Salvia - Should it be illegal?

[RSBDavid]

Nope. Here is why:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can die from smoking ciggs/cigars/joints.

 

 

 

You can die from over drinking alcohol.

 

 

 

You can die from over use of marijuana.

 

 

 

You can die from over-eating food.

 

 

 

You can die from over drinking water.

 

 

 

You can die from not sleeping.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hardly any of those above are illegal, yet they can be just as harmful as Salvia. It is the responsability of the people to know what to do and what not to do. Just because some people over do a drug, it shouldn't be illegal. I honestly don't care if the person dies from smoking too much marijuana. It his or her fault, not anyone else's. The person had the choice to smoke the marijuana. Our school has completly banned soda's off all kinds because some idiot died from drinking over 24 20-oz drinks. I am sick and tired of facing the same consequences of complete idiots.

[Will H]

 

 

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's not addictive, and not happiness creating, why do people take it? What is the point of doing something that isn't productive that you don't get happiness from?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To explore other realms, to know that there is more in life then... The generic? I'm sorry but I can't explain. Try some shrooms, LSD, DMT or salvia, then you'll know why. This experience is unexplainable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Renate

 

 

 

No need to explain, I just need to know this: Do you enjoy these experiences with salvia? If yes, they're causing happiness, aren't they? Of no, why do you take it?

[deloriagod]

 

 

 

You can die from over use of marijuana.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:? Marijuana itself cannot kill you because it's physically impossible to smoke enough in a short period of time to cause it to be lethal. If you did manage to smoke enough to kill yourself, it would be from oxygen deprivation (I excluded the idea of THC pills because they're quite uncommon, while smoking is the most common form of use). If you're referring to the toxins in the smoke, then we could argue that smoking anything is potentially lethal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No need to explain, I just need to know this: Do you enjoy these experiences with salvia? If yes, they're causing happiness, aren't they? Of no, why do you take it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe a new view on life would make you happy, but that's not direct happiness from the salvia. I've heard a trip on salvia is not generally a fun trip, but the experience is worth it. So why would you take it if it didn't directly make you happy? The experience and the possibility of the indirect happiness. I personally would like to try salvia because my state decides to delegalize it.

[venomai]

Questions of the morality of it as defined by your religon aside, I daresay that you will need your senses when operating machinery/driving/etc. It only lasts a few minutes, but people are idiots, and I wouldn't put it past them to do this stuff when putting in hours.

 

 

 

It's pretty hard to operate machines at all while tripping on salvia. e.g.

 

 

 

Driving on salvia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps there are a few idiots who will manage to drive while tripping on salvia (an incredible feat in itself), but there's no reason to prohibit the drug entirely because of this small minority. Lots of people drive while texting on their cell phones, but it would be ludicrous to entirely ban text messenging because of those few idiots! :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, Many dissociatives also have central nervous system depressant effects, thereby carrying similar risks with opioids that slow breathing and lower the heart rate to levels which can result in death, when used in very high doses.

 

 

 

A fatal overdose of salvia is extremely unlikely when it is smoked or chewed. One study in which rats and mice are exposed to high and chronic doses of salvinorin A concludes that "the toxicity of salvinorin A is relatively low, even at doses many times that of what humans are exposed to."[1] In all its documented use, there has not been any reports of death as a direct result of humans smoking or chewing salvia. The current evidence suggests that, in respect to toxicity, you are more likely to die from excessive aspirin use than excessive salvia use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hardly any of those above are illegal, yet they can be just as harmful as Salvia.

 

 

 

How is alcohol/tobacco abuse just as harmful as salvia abuse? No doubt smoking salvia regularly may affect lung function, but it has not shown to be nearly as harmful as the damage (and addiction) caused by heavy/chronic alcohol and tobacco abuse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No need to explain, I just need to know this: Do you enjoy these experiences with salvia? If yes, they're causing happiness, aren't they? Of no, why do you take it?

 

 

 

Many people enjoy the introspective, reality-shattering and/or spiritual experiences that are common in salvia trips. This isn't to say that they all "have fun" on salvia (although some will). Of course, not all drugs are done with the sole intention of feeling a temporary bliss.

