Why do they have to have a reason?

 

 

 

There is a reason behind everything we do. Sometimes we just don't realize it.

 

 

 

Some people just help for the sake of helping.

 

 

 

Not sure I follow. You can say that some people eat for the sake of eating, but there is still another reason behind it.

 

 

 

Some people help people because they can and because people deserve to be helped.

 

 

 

Yes, that's a reason to help someone but I don't think that's exactly 'selfless'. In that instance of someone deserving recompense, you are just making sure justice is served because you want to.

 

 

 

For some people, helping is just an instinctual thing.. like random people who risk their lives to save someone who they don't even know and have to make that decision in an instant (whether it be pulling someone out of the way when they're in danger, or rushing to help someone, or even something less significant/dramatic, etc.).

 

 

 

Of course it stems down into your subconscious but you're still making the decision to help someone. Even if it doesn't feel like you are controlling yourself, you actually are - things are just happening too fast that you don't realize it though.

 

 

 

Not only do I think that they don't even have time to talk themselves into it like that, but I think there's something inside that person calling them to act. Something that's not selfishness or a desire to better themselves, but a simple desire to help others who need it. They just instinctually act to help that person for the sake of helping them.

 

 

 

To establish universal peace, love, and order? That seems like a pretty good reason to me. Even if your instincts make you inclined to do good deeds that doesn't mean you are doing them for no reason. I don't know how that can be considered selfless because you are doing something to establish a better world - something that you technically want.

 

 

 

I think even sacrificing your own life for someone can count as not being selfless. For example, say you are stranded on an island and you and your brother are running out of food. You can make two choices. 1.) Give him your food and save his life. 2.) Keep your food and save your life. Of course you will see option 1 as the more selfless thing to do, but hear me out... Now the reasons behind picking option 1 could be because you want your brother to live his life, you want to die nobly, or because you want to do the right thing. No matter what, all of those reasons are reasons why you want to pick option 1. Remember, your brother can make the same choices. If he wants to pick his own option 1 and you don't let him, then technically that's putting your own wants in front of his. It's a lose-lose (or should I say win-win) situation.

 

 

 

It's really just a weird twist to the word selfless - like the word "nothing". (If nothing is something then how can it be nothing? :mrgreen: ) There's no such thing as selfless because we only do what we want to do or else we wouldn't do it.

Although I do disagree with a few things you said in your post, I think in the end we may just have different definitions of 'selfish.' To address one thing you said, I don't think that choosing to save your brother because you want him to live is selfish. I don't think that selfishness is necessarily about what you want or what other people want. I think that someone is selfish if they do things solely to benefit themselves, or do things with only themselves in mind. I think that part of being selfless is expanding your horizon beyond yourself and thinking about other people. Just because someone can WANT someone else (their brother) to live, doesn't mean that they're being selfish and only thinking about what they want. It's not selfish to want someone other than yourself to live and have a good life.

 

 

 

So you're only looking at 'wants.' I don't think you can call someone selfish just because they're doing something that they WANT. I think someone is selfish if they only think about themself, not if they do things that they want. If someone wants someone else to be happy, I don't consider that selfish. If someone wants someone else to live, I don't consider that selfish. If someone kills their brother to save THEMSELVES, I would consider that selfish.

Although I do disagree with a few things you said in your post, I think in the end we may just have different definitions of 'selfish.'

 

 

 

Yes. I'm not adding a negative connotation to the word at all. I'm just saying our actions are based on our desires and that in turn constitutes as "wanting to do something because it benefits you someway somehow".

 

 

 

It's not selfish to want someone other than yourself to live and have a good life.

 

 

 

Like I said, it's just weird like the word "nothing". It can be true that it's not selfish to want someone other than yourself to live and have a good life, but it can also be true that it's not selfless to want someone to live a good life. It's a still a want. I will agree that it's less selfish to want your brother alive but I still think wanting him alive is some form of selfishness in one way or another or else you wouldn't be making that choice in the first place.

Although I do disagree with a few things you said in your post, I think in the end we may just have different definitions of 'selfish.'

 

 

 

Yes. I'm not adding a negative connotation to the word at all. I'm just saying our actions are based on our desires and that in turn constitutes as "wanting to do something because it benefits you someway somehow".

