Salvia - Should it be illegal?

[RichieMcD]

Alcohol is a much more destructive drug than salvia is (out of personal experiences anyway). I don't see how Salvia can be banned while Alcohol which has proven effects of long term use leading to brain damage, sclerosis (sp?) and also the many calories in it can lead to obesity, heart disease etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never once lost it on Salvia, started fights, done anything stupid etc.

 

 

 

I've done many a stupid things when Drunk, twice nearly resulting in serious injury.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really it's just down to governments being old fashioned and only allowing what is deemed socially acceptable.

[user1991]

Alcohol is a much more destructive drug than salvia is (out of personal experiences anyway). I don't see how Salvia can be banned while Alcohol which has proven effects of long term use leading to brain damage, sclerosis (sp?) and also the many calories in it can lead to obesity, heart disease etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never once lost it on Salvia, started fights, done anything stupid etc.

 

 

 

I've done many a stupid things when Drunk, twice nearly resulting in serious injury.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really it's just down to governments being old fashioned and only allowing what is deemed socially acceptable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of this is true, but the same can be said for LSD, e, weed, DMT, *thousands of other drugs*..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The dangers of it are irrelevant. If we argue along the lines of "it is less dangerous than alcohol" then we may get to a point where everything is legal except barbs/crack+coke/heroin etc.. which is still anti-freedom because ALL drugs should be legal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's better to argue along the lines of freedom because then we get the message across to these politicians that these are our bodies and we should be able to do whatever the hell we want to them as long as we do not harm or impose on anybody else's freedoms. Of course, problems arise with the definition of harm (In On Liberty he doesn't even define "harm"), but for more specific instances we can look into it further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Small steps, and that is what it will be. First pot, then acid and e, and slowly and slowly they will adopt the concept of freedom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And in about a thousand years, we will have balanced anarchy and a society that places no hold upon the material. Hopefully.

[l0l0lpur32]

I don't understand the mentality of these people who think drugs/prostitution should be illegal..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you take certain chemicals you can actually be locked in a cell for doing so. This is basically the same as saying "WE OWN YOU."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really, it is. How can you possibly even attempt to justify telling someone what they can and cannot do with their own body?

 

 

 

What about when it starts affecting other people? e.g. drunk/drugged driving. The way "telling someone what they can and cannot do with their own body" can be justified is that irresponsible behaviour is dangerous to other people, not just the person who is acting irresponsibly.

[J a m e s]

No, it should not be illegal, nor should anything else we do to our own bodies be illegal. Let the stupid people be stupid--natural selection should eventually kick in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the fact that drugs are so taboo and hard to acquire is what makes them some so appealing to rebellious teenagers.

[evil_mumm_ra]

no, it shouldn't, even the "bad" trips on salvia aren't anything that threaten mental health or anything like that, it just doesn't last long enough to do anything damaging.

[Zox]

No.

[silver_wits]

Alcohol is a much more destructive drug than salvia is (out of personal experiences anyway). I don't see how Salvia can be banned while Alcohol which has proven effects of long term use leading to brain damage, sclerosis (sp?) and also the many calories in it can lead to obesity, heart disease etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never once lost it on Salvia, started fights, done anything stupid etc.

 

 

 

I've done many a stupid things when Drunk, twice nearly resulting in serious injury.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really it's just down to governments being old fashioned and only allowing what is deemed socially acceptable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Liver Disease!!!!

 

 

 

Anyways... they say red wine is good for the heart... I take it red wine has no alcohol right? :shock: :?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, with regards to Salvia.. I don't really care one way or another.. it's not hurting me if it's legal or illegal. -.-

[BlueLancer]

Salvia is a really, really mild drug if used recreationally. In terms of effect, it's likely weaker than hospital morphine or even aspirin with whiskey... It makes absolutely no logical sense to ban it, but obviously from the government bureaucrat's viewpoint, it's more often than not untaxable, so ruling it illegal as 'retaliation' makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cocaine and heroin should always stay illegal though, I wouldn't like my kid to have access to cheap, legal heroin and get so addicted it will be the only thing they'll appreciate in life, would you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, a few people can control their habit... But users who already somehow manage to gain money for big amounts of illegal coke/heroin, to put it bluntly, just how messed up would their life become if you could get those substances at $5 per gram in a pharmacy just by showing your ID card?

[user1991]

Salvia is a really, really mild drug if used recreationally. In terms of effect, it's likely weaker than hospital morphine or even aspirin with whiskey... It makes absolutely no logical sense to ban it, but obviously from the government bureaucrat's viewpoint, it's more often than not untaxable, so ruling it illegal as 'retaliation' makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cocaine and heroin should always stay illegal though, I wouldn't like my kid to have access to cheap, legal heroin and get so addicted it will be the only thing they'll appreciate in life, would you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, a few people can control their habit... But users who already somehow manage to gain money for big amounts of illegal coke/heroin, to put it bluntly, just how messed up would their life become if you could get those substances at $5 per gram in a pharmacy just by showing your ID card?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once they're an adult it should be their choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure you may not want it, but they're a completely different person and should have every right to do what they want to their own body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And of course, it would be illegal for children.

