he created it for someone else, or another species, or just to mess around with his powers.

 

 

 

What does it matter if we take the Earth for granted or not? If we're good people, supposidly, we'll get into heaven. What's the point of taking any amount of time out of your day to say thanks to an invisible man in the sky who loves you anyway?

 

 

 

Just to mess around with his powers? Didn't create it for us?

 

 

 

Are you really that ignorant, rude, and stupid to mean something like that? Wait till you grow up and can actually comprehend the entire thing before dropping out at the ripe ol' age of 12. Reading your post, it's obvious you've never picked up the bible and read any part for yourself. =D>

 

 

 

Actually, I'm just a few years past being 12, although you might call 12 my "age of reason". I have picked up a bible, I've read through 75% of it, and honestly, I end up laughing at most of it, and researching the parts I don't understand. I have a more thorough knowledge of the bible than most my age.

 

 

 

Are you really that rude and ignorant to call out someone you know nothing about? Do you have any knowledge of me? Absolutely not. I find it funny that you did nothing to disprove my thoughts on the issue, and simply resorted to name calling.

[Kenshinjapan]

 

 

 

I gave up going to church after I was 12 years old and all I heard about was burning in hell and how I should thank god for everything because only through him will I be successful.

 

 

 

A couple of things to ponder: What if god didn't create Earth for us? Perhaps he created it for someone else, or another species, or just to mess around with his powers.

 

 

 

What does it matter if we take the Earth for granted or not? If we're good people, supposidly, we'll get into heaven. What's the point of taking any amount of time out of your day to say thanks to an invisible man in the sky who loves you anyway?

 

 

 

Just to mess around with his powers? Didn't create it for us?

 

 

 

Are you really that ignorant, rude, and stupid to mean something like that? Wait till you grow up and can actually comprehend the entire thing before dropping out at the ripe ol' age of 12. Reading your post, it's obvious you've never picked up the bible and read any part for yourself. =D>

 

 

 

Actually, I'm just a few years past being 12, although you might call 12 my "age of reason". I have picked up a bible, I've read through 75% of it, and honestly, I end up laughing at most of it, and researching the parts I don't understand. I have a more thorough knowledge of the bible than most my age.

 

 

 

Are you really that rude and ignorant to call out someone you know nothing about? Do you have any knowledge of me? Absolutely not. I find it funny that you did nothing to disprove my thoughts on the issue, and simply resorted to name calling.

 

 

 

Well considering that you posted ignorant comments about the bible that anyone who had actually read the bible would have know. So yes, I would say that I know you pretty well now.

 

 

 

By the way, knowing more about the bible than 75% of 14 year old isn't really an accomplishment considering that half of them have never attended more than 3 services a year and the others go just because their parents make them.

[Cup Lion]

Actually, I'm just a few years past being 12, although you might call 12 my "age of reason". I have picked up a bible, I've read through 75% of it, and honestly, I end up laughing at most of it, and researching the parts I don't understand. I have a more thorough knowledge of the bible than most my age.

 

You know that reading the bible through won't do you any good. I think only 14 of the books of the bible actually tell a story. The others explain teachings and laws made by God. So, reading 75% of it probably didn't do anything to help clarify your belief in God.

 

 

 

I ask you this: What parts of the bible made you laugh?

[lwilson100]

yes god is real he's MORGAN FREEEMAN

[Woodcut Lvr]

No. A figure of god is not in my beliefs.

[user1991]

I really want to know what church you went to. Really.

 

 

 

He created man in his own likeness and image. Its perfectly logical that he created another species to enslave the beings that he promised eternal life to. -.-

 

 

 

What did your parents teach you when you were younger? Say please and thank-you? Obviously not. :roll:

 

 

 

Of course, this whole post is irrelavent, since it all comes down to whether you believe in the bible or not.

 

 

 

A Christian talking about reason, please, do not even start.

 

 

 

If faith is irrational, then it is rational to dismiss "faith-based claims" out of hand.

 

If faith is rational, then "faith-based claims" must be testable and/or sound -- but they are neither.

 

If faith is a-rational, then "faith-based claims" are inexplicable and thus cannot explain anything.

 

 

 

Either you should base all your beliefs on reason, or base none of them on it. And considering you don't press the "G" key when you're trying to type a "Z", ill assume you use reason.

 

 

 

Your religion is stupid, please stop, you're killing the species.

[Cup Lion]

We have opinions and are allowed to share them. Do not tell me what to do and not do.

[Woodcut Lvr]

I really want to know what church you went to. Really.