 

 

 

It's not selfish to want someone other than yourself to live and have a good life.

 

 

 

Like I said, it's just weird like the word "nothing". It can be true that it's not selfish to want someone other than yourself to live and have a good life, but it can also be true that it's not selfless to want someone to live a good life. It's a still a want. I will agree that it's less selfish to want your brother alive but I still think wanting him alive is some form of selfishness in one way or another or else you wouldn't be making that choice in the first place.

 

 

 

Zierro you're wrong when it comes to the flexibility of the word unselfish/selfless. Selfless, according to the dictionary, doesn't mean absent or gone from ones own desires completely, all the word means is having no or little regard to oneself, altruistic, generous etc.

 

 

 

On the other hand, when the word nothing is used to describe an area of conceivable space, it entails that no matter, light or anything may exist in that space. If you applied the rules of the definition of the words selfless and unselfish to nothingness, you would find people describing the liquid in an almost-empty bottle of soda as nothingness.

 

 

 

Weird as it may seem, unselfishness is not the polar opposite to selfishness, because that would be inhuman. It seems the connotation of the word has been loosened due to this fact.

all the word means is having no or little regard to oneself, altruistic, generous etc.

 

 

 

That's why I said saving your brother would be the less selfish thing to do. Anyways, my point was mainly about pure selflessness though. I've also looked up the word while I was making posts and it made me think: By saving your brother and him wanting to save you, you are making the decision to be the more selfless one which is a pretty selfish decision.

all the word means is having no or little regard to oneself, altruistic, generous etc.

 

 

 

That's why I said saving your brother would be the less selfish thing to do. Anyways, my point was mainly about pure selflessness though. I've also looked up the word while I was making posts and it made me think: By saving your brother and him wanting to save you, you are making the decision to be the more selfless one which is a pretty selfish decision.

 

 

 

No, also by saving your brother and sacrificing your life, it would also be correct to say you're being selfless.

We covered that:

 

 

 

Anyways, my point was mainly about pure selflessness though.

 

 

 

"Pure" as in the most extreme form of selflessness.

 

 

 

all the word means is having no or little regard to oneself, altruistic, generous etc.

Never mentioned "pure" in your previous posts and obviously edited your argument and pretended that you've always held that belief once proved wrong. I'm totally open to multiple viewpoints, but changing your argument to make yourself look correct pisses me off.

pretended that you've always held that belief once proved wrong

 

 

 

What am I pretending to do? You kept arguing with me after I pointed out that it only applies to pure selflessness. Maybe you should look back at my posts to Tripsis because I clearly agreed that it is more selfless than it is selfish. You probably don't even know what my main point was - our actions reflect our desires and wants so of course we have ourselves in mind when making decisions. And no matter how you slice the cake, a want is a want.

 

 

 

Perhaps you're misinterpreting.

 

 

 

By saving your brother and him wanting to save you, you are making the decision to be the more selfless one which is a pretty selfish decision.

 

 

 

Excuse me for adding "pretty" in there but I think my point still stands. No matter what you do, you're making a decision that is in your interest too. That means there is no such thing as pure selflessness because people don't do things that result in (what they would consider) a worse outcome. We don't aim to fail - we aim to succeed.

 

 

 

If we didn't want to do something then we wouldn't. Now you can use an example of kids don't want to do their chores, adults don't want to work. But in actuality when you take everything into account, they do want to do those things because of the outcome they get from it. The kids don't get punished or scolded by their parents and the adults get paid and they can support their families. They chose to do the work because the outcome was more desirable to them. They're keeping themselves in mind when making decisions.

pretended that you've always held that belief once proved wrong

 

 

 

What am I pretending to do? You kept arguing with me after I pointed out that it only applies to pure selflessness. Maybe you should look back at my posts to Tripsis because I clearly agreed that it is more selfless than it is selfish. You probably don't even know what my main point was - our actions reflect our desires and wants so of course we have ourselves in mind when making decisions. And no matter how you slice the cake, a want is a want.

 

 

 

To establish universal peace, love, and order? That seems like a pretty good reason to me. Even if your instincts make you inclined to do good deeds that doesn't mean you are doing them for no reason. I don't know how that can be considered selfless because you are doing something to establish a better world - something that you technically want.

