Transparency in the GE

[upthebanner]

I realise that this subject has been touched upon in other posts but Im not interested in the economics or whether it is communistic or capitalistic in principle. What I want to know is whether it is fair.

 

 

 

Yesterday morning I put a large number of steel bars for sale on my main account at a certain price. 20 minutes later I put a much smaller amount up for sale on my noob account at the same price.

 

 

 

This morning when I checked the deals my main account had not moved but my noob account trade had been completed.

 

 

 

What is happening? If there are rules that is fine but I would like to know what they are?

[Xx_Flare_xX]

When you enter something in the GE it's automatically up for sale so you can do whatever you like (i firemake)

 

when someone has brought one or more of your items you get a message on your chats screen saying one/more of your items for saying have been updated (sold)

 

 

 

nothing big, just while you was offline someone brought the items :

[upthebanner]

Sorry you have misunderstood. I have two accounts using GE. They sell the same item at the same price. My main account put its item up for sale first but my noob account sold and nothing happened to main.

[coenvg]

When you enter something in the GE it's automatically up for sale so you can do whatever you like (i firemake)

 

when someone has brought one or more of your items you get a message on your chats screen saying one/more of your items for saying have been updated (sold)

 

 

 

nothing big, just while you was offline someone brought the items :

 

 

 

ehh... what has this to do with his question??

 

 

 

I guess you haven't understood it right.

 

 

 

But I don't know, you are sure you entered the same gp amount, cause the middle, highest or lowest price can change :-k .

[killotroll]

I realise that this subject has been touched upon in other posts but Im not interested in the economics or whether it is communistic or capitalistic in principle. What I want to know is whether it is fair.

 

 

 

Yesterday morning I put a large number of steel bars for sale on my main account at a certain price. 20 minutes later I put a much smaller amount up for sale on my noob account at the same price.

 

 

 

This morning when I checked the deals my main account had not moved but my noob account trade had been completed.

 

 

 

What is happening? If there are rules that is fine but I would like to know what they are?

 

 

 

This suggests that the GE will handle smaller amounts before bigger amounts.

[doomy]

Was your smaller amount less then 1/4 of the bigger?

[upthebanner]

Iwas selling 53k of the item on main and 208 on noob

[Xx_Flare_xX]

Oh my apoligies i did misunderstand (i thought u didn't know how the GE worked :P )

 

 

 

It was probably something random like they wanted to buy a certain amount thats all : )

 

me and a friend went to sell lobbies (she had 2k i had 40) mine sold first :thumbsup:

 

 

 

---

 

Edit: i've probably misunderstood again :XD:

[upthebanner]

So it appears then that no one really understands how this may have occurred. This is a major flaw if you are playing a game where the rules are only known by the referee!!!

 

 

 

Actually I am now wondering whether in the short time between the two trades the price updated in the GE and this pushed the first offer to the end of the queue.

[Google90]

Iwas selling 53k of the item on main and 208 on noob

 

 

 

 

 

Well, der der der.

 

 

 

 

 

You are not selling 53K because that is a great amount.

 

 

 

 

 

You sold 208 instantly...its significantly lower.

 

 

 

 

 

:wall:

 

 

 

 

 

Think man....

[Dharockslayer]

GE handles low amounts before they start snooping off the higher ammounts. Thats what I think.

[upthebanner]

No it cannot be that because no computer is that clever. There has to be a queuing system of some kind and price dictates in which queue you are in. Both my offers were in same queue and they should be processed in order. If that was not the case then the system would be unfair.

 

 

 

I am definitely leaning towards updated prices causing discrepancies!!!!

[Dharockslayer]

No computer is that clever? You doubt something as simple as buying something with less objects over more objects is too high grasped for a computer?

 

 

 

This is 2008, not the 80's

[caldius]

M guess is that there are several servers that handle GE sales. When you lodge a item it is randomly entered onto a server where people can buy it. When someone searches for your item it will work its way across each server till it finds a match. So if there is more than one person selling an item it will take fro mthe first one listed at the price.

[upthebanner]

I did not mean it like that. The idea that a computer can start to discriminate between 20k or 19k and factor in times and prices is not correct. This would either require manual intervention by a human brain or would require Jagex to program in an entirely unfair way which is not really their style.

 

 

 

Caldius - I like that as an idea - It would be nice to have Jagex actually explain this

[Duke_Freedom]

If what you're telling is true, then the system works even worse than expected. Jagex really doesn't seem to understand a single bit about how its trading system should work - they got an ineffective Adaptive Pricing System and now it seems they also have an illogical queueing system.

 

 

 

And no, it is obviously not fair.