[Necrobean]

 

 

 

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's not addictive, and not happiness creating, why do people take it? What is the point of doing something that isn't productive that you don't get happiness from?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To explore other realms, to know that there is more in life then... The generic? I'm sorry but I can't explain. Try some shrooms, LSD, DMT or salvia, then you'll know why. This experience is unexplainable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Renate

 

 

 

No need to explain, I just need to know this: Do you enjoy these experiences with salvia? If yes, they're causing happiness, aren't they? Of no, why do you take it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take it because it broadens my mind, it let me see things that are rather unknown to the generic person. I see how nature is being destroyed, how our society is corrupt, how there is far more then money, the material things in life. That school has more of a meaning then to get a good job later, do you realise that school was first intented to make one a better person? Now it's just to make more money, money, and more money. Don't think i'm some sort of religious person, not at all. Because spiritual drugs are usually linked to religion, but this isn't the case with me. If you eat a hamburger and you really like the taste, does it make you happy the next time you eat it? This is the same case. It doesn't make me happy at all, it's just an undescribable feeling. If I'd need drugs to be happy I'd have a shrink and a doctor whom would prescribe me anti-depressants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is even less harmful then marijuanna.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Renate.

[RichieMcD]

 

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's not addictive, and not happiness creating, why do people take it? What is the point of doing something that isn't productive that you don't get happiness from?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose I phrased it wrong. What I meant by "happiness creating" are euphoric drugs like Ecstasy, Heroine or Cocaine which make you happy as a result from the high. Salvia on the other hand isn't a high which creates a feeling of happiness, instead it is more of a way of changing reality or your perception of reality for a brief amount of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a difference between say LSD and Cocaine. People often do LSD to experience a completely different reality and perception of certain situations while others do Cocaine to spend the whole night on a euphoric "buzz". That would be the difference between Salvia and other legal drugs such as BZP or alcohol.

[warri0r45]

 

But as for education, what would you teach people about a really addictive drug like heroin or, say, meth? Just not to do them?

 

 

 

Similar to the ways in which we educate the public on the risks of smoking cigarettes, which are also very addicting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If these substances are freely available, I doubt educating people not to do them would work as good as the deterrent of law.

 

 

 

What makes you think the law is a good deterrent? Compare the relative rates of marijuana and heroin use -- both Schedule I substances, and both equally as illegal in many states. The public generally favours certain drugs over others not based on their legal status, but on the perceived health risks (to themselves and others).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prohibition does not remove drug use. Rather, it removes potential tax revenue, forces the drug further underground, and often causes an increase in rates of use and abuse. Limits certainly should be set in a society to ensure its stability, but prohibition seems to be a very ineffective and inefficient way to regulate this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, full legalization is unrealistic given our current situation in the West. Decriminalization would be more realistic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason I think the law is a good deterrant is because people fear the consequences of breaking it. I'll admit, it's an overly simplistic view, and I'm inclined to change my mind because it probably doesn't apply so well in this case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Building on what you said, take a look at The Netherlands, for example. It seems that they've kept marijuana use down even though it's not a criminal offence to use over there. Given a robust education system, and perhaps the right drug culture, then this could work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be interested to see how that translates into the use of hard drugs, but at present I don't think any government has the balls to do that.

[Fist_of_ozzy]

You can die from smoking ciggs/cigars/joints.

 

 

 

True.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can die from over drinking alcohol

 

 

 

True.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can die from over-eating food.

 

 

 

True.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can die from over drinking water

 

 

 

True.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can die from not sleeping.

 

 

 

True.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can die from over use of marijuana.

 

 

 

Impossiable, There's no such thing as overdosing on marijuana.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hardly any of those above are illegal, yet they can be just as harmful as Salvia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you get the impression that salvia contains more deadly chemicals than alcohol, or the tars/toxins in tobacco?

[Woodcut Lvr]

You can die from over use of marijuana.

 

 

 

Impossiable, There's no such thing as overdosing on marijuana.

 

 

 

quote]

 

 

 

Well, if you wanna get technical, you could. If you dust your Marijuana with PCP, you could die from the PCP while smoking marijuana.

[warri0r45]

 

You can die from over use of marijuana.

 

 

 

Impossiable, There's no such thing as overdosing on marijuana.