 

 

 

I think even sacrificing your own life for someone can count as not being selfless. For example, say you are stranded on an island and you and your brother are running out of food. You can make two choices. 1.) Give him your food and save his life. 2.) Keep your food and save your life. Of course you will see option 1 as the more selfless thing to do, but hear me out... Now the reasons behind picking option 1 could be because you want your brother to live his life, you want to die nobly, or because you want to do the right thing. No matter what, all of those reasons are reasons why you want to pick option 1. Remember, your brother can make the same choices. If he wants to pick his own option 1 and you don't let him, then technically that's putting your own wants in front of his. It's a lose-lose (or should I say win-win) situation.

 

 

 

It's really just a weird twist to the word selfless - like the word "nothing". (If nothing is something then how can it be nothing? :mrgreen: ) There's no such thing as selfless because we only do what we want to do or else we wouldn't do it.

 

 

 

This quote contradicts what you just said, and you can see why I said what I said, please don't modify your argument anymore, and I don't want to litter this thread anymore with this kind of argument. I don't really wish to continue but if you do please PM me so we can avoid further spam.

My money is my friends money, even though I am trying to save up for something, like today I went into Maitland and bought my friend some phone credit because she had almost none (kinda my fault,) almost missed the train back to the town near my place too :lol:

 

 

 

Friends who jokingly pick up my food and say "thanks" often find they have free food.

I don't know...it somewhat ruins the point when you keep a list...

 

 

 

Exactly. You'd think being nice and being modest go hand in hand but some posts in this thread definitely say otherwise. [it gets even worse when someone brags about being modest.] I wouldn't even call it being nice - I'd call it purposely trying to establish a reputation as a "righteous person". :roll:

 

 

 

The point in being nice shouldn't just be to say, "Ha - I'm a kind person! I helped someone a year ago, therefore I'm nice!" Niceness shouldn't be measured in the deeds you do - but by how you live your life. A genuine nice person is consistent in their actions. Do a bad deed, and you're canceling out a good one.

I can't recall anything overly nice I've done for someone, maybe because I'm an [wagon].

I can't recall anything overly nice I've done for someone, maybe because I'm an [wagon].

 

 

 

That's what I was looking for - honesty is much more admirable than self-proclamations of "goodwill". :thumbup:

I can't recall anything overly nice I've done for someone, maybe because I'm an [wagon].

 

:

I don't view it as a contest or list of things to top. Just help people when you can to the best of your ability. It doesn't matter if you think it "doesn't pay off".. Do it for the sake of them deserving it. & people do remember helpful people positively.

 

 

 

What do you have to gain by being rude and unhelpful in life? You have everything to lose, you annoy people, create a bad image of yourself.. It's counterproductive.

What do you have to gain by being rude and unhelpful in life? You have everything to lose, you annoy people, create a bad image of yourself.. It's counterproductive.

 

 

 

This is actually where I think religion came from when you look at what it tries to teach you about morality. Supposedly you are rewarded (heaven, karma, etc.) for being a good person, but I think that reward is just really the metaphoric version of the world becoming a better place. By being a good person you make the world a better place. Everyone in their right mind wants the world to be a better place - and having your own role in making it a better place should give you an even greater feeling. So you are rewarding yourself by being a nice person.

What do you have to gain by being rude and unhelpful in life? You have everything to lose, you annoy people, create a bad image of yourself.. It's counterproductive.

 

 

 

This is actually where I think religion came from when you look at what it tries to teach you about morality. Supposedly you are rewarded (heaven, karma, etc.) for being a good person, but I think that reward is just really the metaphoric version of the world becoming a better place. By being a good person you make the world a better place. Everyone in their right mind wants the world to be a better place - and having your own role in making it a better place should give you an even greater feeling. So you are rewarding yourself by being a nice person.

 

Oh snap. I'm writing a history paper about how to create order in society.

