Misconceptions About RWT

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

#4 RWT would have inevitably caused the downfall of Runescape.

 

 

 

Give me a break. This is my most hated claim of all. You have got to be kidding right? Any MMO that has the potential for real world gain is going to have real world traders. This has been a known fact since Ultima and Diablo. Did rwt ever cause the downfall of those games? Nope. None. In fact, the game with the most rwting is WoW. With over 2.5 million subscribers all paying 15 a pop, now shouldn't it make sense that since WoW has so many rwt's that it should not be so successful and be well on its way to demise as well? You know what causes a games demise?

 

-The release of newer and better games

 

-Lack of updates

 

-Total obliteration to the former state of the game which was well-liked

 

 

 

Jagex has chosen number 3 this time, and did so without any regards to the players who have made this game what it is today. I know Jagex did it's part, but without us Andrew would still be working on Devious Mud in his parents basement. What i'm trying to say is that Jagex should of at least asked us what we thought about their future plans long before they spent so much time working on them.

 

 

 

In conclusion my time with this game is done, I thank Jagex for the 4 years of enjoyment they have given me, and despise them for those 4 years that I now feel i've wasted. Goodbye cruel world, and good riddance.

 

 

 

By encouraging players to not give their feedback on their problems with features and stating the only way Jagex can to allow the game to function is to allow RWT as is implied by everything posted here after your initial disclaimer, that you don't in fact support RWT.

 

 

 

Why instead repost unreliable material you've taken from RWT sites, when it's obvious if you go to any MMOs forum that neither players nor game developers welcome RWT; in fact they despise it as much as our player community does. It's the in Terms & Conditions/Terms of Service of all MMOs that prohibit RWT.

 

 

 

* Unsanctioned RWT is prohibited because that it damages the reputation and playability of MMORPGs; it's in the interest of game developers to prevent it.

 

* Sites that are not licensed resellers by MMO Developers are illegal sites.

 

* All honest players abhor illegal RWT it since it promotes cheating and has historically ruined the mechanics of many a game.

 

* All honest fansites that do not promote it such illegal activities.

 

 

 

What you've posted here simply leaves in my view a lot of unanswered questions:

 

 

 

Why on Gielinor are you pasting the exact same material I've seen posted previously (before this was posted on Tip.It) on other forum by different RuneScape username? Was that other username I saw this material posted under your username perchance? If that was your username and you did write this why the alias if that's the case?

 

 

 

And if you are quitting, as you say you are anyway, why would you care to use an alias? And if you are quitting why do you care to post and respond here since the fate of RuneScape is no longer within your the sphere of interest as online game?

 

 

 

Otherwise, if this is not your material then why not simply do your own research to support your claims, or else give credit to the original author so we can see your sources? I know you are restricted in that you cannot by the rules post sites here but surely the original author would want credit for their views. By posting this under an alias, in my view, it only makes these claims harder to credit given the severity of criticism being made against Jagex.

 

 

 

My apologies if you feel accused here, but when you accuse others by pointing such major bones, and picking apart the legitimate business of the company whose game upon which this is a fansite (Tip.It) is based, you must be prepared for similarly close scrutiny.

 

 

 

The facts are in my view, that Jagex would not be making such serious legal claims against these RWT operators if there were not sound legal foundation to Jagex's statements about the level of fraud committed by these sites. If you were to do your own research and write your own material (unless that was you who posted this on that other forum) that would at least offer some integrity to these severe criticisms being levelled in this thread at Jagex.

 

 

 

In my view it's clear it's rule-abiding player base who want nothing to do with RWT, nor would they want RWT back in the game.

 

 

 

I'm really annoyed by the fact that you completely disregard how damaged this game has become through Jagex's policies against goldfarming. I'm also annoyed that you post pedestrian arguments about it that we've seen and already know. Goldfarming is bad, we hate it, it's ruining the economy, it's pissing off banks- We know this, and we'd like it to stop, but the reason there is such a problem with the updates to "stop" them is because they were simply done the wrong way. They DESTROYED a significant portion of (if not in whole) what made the game fun. That might be worth it to you or Jagex or many others who play in a RuneScape bubble who haven't experienced the best aspects of the game AS IT WAS, but I can honestly say- and I've been all over the place in this game- that it wasn't worth it.

