Consideration about ripping.

[The_Jeppoz]

Ok every1 knows ripping is bad and not tolerated on these boards...

 

 

 

Now i just happened to surf Media Market and some of the latest threads in here and my thought was...wtf ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How can we ban ppl for ripping a pixel sig or an abstract from some1 else when we tolerate all those grunge, game or anime related sigs that LIVE on RIPPED IMAGES ? Isn't that pure ripping ? You want an anime guy in your sig ? trace it (meh..) , draw it yourself whatever you want, but don't rip it ! PPl get paid (sometimes a lot) for those sigs they made @ 10% if you'r lucky... while a well worked on abstract or a digital painting (has any1 seen them around lately ?) is considered bad by most of ppl compared to those sigs... Imho a serious media board should prevent any kind of ripping. THIS INCLUDED. Hope some1 out there agrees..

[Godslayer]

Abstract hurts my brain. But I agree, though somehow I don't think I see the whole story. Perhaps not all the images are ripped? I don't know. But there would be a huge uproar if everyone got their sig taken away, especialy the expensive ones.

[The_Jeppoz]

Well something like "From now on you can't sell or use such sigs here, all made before can still be used."

[Godslayer]

Devils advocate: If everyone ripped pixel sigs, would you say the same thing?

[The_Jeppoz]

Since i consider myself able to create something on my own in pixel, then i'd probably be MUCH MORE ANGRY, or probably don't even visit a forum that allowed that...

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, i'd go easy on this problem if ppl didn't sell those sigs.

 

 

 

If you'r a big fan of something and you can't draw for your life...then you might even use one if you made it yourself. What i personaly find pretty bad and not correct is that ppl gets paid seling something that's not their own work in almost its totality.

 

 

 

Hope it's clearer now.

[Godslayer]

K. Erm. Dam, I got owned. Good job.

[Jlr]

you make such a great point, there are even some people who reuse the same backgrounds on different angles that are covered up by these pictures... some who even resell the render in a slightly different angle... honestly some pictures take up the whole sig and very little work is done... however, how can you stop this... I personaly find i enjoy all the sigs i make without photosm I like the work that i made to be displayed and for the user to enjoy and apreciate the time and effort i put into them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~jlr

[tttia]

This has been argued for years, and the general solution lately seems to have been to shame them and spam up their post until they abandon it. But that just makes the people doing it look bad, and does not always dissuade, so I would love to see the mods finally put this to rest. I have seen limited cases of them doing so, but I would love to see more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The issue is not only making money off of it, but doing something that is ILLEGAL in the first place

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of course will say you are just trying to maka a bigger market for your own work.

[The_Jeppoz]

Some of course will say you are just trying to maka a bigger market for your own work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well i think i'm not the right guy for that kind of sentence since it looks like in the past 5 months i've made of "Sig request dropping" a 2-nd work.

 

 

 

I'm kinda known as "almost impossible to be sent to work" or something like that...so it's not a personal profit i'm looking after. I have no need to expand a market i can't even satisfy right now :wink: . I just find it unfair for those who work hard on their OWN arts, for example you, getting a certain result in hours of work, and then some1 finds an illustration, or CG or whatever, with the same concept and makes a sig in like 10 mins of cropping...And know what ? he'll maybe get more money and better CCs than you. (just a stressed example). That's what i don't find fine. And yes...it's ILLEGAL, and yes i myself would love to see mods (or RULES) close the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit : Another good aspect of such a "ban" would be forcing ppl to try something new, 100% coming from them, and this could bring to unexpected results for every1.

[Ryan]

I spent a while trying to enforce this and no one gives a damn apparentally. I pm'd a mod and just go no response. It's always frustrated me with these "grunge" sigs how people go and just get a screenshot of a video game character and that pretty much makes the whole image. Without the ripped image they look like crap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of games do offer kits on their main sites that are available for non-commercial use. I still don't think you should even be able to use those since you're making a profit off an image someone else made.

[ice_ring]

yeah i totally disagree...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you go to a site like gamerenders.com or clantemplates you can get images that are made for the sole purpose of being in sigs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

another thing, if you were actually a abstract/grunge whatever artist (yeah i said it, flame me :roll: ) you wouldnt have a problem with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

using a render from a wallpaper or random render website or even google is a generally accepted thing on nearly every other sigmaking website EXCEPT this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"a serious media board"

 

 

 

ROFL!

 

 

 

this is a serious media board? Check the market, your pixel sigs are the only "art" anyone is interested in. There are NO really good abstract artists, NO really good digital painters. And i think even if there were no one would care. All everyone on this board cares about is seeing "a ranger in full black dragon killing a guy in full rune"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm anything else...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o yes, and about the fact that everyone believes that there is no work involved in abstracts...maybe not in many of the ones here but go to the NSL for example, people there spend up to 4 hours on a sig!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o well kinda gotten off the topic but this concludes my rant on the media board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: why the hell am I always in the minority.. when everyone else was doing abstracts I was doing pixels now when everyone is doing pixel I'm doing abstracts. :lol:

[The_Jeppoz]

First of all i realy have problems beliving all those images used here are free from copyrights, then, again, i'd have no problems at all if ppl didn't make profit off these. You want one ? make it yourself. And no1's saying quality abstracts can't be done or something like that. Actualy i'm saying the right opposite so you'd better double check posts before jumping to some1's neck. If there were no such kind of sigs, based on the image (mainly ripped) then probably you'd see better, more worked on, abstracts around. You must admit that if your sig is 80% made on a premade image and you wanna fill the remaining 20% with an abstract you'll probably just make it quick and clean, while if you had to focus your work ON the abstract you'll produce something way way better.

[ice_ring]

First of all i realy have problems beliving all those images used here are free from copyrights, then, again, i'd have no problems at all if ppl didn't make profit off these. You want one ? make it yourself. And no1's saying quality abstracts can't be done or something like that. Actualy i'm saying the right opposite so you'd better double check posts before jumping to some1's neck. If there were no such kind of sigs, based on the image (mainly ripped) then probably you'd see better, more worked on, abstracts around. You must admit that if your sig is 80% made on a premade image and you wanna fill the remaining 20% with an abstract you'll probably just make it quick and clean, while if you had to focus your work ON the abstract you'll produce something way way better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i understand what you are saying, and I think that if people were making REAL money off of them it would be a big deal but hey as I've heard many times here "its just pixels"

[Ryan]

yeah i totally disagree...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you go to a site like gamerenders.com or clantemplates you can get images that are made for the sole purpose of being in sigs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

another thing, if you were actually a abstract/grunge whatever artist (yeah i said it, flame me :roll: ) you wouldnt have a problem with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

using a render from a wallpaper or random render website or even google is a generally accepted thing on nearly every other sigmaking website EXCEPT this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"a serious media board"

 

 

 

ROFL!

 

 

 

this is a serious media board? Check the market, your pixel sigs are the only "art" anyone is interested in. There are NO really good abstract artists, NO really good digital painters. And i think even if there were no one would care. All everyone on this board cares about is seeing "a ranger in full black dragon killing a guy in full rune"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm anything else...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o yes, and about the fact that everyone believes that there is no work involved in abstracts...maybe not in many of the ones here but go to the NSL for example, people there spend up to 4 hours on a sig!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o well kinda gotten off the topic but this concludes my rant on the media board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: why the hell am I always in the minority.. when everyone else was doing abstracts I was doing pixels now when everyone is doing pixel I'm doing abstracts. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go in order of the bolds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. I make abstract sigs and I have a problem with it. There's a difference between doing 2 hours in a 3d program and 2 hours of post-work in PS and what a lot of people here do. Majority of the people download some stupid abstract crystal brush, brush it on and then colorize. They then get a game render and voila. That is a huge difference from actually knowing what you're doing in 3d and PS and planning the whole sig out. Not just hoping it looks okay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Does that make it right? Your little sites you posted aren't legal. They don't have permission from the game makers to do this. It would be too much of a hassle though for the game people to try and hunt all of these down. Maybe we should just be the bigger person and not do it in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. That's why most of the good artists aren't here for the RS aspect and posting in the Media Market? Some people here actually don't give a damn about RS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Please see #1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And your comment about the minority..how about the people here who never changed their style to fit the masses? The only reason they have some of different types is to broaden their abilities and not just to make RS cash.

[Quer_Skulll]

yeah i totally disagree...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you go to a site like gamerenders.com or clantemplates you can get images that are made for the sole purpose of being in sigs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

another thing, if you were actually a abstract/grunge whatever artist (yeah i said it, flame me :roll: ) you wouldnt have a problem with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

using a render from a wallpaper or random render website or even google is a generally accepted thing on nearly every other sigmaking website EXCEPT this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"a serious media board"

 

 

 

ROFL!

 

 

 

this is a serious media board? Check the market, your pixel sigs are the only "art" anyone is interested in. There are NO really good abstract artists, NO really good digital painters. And i think even if there were no one would care. All everyone on this board cares about is seeing "a ranger in full black dragon killing a guy in full rune"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm anything else...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o yes, and about the fact that everyone believes that there is no work involved in abstracts...maybe not in many of the ones here but go to the NSL for example, people there spend up to 4 hours on a sig!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o well kinda gotten off the topic but this concludes my rant on the media board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: why the hell am I always in the minority.. when everyone else was doing abstracts I was doing pixels now when everyone is doing pixel I'm doing abstracts. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

have you ever looked at google and seen that part saying

 

 

 

Image may be scaled down and subject to copyright.

 

 

 

that says you have a pretty good oppertunity that it is illegal to use for commercial uses such as selling sigs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its harder then you think to make a GOOD pixel sig and the reason people like them is because you can represent a scene in them.

 

 

 

Pixel Sigs take raw skill in any form of Art (color scheme, Drawing, Blending, Depth etcetra).

 

 

 

remember this is a rs related forum.. and Tip.It is the moste serieus of all the rs related forums.. if you ask me, just go to the other forums.. believe me art-wise there nothing compared to this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4-hours isn't a long time on a art piece, dont know what NSL is..

 

 

 

But abstracts + picture are overused in almoste every forum.. this is one of the few exceptions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you got my vote on this one TJ

[venomai]

if you go to a site like gamerenders.com or clantemplates you can get images that are made for the sole purpose of being in sigs.

 

 

 

HA! So all those people who spent hours building, drawing, concepting, and finally modeling & rendering Master Chief from Halo WANT it to be stolen and put on sigs worldwide?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

another thing, if you were actually a abstract/grunge whatever artist (yeah i said it, flame me :roll: ) you wouldnt have a problem with it.

 

 

 

I'm an abstractist, maybe not a good one, but everything I make is 100% from scratch. (nowadays, at least)

 

 

 

I'm disappointed when I see somebody using premades or 'game renders' on their sigs. Abstract sigs are probably one of the lowest and easiest forms of art, these artists who use premades have just taken it a step lower.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

using a render from a wallpaper or random render website or even google is a generally accepted thing on nearly every other sigmaking website EXCEPT this one.

 

 

 

Thats true, but sites devoted entirely to Sigmaking (unless the sigs include digital paintings, pixel art, or really anything other than grunge/abstract) can't be thought of as serious graphic-related sites. If you post a grunge with ripped content, or even a sig for that matter, on major graphic sites like cgtalk, 3dtotal, or conceptart, you'll be bashed and flamed within seconds. Nobody there wants to rate sigs, since they all know how little talent and effort is involved to make them, especially the grunge ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"a serious media board"

 

 

 

ROFL!

 

 

 

this is a serious media board? Check the market, your pixel sigs are the only "art" anyone is interested in. There are NO really good abstract artists, NO really good digital painters. And i think even if there were no one would care.

 

 

 

Keiphus, Tttia? Entangle? GreatSilverWyrm? LordLiquid? The Jeppoz? Zilben? (just to name a few!) All of these artists are pros at what they do, each one with their own unique style of art. We have digital painters, we have modelers, we have minimalistic-ers, pixelers, abstractists, vector artists... you name it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o yes, and about the fact that everyone believes that there is no work involved in abstracts...maybe not in many of the ones here but go to the NSL for example, people there spend up to 4 hours on a sig!

 

 

 

Thats a waste of good time. 4 hours on an abstract sig could make a beautiful abstract wallpaper, or better yet, a nice digital painting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I agree with you tj. Needs to be fixed! I hate seeing somebody who's completely ripping take the lead because his Master Chief or Max Payne is so appealing.

[ice_ring]

gah, too lazy to argue and I know I have no real good arguments to show. I know that I will continue to use gamerenders as long as i can, but maybe I'll try something different. TJ you win :|

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok one last argument... :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keiphus, Tttia? Entangle? GreatSilverWyrm? LordLiquid? The Jeppoz? Zilben? (just to name a few!) All of these artists are pros at what they do, each one with their own unique style of art. We have one digital painter, we have two modelers, we have minimalistic-ers(GSW???) , pixelers, abstractists, no vector artists... you name it!

[venomai]

gah, too lazy to argue and I know I have no real good arguments to show. I know that I will continue to use gamerenders as long as i can, but maybe I'll try something different. TJ you win :|

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok one last argument... :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keiphus, Tttia? Entangle? GreatSilverWyrm? LordLiquid? The Jeppoz? Zilben? (just to name a few!) All of these artists are pros at what they do, each one with their own unique style of art. We have one digital painter, we have two modelers, we have minimalistic-ers(GSW???) , pixelers, abstractists, no vector artists... you name it!

 

 

 

Well, Keiphus and Tttia being digital painters... As well as the beginners who are attempting it, like myself and a few others.

 

 

 

GreatSilverWyrm, maybe even Keiphus and Entangle, as well as a few others, who are great in minimalistics...

 

 

 

We have entangle, grey hawk and myself, and I'm sure I left out a whole bunch here, who are interested in 3d modeling.

 

 

 

And we have a few vector artists... Keiphus, DementedHero, and even me (again, a beginner.. but attempting to improve). Quer is even trying his hand at vectors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't have many of these unique artists, but compared to those sig-related sites you speak of (like rks-gx, gamerenders or gfx-reborn), we have enough. :) And we have a lot of pixelers, which can be just as creative and talented as digital painters. Although some may not all be that great or use proper pixeling techniques, they are learning and soon will be.

[tttia]

To me the issue is not the talent level. We have no digital painters or vector artists anywhere near the pro level. And of course when we get decent ones they are here to flaunt anyway. Most people of that caliber simply go to one of the afore-mentioned art sites to get feedback from folks at their level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The issue is also not the quality of the board. I think that Rsc is actually going to have a better board for art soon because of a few factors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all they have a terrible market for sigs there, so they don't become the focus. That is not to say they don't mainly deal with sigs...just that they don't really sell them much...a lot are free, or very cheap. They don't do it for the money. Everyone knows if you want to sells sigs you come here. That used to be a good thing. But anymore the gp is all that matters for some, and while I like the pixel trend for art's sake, it is a never ending source of noob questions and posts. The splitting into discussion and market boards certainly helped. But half of the discussoin is..."how do I put in just enough effort to sell some sigs", or "how much could I get for this?". The success of this board in the sig area has really killed it for much else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second tip has reached the point now where it actually has too many people in media for my tastes at least. We have so many that it is not as much of a family environment now. I prefer to go to rsc at times because I can at least know some of the people after a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fire Freak and Tenshi like to do some painting over there, as well as Trunks. Keiphus can get to those boards easier since they pretty much ip banned his isp here. Wyrmy is there, etc. So it is more like the old Tip boards for me, and they have a more laid back way of handling things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But as I said, the issue on ripping is that it is bad, no matter how bad the artwork, no matter what the board, it is simply illegal and wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, there are cases where people (even runescape) allow use of certain images. If that is the case, hey I have no problem with it. However, most stipulate that you gain no PERSONAL GAIN. That includes money on RS. In fact, though it is illegal, rs money HAS real life value. Misterxman and Jeppoz could have a part time job from selling their earnings on E-bay! (In fact some MMORPG companies are now controlling the action themselves by making areas for player to player marketing of in game items for real world money. Hint Hint guys...go sell there! )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If people did get their image from a game developers pack of legal use promotional images, then simply link to the page under the sig. I think that is more than fair. When I have used stock images I have tried to make note of their legal use. If such a note is not there then moderators dealing with it seems like a good idea to me. Otherwise they sanction illegal activity.

[Nadril]

yeah i totally disagree...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you go to a site like gamerenders.com or clantemplates you can get images that are made for the sole purpose of being in sigs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

another thing, if you were actually a abstract/grunge whatever artist (yeah i said it, flame me :roll: ) you wouldnt have a problem with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

using a render from a wallpaper or random render website or even google is a generally accepted thing on nearly every other sigmaking website EXCEPT this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"a serious media board"

 

 

 

ROFL!

 

 

 

this is a serious media board? Check the market, your pixel sigs are the only "art" anyone is interested in. There are NO really good abstract artists, NO really good digital painters. And i think even if there were no one would care. All everyone on this board cares about is seeing "a ranger in full black dragon killing a guy in full rune"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm anything else...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o yes, and about the fact that everyone believes that there is no work involved in abstracts...maybe not in many of the ones here but go to the NSL for example, people there spend up to 4 hours on a sig!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o well kinda gotten off the topic but this concludes my rant on the media board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: why the hell am I always in the minority.. when everyone else was doing abstracts I was doing pixels now when everyone is doing pixel I'm doing abstracts. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know very well i'm an abstract artist. And may I say, I am VERY against it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why? Well, for one, people put an image in their sig because the sig its self doesn't have a good focus point. Yup, they think a crappy background and a cool picture is a good sig! Well, if you actualy got good at abstracts (not aimed at anyone) than you could create your own focus point, taking out the need of RIPPING images.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you 100% Jeppoz. I too tried to reinforce it, but it got me into way too many arguments. In the end i've sort of given into it, although as you all know, i'm very against it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And ice, on the "serrious" media board, you obviously have your ideas set. Your thinking of a realy good media board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, there is a different between "good" and "serrious". I've seen some new artists that are serrious about what their doing, but since they are new, arn't that good. Plus, the mark about no good "abstracts" or "paintings" was sort of out of line. I've seen plenty fairly good abstracts and paintings around here (*cough*Tttia*cough* for paintings, DH for abbys, stuff like that)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, it isn't a perfect world, and those styles arn't very big. Plus, the fact that most of our best members have long since left has hurt the boards. It doesn't mean we can't be serrious though. Thing is, if we enforced the ripping deal, even if its just an image (i've tried to promote stock sites... *sigh*, guess google is so much easier...) And if we also promoted helping others more than the usual "its not bad, 7/10" deal, we could improve the comunity as a whole a LOT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i'm trying to say is, is one of the points of art is to have fun in what your making. I don't think that ripping an image is that fun, it would be so much better to do your own image. And like i said before, the good abstracts out here don't need a ripped image to make them look good, its the people who create the generaly "flat" abstracts and want to make it look better by adding an image.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it right? No.

[JD77]

i disagree!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

waht do u prefer an abstract with a super crappy pixel thing or with a game render? ive seen some really crappy pixels here and i think it would ruin the sig they are good at abstract sig but not at pixels well let em be lol. tj u say those things cause ur really good at pixels but ppl who arent but are good at abstract well they arent going to ruin their sig with a stupid master chief pixel traced thing.

[Godslayer]

No one is saying you have to do that, use your brain and read.

[Ryan]

i disagree!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

waht do u prefer an abstract with a super crappy pixel thing or with a game render? ive seen some really crappy pixels here and i think it would ruin the sig they are good at abstract sig but not at pixels well let em be lol. tj u say those things cause ur really good at pixels but ppl who arent but are good at abstract well they arent going to ruin their sig with a stupid master chief pixel traced thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you serious? He's not talking about taking a crappy pixel and putting it on an abstract. You can make an abstract image without need anything but the abstract in there. You dont' need a crappy pixel or a crappy gamerender.

[Nadril]

 

i disagree!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

waht do u prefer an abstract with a super crappy pixel thing or with a game render? ive seen some really crappy pixels here and i think it would ruin the sig they are good at abstract sig but not at pixels well let em be lol. tj u say those things cause ur really good at pixels but ppl who arent but are good at abstract well they arent going to ruin their sig with a stupid master chief pixel traced thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you serious? He's not talking about taking a crappy pixel and putting it on an abstract. You can make an abstract image without need anything but the abstract in there. You dont' need a crappy pixel or a crappy gamerender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. I think that if your abstract is good enough, there is no need for a picture at all in it. If you don't have a focus on it, than just add some more 3D to it, or something, but don't rip an image or even put one on there. Not saying you can't put a stock photo there, but its simply not necisary.

[jabraulter]

Now this isn't really on topic of use in grunge or abstract sigs, but I have had sigs before that were jsut simple photographs. Obviously, people think that these may be ripped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I am a member at a free stock image site ( http://www.sxc.hu/ ) that has catagories ranging from 'abstract' photos, to 'landscape' photographs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Among the text on the main page, I found this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Browse through the categories of our huge gallery containing over 100.000 quality stock photos by more than 9.000 users! Need a wallpaper for your desktop? Need a pic for your commercial website design? Looking for inspiration? Have a look around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share your photos with fellow designers! SXC is a friendly community of photography addicts who generously offer their works to the public free of charge. If you have some nice photos that you'd like to share with others, join us!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now certain sites openly allow the use of images, but using images found on Google.com is ripping in my eyes. Unless direct permission is granted, I say they shouldn't be used.