 

 

 

He created man in his own likeness and image. Its perfectly logical that he created another species to enslave the beings that he promised eternal life to. -.-

 

 

 

What did your parents teach you when you were younger? Say please and thank-you? Obviously not. :roll:

 

 

 

Of course, this whole post is irrelavent, since it all comes down to whether you believe in the bible or not.

 

 

 

A Christian talking about reason, please, do not even start.

 

 

 

If faith is irrational, then it is rational to dismiss "faith-based claims" out of hand.

 

If faith is rational, then "faith-based claims" must be testable and/or sound -- but they are neither.

 

If faith is a-rational, then "faith-based claims" are inexplicable and thus cannot explain anything.

 

 

 

Either you should base all your beliefs on reason, or base none of them on it. And considering you don't press the "G" key when you're trying to type a "Z", ill assume you use reason.

 

 

 

Your religion is stupid, please stop, you're killing the species.

 

 

 

You're being stupid. Not Cup. Let him believe what he wants. Is it wrong that we all believe something different?

 

 

 

---

 

 

 

To OP, I think you should probably change the title. I dunno, it leaves for disscussion for mostly Christian (Or catholic or protestant and all the other branches), Judaism and Islam religions. You should have it "Do you believe in a god?" because it allows for other religions to be included.

[Lenticular_J]

You do realise with that kind of rationalisation you can justify washing god's hands of absolutely anything, right?

 

[garden tool]-[garden tool]-hold on. You're criticizing (nearly) the exact same rationalization that has been used numerous times in this thread to "prove" God doesn't exist?

 

 

 

A Christian talking about reason, please, do not even start.

 

 

 

And atheist committing a complete hypocrisy? Madness!

 

 

 

Your religion is stupid, please stop, you're killing the species.

 

 

 

You have no debating value in your post whatsoever. You don't know [cabbage] about Christianity; you're categorizing over two dozen very varied sects into one base that did not even comprise early Christianity. Since I can't try to insult atheism, as you'll counter it with "You're a stupid hypocrite!", I'll just leave it at this.

[flipflop121]

i do enjoy how all the decent posts made by myself which i have backed up with exerts from the bible have been left alone so we can have an illogical bantering of each other with very few facts actually used.

 

 

 

the fact remains, if you ever read the old testament you actually learn how ruthless and hostile god really is. that is why i seriously doubt most people here have actualy read the bible. (The whole bible, not just the little book you got from your parents that only has the story of moses and daniel etc etc in it)

 

 

 

if you actually read the old testament it really isnt a nice time to live in, so i have no idea how people think that god is a nice man tbh.

[Kenshinjapan]

i do enjoy how all the decent posts made by myself which i have backed up with exerts from the bible have been left alone so we can have an illogical bantering of each other with very few facts actually used.

 

 

 

the fact remains, if you ever read the old testament you actually learn how ruthless and hostile god really is. that is why i seriously doubt most people here have actualy read the bible. (The whole bible, not just the little book you got from your parents that only has the story of moses and daniel etc etc in it)

 

 

 

if you actually read the old testament it really isnt a nice time to live in, so i have no idea how people think that god is a nice man tbh.

 

 

 

Here's the thing, you can't debate with an atheist using scripture #-o . That's the reason most debates fail. The other side won't take into account that information they're excluding could actually clear things up.

 

 

 

Internet debates= :wall:

[Lenticular_J]

Here's the thing, you can't debate with an atheist using scripture #-o . That's the reason most debates fail. The other side won't take into account that information they're excluding could actually clear things up.

 

Scripture or faith, actually. Both are concepts they use as their "proof".

 

 

 

Although flipflop, Holy Bible's different from the Old Testament. Old Testament is actually the Torah nowadays.

[warri0r45]

You do realise with that kind of rationalisation you can justify washing god's hands of absolutely anything, right?

 

[garden tool]-[garden tool]-hold on. You're criticizing (nearly) the exact same rationalization that has been used numerous times in this thread to "prove" God doesn't exist?

 

 

 

"the exact same rationalization that has been used numerous times in this thread to "prove" God doesn't exist?"

 

 

 

What rationalisation would that be? I've never said that nasty things prove god doesnt exist, either. I just tend to think most people who claim to know the nature of god are wrong because all loving beings don't create malaria. Maybe we're god's little cosmic experiment? Maybe there is no god yet only the devil? Not that I buy any of it but still, I have a mind to wonder about these questions so I do.

 

 

 

i do enjoy how all the decent posts made by myself which i have backed up with exerts from the bible have been left alone so we can have an illogical bantering of each other with very few facts actually used.

 

 

 

the fact remains, if you ever read the old testament you actually learn how ruthless and hostile god really is. that is why i seriously doubt most people here have actualy read the bible. (The whole bible, not just the little book you got from your parents that only has the story of moses and daniel etc etc in it)

 

 

 

if you actually read the old testament it really isnt a nice time to live in, so i have no idea how people think that god is a nice man tbh.