[warri0r45]

 

Salvia is a really, really mild drug if used recreationally. In terms of effect, it's likely weaker than hospital morphine or even aspirin with whiskey... It makes absolutely no logical sense to ban it, but obviously from the government bureaucrat's viewpoint, it's more often than not untaxable, so ruling it illegal as 'retaliation' makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cocaine and heroin should always stay illegal though, I wouldn't like my kid to have access to cheap, legal heroin and get so addicted it will be the only thing they'll appreciate in life, would you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, a few people can control their habit... But users who already somehow manage to gain money for big amounts of illegal coke/heroin, to put it bluntly, just how messed up would their life become if you could get those substances at $5 per gram in a pharmacy just by showing your ID card?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once they're an adult it should be their choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure you may not want it, but they're a completely different person and should have every right to do what they want to their own body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And of course, it would be illegal for children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's say cocaine and heroin become legal and a lot more people become drug dependant and leech off society. That means your tax dollars go to feed the damage they cause both to themselves and to others. Still ok?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can see the point you're making, and in principle I agree completely. The problem is that it's just not realistic. As a society we need to stipulate that some things are off limits so that not too much time/money/life is wasted needlessly. Of course we should do that based on the best evidence available and on a case-by-case basis. I tend to think that governments these days continue to legislate based on tradition or ideology (largely political ideology) rather than evidence and reason.

[jokemaster]

Salvia has a different effect on everybody. I do understand the problem with some recreational drugs but not all of them. I know some adults that like to come home after work and smoke a joint to calm themselves down. As long as they are responsible and keep themelves under control whats the big deal?

[user1991]

 

 

Salvia is a really, really mild drug if used recreationally. In terms of effect, it's likely weaker than hospital morphine or even aspirin with whiskey... It makes absolutely no logical sense to ban it, but obviously from the government bureaucrat's viewpoint, it's more often than not untaxable, so ruling it illegal as 'retaliation' makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cocaine and heroin should always stay illegal though, I wouldn't like my kid to have access to cheap, legal heroin and get so addicted it will be the only thing they'll appreciate in life, would you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, a few people can control their habit... But users who already somehow manage to gain money for big amounts of illegal coke/heroin, to put it bluntly, just how messed up would their life become if you could get those substances at $5 per gram in a pharmacy just by showing your ID card?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once they're an adult it should be their choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure you may not want it, but they're a completely different person and should have every right to do what they want to their own body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And of course, it would be illegal for children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's say cocaine and heroin become legal and a lot more people become drug dependant and leech off society. That means your tax dollars go to feed the damage they cause both to themselves and to others. Still ok?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can see the point you're making, and in principle I agree completely. The problem is that it's just not realistic. As a society we need to stipulate that some things are off limits so that not too much time/money/life is wasted needlessly. Of course we should do that based on the best evidence available and on a case-by-case basis. I tend to think that governments these days continue to legislate based on tradition or ideology (largely political ideology) rather than evidence and reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about all the money that goes towards putting drug dealers/users in prison and all the police hours that it takes to track shipments of incoming drugs etc?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd rather my money go towards people with addictions rather than needlessly putting people in prison.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All these conservatives LOL, sometimes I wonder if they've ever read the parable of the Sheep and the Goats..the whole "I was sick and you took care of me" line would sort of imply that Christians are supposed to do as such. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I think that with a fair system of education the amount of people using hard drugs would not increase with legalisation.

[warri0r45]

Good point, I suppose a lot of time and money does go into cracking down on drugs. As I said, whether or not we choose to ban something should be based on our best evidence, so if it is the case that less time, money and lives would be wasted from outright legalisation then I wouldn't be opposed to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But as for education, what would you teach people about a really addictive drug like heroin or, say, meth? Just not to do them? If these substances are freely available, I doubt educating people not to do them would work as good as the deterrent of law. It's also hard to make education about responsible use of such drugs work if they're seriously addictive. At first people might think they're using responsibly, but with substances like heroin or meth, it's too easy to get seriously addicted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose it would be a bit of a task to crunch the numbers for the cost of all these possibilities, so I don't think I'll bother doing anything like that.

[JustAGamer]

at first I thought we were trying to decide if saliva should be illegal..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've got to stop reading forums at 7-9 in the morning. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, People should probably be blocked from it for their own good. However, if you're going out of you way to get this stuff, then you're very messed up. :shame:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, survival of the fittest i suppose. If you're so depressed you need a drug to make yourself feel good, then you're not very fit.

