Is God real post your thoughts!

[Igor]

its hard to believe in God when no one has seen a saint, angel, (whatever) in 1000+ years.

[Agunimon979]

I don't think gods real because i was recently a christian, and my life was pretty bad, not because i was a christian, but because god is supposed to help you or something.

 

 

 

Anyways, I quit christianity and now my lifes slowly recovering. I'm getting alot more friends, more exercise and a lot more happier.

 

 

 

Now you probably can't link this all with christianity but if god was real my life would've been god when i was christian.

[Dalcyte]

its hard to believe in God when no one has seen a saint, angel, (whatever) in 1000+ years.

 

 

 

uh...?

 

Yeah, so...there's that whole thing with Joan of Arc and Calvin and basically the entirety of Mormonism...

 

You may not believe they've seen an angel, but people HAVE claimed to see it. What makes angel sightings pre-1000 AD more real than post 1000 AD?

 

 

 

Well, i'm personally an Athiest. I don't know if God is real or not though, so my beliefs are a summation of Jon Krakauer and Sigmund Freud.

 

 

 

 

I don't know what God is, or what God had in mind when the universe was set in motion. In fact, I don't know if God exists...There are some ten thousand extant religious sects--each with its own cosmology, each with its own answer for the meaning of life and death. Most assert that the other 9,999 not only have it completely wrong but are are the instruments of evil, besides. None of these ten thousand has yet persuaded me to make the requisite leap of faith. In the absence of conviction, I've come to terms with the fact that uncertainty is an unescapable corollary of life. An abundance of mystery is simply part of the bargain--which doesn't strike mas something to lament. Accepting the essential inscrutability of existence, in any case, is surely preferable to its opposite: capitulating to the tyranny of intransigent belief.

 

 

 

And if I remain in the dark about our purpose here, and the meaning of eternity, I have neverthless arrived at an understanding of a few more modest truths: Most of us fear death. Most of us yearn to comprehend how we got here, and why--which is to say, most of us ache to know the love of our creator. And we will no doubt feel that ache, most of us, for as long as we happen to be alive.

 

 

 

That puts my philosophy on religion into words better than i've ever been able to put it. God is a complicated matter. We all yearn and crave to seek the answers to the ultimate questions in life: Who am I? How did I get here? What is my purpose? At moments, at the current state of thinking for me, I believe that religion provides an answer to that. It provides though, almost an easy way out. These questions are so complex, and thus the answers too will be quite complex, more comprehensive than most humans and most generations can take. We want answers though, and we want them now. Religion gives the masses that; religion assures a definite, simple answer to those great burdening questions. And that's fine, if you want it. But I believe that it's a little more comlicated than that. There is no way whatsoever to prove me or an theistically prone person right or wrong. But that's my opinion.

 

 

 

Freud comes in here in saying that religion, while giving us answers to these fundamental questions, can be quite delusional. I'm fine with religion, and i recognize that it shaped most of western culture. But I believe it should be a private matter. When someone starts forcing, imposing, subjecting the will and might of their God onto me, I have a problem. While I respect religion, I do not adhere to any. I am not agnostic, but not quite athiest either. It's complicated. But people are entitled to their own answers to those fundamental questions, they have their own entitlement to seek and answer the questions for themselves. I understand if part of the religion means attempting to gain converts, but keep it out of how i live. To give an example, gay marraige. The movement against it has no support other than "God didn't intend it". But that goes against the constitution, and it subjects me (though I am not gay) to the lifestyle of one who is religious, whereas I am not religious. Also, when you start denying scientific facts. Like, i'm all cool with the Bible, but when people believe its 100% true? I mean, if that floats your boat and that's what you believe, fine...but don't try to tell me dinosaurs are still alive and U/Pb dating is a conspiracy by every scientist in the world.

 

 

 

There. My couple hundred cents lol.

 

 

 

And to respond to a few things, God doesn't imply Christianity. It implies Judaism, Hinduism, Pagaenism and every other religion that has a God(s).

[Lenticular_J]

Well, if God is being referred to as a single entity (and most likely capitalized), then it implies any monotheistic religion - primarily Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

[Rebdragon]

I don't think gods real because i was recently a christian, and my life was pretty bad, not because i was a christian, but because god is supposed to help you or something.

 

 

 

Anyways, I quit christianity and now my lifes slowly recovering. I'm getting alot more friends, more exercise and a lot more happier.

 

 

 

Now you probably can't link this all with christianity but if god was real my life would've been god when i was christian.

 

Fairweather theist.

[Perakp]

I do not need God.

 

I'm happy with my life as it is, even without God. I am not afraid of dieing. I do not want to live the eternity in heaven, I'd much rather just cease from being.

 

The idea of God is impossible, because there are too many loopholes, that are filled with "Just believe and pray."

 

If all people are judged for what they did during their lifetime, it is not fair for those who never got told of the commandments, or who didn't even hear of the bible. I will not worship someone that doesn't play fair.

 

If everything goes to God's plan anyways, why do we have this illusion of free will?

