Grand Exchange Conspiracy Theory

[Duke_Freedom]

One way or the other, they are eventually going to have to stop avoiding this problem and deal with it.

 

 

 

Except that there is no problem and thus nothing to "eventually" deal with. Go play the game your own way and you won't be effected it, according to all your own statements that you seem to spam around about everywhere to get more people to join you in your anti-rares hate-campaign. :roll:

 

 

 

Discontinued items are one fairly significant motivation for real world trading and gold buying.

 

 

 

:lol:... Shows how much you know. They are not.

[qeltar]

 

Except that there is no problem and thus nothing to "eventually" deal with.

 

 

Well, I think there is. And so do many other people.

 

 

Go play the game your own way and you won't be effected it, according to all your own statements that you seem to spam around about everywhere to get more people to join you in your anti-rares hate-campaign. :roll:

 

 

I'll play however I want within the rules of the game, and express whatever opinions I want within the rules of this board.

 

 

 

I certainly don't need any advice on gameplay from admitted cheaters, thank you very much. You're practically a walking poster boy for the corruption caused by excessive money orientation in RuneScape, so it's hardly surprising that you don't think there is a problem associated with rares. :roll:

 

 

 

And you might want to look up the meaning of the word "spam", since you clearly don't comprehend it.

[Duke_Freedom]

Except that there is no problem and thus nothing to "eventually" deal with.

 

Well, I think there is. And so do many other people.

 

 

 

Many people don't know what they are talking about. I'm sure you can't even explain what the problem is. You just dislike a part of the game that doesn't effect you at all. Big deal, get over it and stop whining.

 

 

 

I certainly don't need any advice on gameplay from admitted cheaters, thank you very much.

 

 

 

Oh you couldn't come with anything better than that again... :roll:

[epeeflecher]

In general, people don't sell rare or expensive items in the Grand Exchange.

 

 

 

Use the forums or W2 if you want to buy something expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

Accidently open'd another tap for "Truthscape", strangeness.

 

 

 

Rare's arent really a modivation for..RWT. There to show your wealth. Rares don't need to be gone from the game, i play RS to get rares. I'm pretty sure other people play for that reason too.

 

 

 

Take away rares wont do anything to RWT but you are right about the fact that people probaly buy Gp for Rares, not exactly the same thing with the duel arena since i'm pretty sure they've caught stakers selling there Gp that's why they did it or is it? But i'm not even going to talk about the duel arena it didnt affect me i'm not going to start arguements.

[qeltar]

 

Many people don't know what they are talking about.

 

 

True, and thank you for providing yet another example.

 

 

I'm sure you can't even explain what the problem is.

 

 

I can, and I have, many times. And I will continue to do so in the future.

 

 

You just dislike a part of the game that doesn't effect you at all.

 

 

It affects everyone, whether they own or want rares or not.

 

 

Oh you couldn't come with anything better than that again... :roll:

 

 

 

Actually, that's the first time I believe I've ever raised the matter of you being a cheat. And I did so because it's directly relevant to the matter at hand.

[FooK-A-Ji]

How many p hats have you and ur clan high alched Qeltar?

[Sanctus_Petrus]

Why would they need to make this huge and elaborate update (GE) to take away discontinued items from RS when all they need to do is go every account who owns one and take it from them.

 

 

 

They have the passwords. All they need worry about is not to do it all at once or it will raise suspicion.

 

 

 

And the player will only asume that they got hacked. They would have no prove that Jagex did it.

[Solidus_77]

 

Discontinued items are one fairly significant motivation for real world trading and gold buying.

 

 

 

That's a baseless assumption. Show some proof

 

 

 

I also believe that updates such as the killing off of staking were about more than RWT, since anyone can see that they didn't need to drop the limit to 3k just for that reason.

 

 

 

That's a conclusion based off of your baseless assumption. Thus, equally as baseless.

 

 

 

True, and thank you for providing yet another example.

 

 

 

Show some maturity, will you? instead of swinging these childish insults. He is correct, the majority of the people in this game are a completely ignorant to economics and make false interpretations based on their lack of knowledge. The "majority is correct" logic on your part doesn't strengthen your point. It only shows just how many idiots there are in this game (yourself not necessarily included)

[epeeflecher]

Why would they need to make this huge and elaborate update (GE) to take away discontinued items from RS when all they need to do is go every account who owns one and take it from them.

 

 

 

They have the passwords. All they need worry about is not to do it all at once or it will raise suspicion.

 

 

 

And the player will only asume that they got hacked. They would have no prove that Jagex did it.