 

 

 

Jagex is NOT open to many reasonable player ALTERNATIVES (note that they are open to suggestions concerning the updates, but not alternatives- this demonstrates how narrow their thinking is) and exceedingly slow in implementing the rest, and you cannot deny this. If Jagex had better, much more viable substitutes ready for what was removed (I seriously doubt they were in a state of emergency at the time of the changes), or took more interest in what their more vocal (but mature) players had to say, then there may not have been the problem there is now. Alas.

 

 

 

Again, what this boils down to is you saying that the removal of goldfarmers (I prefer not to use Jagex's PC term for them) was an issue bad enough to justify any action on Jagex's part to stop them. I suppose I can liken this this to the drug trade: it's a serious problem that has lasting negative consequences wherever it spreads, but it rarely cripples society as a whole. You wouldn't place the whole city under martial law and book everyone just in case they happened to be involved somehow, in case they MIGHT be involved later. That just doesn't make sense. Yet, what Jagex has done here has destroyed a great deal of the content that it offered in the name of stopping this problem. They've put a chokehold on trading, charity, and PlayerKilling, for EVERYONE. EVERYONE, from Zezima to the weakest level 3, is a suspect; nobody's innocent or can be trusted. That's the kind of paranoid mentality that leads to decadence.

 

It's absurdity.

[Fey_Warrior]

I'm really annoyed by the fact that you completely disregard how damaged this game has become through Jagex's policies against goldfarming. I'm also annoyed that you post pedestrian arguments about it that we've seen and already know. Goldfarming is bad, we hate it, it's ruining the economy, it's pissing off banks- We know this, and we'd like it to stop, but the reason there is such a problem with the updates to "stop" them is because they were simply done the wrong way. They DESTROYED a significant portion of (if not in whole) what made the game fun. That might be worth it to you or Jagex or many others who play in a RuneScape bubble who haven't experienced the best aspects of the game AS IT WAS, but I can honestly say- and I've been all over the place in this game- that it wasn't worth it.

 

 

 

Jagex is NOT open to many reasonable player ALTERNATIVES (note that they are open to suggestions concerning the updates, but not alternatives- this demonstrates how narrow their thinking is) and exceedingly slow in implementing the rest, and you cannot deny this.

 

 

 

[ ... ]

 

 

 

Again, what this boils down to is you saying that the removal of goldfarmers (I prefer not to use Jagex's PC term for them) was an issue bad enough to justify any action on Jagex's part to stop them.

 

 

 

Hi Artificial Doom Flavor,

 

 

 

As a player myself I am not responsible for these updates. And nowhere did not say I was completely happy with them either.

 

 

 

Sadly, what had been occurring due to RWT had put the game in an emergency situation.

 

 

 

It was seriously damaging the game to the point where any volunteer moderator, who knew from their active duties ("bot-busting" patrols) to remove large numbers of rule-breakers from the game, RuneScape was in the process of being seriously over-run. We sensed what players did with their rants about bots which, although they were locked on the ORSF, we knew what players were ranting about had only been the tip of that proverbial ice-berg. The game was in serious trouble if drastic measures weren't taken to curb the increasing mass of bots and illegal RWT under-mining game-play for increasing numbers of players.

 

 

 

As governments had recently realised, the MMO phenomenon and the large scale billion dollar 'black market' were undergoing levels of exploitation that they themselves saw as serious threats to real people, and not just a group of gamers:

 

Japanese gov't looks into gold farming

 

METI is surveying major gamemakers in an attempt to address real money trading and other illicit behavior in online games.

 

 

 

The practice of real money trading, the exchange of in-game currency from a massively multiplayer online game for actual real-world money, is becoming a growing concern. No longer is it simply a concern of the publishers who operate these games; now the Japanese government is opening up its own investigation into the practice.

 

 

 

The Kyoto Shimbun reports that Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) intends to look into wrongdoing perpetrated in connection with online games and virtual currencies. METI has begun its survey by interviewing major, albeit unspecified, game manufacturers on the matter.

 

 

 

This action was triggered by the recent boom in real money trading and the use of unauthorized programs to tamper with data and/or automatically obtain large amounts of virtual currency or items. Particularly troubling to METI is the appearance of organized groups capable of committing fraudulent activities on a large scale, sometimes from overseas locations. In addition to conducting its own inquiries, METI is urging the industry to take appropriate damage control measures and establish self-regulation quickly.