[lockopener]

my tip to you read the origin of species and determin for your self

[jackattack]

I don't think gods real because i was recently a christian, and my life was pretty bad, not because i was a christian, but because god is supposed to help you or something.

 

 

 

Anyways, I quit christianity and now my lifes slowly recovering. I'm getting alot more friends, more exercise and a lot more happier.

 

 

 

Now you probably can't link this all with christianity but if god was real my life would've been god when i was christian.

 

Fairweather theist.

 

 

 

footsteps poem? ;)

[Dalcyte]

my tip to you read the origin of species and determin for your self

 

 

 

Gah! Stop associating God with Chrisianity!!!!!

 

God does not imply it! That's really intolerant of all other religions. You could be Jewish and believe in evolution (most Jews do), you could be Agnostic and believe in evolution, and you could be Christian and believe in evolution!

 

 

 

There can be a God and there can be evolution. One does not not allow the other.

[Rebdragon]

Kinda see what you're saying mate^. I wasn't thinking of that though, and the connection seems slightly vague.

 

There can be a God and there can be evolution. One does not not allow the other.

 

:lol:

[NoMoreDead]

Kinda see what you're saying mate^. I wasn't thinking of that though, and the connection seems slightly vague.

 

There can be a God and there can be evolution. One does not not allow the other.

 

:lol:

 

 

 

I also lol'ed at this one.

 

 

 

Anyway, Dalcyte makes a good point. God is not simply tied into Christianity. However, considering the fact that the Christian religion is the most promonent in the world, we tend to argue the our points against the christian god. If you do, however, bring some thoughts regaurding the muslim/jewish/your religion here, we will argue those as well.

[Lenticular_J]

Here's a list of the most prominent religions in the world, an approximate believers. Yes, Christianity is the most prominent. Of this list, between a third and a half are monotheistic. Oh and dalcyte, you got dys-dissed.

 

 

 

Hoho, I made a funny. Anyways, onto the list:

 

 

 

[hide=]Christianity: 2.1 billion

 

Islam: 1.5 billion

 

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

 

Hinduism: 900 million

 

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

 

Buddhism: 376 million

 

primal-indigenous: 300 million

 

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

 

Sikhism: 23 million

 

Juche: 19 million

 

Spiritism: 15 million

 

Judaism: 14 million

 

Baha'i: 7 million

 

Jainism: 4.2 million

 

Shinto: 4 million

 

Cao Dai: 4 million

 

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

 

Tenrikyo: 2 million

 

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

 

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

 

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

 

Scientology: 500 thousand[/hide]

[x1992x]

Here's a list of the most prominent religions in the world, an approximate believers. Yes, Christianity is the most prominent. Of this list, between a third and a half are monotheistic. Oh and dalcyte, you got dys-dissed.

 

 

 

Hoho, I made a funny. Anyways, onto the list:

 

 

 

[hide=]Christianity: 2.1 billion

 

Islam: 1.5 billion

 

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

 

Hinduism: 900 million

 

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

 

Buddhism: 376 million

 

primal-indigenous: 300 million

 

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

 

Sikhism: 23 million

 

Juche: 19 million

 

Spiritism: 15 million

 

Judaism: 14 million

 

Baha'i: 7 million

 

Jainism: 4.2 million

 

Shinto: 4 million

 

Cao Dai: 4 million

 

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

 

Tenrikyo: 2 million

 

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

 

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

 

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

 

Scientology: 500 thousand[/hide]

 

 

 

yeah rastafarianism is over scientology \ that religion truly is high :lol:

[Agunimon979]

and you could be Christian and believe in evolution!

 

 

 

There can be a God and there can be evolution. One does not not allow the other.

 

 

 

NO because their bible says that god created the universe, therefore he is god.

[Lenticular_J]

Errr. What? Did you read his post...? I don't even get what you posted, actually. Mind clarifying a bit?

[Zierro]

Whoa only 14 million Jews? I thought that number would be much higher.

[Agunimon979]

Errr. What? Did you read his post...? I don't even get what you posted, actually. Mind clarifying a bit?

 

 

 

Scientology: Humans and other animals evolved from fish, birds, etc.

 

 

 

Religion: God created all of the creatures as they are.

[Lenticular_J]

Number one: That's Darwin's Theory of Evolution. Scientology is a crazy cult or people who think aliens live inside our bodies, making us commit sins.

 

 

 

Number two: That's Christianity and, I think, Judaism. I don't know if it's true for Islam. But anyways, that would only apply to monotheistic religions, which are the vast minority.

[Agunimon979]

Whatever, I'm not a genius, but I do know that christians highly disaprove of evolution.

[Lenticular_J]

The minority don't. Even the many members Vatican believe it to be a logical theory.

[JeremyM]

im catholic and believe in god. my friend and his friend both dont believe in god or and sort of heaven and are trying to prove to me that god doesnt exist. they say "believing in god is just wasting your life, man". no matter what i say they say the same thing and i was wondering if anyone had any ideas on what i could say to "out smart" them on the subject i guess.