 

 

 

Lol, another good example. They could just do that if they wanted. Blame it on a hacking into there system someone took all the rares.

[FooK-A-Ji]

Why would they need to make this huge and elaborate update (GE) to take away discontinued items from RS when all they need to do is go every account who owns one and take it from them.

 

 

 

They have the passwords. All they need worry about is not to do it all at once or it will raise suspicion.

 

 

 

And the player will only asume that they got hacked. They would have no prove that Jagex did it.

 

 

 

Lol, another good example. They could just do that if they wanted. Blame it on a hacking into there system someone took all the rares.

 

 

 

 

 

This sounds more like a conspiracy theory, rather than "Oh my god Grand exchange is here to steal all our rares, how can you not see it when its right in front of you"?

[qeltar]

 

That's a conclusion based off of your baseless assumption. Thus, equally as baseless.

 

 

Then you shouldn't have a problem providing a valid rationale for a 12k per hour staking limit based on stopping RWT. Best of luck to you.

 

 

Show some maturity, will you?

 

 

Amazing how some people are so quick to pick and choose whose comments they consider "lacking in maturity". Might I suggest you go back to his initial comments to me and look more closely. I'm getting rather tired of certain individuals on this board declaring open season on me and others expecting me to just sit there and take it indefinitely.

 

 

The "majority is correct" logic on your part doesn't strengthen your point.

 

 

I never used such logic. Go back and re-read what I wrote.

[epeeflecher]

Why would they need to make this huge and elaborate update (GE) to take away discontinued items from RS when all they need to do is go every account who owns one and take it from them.

 

 

 

They have the passwords. All they need worry about is not to do it all at once or it will raise suspicion.

 

 

 

And the player will only asume that they got hacked. They would have no prove that Jagex did it.

 

 

 

Lol, another good example. They could just do that if they wanted. Blame it on a hacking into there system someone took all the rares.

 

 

 

 

 

This sounds more like a conspiracy theory, rather than "Oh my god Grand exchange is here to steal all our rares, how can you not see it when its right in front of you"?

 

 

 

I was being stupid mister fook.

 

 

 

But i do remember that time when Jagex said someone hacked into there system. Around..a year and a half ago.

 

 

 

It's pretty much simple. More people are trying to buy rares from the GE because there cheaper there than on the fourms and they could make a profit (If the prices havent changed) if the prices havent changed from day 1 of GE they could make around a 2M profit. That's why you can sell one in 10 seconds but cant buy one.

[SwreeTak]

A nice theory and I actually believes that it could be like this. But not with all rares, that will create chaos within the RS community. But if Jagex just sometimes did as you say, it could actually work. I'm not sure if they do it though. Probalby not, but you never know with Jagex...

[FooK-A-Ji]

No i was saying that theory was better than the topic's theory, that the GE is jagex's big bad conspiracy to steal rares.

 

 

 

Qeltars theory about jagex hating rares is utter bull.

 

In 2002 there was a massive dupe, proably 10x the amount of party hats was put in the game by certain players who knew how to duplicate item ID's. Every item has a game ID.

 

 

 

Jagex did NOTHING in the 2 hours it was going on, and they didn't delete the p hats either.

 

 

 

Is that not proof enough ?

[qeltar]

 

Qeltars theory about jagex hating rares is utter bull.

 

 

I never had a "theory about jagex hating rares". Learn how to read.

 

 

 

Here, I'll say it again for you, and I'll even use nice small words.

 

 

 

I said that based on their recent updates, I think Jagex is trying to stop not just RWT but the money orientation of the game. They made a mistake in the past by not getting rid of rares, but it's one they can still correct, and one they SHOULD correct, IMO.

[epeeflecher]

No i was saying that theory was better than the topic's theory, that the GE is jagex's big bad conspiracy to steal rares.

 

 

 

Qeltars theory about jagex hating rares is utter bull.

 

In 2002 there was a massive dupe, proably 10x the amount of party hats was put in the game by certain players who knew how to duplicate item ID's. Every item has a game ID.

 

 

 

Jagex did NOTHING in the 2 hours it was going on, and they didn't delete the p hats either.

 

 

 

Is that not proof enough ?

 

 

 

Wait, that actually happened? i was on the guys site who did that around 2 years ago when i first started playing rs. Didnt know it was real...

[Solidus_77]

Then you shouldn't have a problem providing a valid rationale for a 12k per hour staking limit based on stopping RWT. Best of luck to you.

 

 

 

Explain to me what we would gain by increasing the limit from 3k to 12k? If nothing then I see no reason to change it. Stakers can go win tournaments.

