Salvia - Should it be illegal?

[venomai]

If

 

Salvia = LSD

 

LSD = Banned

 

surely?

 

Salvia = Banned

 

Salvia is not equal to LSD. The prohibition of LSD (and soft drugs in general) is causing more problems than it's attempting to resolve.

 

 

 

Throw a addict in there and you end up with problems for everybody in highier crime and mass of unpreductive kids who don't want to achieve much due to being high.

 

Most soft drugs have a low risk of physical addiction (especially a drug like LSD). Your argument is moot.

 

 

 

Legalising drugs expects drug use to go up and to then die down but i don't think it would be of any benifit to the massess to have items like salvia.

 

If you agree that legalization would ultimately reduce the rates of use and abuse, why do you favour prohibition?

 

 

 

These are drugs that have tremendous medical and therapeutic benefit, not to mention recreational benefit, to the public at large. Prohibition restricts these benefits and creates a destructive and unnecessary social stigma toward drug use in general.

 

 

 

Having that as a job is not moral and you should look to other ways to make money.

 

Immoral in your opinion. In some societies, prostitution can be seen as a respectable career and lifestyle. In the Netherlands, men and women who choose to be prostitutes are protected by the state rather than prosecuted by it.

 

 

 

Think about chocolate (bad example i know) you knwo its all the same thing but you will look to try all the different sorts of ones.

 

Terrible example: all chocolate has more or less the same effect on the body and brain. Different drugs can be widely different in their physical and psychological effects. Simply because somebody tries caffeine doesn't mean they will want to try datura, as they are recognized as two distinctly different drugs.

 

 

 

The problem with salvia is that it is portrayed by the mass media (and YouTube idiots) as a "legal high comparable to marijuana." This is really ignorant thinking.

[user1991]

If

 

Salvia = LSD

 

LSD = Banned

 

surely?

 

Salvia = Banned

 

 

 

 

 

I asumme this is something that has escaped banning due to next to no use.

 

 

 

I think there should be hard rules on drugs and the like. Liberal thinking with drugs works when its somebody who is self controlled are involved. Throw a addict in there and you end up with problems for everybody in highier crime and mass of unpreductive kids who don't want to achieve much due to being high. As much as strict banning would make it "cool" suposidly it makes people view it as a hard line between the right and wrong. Legalising drugs expects drug use to go up and to then die down but i don't think it would be of any benifit to the massess to have items like salvia.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand the mentality of these people who think drugs/prostitution should be illegal..If you take certain chemicals you can actually be locked in a cell for doing so. This is basically the same as saying "WE OWN YOU."Really, it is. How can you possibly even attempt to justify telling someone what they can and cannot do with their own body?

 

 

 

 

 

What so nobody should every say that i shouldn't stab myself? eat so much i becoem obese? Make myself heavily mentall ill?

 

You seem to have a very unfounded person vs state attitude. The goverment is the to help those you can't help themselves and inforce that on a neutral part. If somebodies self drug habbit leads to torrment of others, family, friends and crime victims for drg money then it is no longier the possition of the state. The people aren't happy about these crimes and little timmy taking drugs so ban the drugs that will meddle with his head. You can say this not the communitys business but when timmy degrates his adiction and seeks help it would of been cheapier for him to of not started at all.

 

 

 

People can SAY what they want, (kinda), but you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it does not infringe upon anyone else's freedoms. Your arguments are terrible and you're appealing to emotion, especially with this "little timmy" bs. Prohibition causes more problems than if it were legal in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

Although prostitution is unrelated i will keep it brief. It damges the areas reputation and houses prices. You don't want to bring up a family near this activity. It often leads to abuse of these women who can then find no way out of it. Also step back and think what you are agruing to legalise. Having that as a job is not moral and you should look to other ways to make money.

 

 

 

Yet another reason why religion and state should be separate. "Immoral"? Get real dude, stop trying to make people conform to what YOU think is right, especially something that doesn't harm anyone.

 

 

 

And prostitution being legal does not really affect house prices, because there would be brothels on the outskirts of the cities somewhere, the prostitutes wouldn't have to be endangered by having to work to shady guys on the street. If you watch any crime programs on TV/Discovery you'll know how many times prostitutes are the victims of rapists/killers etc, simply because they work on the street, at night. In a regulated system, prostitutes also have STD tests which reduces the cases of diseases transmitted.

 

 

 

 

 

all drugs should be legal because if you're stupid enough to do enough of them to hurt you or for you to do something ridiculously stupid, then it's your fault.