Read rest of article...

 

 

 

For anyone who has been watching this growing awareness all MMOs will be soon forced to change to combat the menace posed by unfettered RWT in their games. The bottom-line is, so far, RuneScape was the first to undergo major changes.

 

 

 

RuneScape certainly hasn't been the only one, for those who've been watching-out for these issues. Recent updates and changes to W.o.W have seen huge flare-ups on the forums regarding changes to both Free-Trial-Accounts, and changes to Auction Houses there. And contrary to those who say other games like W.o.W can live with RWT, and players there feel not enough is being done to combat the threat to their game from bots (or as they call them AFKs): Bots and such, Possibly a bot, /em afk report, AFK'rs + BG Rankings, Blue Please Read, Afk , You Anti-Afk'ers are really clueless

 

are just a few examples of the problems being had by the presence of RWTs and there issues with gold spam and prevention features designed to stymie bots rather than legitimate players.

 

 

 

Before the recent RuneScape updates, similar posts and criticisms of Jagex very were common like this W.o.W player's of Blizzard:

 

Re: You Anti-Afk'ers are really clueless | 01/08/2008 01:06:52 AM UTC

 

Blizz says "Customer Service goes first" i think, so maybe when their done rolling around in their money they will get to the AFK problem?

 

As Blizzard has also emphasised there is no tolerance for such cheats in their game which, when you read it, differs little from Jagex's identical stance against RWTs & bots:

 

Re: Armory and bots...Blizz lying to us? | 06/25/2007 04:37:17 PM UTC

There is no way that you, as a player, can effectively confirm--without a shadow of a doubt--that these characters are using third-party automation software to progress through the game. Finger-pointing is unfortunately a near-sighted act and will not truly benefit your cause, Heman.

 

 

 

Now, I'm unable to detail the process by which we detect the presence of such software, nor am I able to note how we reprimand those found to be using it; however, I can say that our primary goal as a company is to maintain the integrity of World of Warcraft. Period. Lying to our player base and turning a blind-eye to such exploitative activity would counter this goal in the most egregious of ways.

 

 

 

If you witness a character which you believe to be "botting," please report this behavior to the Game Master department; we'll be happy to forward the information on for appropriate investigation. And before you state that reporting serves no purpose, let me direct you here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=110416004&sid=1

 

 

 

To quote:

 

 

 

"In the US and Europe, we recently banned several thousand accounts associated with the use of botting programs that fully automate player actions, such as killing and looting monsters. We take these attempts to bypass the rules and standards of the game extremely seriously, and we will continue to aggressively monitor all World of Warcraft realms in order to protect the service and its players from the negative effects of cheating."

 

 

 

Suffice it to say, if you violate the Terms of Use, we will take action.

 

 

In fact the dialogue being had their between players and Blizzard sounds hauntingly familar:

 

Re: Patch 2.2 AH mails | 09/26/2007 09:20:43 PM UTC

 

While it is, in fact, unfortunate that we must take such measures to counter exploitative activity in-game, these measures--although placing a relative inconvenience upon legitimate players--are not, in point of fact, Horsemen of the apocalypse. You may champion the notion indefinitely, heralding this decision as a sign "of things to come" and urging others to believe that Blizzard Entertainment wants naught but to penalize the undeserving, but you would be wrong. These decisions (that of modifying both in-game mailing and Auction House systems) are not indicative of a desire to remove the "MM" from MMORPG; rather, they are simply means by which to gain an edge over the unscrupulous endeavors currently challenging the integrity of World of Warcraft.

 

 

 

It is a permanent resolution? No; such resolution ultimately lies in the hands of those who further such unwanted activity by flooding the market with eager customers. It is, however, a step in the right direction.

 

Read Steinhauer's Opinion: Gold Farming, Part 1 if you want a fan-site editors view of problems in their game.

 

 

 

This all again, isn't to say that players haven't been badly affected, however it was only a matter of time that criminals on the Internet, were going to have an impact on the now vastly larger populations of MMOs.