 

 

 

Here's the thing, you can't debate with an atheist using scripture #-o . That's the reason most debates fail. The other side won't take into account that information they're excluding could actually clear things up.

 

 

 

Internet debates= :wall:

 

 

 

I always here this kind of stuff from believers. You only have yourserlf to blame for the failure of debates if you just complain without offering any actual constructive criticism. I should be the one banging my head against the wall considering how many times I hear "out of context" with absolutely no explanation as to how or why.

[Kenshinjapan]

Warrior, here's the thing. If a person doesn't know of the bible, then it would take several paragraphs to explain as to why a statement is out of topic. That's where the bible gets annoying, you have to know it very well, otherwise, you're not going to get it.

[Lenticular_J]

At least we aren't debating the Mormon Bible. (Book of the Church of Latter Day Saints, whatever -_-) That is some of the most confusing stuff I've ever read.

 

 

 

What rationalisation would that be?

 

 

 

Using the fact that there's bad in the world in an attempt to destroy faith, then when a theist uses the fact that a lot worse could have happened, calling it a worthless argument. Now, that wasn't directed at you. Your arguments are quite mild-tempered, and I don't think you've ever even used that in them - something quite rare in this thread...

[warri0r45]

Warrior, here's the thing. If a person doesn't know of the bible, then it would take several paragraphs to explain as to why a statement is out of topic. That's where the bible gets annoying, you have to know it very well, otherwise, you're not going to get it.

 

 

 

Several paragraphs? It's really that in depth to you? I could easily explain the logic behind a scientific concept that it's taken me 2 years of university education to learn in a few lines of text. I'd at least try instead of effectively saying "you're wrong" with no explanation at all. That's what annoys me. If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

 

 

 

Another reason why I don't buy your objection is that I've had some (note: few) believers willing to give me a simple run down of the logic behind some Bible passage. I don't buy that it's too complex so you can't explain it. Give us something simple and preface it with "this isn't the whole story" if you want. If we don't get it, then at least we'll have something to look into to see if you're right.

 

 

 

Hell, just say "google X". I don't care. I want to understand you, and I can only do that if you give me some information.

 

 

 

What rationalisation would that be?

 

 

 

Using the fact that there's bad in the world in an attempt to destroy faith, then when a theist uses the fact that a lot worse could have happened, calling it a worthless argument.

 

 

 

It wasn't me who called it a worthless argument. Cup_lion called it faulty logic. It's really up to the people reading whether they agree with me or not (stating the obvious). All I said was that reverting to "things could have been worse if it weren't for god" rationalises absolutely anything, no matter how hideous an act.

 

 

 

Clearly, using that as a justification for any action of an "all loving" god doesn't sit well with people. The point that I've been making is simply this: I don't think the universe is indicative of an all loving god. Perhaps one who just doesn't care or is a closet sadist, but we can't know for sure.

 

 

 

To be honest I still don't really understand what your gripe is.

[Kenshinjapan]

Warrior, here's the thing. If a person doesn't know of the bible, then it would take several paragraphs to explain as to why a statement is out of topic. That's where the bible gets annoying, you have to know it very well, otherwise, you're not going to get it.

 

 

 

Several paragraphs? It's really that in depth to you? I could easily explain the logic behind a scientific concept that it's taken me 2 years of university education to learn in a few lines of text. I'd at least try instead of effectively saying "you're wrong" with no explanation at all. That's what annoys me. If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

 

 

 

Another reason why I don't buy your objection is that I've had some (note: few) believers willing to give me a simple run down of the logic behind some Bible passage. I don't buy that it's too complex so you can't explain it. Give us something simple and preface it with "this isn't the whole story" if you want. If we don't get it, then at least we'll have something to look into to see if you're right.

 

 

 

Hell, just say "google X". I don't care. I want to understand you, and I can only do that if you give me some information.

 

 

 

A lot of atheists won't even take you seriously if you choose to use your scripture as a quote. It's a lose-lose. It's also a lot harder to quote something from the Bible. Once you read the entire thing a time or two, you just sort of get the general idea (like any other book). With science it's a lot easier to pull up a piece of information.

 

 

 

That's just how I view it, though. I few people (with 30 years more experience on me :oops: ) can quote a scripture exactly off of the top of their head.

[NoMoreDead]

i do enjoy how all the decent posts made by myself which i have backed up with exerts from the bible have been left alone so we can have an illogical bantering of each other with very few facts actually used.