 

the only drugs that should be illegal are ones that could cause harm to others from you taking them.

 

 

 

 

 

thats a incredibily useful paradox. shame is in no shape or form does that reasoning work. I could link alchohal to drink driving to deaths to say ban the booze. If things or legalise there becomes a idea to just try one as they are just there. Think about chocolate (bad example i know) you knwo its all the same thing but you will look to try all the different sorts of ones. If that chocolate then had you eating loads of them till you died of heart attack would't you prefer the bar to be out of your reach?

 

 

 

All drugs should be legal, simple. All you have are a bunch of arguments from morality and nothing from reason. Making drugs illegal causes more problems that it aims to solve. It costs more money, puts more people in prison, makes the drugs more dangerous, creates a climate of fear and stigmatises people who use them. It ruins the lives of people who just want to smoke a joint at home with their friends and end up getting drug tested at their job and removed/kids taken away/*insert other ridiculous punishment*.

 

 

 

You need to face it that people are different, and just because you don't think something is "moral" is not a good enough reason to make it illegal. I like smoking weed, I don't drink that often, it isn't really my drug of choice, but technically, I and others like me are criminals and we are told by this government that we cannot put a certain chemical into our own bodies, apparently for our own good.

 

 

 

[Fist_of_ozzy]

Someone in my class died from marijuana when he went for a drive while he was high..

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. But are you sure it was marijuana that killed him? Are you sure it was the reason he got into a car crash? What if it was the other driver was not paying attention and he hit him? What if it was he was talking on a cell phone and it distracted him? Did you know that cell phones are more prone for accidents then being high on weed. So, this could be an argument that cell phones should be banned while driving. I'd also like to point out one more thing. Did you know your friend was high at the time, or did he just have marijuana in his system?

[warri0r45]

Someone in my class died from marijuana when he went for a drive while he was high..

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. But are you sure it was marijuana that killed him? Are you sure it was the reason he got into a car crash? What if it was the other driver was not paying attention and he hit him? What if it was he was talking on a cell phone and it distracted him? Did you know that cell phones are more prone for accidents then being high on weed. So, this could be an argument that cell phones should be banned while driving. I'd also like to point out one more thing. Did you know your friend was high at the time, or did he just have marijuana in his system?

 

 

 

There's no need to make excuses for him. Some people have died while driving high before. I know of a case, but it's one of those "friend of a friend" instances.

 

 

 

No one should drive while high/drunk/busy on the phone/putting on makeup/etc. It's just common sense.

[ElkNight]

Someone in my class died from marijuana when he went for a drive while he was high..

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. But are you sure it was marijuana that killed him? Are you sure it was the reason he got into a car crash? What if it was the other driver was not paying attention and he hit him? What if it was he was talking on a cell phone and it distracted him? Did you know that cell phones are more prone for accidents then being high on weed. So, this could be an argument that cell phones should be banned while driving. I'd also like to point out one more thing. Did you know your friend was high at the time, or did he just have marijuana in his system?

 

Where I live, cell phones ARE banned for driving.

[darthnixon16]

 

Salvia is not equal to LSD. The prohibition of LSD (and soft drugs in general) is causing more problems than it's attempting to resolve.

 

 

All i saw was LSd is like Salvia in the open sentense so made a possible sillygism. I cam here more interested to dicuss bans and legalisation of drugs.

 

 

 

 

 

Most soft drugs have a low risk of physical addiction (especially a drug like LSD). Your argument is moot..

 

 

 

So we shoudl legalise everythign because they is a chance of a few exceptions? Most drugs we are talking about here are addictive. People can still be dependant of LSD for mentally if you could source your info that would be great.

 

 

 

 

If you agree that legalization would ultimately reduce the rates of use and abuse, why do you favour prohibition?

 

 

 

The thoery says it will reduce but if that happens is what this debate is about. I favour prohibition on dangerious drugs as there will always be mindless young thickess you want the stuff.

 

 

 

These are drugs that have tremendous medical and therapeutic benefit, not to mention recreational benefit, to the public at large. Prohibition restricts these benefits and creates a destructive and unnecessary social stigma toward drug use in general.

 

 

 

you have gone off on a tangent nobody is arguing here. I am not saying medical drugs in any way and you are misguided is you think E has medical benifits. Such painkillier like morfine which come from heroin is good. I am not arguing that at all and research of the like doesn't stop. And just because some form is good doesn't mean all its brother and sisters are going to be too.