 

 

 

As players and particularly as members of RuneScape though, we can have our say, and continue to impress why further changes and improvements need to be made. To say we're not being listened to is no correct in my view. I've seen many, many posts by Jagex on the forums, and a lot of changes they indicated which came directly from the ORSF, and will being added to the game in the coming months.

 

 

 

Personally I'm sad about the loss of the Wilderness, but this contrasts vastly with the fact that there was never a legitimate place in our game for criminals and fraudsters like those from RWT sites.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Fey

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

Look, say what you want about it being utterly necessary, an emergency state, the sky is falling, what have you- I don't care about that. I just want my bloody game back, and goldfarmers didn't personally do anything to me except give me ore when I killed them sometimes or slow me down a bit when I tried to fish at Karamja. Now I gotta leave just because some piece in China wants to sell something that isn't his? Is this what's to become of the MMO market?

 

 

 

See you guys in StarCraft 2.

 

 

 

P.S.: I'd like you to read this, Fey, and tell me with a straight face that the removal of the Wilderness to be replaced by Bounty Hunter was the best decision they could have made.

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

That article you have linked is a near exact copy of what Bounty Hunter is with only minor differences in it (Treasure Trail variants of armor, rune/arrow limit, etc.) But tell me how that suggestion is completely different than Bounty Hunter with exception of location (of course it'll be bigger). What I noticed is that the concept of that suggestion is it's the same as the one that drives Bounty Hunter. It will be no different than Bounty Hunter with the exception of location and that it has more restrictions.

[remington]

Look, say what you want about it being utterly necessary, an emergency state, the sky is falling, what have you- I don't care about that. I just want my bloody game back, and goldfarmers didn't personally do anything to me except give me ore when I killed them sometimes or slow me down a bit when I tried to fish at Karamja. Now I gotta leave just because some piece in China wants to sell something that isn't his? Is this what's to become of the MMO market?

 

 

 

See you guys in StarCraft 2.

 

 

 

P.S.: I'd like you to read this, Fey, and tell me with a straight face that the removal of the Wilderness to be replaced by Bounty Hunter was the best decision they could have made.

 

 

 

You can choose to ignore what RWT and their ARMY of bots were doing to F2P AND many members resources.

 

 

 

You can also choose to ignore what this did to HONEST players moral as they watched not only BOTS, but drop traders get away with breaking the rules with impunity.

 

 

 

But the rest of runescape that didn't play just to PK and stake could see that the game was being slowly being ruined.

 

 

 

I didn't like all these updates. But honestly now that I see how many scams, RWT, bots, and drop traders are gone I REALLY enjoy it.

 

 

 

I was never a fan of "safe duels" at the edge so the removal of that "PKing lite" doesn't bother me in the least.

 

 

 

I can wait the six months or so for 1 verse 1 PKing to be re-introduced.

 

 

 

And I can wait for the "lend" feature to be introduced into the game.

 

 

 

Runescape is one of the FEW games that TRY to make all accounts have a fair shot at getting ahead. To many MMORPG's are ruined when they turn into "get tweaked or get left in the dust" type games.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

That article you have linked is a near exact copy of what Bounty Hunter is with only minor differences in it (Treasure Trail variants of armor, rune/arrow limit, etc.) But tell me how that suggestion is completely different than Bounty Hunter with exception of location (of course it'll be bigger). What I noticed is that the concept of that suggestion is it's the same as the one that drives Bounty Hunter. It will be no different than Bounty Hunter with the exception of location and that it has more restrictions.

 

 

 

I take it from your response that you did not have very much experience at all in the Wilderness (or for that matter, Bounty Hunter). Firstly, the Wilderness is not entirely a multi-way arena. Second, there are skilling elements in the Wilderness. These were placed there due to a danger that no longer exists (revenant AI can easily be exploited to make them entirely harmless to most players), thus making access to these resources entirely too easy compared to their former states (and entirely too boring, which I can say quite honestly from my perspective as a runite miner). Third, Bounty Hunter has just one restriction that make it impossible to PK effectively without a team or clan: the three-minute no-leave rule. That's where most of the complaints about it stem from, the fact that it is multi-way combat and features unbalanced level tiers notwithstanding.

 

 

 

Honestly, I would think all this would be obvious to you, even if you've only PKed in the Wilderness and gone to Bounty Hunter a few times.