 

 

 

Amazing how some people are so quick to pick and choose whose comments they consider "lacking in maturity".

 

 

 

That particular comment of "yeah, most people are idiots.... and you're one of them!" is distasteful, has no argumentative value in it, and thus doesn't help the debate. His comment was serious and your reply was immature.

 

 

 

Might I suggest you go back to his initial comments to me and look more closely. I'm getting rather tired of certain individuals on this board declaring open season on me and others expecting me to just sit there and take it indefinitely.

 

 

 

And so you justify yourself by saying "well he said it first". That's not really helping your case. Seriously, I don't care who "started it", I want the personal attacks to end now.

 

 

 

I never used such logic. Go back and re-read what I wrote.

 

 

 

Got it right here:

 

 

 

Well, I think there is. And so do many other people.

 

 

 

You're explaining that you are correct and pointing out that many others think so. What if they are wrong? ey? We don't exactly have very many intellects around here too.

[ddaanniiellh]

Then you shouldn't have a problem providing a valid rationale for a 12k per hour staking limit based on stopping RWT. Best of luck to you.

 

 

 

Explain to me what we would gain by increasing the limit from 3k to 12k? If nothing then I see no reason to change it. Stakers can go win tournaments.

 

 

 

 

It is 12k per hour atm

 

 

 

3k per 15 min=12k per hour :D

 

~Ddaanniiellh

[qeltar]

 

Explain to me what we would gain by increasing the limit from 3k to 12k? If nothing then I see no reason to change it.

 

 

The limit should be raised from 3k to around 100-200k. This would allow medium-level staking, with only a possible maximum win of around what can be made in other ways. It would stop RWT just as well as a 3k limit, without destroying staking.

 

 

 

So why was the ridiculous 3k sum chosen? Why has Jagex refused to comment or clarify?

 

 

Stakers can go win tournaments.

 

 

Now you're resorting to little more than "it doesn't affect me so it doesn't matter". You also apparently haven't spent much time in tournaments. They are nothing like staking.

 

 

That particular comment of "yeah, most people are idiots.... and you're one of them!" is distasteful, has no argumentative value in it, and thus doesn't help the debate.

 

 

Yes, sort of like when he called me a spammer and accused me of running a "hate campaign".

 

 

 

I'm human, I get frustrated sometimes too. If you have a problem with personal attacks, you could at least try to be a little more even handed in your criticisms. I engage in FAR less of that than many other people here who come after me on a regular basis.

 

 

You're explaining that you are correct and pointing out that many others think so. What if they are wrong? ey? We don't exactly have very many intellects around here too.

 

 

 

No, I'm not explaining that I am correct. You once again did not follow the conversation.

 

 

 

Duke Freedom said there was "no problem" with rares. I said I thought there was and that many others did as well. That was not an "I am in the majority so I am right" argument, it was a "the fact that His Royal Highness Duke Freedom thinks there is no problem with rares doesn't mean everyone agrees" argument. We didn't even get to the point of who was right or wrong -- he seems to think that he can just hand-wave the issue away by pretending to speak for everybody, and he can't.

[deep_pain]

are u lot just carrying your argument over multiple threads.

 

 

 

Or do you honestly believe you're still on topic?

[Duke_Freedom]

It affects everyone, whether they own or want rares or not.

 

 

 

That's quite interesting considering I recall you saying something along the following lines somewhere else:

 

 

 

the total value of rares probably represents less than 1% of the item value in the game

 

 

 

Which is in complete contradiction with above statement.

 

 

 

accused me of running a "hate campaign".

 

 

 

You want to say you do not? I'm fairly sure you are on a journey to convince everyone that "rares are a huge problem" that "should be solved" by "removing rares" somehow. Yes, that IS a hate campaign.

 

 

 

I engage in FAR less of that than many other people here who come after me on a regular basis.

 

 

 

Yeah, bringing up irrelevant historic facts about me is useful. :roll: Lying that it is the first time you mention that is interesting as well. Concluding it all by calling it "relevant" is even worse.

 

 

 

"the fact that His Royal Highness Duke Freedom thinks there is no problem with rares doesn't mean everyone agrees" argument. We didn't even get to the point of who was right or wrong -- he seems to think that he can just hand-wave the issue away by pretending to speak for everybody, and he can't.

 

 

 

I've been having various arguments with 'anti-rares' people during the last 4 years... And yet, I still have to see ANY arguement against rares that doesn't begins with or ends with "it's an unfair advantage".