 

 

 

 

Immoral in your opinion. In some societies, prostitution can be seen as a respectable career and lifestyle. In the Netherlands, men and women who choose to be prostitutes are protected by the state rather than prosecuted by it.

 

You are setting yourself really low targets if you want to be a prostitite. I would like no more debate on this or we will end up going off topic. Having such a carear doesn't further humanity offer hope to kids. Sexual immortality is wrong and if its respected and considered a great job in some societes i don't respect those socities.

 

 

 

 

All drugs should be legal, simple. All you have are a bunch of arguments from morality and nothing from reason. Making drugs illegal causes more problems that it aims to solve. It costs more money, puts more people in prison, makes the drugs more dangerous, creates a climate of fear and stigmatises people who use them. It ruins the lives of people who just want to smoke a joint at home with their friends and end up getting drug tested at their job and removed/kids taken away/*insert other ridiculous punishment*.

 

 

 

You need to face it that people are different, and just because you don't think something is "moral" is not a good enough reason to make it illegal. I like smoking weed, I don't drink that often, it isn't really my drug of choice, but technically, I and others like me are criminals and we are told by this government that we cannot put a certain chemical into our own bodies, apparently for our own good.

 

 

 

I am not going to reply directly but....

 

 

All murder thief and violence should be legal, simple. All you have are a bunch of arguments from morality and nothing from reason. Making stuff illegal causes more problems that it aims to solve. It costs money, puts people in prison, makes places dangerous, creates a climate of fear and stigmatises people who kill people. It ruins the lives of people who just want to steal loot and kill with their friends and end up getting involved in underground gangs because the goverment hates them and removed/kids taken away/*insert other ridiculous punishment*.

 

 

 

You need to face it that people are different, and just because you don't think something is "moral" is not a good enough reason to make it illegal. I like killing people, I don't shoplift that often, it isn't really my crime of choice, but technically, I and others like me are criminals and we are told by this government that we cannot put a certain chemical into our own bodies, apparently for our own good.

 

 

 

I can turn every single own of your aguments onto other matters. This is how shallow your agruement is. I know reading it should satrical but come to drug related problems.

[deloriagod]

I cam here more interested to dicuss bans and legalisation of drugs.

 

 

 

I would say it's very difficult to discuss bans/restrictions on drugs without first knowing a good deal about the drugs, wouldn't you agree?

[darthnixon16]

I cam here more interested to dicuss bans and legalisation of drugs.

 

 

 

I would say it's very difficult to discuss bans/restrictions on drugs without first knowing a good deal about the drugs, wouldn't you agree?

 

 

 

just because i prefer to talk about 2^2 than 2 doesn't mean i have no understanding of basic numbers.

[mistywerty]

This is just my opinion, and I encourage you all to challenge it.

 

 

 

All drugs should be legal; people should not be forced to (not)take drugs, and the risks should be addressed appropriately. Suicide should also be legal; but only if someone is in deep pain, or depression.

 

 

 

In Amsterdam, it is legal to smoke Cannabis; there are bars where different varieties are vended, and 'Smoking Pot' is considered a social activity. The percentage of people that die from Cannabis and the drug crime rate is significently lower than over here. Odviously, making drugs illegal will not substidise the useage. There is a similar effect in Switzerland, where suicide is legal; less citizens kill themselves than they do in the USA.

 

 

 

If you put a child in a room, and told them not to touch a box, curiosity would win them over, and the child would end up opening it. If you were to put a child in a room, and didn't tell them not to open a box, they'd probably not open it. Negative re-inforcement wins people over easily; it human nature.

 

 

 

Illegal activity should be activity that harms others, not oneself. Why should the govenment tell us which sensations we are 'allowed' to feel?

 

 

 

This is what it boils down to. It's your life, make what you want of it. Every man should have teh freedom to make his own choices, and live the way he wants to.

 

 

 

N.B: I do not take/ endorse the useage of illegal drugs. Even Salvia.

[venomai]

Most drugs we are talking about here are addictive. People can still be dependant of LSD for mentally if you could source your info that would be great.

 

Most drugs discussed in this thread have a low physical addiction potential. As with any activity -- casual sex, video games, etc -- it's possible to become psychologically dependent. But we aren't about go banning casual sex and video games just because a small minority becomes dependent! :lol:

 

 

 

Here is a short list of sources that support the low physical addiction potential in both LSD and cannabis:

 

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_basics.shtml

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

 

http://www.talktofrank.com/drugs.aspx?id=192

 

http://www.drugabusehelp.com/drugs/lsd/

 

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/lsd/addiction.htm

 

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/c ... sics.shtml

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_iss ... f_cannabis

 

 

 

you have gone off on a tangent nobody is arguing here.