 

 

 

You can choose to ignore what RWT and their ARMY of bots were doing to F2P AND many members resources.

 

 

 

I was a very vocal opponent of goldfarming, actually.

 

 

 

You can also choose to ignore what this did to HONEST players moral as they watched not only BOTS, but drop traders get away with breaking the rules with impunity.

 

 

 

In fact, you could say I was almost too enthusiastic to kill their workers at the runite rocks.

 

 

 

But the rest of runescape that didn't play just to PK and stake could see that the game was being slowly being ruined.

 

 

 

I played to mine runite and have fun doing it. That's impossible now that the runite rocks are non-PvP. My niche in this game has been destroyed. I think other miners feel the same way; why do you think ore prices have risen over 1.4k in the past month?

 

 

 

I didn't like all these updates. But honestly now that I see how many scams, RWT, bots, and drop traders are gone I REALLY enjoy it.

 

 

 

Maybe you do, but I definitely don't. I don't expect RuneScape to serve me, but at the same time I don't like seeing it degrade, either (in time to come, once you realize how boring skilling really is, you will understand).

 

 

 

I was never a fan of "safe duels" at the edge so the removal of that "PKing lite" doesn't bother me in the least.

 

 

 

Defending other miners, myself, destroying those who attacked us, making narrow escapes from our oppressors- those were experiences like no other in this game. They are gone, and I can say quite readily that those were the best moments I've had playing this game, period. Truly experiencing what made the Wilderness great had very little to do with just hopping the border and taking a few steps, like so many in Edgeville. You had to immerse yourself in it to understand, as I did.

 

 

 

I can wait the six months or so for 1 verse 1 PKing to be re-introduced.

 

 

 

Too long, and it'll probably be crap. I'll come back to look later but- Six months? What the hell? Jagex could at least have had that ready when they made this overhaul. Even with that, my profession as a runite miner remains entirely dull.

 

 

 

And I can wait for the "lend" feature to be introduced into the game.

 

 

 

What about gifts? And charity? And businesses?

 

 

 

Runescape is one of the FEW games that TRY to make all accounts have a fair shot at getting ahead. To many MMORPG's are ruined when they turn into "get tweaked or get left in the dust" type games.

 

 

 

What, by spending more time and not by using your brain? What the hell kind of system is that? 99 woodcutting doesn't say "dedication" to me. It says "Christ you have way too much time on your hands to spend doing menial labor, go outside."

[Omali]

Look, say what you want about it being utterly necessary, an emergency state, the sky is falling, what have you- I don't care about that. I just want my bloody game back, and goldfarmers didn't personally do anything to me except give me ore when I killed them sometimes or slow me down a bit when I tried to fish at Karamja. Now I gotta leave just because some piece in China wants to sell something that isn't his? Is this what's to become of the MMO market?

 

 

 

See you guys in StarCraft 2.

 

 

 

P.S.: I'd like you to read this, Fey, and tell me with a straight face that the removal of the Wilderness to be replaced by Bounty Hunter was the best decision they could have made.

 

 

 

People like you making comments like that are why the majority of Runescape views pkers are ignorant selfish twits who care more about their virtual bloodlust than the game that they claim to support.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

Look, say what you want about it being utterly necessary, an emergency state, the sky is falling, what have you- I don't care about that. I just want my bloody game back, and goldfarmers didn't personally do anything to me except give me ore when I killed them sometimes or slow me down a bit when I tried to fish at Karamja. Now I gotta leave just because some piece in China wants to sell something that isn't his? Is this what's to become of the MMO market?

 

 

 

See you guys in StarCraft 2.

 

 

 

P.S.: I'd like you to read this, Fey, and tell me with a straight face that the removal of the Wilderness to be replaced by Bounty Hunter was the best decision they could have made.

 

 

 

People like you making comments like that are why the majority of Runescape views pkers are ignorant selfish twits who care more about their virtual bloodlust than the game that they claim to support.

 

 

 

And comments like that reveal just how easily you can assume that I'm both a PKer and an ignorant, selfish twit. It also reveals that you're an opportunistic twit: Did you even bother to read my other posts before you decided you just had to flame me by spraying me with idiot?

[whatisup618]

Very thoughtful and I totally agree. A very good read :)