 

The options are basically a reward/afterlife (Religion), fear of punishment (Legalism), or eh, the Confucian way. :P

 

 

 

As for the "bragging about nice things you've done kills it" thing, well, unless you run around screaming "I'M SO [bleep]ING NICE I HELP PEOPLE ALL THE TIME I'M AWESOME", then it really shouldn't be a problem. Like we've established, most humans are somewhat selfish (And there are people like me with huge egos), so no wonder we'd want to share what we've done.

Hmm, to my disappointment the only thing that comes to mind is giving my rune chain (back in the day, not when it was worthless) to a friend on RuneScape after I finished Dragon Slayer. I've saved a few guys lives on Call of Duty 4 too. Hope they didn't get angry from me "stealing their kill" when all I did was save them a death though. :?

Hmm, to my disappointment the only thing that comes to mind is giving my rune chain (back in the day, not when it was worthless) to a friend on RuneScape after I finished Dragon Slayer. I've saved a few guys lives on Call of Duty 4 too. Hope they didn't get angry from me "stealing their kill" when all I did was save them a death though. :?

 

 

 

I gave my friend a D Chain and we don't even talk anymore. :(

I don't know...it somewhat ruins the point when you keep a list...

 

 

 

Exactly. You'd think being nice and being modest go hand in hand but some posts in this thread definitely say otherwise. [it gets even worse when someone brags about being modest.] I wouldn't even call it being nice - I'd call it purposely trying to establish a reputation as a "righteous person". :roll:

 

 

 

The point in being nice shouldn't just be to say, "Ha - I'm a kind person! I helped someone a year ago, therefore I'm nice!" Niceness shouldn't be measured in the deeds you do - but by how you live your life. A genuine nice person is consistent in their actions. Do a bad deed, and you're canceling out a good one.

 

If someone goes way out of their way to do something to help another, chances are they will remember it. Also, if someone does something that greatly impacts another's life in a positive manner, that person will be sure to let them know - again, chances are they will remember it.

 

 

 

When most people do a good deed, they don't premeditate it like "What's something I can do today so that I can tell others about it later?", but moreso a situation occurs that brings out the compassion/generosity of the individual.

 

 

 

When my friend got pregnant at the age of 15 and was on the verge of being thrown out of the house by her abusive parents (juvenile detention center or foster home), I didn't spend countless hours helping her through that tough time because I wanted to. Who honestly wants to even be in that situation? I did it because she needed someone that she could talk to, and it just so happened that her best friend was a cutter and they got into a huge argument which led to them not talking to each other. Unfortunately she was sent to the JDC a while ago and I haven't heard from her since.

 

 

 

Personally, I would willingly and without question trade places with her...not because I want to be in JDC, but because I am the kind of person who doesn't get bothered by bad things happening to me. I've even told all of my friends that no matter what happens to me, I won't accept them feeling sorry for me.

 

 

 

If wanting others to live a better life than myself is selfish...then put me on the selfish list.

If wanting others to live a better life than myself is selfish...then put me on the selfish list.

 

 

 

You're using a strawman. It doesn't apply to any situation where someone is doing a nice deed. It only applies to those who have to try keeping track of all the nice things they've done. Let me ask a question. What purpose does keeping a list serve? I've done nice things that I honestly can't remember.

If wanting others to live a better life than myself is selfish...then put me on the selfish list.

 

 

 

You're using a strawman. It doesn't apply to any situation where someone is doing a nice deed. It only applies to those who have to try keeping track of all the nice things they've done. Let me ask a question. What purpose does keeping a list serve? I've done nice things that I honestly can't remember.

 

Let me answer your question with one of my own. If it only applies to those who have to try keeping track of all the nice things they've done, how is that relevent to this thread? The OP is asking for us to try and think of the nicest thing we've done, and share it with each other.

 

 

 

So again, keeping a list serves no purpose - but who's keeping a list?

Naming would only cause a flamewar on a thread about nice things... That's too much irony for me to handle. But I will say that I'm directing it towards the people who have the generic response that they have done lots of good in the world without saying anything specific and also the ones who bring up trivial things that don't even really count as nice. Like I said, that is just saying, "Look - I'm a good person!" The kind of attitude I loathe.

Wtf guys seriously talking about which family member you would save in a thread about nicest thing you've done for someone. Sacrificing either of your family members isn't the nicest thing you've done for someone surely lol The other one would be DEAD!