 

 

 

the fact remains, if you ever read the old testament you actually learn how ruthless and hostile god really is. that is why i seriously doubt most people here have actualy read the bible. (The whole bible, not just the little book you got from your parents that only has the story of moses and daniel etc etc in it)

 

 

 

if you actually read the old testament it really isnt a nice time to live in, so i have no idea how people think that god is a nice man tbh.

 

 

 

Well good luck telling that to a large percentage of Christians who now accept the all-loving and kind god as their god. If you want to know why, here is the plain and simple answer:

 

 

 

WARINING: IF YOU ARE A BELIEVER, YOU MAY TAKE OFFENSE. THIS IS ALL MY OPINION. I AM TRULY SORRY TO ANYONE WHO TAKES THIS AS ANYTHING BUT MY POINT OF VIEW, AS THERE IS NO WAY OF PROOVING WHAT INTENTIONS PEOPLE HAD 2000 YEARS AGO.

 

 

 

In the times of old and new testaments, the idea of god was used to keep people in line. It scared people into thinking that if they acted in a socially unacceptable manor, they would be punished forever. This is where the need for a vengeful god comes in.

 

 

 

Today, governments set laws and punishments for us. This is why god no longer needs to appear vengeful, but loving. Knowing god loves you instills a feeling of connection between you and god, and instant relationship. It's a great concept. Someone who is all know and all powerful loves you. Quite the fuzzy feeling indeed.

 

 

 

On the current topic:

 

I find that everytime I get involved in a debate with a believer of any religion, they often tell me that I wouldn't understand scriptures/passages/stories because I've never read the bible/other holy text. I find this to be a somewhat rude assumption. In reality, I've read the bible. I've been to church hundreds of times. I've had faith in a god before. I understand Christianity. I would sincerely like a well laid out argument which leaves me no doubt as to whether or not there is a god, without being told I wouldn't understand it. However, I think no such argument exists. If there is such an argument which cannot be discredited or disproven ,(and sadly, 60+ pages into this discussion there isn't) I would like to see it

[Kenshinjapan]

 

 

 

On the current topic:

 

I find that everytime I get involved in a debate with a believer of any religion, they often tell me that I wouldn't understand scriptures/passages/stories because I've never read the bible/other holy text. I find this to be a somewhat rude assumption. In reality, I've read the bible. I've been to church over hundreds of times. I've had faith in a god before. I understand Christianity. I would sincerely like a well laid out argument which leaves me no doubt as to whether or not there is a god, without being told I wouldn't understand it. However, I think no such argument exists. If there is such an argument which cannot be discredited or disproven ,(and sadly, 60+ pages into this discussion there isn't) I would like to see it

 

 

 

That is true, a lot of people make that assumption. But you can't really be angry at them. In reality, no more than 20% have actually read any text at all and of those 20%, half of them still don't know what they're talking about.

[Lateralus]

It scared people into thinking that if they acted in a socially unacceptable manor, they would be punished forever.

 

 

 

Ha, that gave me a fantastic mental image of some Wildean house of debauchery. I'm not being a spelling Nazi, I just thought this was funny.

[Cup Lion]

i do enjoy how all the decent posts made by myself which i have backed up with exerts from the bible have been left alone so we can have an illogical bantering of each other with very few facts actually used.

 

 

 

the fact remains, if you ever read the old testament you actually learn how ruthless and hostile god really is. that is why i seriously doubt most people here have actualy read the bible. (The whole bible, not just the little book you got from your parents that only has the story of moses and daniel etc etc in it)

 

 

 

if you actually read the old testament it really isnt a nice time to live in, so i have no idea how people think that god is a nice man tbh.

 

God was "ruthless and hostile" in those times because his chosen people kept falling into polygamy, idolatry, and many other sins, no matter how many prophets he sent them. Thus, since the ten commandments didn't really get through the people's skulls, there is a whole book of every specific law that he made for the people (Book of Leviticus). Its the same concept as parents raising their kids. If the kids continually make bad decisions, you think the parents will pat them on the head and nicely tell them to choose better next time? Of course not. They have to lay down the authority. :D

[flipflop121]

Also please dont get me wrong with my posting, i support people and there beliefs, i think choice is a veyr good option. but i just hate people who use religion as a means of getting / doing something or as scientific evidence. it [cabbage]s me off no end.

 

 

 

Religion, whether you like it or not has killed more people in this world then properly anything else that has ever existed. from the ancient myans with human sacrifice, the crusades, the apocalypse in WW2 etc etc.

 

 

 

nothing good in my mind has come from religion. all it has bought is pain and suffering for many a millenia. as peviously stated by me

 

 

 

perhaps the Devils greatest sin was creating religion.