[Dharockslayer]

Now you call it discrimination? :lol:

 

 

 

Lets look at it another way, you put up a steel bar for sale, hoping it will sell soon. However, because there are loads of sales before you, you will have to wait a week before you finally sold that one steelbar. Now is this unfair? Acording to you, No. According to the guy who sold one steelbar? Yes.

 

 

 

Jagex programming stuff that is unfair, is not their style?

 

One guy can kill 12k dust devils before finally getting a dragon chainbody, one guy kills one dust devil and gets one. Perfectly fair aint it?

 

 

 

And I doubt anyone would work for a company just to connect buyers to sellers.

[upthebanner]

My use of the word discriminate just meant "tell the difference between".

 

The question of fairness is perfectly reasonable but when would a computer be able to say when the time for the bigger trade to occur is fair, and how many little trades should occur before this point, and is 53k enough bigger than say 45k, is a minute too long to wait etc(these are very human like questions). No I still feel that they would not program it that clever.

 

The point is, in any case, that we do not know what occurs in depth in GE and all this is idle conjecture. We do need to know the game rules.

[assassin_696]

Better in Help & Advice methinks

[agira]

I think then a lot of people put with same price things and just someone bought your noob account ware not main, it select GE whatever possible then randomly, i not sure what sorting of wares and comparition they do maybye like sort in price first getting lower first - if yes then who sell it GE select randomly just people not bought all this kind wares which was offered at market...

 

 

 

You can see something similar with stuff which nobody buy, but price drops, that mean then somebody sell it just GE not chosed you, thats all...

 

 

 

Like i familar with database sorting algorythms i can say then whatever GE is database based like all RuneScape and your possibility to sell depends from things which kind of sorting use Jagex on ge, normally if they remember just that fields of data like:

 

 

 

Field name / Type / Description

 

------------------------------------------------

 

PlayerID / NUMERIC / i think any nicnkname has this in RS because less HDD space require to remember some numeric value then nickname;

 

ItemID / NUMERIC / items must have same;

 

Operation / BOOLEAN / Like False (0) this item for sale and True (1) this item player want to buy;

 

Quantity / NUMERIC / GE Operation quantity

 

 

 

If we have this kind of database structure then all people with same operation and ItemID will be sorted randomly, just if they these records have aditional field like:

 

 

 

OfferDate / DATETIME / Date and time up to miliseconds when player offered it in GE

 

 

 

Just then possible to do 2ndary sorting by OfferDate DESC (decremental - to player who putted it more time ago sell it first).

 

 

 

But like we see effect what happen mean then they dont have field like OfferDate (or if they have they don't use it for sorting) and if they don't have it they don't sort using it, what mean just then you will be selected randomly from coupe of other same offers and you have 100% chance to sell just only people will buy all offers from market.

 

 

 

P.S. Any aditional sorting "eat" more HDD space and CPU time, then sometimes in performance reasons[/i] possible then they don't do some aditional more accurate operations.

 

 

 

P.P.S. Sorry for my poor english in advance :) i really terrible write with a lot of mistakes, just i good familar with software development :)

[Randox]

So the exchange didn't sell ANY of your 53k? Or it just didnt sell them all. It probably sold some of the high amount first. I find it tends to sell things as groups, and rarely sells large amounts in a few goes. It probably wont take more than a few hundred of something from one person if there is more available at the same price from other people.

[agira]

So the exchange didn't sell ANY of your 53k? Or it just didnt sell them all. It probably sold some of the high amount first. I find it tends to sell things as groups, and rarely sells large amounts in a few goes. It probably wont take more than a few hundred of something from one person if there is more available at the same price from other people.

 

 

 

Is possible looking from performance point to database like when database have more records (they for us are some GE offer requests) - system then work more slow and then best solution then to remove more records from database is first to done small quantity offers (database records) in this way they can automatically improve GE database performance, this sounds logical!

[angry555]

it might have been because your noob account put it in the g.e. first and there wasnt much of a demand for that product

[Lenticular_J]

No it cannot be that because no computer is that clever. There has to be a queuing system of some kind and price dictates in which queue you are in. Both my offers were in same queue and they should be processed in order. If that was not the case then the system would be unfair.

 

 

 

I am definitely leaning towards updated prices causing discrepancies!!!!

 

Trust me, it's just because there was a lower amount. I make laws for a living, and lower amounts always, always, always! Sell first. I don't know why, though, as I know people buy laws in large amounts. And there's always a possibility that your large pile has been picked off (if someone posted this already, sorry, I'm in a hurry and just skimmed the front page :uhh: )