 

 

 

quote]

 

 

 

Well, if you wanna get technical, you could. If you dust your Marijuana with PCP, you could die from the PCP while smoking marijuana.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What an odd thing to say. If you're actually being technical, the PCP would kill you there, not the marijuana.

[Will H]

 

 

You do know Salvia is non-addictive and is not a happiness creating drug, it is often used to experience a different reality or perception of common life things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's not addictive, and not happiness creating, why do people take it? What is the point of doing something that isn't productive that you don't get happiness from?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose I phrased it wrong. What I meant by "happiness creating" are euphoric drugs like Ecstasy, Heroine or Cocaine which make you happy as a result from the high. Salvia on the other hand isn't a high which creates a feeling of happiness, instead it is more of a way of changing reality or your perception of reality for a brief amount of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I enjoy doing Salvia sometimes, depending on the situation and how many people are present but after I do it I don't come out with a euphoric high, it's just something different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a difference between say LSD and Cocaine. People often do LSD to experience a completely different reality and perception of certain situations while others do Cocaine to spend the whole night on a euphoric "buzz". That would be the difference between Salvia and other legal drugs such as BZP or alcohol.

 

 

 

Thanks, I just wanted to clear that up.

[sohkmj1]

Where I live, any drug that's abused by so many people it becomes a problem = banned

[BlueLancer]

Where I live, any drug that's abused by so many people it becomes a problem = banned

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Singapore also has one of the lowest crime rates of any country, cleanest streets, high financial and academic prosperity...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

 

 

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_c ... corruption

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, it's a small country, but it doesn't even rank because it has one of (if not, the) the lowest crime rates in the world, least corruption.. (Note that much smaller countries such as Malta, Estonia, do rank up there)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Statistics is a cold-hearted b*. I'm not totally anti-drugs, but nobody can deny the correlation between proper prohibition of hard drugs and a general good quality of life exists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone didn't know, the penalty for trafficking drugs in Singapore is death.

[venomai]

I'm not totally anti-drugs, but nobody can deny the correlation between proper prohibition of hard drugs and a general good quality of life exists. ... If anyone didn't know, the penalty for trafficking drugs in Singapore is death.

 

 

 

Hard drugs? Singapore prohibits any illicit drug use at all, often to the fullest extent of the law. Per capita, Singapore has the highest rate of executions, many of which are drug-related.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A heavy heroin addict, for example, would be put to death if caught with 2 or more grams of heroin (this is roughly a week's worth of daily doses).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet another contributor to Singapore's clean streets is their strict laws surrounding arms offences:

 

 

 

Any person who uses or attempts to use arms (Section 4) can face execution, as well as any person who uses or attempts to use arms to commit scheduled offences (Section 4A). These scheduled offences are:- being a member of an unlawful assembly; rioting; certain offences against the person; abduction or kidnapping; extortion; burglary; robbery; preventing or resisting arrest; vandalism; mischief. Any person who is an accomplice (Section 5) to a person convicted of arms use during a scheduled offence can likewise be executed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trafficking in arms (Section 6) is a capital offence in Singapore. Under the Arms Offences Act, trafficking is defined as being in unlawful possession of more than two firearms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_pu ... _Singapore

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Singapore certainly is interesting, though. I'll look into this.

[Fist_of_ozzy]

 

 

 

Well, if you wanna get technical, you could. If you dust your Marijuana with PCP, you could die from the PCP while smoking marijuana.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm talking about Marijuana itself, not mixed with other drugs.

[user1991]

 

 

 

Well, if you wanna get technical, you could. If you dust your Marijuana with PCP, you could die from the PCP while smoking marijuana.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's like saying "cookies are dangerous because they could, technically, be laced with cyanide."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marijuana and marijuana laced with PCP are completely different things. Not to mention, PCP laced weed is sort of an urban myth. It happens, sure, but not nearly to the extent that people say it does.

[deloriagod]

Where I live, any drug that's abused by so many people it becomes a problem = banned

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abuse is a VERY loosely used term when it comes to drugs. I smoked a joint last night. Many people would call that abuse because I used an illegal drug. I call it use because the amount I smoked was not very harmful to my body. My point is many people consider using a drug and abusing a drug the same thing. In my mind, abuse it when your drug use becomes harmful to your health or you cannot control your addiction.