 

 

 

I still don't get your arguement here though. Pointing out that a significant portion of the uninformed RuneScape population does not agree with my notion that rares are not an issue does not defend your point at all. In fact it even breaks it down as you apparently think you can derive authority from it.

 

 

 

Now I challenge you to actually explain what you consider to be the "problem" with rares, without using any of your subjective hatred for whatever reason and to do so within a few sentences. If you are able to do that then we can actually continue to argue about something useful.

 

 

 

are u lot just carrying your argument over multiple threads.

 

 

 

Nah. The "rares are evil" arguement carries over to ANY thread that discusses something that is related to rares, mainly because of the hate campaigns that some people run against them.

[qeltar]

 

Which is in complete contradiction with above statement.

 

 

No, it's not. Not even a little bit, because the problems with them have nothing to do with relative market sizes.

 

 

 

To use a real world analogy, the size of the illicit drug market in western countries is less than 1% of GDP. Does that mean they aren't a problem? Whether you feel they are or not, the size of the market isn't the deciding factor.

 

 

You want to say you do not? I'm fairly sure you are on a journey to convince everyone that "rares are a huge problem" that "should be solved" by "removing rares" somehow. Yes, that IS a hate campaign.

 

 

I take issue with anything that I feel is detrimental to the game. I no more am running a "hate campaign" against rares than I am running one against anything else that I think is damaging to the game and to players.

 

 

I've been having various arguments with 'anti-rares' people during the last 4 years... And yet, I still have to see ANY arguement against rares that doesn't begins with or ends with "it's an unfair advantage".

 

 

For starters, "it's an unfair advantage" is a perfectly valid argument. But it's not the only one.

 

 

Now I challenge you to actually explain what you consider to be the "problem" with rares, without using any of your subjective hatred for whatever reason and to do so within a few sentences. If you are able to do that then we can actually continue to argue about something useful.

 

 

I haven't had time to fully flesh out my case against rares. I may do so in a future column. For now, I'll provide a brief outline of my issues with them.

 

 

 

1. The fairness issue that you mentioned above. And you can't just hand-wave that away, because Jagex has made many rules and policies intended to impose some measure of fairness in RuneScape.

 

 

 

2. They create effectively a two-tiered class structure within the game: those who can afford the more expensive rares and those who do not. I don't think this is healthy for the game. We end up with the current situation of people bragging because they have rares and others desperately trying to join the "upper class". I doubt that's what Jagex has in mind for the future of the game.

 

 

 

3. The people trying to get rares develop a grossly unhealthy obsession with earning money, which then pervades their entire basis of gameplay. This also then spills over to others, directly and indirectly. Every time a change is made to the game, people freak out over whether it "reduces their net wealth". Thousands of players who have plenty of money to play the game quite happily are actually miserable because they "need" 200 mil (or whatever) to buy a Burger King hat.

 

 

 

I get people PMing me worrying over whether they should sell their fuschia hat now or wait because they don't want to lose too much $ which would set them back from buying a mauve hat later, blah blah. The game is FULL of this stuff now.

 

 

 

4. With high-end staking gone, rares are now effectively the only reason for which anyone needs a ton of money in the game. The pursuit of this money is what leads to many abuses in the game, including scamming and RWT.

 

 

 

 

Nah. The "rares are evil" arguement carries over to ANY thread that discusses something that is related to rares, mainly because of the hate campaigns that some people run against them.

 

And similarly, the love campaigns that some people run for them.

 

 

 

And yes, the fact that you were a rare merchant and sold your proceeds for real money is very much relevant to your comments on the subject.

[hohto]

I'll play however I want within the rules of the game, and express whatever opinions I want within the rules of this board.

 

 

 

Facts don't have anything to do with opinions. You seem to ignore every fact posted against your arguement and same time spread more and more lies, false assumptions and mindless junk. I personally find it funny how your theories are against all the theories that have been made by the ones who really have studied the subject, not just RS economy but economy as a part of real life societies.

 

 

 

I certainly don't need any advice on gameplay from admitted cheaters, thank you very much. You're practically a walking poster boy for the corruption caused by excessive money orientation in RuneScape, so it's hardly surprising that you don't think there is a problem associated with rares. :roll:

 

 

 

You're talking to the biggest merchant in whole RS history. In a legit way he has done more to this game and community than you will ever do. With his economical and statistical posts he has managed to actually help people, unlike you with your rubbish.

 

 

 

Discontinued items are one fairly significant motivation for real world trading and gold buying.