 

My 'tangent' was a direct response to your claim that these drugs are not useful to society.

 

 

 

you are misguided is you think E has medical benifits

 

MDMA, which is not one of the drugs I was talking about, has shown to have therapeutic potential in treating PTSD and anxiety in the terminally ill.

 

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/re ... ma_1.shtml

 

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/x_10.htm

 

 

 

However, I am more interested in the medical and recreational benefits of LSD, psilocybin, DMT and cannabis.

[RichieMcD]

Talk to Frank is a very good site for plain english no bull information on all types of drugs. Before I'd try any drugs I'd check out talktofrank for all info as it all seems accurate and true. It's claims and facts are mostly taken from government information which is quite accurate as well.

[deloriagod]

Talk to Frank is a very good site for plain english no bull information on all types of drugs. Before I'd try any drugs I'd check out talktofrank for all info as it all seems accurate and true. It's claims and facts are mostly taken from government information which is quite accurate as well.

 

 

 

Erowid.org is another good site. I haven't heard of Talk to Frank but I'll definitely check that out :)

[darthnixon16]

you have gone off on a tangent nobody is arguing here.

 

My 'tangent' was a direct response to your claim that these drugs are not useful to society.

 

care to quote me on that? because i didn't say that. Also don't musquote as when we are alking about drugs mainstream we mean the ilegal ones generally.

 

 

 

 

 

@the medical use

 

Yes i know some drugs have uses in some desease but thats not everybody now is it? You have presciptions for these things and don't need to make it super legal to be good.

[deloriagod]

 

@the medical use

 

Yes i know some drugs have uses in some desease but thats not everybody now is it? You have presciptions for these things and don't need to make it super legal to be good.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, this is just a mess if words in my opinion. I can't comprehend the first sentence seeing as how you go from talking about objects to people. And since when have we been making things "super legal"?

[venomai]

care to quote me on that?

 

Sure. You said:

 

i don't think it would be of any benifit to the massess to have items like salvia.

 

 

 

Yes i know some drugs have uses in some desease but thats not everybody now is it? You have presciptions for these things and don't need to make it super legal to be good.

 

You can't seem to form a coherent argument... :| I don't see this going very far.

 

 

 

Do you mind me asking how old you are? [Not meaning to reduce to ad hominem -- I'm simply curious.]

[darthnixon16]

 

Do you mind me asking how old you are? Not meaning to reduce to ad hominem -- I'm simply curious.

 

 

 

why how old do i come across?

 

 

 

Yer i seem to have contradicted myself to clear up

 

 

 

medically nothing wrong with drugs

 

for recreational use = bad and unhelpful

[deloriagod]

 

for recreational use = bad and unhelpful

 

 

 

Care to elaborate as to why they're bad/unhelpful? Personally I love the art that is inspired from drug use and have found recreational drugs to be quite helpful in expanding my mind.

[user1991]

 

 

All drugs should be legal, simple. All you have are a bunch of arguments from morality and nothing from reason. Making drugs illegal causes more problems that it aims to solve. It costs more money, puts more people in prison, makes the drugs more dangerous, creates a climate of fear and stigmatises people who use them. It ruins the lives of people who just want to smoke a joint at home with their friends and end up getting drug tested at their job and removed/kids taken away/*insert other ridiculous punishment*.

 

 

 

You need to face it that people are different, and just because you don't think something is "moral" is not a good enough reason to make it illegal. I like smoking weed, I don't drink that often, it isn't really my drug of choice, but technically, I and others like me are criminals and we are told by this government that we cannot put a certain chemical into our own bodies, apparently for our own good.

 

 

 

I am not going to reply directly but....

 

 

All murder thief and violence should be legal, simple. All you have are a bunch of arguments from morality and nothing from reason. Making stuff illegal causes more problems that it aims to solve. It costs money, puts people in prison, makes places dangerous, creates a climate of fear and stigmatises people who kill people. It ruins the lives of people who just want to steal loot and kill with their friends and end up getting involved in underground gangs because the goverment hates them and removed/kids taken away/*insert other ridiculous punishment*.

 

 

 

You need to face it that people are different, and just because you don't think something is "moral" is not a good enough reason to make it illegal. I like killing people, I don't shoplift that often, it isn't really my crime of choice, but technically, I and others like me are criminals and we are told by this government that we cannot put a certain chemical into our own bodies, apparently for our own good.