[The Observer]

Go ahead, but there's a difference between the law and law enforcement. The thing is, even banning it completely isn't going to remove the problem. I'm not against it being banned though.

[BlueLancer]

Where I live, any drug that's abused by so many people it becomes a problem = banned

 

 

 

Abuse is a VERY loosely used term when it comes to drugs. I smoked a joint last night. Many people would call that abuse because I used an illegal drug. I call it use because the amount I smoked was not very harmful to my body. My point is many people consider using a drug and abusing a drug the same thing. In my mind, abuse it when your drug use becomes harmful to your health or you cannot control your addiction.

 

 

 

Even though I'm not a big friend of drugs, that's one thing I always strongly agreed with.. The term "abuse" has just become a propaganda tool in this situation (war on drugs).

 

 

 

If you are moderately using a substance, be it alcohol or drugs, and it doesn't immediately harm you or others around you.. How can it be "abuse"?

 

 

 

Likewise, if you eat greasy hamburger meals once per month, you aren't exactly "abusing junk food". If you have a glass of wine with your dinner, you aren't an alcoholic who abuses it. "Abuse" itself implies somebody is being harmed by abnormal consumption, if no harm is being done to anyone, it can't be abuse.

[doomy]

Where I live, any drug that's abused by so many people it becomes a problem = banned

 

 

 

Singapore also has one of the lowest crime rates of any country, cleanest streets, high financial and academic prosperity...

 

 

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_c ... corruption

 

 

 

Sure, it's a small country, but it doesn't even rank because it has one of (if not, the) the lowest crime rates in the world, least corruption.. (Note that much smaller countries such as Malta, Estonia, do rank up there)

 

 

 

Statistics is a cold-hearted b*. I'm not totally anti-drugs, but nobody can deny the correlation between proper prohibition of hard drugs and a general good quality of life exists.

 

 

 

If anyone didn't know, the penalty for trafficking drugs in Singapore is death.

 

My sister actually started crying when we passed through the border from Thailand to Malaysia because she thought somebody would try put drugs in her bag, and it didn't help that we kept making fun of her for it :P (the whole rest of the trip everytime she did something we'd say that they would hang her for that) Actually they didn't even search one person, I was watching and we were waiting for like 30 mins in line to cross te border.

 

 

 

With all the laws in Singapore I'm not suprised the crime rate is so low, the whole place is signs saying "do not bike here, or do not ____ here $5000", I don't suppose they actually fine that many people though.

 

But with the border from Malaysia to Singapore I'd rather not try smuggle drugs....

[trapical]

Three points.

 

-I'm sick of people saying "its natural, not lab made, so it doesn't do any permanent harm"

 

Yea, you know what else is naturally made? Cyanide, venom, radiation, and neurotoxins. I don't care if something's natural or not, in fact I would feel more safe with a lab made drug since they you know exactly what's in it.

 

 

 

-And that doesn't mean saliva isn't addictive either. Chemical addictions are a small, small part of addictions. Millions are addicted to gambling, millions more addicted to WoW. You get usually get addicted to something because you like the feel you get when you use it, it rarely has to do with chemicals.

 

 

 

-And stop saying salvia isn't bad for you. Drugs that mess with your neuro chemical balance enough to cause hallucinations are bad any way you put it. You damage the state of your cells whenever you use it (the pH gets screwed with and proteins get malformed overtime). Even if there was ZERO physiological harm you still have the chance of harming yourself and others under the influence. Someone in my class died from marijuana when he went for a drive while he was high. There is no safe drug, sellers just sell that idea so rich kids to scared to take heroin will still buy drugs from them. Heck even Tylenol and Aspirin are bad for you as they damage your liver a little bit each time you take them.

[trapical]

EDIT: double post. Oh well, I'll just edit in some more stuff...

 

 

 

People here have questioned why drugs and prostitution are illegal since it doesn't harm anyone. Well, prostitution is illegal not because the government doesn't want you to get laid, but because it encourages criminals to kidnap girls and sell their bodies, this is evident in places like Thailand where prostitution is legal and rampant, and so are reports of missing 10 year olds and sex slaves. Things are usually illegal for a reason. The only time when you should question the motives of the government is not when it bans things (like drugs), but when it doesn't ban things (like alcohol and cigarettes). Because if the government isn't banning something that seems bad, then it's because lobbyists have essentially bribed them not to. If the government does ban something though, they usually do so for good reason, not just to piss you off.