[Lenticular_J]

Kicking them in the clavicle might help, but it won't solve them thinking that. We had that part of the argument on page 54 or so I believe, or at least around there. You might want to check back there.

[warren211]

Simply put, Jeremy, there are very few things in this world you can show or tell your friends to make them change their minds. most often whatever you show them will soon evolve into a heated arguement over morals and hurt feelings. I've learned my lesson the hard way not to preach to your friends.

 

 

 

However, I think the best step to start with is to ask them what they would accept as proof that God exists. They might say "an undeniable miracle". In which case, you might want to show them some eucharistic miracles, particularly the miracle at Lanciano, which even professionals have acknowledged to be hard to dispute.

 

 

 

If they deny every miracle you show them then pretty much nothing will get them to change their minds. after all, the point of miracles is to show God's existence on earth.

[warri0r45]

Simply put, Jeremy, there are very few things in this world you can show or tell your friends to make them change their minds. most often whatever you show them will soon evolve into a heated arguement over morals and hurt feelings. I've learned my lesson the hard way not to preach to your friends.

 

 

 

However, I think the best step to start with is to ask them what they would accept as proof that God exists. They might say "an undeniable miracle". In which case, you might want to show them some eucharistic miracles, particularly the miracle at Lanciano, which even professionals have acknowledged to be hard to dispute.

 

 

 

If they deny every miracle you show them then pretty much nothing will get them to change their minds. after all, the point of miracles is to show God's existence on earth.

 

 

 

Oh please. If not studied rigorously, miracles can be interpreted with any preconceived perceptions of reality. Some people are more critical than simply converting on the spot because they hear stories and I suspect you or any other Catholic would be just as critical as I am of any alternative faith that puts the anomalous, unexplained or unknown in their own worldview.

 

 

 

But to be fair, I've heard of the Lanciano miracle and it was in fact studied by a man called Odoardo Linoli. The paper is in Italian so unfortunately I haven't been able to read it and see the results for myself. However, it only takes a bit of critical thinking to dispute the claim every Catholic is more than willing to make.

 

 

 

Firstly, the study on this miracle hasn't been repeated at all. If you want any scientific credibility, your results simply must be repeated. It's really a non-negotiable because ideas don't get up in science except through years-long disputes over whether the results of a particular study have been verified enough and potential faults ironed out. I would expect the same rigor times ten over to confirm a miracle, of all things. If youre in the business of breaking well defined scientific laws which have been confirmed over centuries of repeated study, then please, come to me with more than one solitary piece of work.

 

 

 

You wouldnt trust your life on one single medical trial performed by a few men, so why do you trust your faith on the same degree of rigor? But, of course, thats faith for you. Fair enough, Im not going to dig the boot into your beliefs any more than I perhaps already have. In all honesty I respect your right to have them.

 

 

 

Back to it

 

 

 

A single study done in the 1970s under the auspices of an Archbishop and by the authorization of Rome (which means the Vatican, I suppose) is hardly equivalent to undisputable proof. Reference used by wiki from the Eucharist Miracle page. There are all sorts of potential issues there despite the study not having been repeated, including conflicts of interest, the absence of modern studies using modern techniques to support this one and of course just plain old error in analysis of the sample.

 

 

 

At this point in time, you may bring up the supposed repeat of Linoli's study by the World Health Organization. Somehow, I doubt that claim. Why? A quick search of the WHO site (here) returns zero results for the words Lanciano and Linoli. There is a Bertelli, but its an L. Bertelli, and it certainly has nothing to do with a Eucharist Miracle. Also, there is one result returned for Eucharist, but it certainly has nothing to do with a reported or studied miracle.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, if true, you could interpret the results of Linolis study as evidence of the Christian god and proof of your religion, which youre entitled to do if youre so inclined, or you could interpret it in the light that our knowledge of the degradation of proteins, etc is partially wrong and needs a rethink. I think Ill choose option c for now, that being show me more repeated evidence before you expect me to believe that scientific laws confirmed over centuries have been proven wrong.

 

 

 

All of this flies in the face of the portrayal of the issue by your very Catholic source. No surprises there.

 

 

 

Finally, your argument that pretty much nothing will change the mind of someone like myself is entirely wrong. The fact of the matter is this: that which would change my mind is severely lacking. There's a huge difference between those two positions.

[JeremyM]

Simply put, Jeremy, there are very few things in this world you can show or tell your friends to make them change their minds. most often whatever you show them will soon evolve into a heated arguement over morals and hurt feelings. I've learned my lesson the hard way not to preach to your friends.

 

 

 

However, I think the best step to start with is to ask them what they would accept as proof that God exists. They might say "an undeniable miracle". In which case, you might want to show them some eucharistic miracles, particularly the miracle at Lanciano, which even professionals have acknowledged to be hard to dispute.

 

 

 

If they deny every miracle you show them then pretty much nothing will get them to change their minds. after all, the point of miracles is to show God's existence on earth.

 

 

 

thanks for the help warren. and thats the first time i've heard of that, thanks for the link