 

 

 

I've been a pmod for over 2 years. I've seen what Finnish rl traders buy and sell. I've seen what english speaking ones do. If you have ever paid any attention on this case, you will for sure find out that rares play a minimal role here. The ones who sell rares in order to sell it for gp would anyways be breaking the rules and pretty much no1 buys rares for real money or rs gp in order to buy rares. I'm now a 2nd one who has had a silver crown infront of his name to reply to this topic and both have made the same conclusion.

 

 

 

Your problem is that you can't come up with anything to back up your words. All economical theories fight against your arguements, same with the field experience of all those who have actually seen to the 2nd level of merchanting. Every time you get stuck, you either disappear or start comparing discontinued items to tulips. Reminds me a bit about the international policy of the US goverment but lets continue on that at the other topic.

 

 

 

Edit... lets stick on this one too.

 

 

 

I didn't flame anyone. I gave my opinion about a problem in the game.

 

 

 

Saying I have a "tight mind" and accusing me of nonsense is flaming. And I get a lot more flaming around here than I dish out, I assure you; most of it I don't even reply to.

 

 

 

I personally don't see how it's nonsense or flaming. You seem to have problems in accepting the facts that don't go with your opinion or you can't seem to change. Being able to learn is a great value, at least here where I live. Well, maybe that's why we were ranked as the top country in education at BBC's news today. If people were as stubborn as you are, we'd still live on a flat space geocentric world.

 

 

 

I also find it funny that you actually found the word pair "tight mind" as something to complain about and just after that you said to Duke Freedom what you said. Personally I don't wonder at all if you get a lot of insults if that's your way of behaving.

[qeltar]

 

You seem to ignore every fact posted against your arguement and same time spread more and more lies, false assumptions and mindless junk.

 

 

Fascinating that you don't seem to be able to produce any of these facts, and just continue spewing insults instead. I'm sure that speaks volumes.

 

 

I personally find it funny how your theories are against all the theories that have been made by the ones who really have studied the subject, not just RS economy but economy as a part of real life societies.

 

 

Such as?

 

 

 

I honestly couldn't care less what you think of me personally. Do you have anything relevant to contribute to the discussion?

 

 

You're talking to the biggest merchant in whole RS history.

 

 

Ooh, ah, let me get down on the ground and grovel on my knees. :roll:

 

 

 

Honestly -- couldn't care less about your hero worship. I'm only interested in the discussions.

 

 

In a legit way he has done more to this game and community than you will ever do.

 

 

Sticks and stones, etc.

 

 

 

I'm not wasting any more time responding to personal attacks. If you have something substantive to add, feel free.

[Duke_Freedom]

To use a real world analogy, the size of the illicit drug market in western countries is less than 1% of GDP.

 

 

 

Sorry, your analogy is absurd.

 

 

 

1. Yes I can hand-wave it away by pointing out that it is extremely subjective. Everyone can buy and sell rares. And it is no more an unfair advantage than older players generally already have over newer players with their higher levels and more game experience. As well that newer players have the "unfair" advantage of being able to level MUCH faster than older players could back in the days. If you realize the game is about FUN, you'll realize that all these "unfair" arguements are generally rubbish.

 

 

 

The game progresses, adapts and changes. These games are not called "persistent Virtual Worlds" for no reason. The game environment changes continously from the time it starts, its economy included. Discontinued items are no exception and over long periods of time they seem to track the inflation / money supply growth quite neatly. It is not an unfair advantage to keep up with the inflation.

 

 

 

2. You have such a class structure in every MMORPG, except that more useful, rare (under the normal definition of the word as in "very uncommon") items take their place in other games. Rares are not responsible for this class structure. It's the difference in play style: hard-core players and normal players.

 

 

 

3. Again you fall back to your subjective notion of "unhealthy obsession with earning money" and you want to force YOUR playing style on others. People play the game for different reasons. Some people like merchanting and accumulating virtual wealth. Let them be. And again it has nothing to do with discontinued items, considering it happens in all other MMORPGs as well.

 

 

 

4. Apparently you have never calculated how much money you need to level various skills the fastest (= most expensive) way possible.

 

And again, scamming and RWT are not caused by discontinued items for, yeah you guessed it, the simple reason that it happens in all other MMORPGs as well, of which most / many don't have discontinued items in their game at all.

 

 

 

So much for your arguements.

 

 

 

And yes, the fact that you were a rare merchant and sold your proceeds for real money is very much relevant to your comments on the subject.

 

 

 

If it would be relevant for anything at all, it would be to give me some authority on what RMT buyers actually use their gold for. I can guarantee you it doesn't flow into rares.