 

 

 

I can turn every single own of your aguments onto other matters. This is how shallow your agruement is. I know reading it should satrical but come to drug related problems.

 

 

 

Ok, first things first.

 

 

 

Drug use doesn't impose on anyone else's freedoms (unless they do something whilst high)

 

 

 

Murder clearly imposes on other peoples' freedoms.

 

 

 

Your arguments are terrible and no, you cannot even attempt to equate drug use and murder unless you are an absolute moron. Sure, logically speaking your paragraph makes sense, (look up the real meaning of logic before you criticise me here), but if you apply it to the concept of "do not impose on other's freedoms" then it just doesn't work.

[darthnixon16]

 

for recreational use = bad and unhelpful

 

 

 

Care to elaborate as to why they're bad/unhelpful? Personally I love the art that is inspired from drug use and have found recreational drugs to be quite helpful in expanding my mind.

 

 

 

 

 

that was just a outlining statement see my previous post for most of the details

 

 

 

I don't thnk the massess should be hurting themselves with harmful drugs drugs that can control there lives. Such drugs should be banned for the good of the massess.

 

 

 

As for the work done for the legal drugs. I know that alot of such drug were legal before WW1 and you could buy a hamper that included heroin and crack and coke caontain real coke. This was a period that produces some amazing archutecture and literature soposidly (can't name any off hand) it just eneded with the first world war. The worlds of then and now are very different and i don't think parallels can be drawn and the goverments also don't want it as it would make the country look like a bunch of crackhead on the wrld stage.

[venomai]

I don't thnk the massess should be hurting themselves with harmful drugs drugs that can control there lives. Such drugs should be banned for the good of the massess.

 

Many of these drugs have medical potential, as we have already established. Outright prohibition hinders possible medical research and use. Thus such a prohibition may not be "for the good of the masses," if they are losing out on effective treatments.

 

 

 

The drugs mentioned here (cannabis, salvia, LSD, even MDMA) have also not shown to be significantly harmful/addicting when used in moderation.

 

 

 

Lastly, a free society should also encourage freedom of thought.

 

 

 

why how old do i come across?

 

If I had to guess, it would be under 12 years old.

[RichieMcD]

I would support the the legalization of non-physically addictive drugs such as Cannabis, Ecstasy and LSD. I would never support the legalization of physically addictive drugs such as Cocaine, Amphetamines such as Speed or Meth and Heroine as eventually the habit will rule the persons live and encroach on society once they start robbing / prostitution to feed the habit.

[deloriagod]

 

I don't thnk the massess should be hurting themselves with harmful drugs drugs that can control there lives. Such drugs should be banned for the good of the massess.

 

 

 

Depending on the drugs that are used, people may not be hurting themselves as much as you think.

 

 

 

As for the work done for the legal drugs. I know that alot of such drug were legal before WW1 and you could buy a hamper that included heroin and crack and coke caontain real coke. This was a period that produces some amazing archutecture and literature soposidly (can't name any off hand) it just eneded with the first world war. The worlds of then and now are very different and i don't think parallels can be drawn and the goverments also don't want it as it would make the country look like a bunch of crackhead on the wrld stage.

 

 

 

Legalization of all drugs would not give us a bad reputation, in my opinion. I would see it as making us seem like more of a free country, since that's what we seem to pride ourselves on. Yes, we have our rights but they're slowly being taken away. Maybe some with good reason, but why tell us what we can/cannot do with our own bodies? Rhetorical question seeing as how often it comes up.

[darthnixon16]

I don't thnk the massess should be hurting themselves with harmful drugs drugs that can control there lives. Such drugs should be banned for the good of the massess.

 

Many of these drugs have medical potential, as we have already established. Outright prohibition hinders possible medical research and use. Thus such a prohibition may not be "for the good of the masses," if they are losing out on effective treatments.

 

 

 

The drugs mentioned here (cannabis, salvia, LSD, even MDMA) have also not shown to be significantly harmful/addicting when used in moderation.

 

 

 

Lastly, a free society should also encourage freedom of thought.

 

 

 

well you've failed to read now havn't you. Nowhere have i said i support outright banning of everything stop labeling me up to that so you can recycle the same points. If the drugs is under medical and very guided conditions does it fall into the grounds of being lifethreating? no. Or are you saying that even medical drugs have worse health effects? If they break my conditions they don't then follow the ruling. If something is not harmful in morderation or addiction it is not in the groups of drugs i am talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@the age comment

 

lol. :lol: