Training Controlled... Faster or a 'Croc'?

[fenrir321]

In theory, your dps (damage per second) is determined by your strength and attack. Your dps is affected by what monsters you train on. After point X on chickens, your strength will impact your dps more than attack. The flip side is, until point X, your accuracy will have more impact. Problem is, x is a moving target obviously. However, if we had a monster with 1000 hp and 0 defense and it's dps allowed us to camp for extended periods, with the current weapons, controlled would be the best option because, for example, a whip has better stats by far than a d scimmy. Whip + rune def is > Sara sword. It would take the same amount of time in theory to train attack, strength, and defense individually (if whips could do that) as compared to training controlled style. Since strength training is nerfed, it is quite possible that on the right monsters, controlled is the fastest way to all three melee 99s.

[Inuashakent]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.

 

Player A gets 60k xp in Att - gets a lvl (gets better xp rates)

 

Player B gets 20k in att, str and def - stays the same

 

Player A gets 60k in str - gets a lvl (gets better xp rates)

 

Player B gets 20k in att, str and def - still have not leveled

 

Player A gets 60k in def - gets a lvl at the same time Player B levels all 3

 

Player B gets 20k in att, str and def - levels all at the same time Player A gets def lvl.

 

I don't feel like writing it all out so...

 

 

 

Basicalliy, 1 Strength and Attack level will barely do ANYTHING. But the 19 Slash and 5 Strength from the Rune defender while training Strength (So 6 1/3 Slash and 5/3 Strength) will far outdo the SS + 1 Attack and Strength level.

[langer]

Absolutely agreed on that.

 

My scenario implied using weapons with the same stats which is hypothetical and pretty hard to confirm. Anyway, I'm an advocate of controlled training so this debate is pretty much over for me.

[Jimmyw3000]

iirc, you dont lose the 0.01 exp or whatever.

 

 

 

But on quite a few weapons, the controlled option has [cabbage] bonuses, whish is why people use focused.

[Troacctid]

iirc, you dont lose the 0.01 exp or whatever.

 

 

 

But on quite a few weapons, the controlled option has [cabbage] bonuses, whish is why people use focused.

 

Well obviously, in f2p. But in p2p the absolute best training weapon is the abyssal whip, and it only trains attack, defence, and controlled. In order to train strength on its own, the player needs to change to an inferior weapon.

[Itsjustagame]

Ok assume you need 50k exp in all of them. You are killing Flesh Crawlers (25hp each 100xp per kill on 1 skill with individual training 25xp to all 3 on controlled, easier to caculate). You kill them at a constant rate of 10 seconds each.

 

 

 

Individual

 

50kx3 is 150k exp total.

 

150,000/100=1,500 You need to kill 1,500 crawlers.

 

1,500x10=15,000 seconds.

 

 

 

Controlled

 

You only need to gain 50k exp since you are training all 3 at the same time.

 

50,000/25=2,000 You need to kill 2,000 crawlers.

 

2,000x10=20,000 seconds.

 

 

 

So individual training is faster. Correct me if my calculations are wrong but to me they seem correct.

 

you get more than the hp amount in experience when using controlled

[Inuashakent]

Ok assume you need 50k exp in all of them. You are killing Flesh Crawlers (25hp each 100xp per kill on 1 skill with individual training 25xp to all 3 on controlled, easier to caculate). You kill them at a constant rate of 10 seconds each.

 

 

 

Individual

 

50kx3 is 150k exp total.

 

150,000/100=1,500 You need to kill 1,500 crawlers.

 

1,500x10=15,000 seconds.

 

 

 

Controlled

 

You only need to gain 50k exp since you are training all 3 at the same time.

 

50,000/25=2,000 You need to kill 2,000 crawlers.

 

2,000x10=20,000 seconds.

 

 

 

So individual training is faster. Correct me if my calculations are wrong but to me they seem correct.

 

you get more than the hp amount in experience when using controlled

 

It's rather you seriously fail at math, or I'm starting [developmentally delayed]ed. Where the hell did you get your numbers?

[langer]

He used the wrong formula. He gave 1 xp to HP per hit. The right formula would have been to use 1,33 xp to HP per hit.

 

So instead of dividing 50k HP xp by 25, he should have divided by 33,33. That would have given him the same number and he wouldn't have posted it because he'd realised they both give the same answer.

[bor_gamewiz]

Here's an interesting quesion for all of you, does the +1 attack and strength levels affect you so significantly that you speed up the training in defence?

 

To reiterate my previous question, does the slightly increased chance to hit or the possibility to hit a little bit higher really speed up your training?

 

 

 

[hide=A few other (possibly) relevant tidbits]1. Strength doesn't mean you hit harder it just means you can hit harder but not necessarily will.

 

2. People might not train controlled for speed but consistency becaus if you train controlled you know you'll get all your levels around the same time.

 

3. As previously stated the whip is the fastest xp but it cannot train strength directly, so would getting an attack level with the whip then switching to a weapon that can't gain xp faster than the whip to level strength then switching back to the whip be faster than controlled with the whip?

 

4. Personal taste is a truly deciding factor, someone may feel as though they are gainimg faster xp with controlled than one-by-one.

 

5. If training controlled takes longer then that must mean more kills which then means more drops/randoms which in turn means more money so more supplies or better weapons and armour are acquired.[/hide]

 

 

 

These are some things to consider when making your argument.

[langer]

Here's an interesting quesion for all of you, does the +1 attack and strength levels affect you so significantly that you speed up the training in defence? No, not significantly

 

To reiterate my previous question, does the slightly increased chance to hit or the possibility to hit a little bit higher really speed up your training?

 

Yes, but not significantly

 

1. Strength doesn't mean you hit harder it just means you can hit harder but not necessarily will.It means you have a higher hit potential, lending that hit depends if your attack succeeds.

 

2. People might not train controlled for speed but consistency becaus if you train controlled you know you'll get all your levels around the same time. Indeed, but some of us thinks it will get us faster to 99 melees

 

3. As previously stated the whip is the fastest xp but it cannot train strength directly, so would getting an attack level with the whip then switching to a weapon that can't gain xp faster than the whip to level strength then switching back to the whip be faster than controlled with the whip? That'S the whole debate... I think it's slower, some thinks it faster... In the end, I'm pretty sure the difference is pretty minimal though it used to be greater before the introduction of GS and Sara Sword.

 

4. Personal taste is a truly deciding factor, someone may feel as though they are gainimg faster xp with controlled than one-by-one. Feeling it and getting it are two different things. I deal in numbers but testing this would take ages and it's not something I'd test.

 

5. If training controlled takes longer then that must mean more kills which then means more drops/randoms which in turn means more money so more supplies or better weapons and armour are acquired.[/hide]

 

Longer means less kills during the same time-lenght...which means less loot and the best armors and items are acquired later. Your reasoning is flawed a bit there, at least in relation to the debate (speed of training)

 

 

 

These are some things to consider when making your argument.

[teh_kevlar]

People also probably tested this in f2p with rune scims or other weapons with controlled without taking into account the change in attack style (45+ slash vs 7+ stab on controlled).

 

 

 

Whips use slash for any style so people who test with whips find no difference in overall exp.

 

 

 

Any differences anyone notices won't be significant as long as the style bonuses are the same. The real question to me is if enemy weaknesses to a certain style really warrant switching to a different weapon.

[bor_gamewiz]

[hide=Previous statements + arguments against them]

Here's an interesting quesion for all of you, does the +1 attack and strength levels affect you so significantly that you speed up the training in defence? No, not significantly

 

To reiterate my previous question, does the slightly increased chance to hit or the possibility to hit a little bit higher really speed up your training?

 

Yes, but not significantly

 

1. Strength doesn't mean you hit harder it just means you can hit harder but not necessarily will.It means you have a higher hit potential, lending that hit depends if your attack succeeds.

 

2. People might not train controlled for speed but consistency becaus if you train controlled you know you'll get all your levels around the same time. Indeed, but some of us thinks it will get us faster to 99 melees

 

3. As previously stated the whip is the fastest xp but it cannot train strength directly, so would getting an attack level with the whip then switching to a weapon that can't gain xp faster than the whip to level strength then switching back to the whip be faster than controlled with the whip? That'S the whole debate... I think it's slower, some thinks it faster... In the end, I'm pretty sure the difference is pretty minimal though it used to be greater before the introduction of GS and Sara Sword.

 

4. Personal taste is a truly deciding factor, someone may feel as though they are gainimg faster xp with controlled than one-by-one. Feeling it and getting it are two different things. I deal in numbers but testing this would take ages and it's not something I'd test.

 

5. If training controlled takes longer then that must mean more kills which then means more drops/randoms which in turn means more money so more supplies or better weapons and armour are acquired.

 

Longer means less kills during the same time-lenght...which means less loot and the best armors and items are acquired later. Your reasoning is flawed a bit there, at least in relation to the debate (speed of training)

 

 

 

These are some things to consider when making your argument.

[/hide]

 

 

 

I thought i might show some more reasoning behind some of my previous statements

 

 

 

1. The damage you inflict isn't actually decided by strength but largely by luck even with 99 strength you can still hit 1s on anything if your unlucky like me

 

3 and 5. Let's have 2 hypothetical and identical players, player A and player B. A needs 5 minutes of training to level up using the one-by-one method and B needs 5:40 on controlled and both are training in the same spot but whenever A levels A needs to go to the bank which takes 20 seconds. At the end both level at the same time but B generates more loot.

[langer]

1. The damage you inflict isn't actually decided by strength but largely by luck even with 99 strength you can still hit 1s on anything if your unlucky like me It's decided by luck but in relation with your str level and str bonus - which relates to str potential or dmg potential. The way I see it, on every hit you spin a random number between 0 and your total str level and str bonus (let's 190 and each level adds to it) - if you get 25 means you hit 8 and getting 175 means you hit 56 theorically. You only lend that hit if the random number your attack bonus (level and equip bonus) is higher than your enemy's random def number (lvl + equip bonus). This might seem confusing, but that's the only way it makes sense to me mathematically on a computer game.

 

As an example, I sometimes get my pray and healing bonus when specing with SGS and still hitting 0. That means I lended the hit with attack but my str failed to give me dmg.

 

3 and 5. Let's have 2 hypothetical and identical players, player A and player B. A needs 5 minutes of training to level up using the one-by-one method and B needs 5:40 on controlled and both are training in the same spot but whenever A levels A needs to go to the bank which takes 20 seconds. At the end both level at the same time but B generates more loot. At the end they both have the same level and got the same loot (loot is in relation to kill and they both need the same xp to reach the same level)

 

[bor_gamewiz]

3 and 5. Let's have 2 hypothetical and identical players, player A and player B. A needs 5 minutes of training to level up using the one-by-one method and B needs 5:40 on controlled and both are training in the same spot but whenever A levels A needs to go to the bank which takes 20 seconds. At the end both level at the same time but B generates more loot. At the end they both have the same level and got the same loot (loot is in relation to kill and they both need the same xp to reach the same level)

 

 

I was just saying that the bank trips cost time that could be used for controlled training just getting the weapon as for the loot bit i was going to delete it but i got distracted and left it there :wall:

 

 

 

EDIT: Just came up with a good point. In the theory above it is assumed controlled is slower but if controlled is truly slower then xp must be gained at a different rate. Since both A and B require the same xp and gain it at the same rate as well as having the same stats then they should both require the same time to level. Here is some extra detail: while A gains the level in attack B gains xp at the same rate as A. While A levels strength with an alternate weapon A slows down due to the worse weapon while B stays at the same rate with a headstart if A has to bank. While A levels defence A will level faster due to the strength boost and using their primary weapon and B will still level at the same rate as they always have with the headstart for the possible banking. Therefore if A brought both weapons they finish at approximately the same time but if banking is necessary B would finish first because of the banking time

[petepont]

As I don't have a very high level (76), with only two of my stats above 60, I don't know too much about the methods that you are all talking about. However, I trained up using battleaxes, training each skill individually, and I think that it's faster than controlled, if only that you deal more damage more often with other attack styles.

[pureprayer]

When I use a whip on slayer tasks If i am some 250k xp till Attack 170k xp till Strength and 44k xp till Defense I would train defense just so i could level.