[deloriagod]

at first I thought we were trying to decide if saliva should be illegal..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've got to stop reading forums at 7-9 in the morning. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, People should probably be blocked from it for their own good. However, if you're going out of you way to get this stuff, then you're very messed up. :shame:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, survival of the fittest i suppose. If you're so depressed you need a drug to make yourself feel good, then you're not very fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should be blocked from it for their own good? Please, tell me just how harmful this drug is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt you know anything about [harmful plant] from your post, besides it's a drug with legal status pending in most states

[Necrobean]

at first I thought we were trying to decide if saliva should be illegal..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've got to stop reading forums at 7-9 in the morning. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, People should probably be blocked from it for their own good. However, if you're going out of you way to get this stuff, then you're very messed up. :shame:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, survival of the fittest i suppose. If you're so depressed you need a drug to make yourself feel good, then you're not very fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't even know what you're talking about isn't it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Renate.

[RichieMcD]

at first I thought we were trying to decide if saliva should be illegal..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've got to stop reading forums at 7-9 in the morning. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, People should probably be blocked from it for their own good. However, if you're going out of you way to get this stuff, then you're very messed up. :shame:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, survival of the fittest i suppose. If you're so depressed you need a drug to make yourself feel good, then you're not very fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Typical view of a person who's done no research on a drugs topic other than reading the pages of the topic and the biased view instilled into them by the educational system that anything illegal or drug based is bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things. You don't need to go out of your way to purchase a vial / bag of Salvia. Most good recreational drug themed store has it.

[venomai]

But as for education, what would you teach people about a really addictive drug like heroin or, say, meth? Just not to do them?

 

 

 

Similar to the ways in which we educate the public on the risks of smoking cigarettes, which are also very addicting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If these substances are freely available, I doubt educating people not to do them would work as good as the deterrent of law.

 

 

 

What makes you think the law is a good deterrent? Compare the relative rates of marijuana and heroin use -- both Schedule I substances, and both equally as illegal in many states. The public generally favours certain drugs over others not based on their legal status, but on the perceived health risks (to themselves and others).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prohibition does not remove drug use. Rather, it removes potential tax revenue, forces the drug further underground, and often causes an increase in rates of use and abuse. Limits certainly should be set in a society to ensure its stability, but prohibition seems to be a very ineffective and inefficient way to regulate this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, full legalization is unrealistic given our current situation in the West. Decriminalization would be more realistic.

[Cyco_Reborn]

No drugs should be illegal in my opinion.

[deathdrow]

all drugs should be legal because if you're stupid enough to do enough of them to hurt you or for you to do something ridiculously stupid, then it's your fault.

 

 

 

the only drugs that should be illegal are ones that could cause harm to others from you taking them.

[palas1]

 

 

 

Mod Edit: Although discussions about the drug's legality/morality etc. are allowed, please do not post any kind of personal experiences or anecdotes with drugs, or we'll have to take action. Thanks! :

 

 

 

~meol

 

 

 

why it isn't allowed to post any kind of personal experiences?

[Will H]

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's not addictive, and not happiness creating, why do people take it? What is the point of doing something that isn't productive that you don't get happiness from?

[Saru Inc]

all drugs should be legal because if you're stupid enough to do enough of them to hurt you or for you to do something ridiculously stupid, then it's your fault.

 

 

 

the only drugs that should be illegal are ones that could cause harm to others from you taking them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's all nice, it's their fault, but if they got high off of Weed, went driving and ran over someone, or someone was killed because they were high then...

[JustAGamer]

 

 

 

Typical view of a person who's done no research on a drugs topic other than reading the pages of the topic and the biased view instilled into them by the educational system that anything illegal or drug based is bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things. You don't need to go out of your way to purchase a vial / bag of Salvia. Most good recreational drug themed store has it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dang, people are cranky in the morning. :?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know perfectly well most drugs are ordinary medicine, and thus are perfectly respectable to use. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, technichally speaking, the American Revolution was illegal. I'm not complaining against that. The American constitution even states that if the government becomes corrupt, it is the duty of the people to overthrow it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the topic at hand, also from wiki:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salvia, is a psychoactive herb which can induce strong dissociative effects

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A dissociative is a drug which reduces (or blocks) signals to the conscious mind from other parts of the brain, typically, but not necessarily, limited to the senses. Such a state of sensory deprivation and dissociation can facilitate self-exploration, hallucinations, and dreamlike states of mind which may resemble some psychedelic mindstates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Questions of the morality of it as defined by your religon aside, I daresay that you will need your senses when operating machinery/driving/etc. It only lasts a few minutes, but people are idiots, and I wouldn't put it past them to do this stuff when putting in hours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, Many dissociatives also have central nervous system depressant effects, thereby carrying similar risks with opioids that slow breathing and lower the heart rate to levels which can result in death, when used in very high doses.

[Necrobean]

 

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's not addictive, and not happiness creating, why do people take it? What is the point of doing something that isn't productive that you don't get happiness from?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To explore other realms, to know that there is more in life then... The generic? I'm sorry but I can't explain. Try some shrooms, LSD, DMT or salvia, then you'll know why. This experience is unexplainable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Renate