[deloriagod]

Someone in my class died from marijuana when he went for a drive while he was high.

 

 

 

I hate to be an [wagon], but I'm glad he died. Driving while under the influence of any mind altering substance is just stupid. Hopefully that was a lesson to everyone else in your area who uses marijuana to not drive while intoxicated.

[venomai]

Drugs that mess with your neuro chemical balance enough to cause hallucinations are bad any way you put it.

 

And what about hypnagogia and deep meditation? Are these activities "bad for you" because they "mess with your neuro chemical balance enough to cause hallucinations"?

 

 

 

You damage the state of your cells whenever you use it (the pH gets screwed with and proteins get malformed overtime).

 

Arguably, eating junk food is "bad for you," but in moderation it doesn't pose significant health risks. Similarly, drugs like alcohol, cannabis and salvia have not shown to be significantly harmful to us when taken in moderation.

 

 

 

Could you provide sources for cannabis/salvia/etc. causing proteins to malform over time?

 

 

 

Someone in my class died from marijuana when he went for a drive while he was high.

 

Sorry to hear.

 

 

 

Car accidents can also be caused by simple fatigue, legal drugs, text messenging, etc. This is of course no reason to prohibit or even discourage texting/fatigue/legal drugs in a safe environment, though.

 

 

 

Well, prostitution is illegal not because the government doesn't want you to get laid, but because it encourages criminals to kidnap girls and sell their bodies, this is evident in places like Thailand where prostitution is legal and rampant, and so are reports of missing 10 year olds and sex slaves.

 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, but the laws are seldom enforced and the industry is rarely regulated. The decision to legalize indoor prostitution in the Netherlands, on the other hand, was made to protect the women who choose to practice it.

[darthnixon16]

If

 

Salvia = LSD

 

LSD = Banned

 

surely?

 

Salvia = Banned

 

 

 

 

 

I asumme this is something that has escaped banning due to next to no use.

 

 

 

I think there should be hard rules on drugs and the like. Liberal thinking with drugs works when its somebody who is self controlled are involved. Throw a addict in there and you end up with problems for everybody in highier crime and mass of unpreductive kids who don't want to achieve much due to being high. As much as strict banning would make it "cool" suposidly it makes people view it as a hard line between the right and wrong. Legalising drugs expects drug use to go up and to then die down but i don't think it would be of any benifit to the massess to have items like salvia.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand the mentality of these people who think drugs/prostitution should be illegal..If you take certain chemicals you can actually be locked in a cell for doing so. This is basically the same as saying "WE OWN YOU."Really, it is. How can you possibly even attempt to justify telling someone what they can and cannot do with their own body?

 

 

 

 

 

What so nobody should every say that i shouldn't stab myself? eat so much i becoem obese? Make myself heavily mentall ill?

 

You seem to have a very unfounded person vs state attitude. The goverment is the to help those you can't help themselves and inforce that on a neutral part. If somebodies self drug habbit leads to torrment of others, family, friends and crime victims for drg money then it is no longier the possition of the state. The people aren't happy about these crimes and little timmy taking drugs so ban the drugs that will meddle with his head. You can say this not the communitys business but when timmy degrates his adiction and seeks help it would of been cheapier for him to of not started at all.

 

 

 

Although prostitution is unrelated i will keep it brief. It damges the areas reputation and houses prices. You don't want to bring up a family near this activity. It often leads to abuse of these women who can then find no way out of it. Also step back and think what you are agruing to legalise. Having that as a job is not moral and you should look to other ways to make money.

 

 

 

all drugs should be legal because if you're stupid enough to do enough of them to hurt you or for you to do something ridiculously stupid, then it's your fault.

 

the only drugs that should be illegal are ones that could cause harm to others from you taking them.

 

 

 

 

 

thats a incredibily useful paradox. shame is in no shape or form does that reasoning work. I could link alchohal to drink driving to deaths to say ban the booze. If things or legalise there becomes a idea to just try one as they are just there. Think about chocolate (bad example i know) you knwo its all the same thing but you will look to try all the different sorts of ones. If that chocolate then had you eating loads of them till you died of heart attack would't you prefer the bar to be out of your reach?