F2p prayer is unreasonable

[perfetc]

[hide=]

Personally, i think that F2P should receive no new content. There is one factor that makes me think this.

 

 

 

They.

 

Do.

 

Not.

 

Pay.

 

 

 

F2P should be happy with what they have ( no Maur im not attacking you, i completely understand how hard getting F2P 99 prayer must be.)

 

 

 

Actually they do pay, not out of there own pockets but they contribute 7% of all of jagex's earnings, which if they earn a million £'s in 1 year (which is a very very low estimate of what they earn) that is still £70,000 just off f2p.

 

 

 

 

Jagex works for you :lol: that has made my day ....

 

 

 

Technically Jagex DOES work for us. If not for us, then whom? They are paid to keep us entertained with new content.

 

 

 

So if you buy a dvd from HMV, they work for you? If you buy a car from Ford, they work for you? If you buy a microwave from comit, they work for you? You use some bodys internet to be on this website, do they work for you? So if I have all these people working for me how come I give them money? All other business's owners get money off people working for them. :?

 

 

 

We work for jagex if anything, product testing as it were :lol:

 

 

 

Langer, wall (that wasn't meant to be a smiley btw).

 

 

 

It was an awesome post being so on topic and such .... :lol:

 

 

 

I love the psychology bit aswell, totaly wrong but still well sone for trying. =D> Try a bit harder and I am sure you will get a gold star.

 

 

 

I could tell you the reason why my grammer is so poor but I have no reason to :D

 

 

 

The old saying the customer is always right, it is bollox. The customer is the shop or the suppliers little b****.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Honestly, please, look at what you are saying.

 

 

 

All other business's owners get money off people working for them. :?

 

 

 

Really? I thought they payed people for the labour they need to make a profit.

 

 

 

so if you buy a dvd from HMV, they work for you? If you buy a car from Ford, they work for you? If you buy a microwave from comit, they work for you?

 

 

 

Yes, they work FOR us in the sense they work to produce FOR us. I think you misunderstand, we don't mean that;

 

WE ARE THE CEO OF JAGEX AND THEY WORK FOR US

 

They work for us in the way that without us, they wouldn't exist. They work to produce items that we buy and therefore we own them. We could control an entire company if we decided,

 

 

 

"Penut butter sucks, nobody in the world buy peanut butter."

 

 

 

Kraft wouldn't continue to make Peanut butter, they would stop production. So technically we can control them, no?

 

 

 

And so forth we could decide,

 

 

 

"Nobody ever buy another Cadbury product."

 

 

 

They would go out of business like greased lightning ( or sonic on the way to the shops ).

 

 

 

No we don't.

 

 

 

You don't control 1 little tiny thing of anything to do with Ford, Jagex, Comit etc etc etc, your right that without US they wouldn't be in business but we cannot control what they do.

 

 

 

If jagex wanted to they could remove a skill at there whim we could complain and boycott runescape as much as you like but people will still play it so it would continue to be there.

 

 

 

That is the only thing WE as a collective control, you control nothing.

 

 

 

We don't own anything, we don't earn anything off any company, you can't fire or hire, you don't have any real say in what the company makes or produces.

 

 

 

You have to understand that, just cos we buy off them doesnt mean we own them, if we owned them we would earn money.

[langer]

You really have trouble understanding that concept...

 

 

 

We never said we OWN the company. We said they work for us, the paying costumer.

 

In every business, the employees work for their boss, but the bosses work for their costumers.

 

The bosses pay their employees while the costumers pay the bosses (or owners if it helps you understand the mechanics of business).

 

 

 

If Jagex removes a skill and 80% of their paying costumers boycott the game, let me assure you they would either re-instore it or add something to appease their consummers. Just like they did with trade limits and the G.E.

 

 

 

Once you get a job, you'll understand that the costumers are kings and while they can't control how a business is run or what it does, they can influence it enough to provoke a reaction that will be in the costumer's favor.

 

 

 

If every F2P were to boycott the game, I'm pretty sure it would not have that much effect on the revenue of Jagex. The real effect comes from what paying costumers think and how they vote with their cash.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

Please stop using that "relise" word.

 

Since you brought up spelling... It's CUSTOMER. I'm not entirely sure what a "costumer" is, to be honest. Furthermore, where you said Kindergarden, it is spelled Kindergarten and Consummer only has one M.

 

 

 

But on a more relevant topic, this was properly placed in the Rants forum because it was just venting in-game frustrations. It is not a true suggestion, the bury-x idea was to follow the ranting rules. But it truly is a good idea. It could be RE-posted in the suggestions board, but it was originally intended to be just a rant.

 

 

 

If every F2P were to boycott the game, I'm pretty sure it would not have that much effect on the revenue of Jagex. The real effect comes from what paying customers think and how they vote with their cash.

 

That all depends on how you mean it. Are new F2Pers allowed to come in to the game still? Or are we saying nobody ever joins F2P again?

[langer]

Thank you for pointing out my spelling errors, english is my second language and I hope I won't make those mistakes again.

 

 

 

This was properly put in the rants forum but would have a bigger impact on the suggestion forum though. I also think it is truly a good idea for F2P, but not for paying customers as we already have that feature in-game.

 

 

 

What I mean about the boycott is that if every F2Pers stop playing today, it would not have a big effect of the treasury of Jagex. Sure they would wonder why and start feeling uneasy because their "future" customers are not there anymore.

 

 

 

While if every P2Pers stopped playing and paying (that's the real motive here, the money) you could bet on it that Jagex would react pretty swiftly.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

Thank you for pointing out my spelling errors, english is my second language and I hope I won't make those mistakes again.

 

 

 

This was properly put in the rants forum but would have a bigger impact on the suggestion forum though. I also think it is truly a good idea for F2P, but not for paying customers as we already have that feature in-game.

 

 

 

What I mean about the boycott is that if every F2Pers stop playing today, it would not have a big effect of the treasury of Jagex. Sure they would wonder why and start feeling uneasy because their "future" customers are not there anymore.

 

 

 

While if every P2Pers stopped playing and paying (that's the real motive here, the money) you could bet on it that Jagex would react pretty swiftly.

 

I agree it would have a nice impact in suggestions, and I would definitely show my support for it there, as well. It isn't a necessity, but rather a convenience.

 

 

 

About the boycott, again, it depends on whether or not people still sign up for the free game afterward as to whether or not Jagex would take action. Let's look at it from both angles, making a few assumptions about humans in general:

 

 

 

Obviously unless the F2P worlds were closed off, people would still join, but assuming they don't for a moment. All of a sudden, there are only a small fraction of the current population still playing. They have large quantities of servers making no money, costing them lots, slowly their current members get bored and retire their accounts. All in all, the game dies a slow and painful death.

 

 

 

Now, let us say new people DO join. They start getting people back, but they lost millions. How many more people out there would be interested in a browser-based game that has that many empty servers?

[langer]

Ohhh I get where we misunderstand each other. I was assuming Jagex would dispose of empty servers thus eliminating the cost of maintaining them. From what I understand, the revenue from ads compensate for the cost of these servers, while either providing a slight profit or a slight loss (that is attributed to publicity, in terms of accounting and business strategy).

 

 

 

I agree that if there is a boycott and no one joins the game as F2P, that would mean a slowly death for the game. I'm pretty sure that's not what Jagex intend. What I mean is that on the short term, a boycott from paying customers is way more painful (assuming they end their membership).

 

 

 

As for the millions lost from having empty servers, I'm also pretty sure Jagex has some competent accountants to raise the flags when they are losing too much money and dispose of the unefficient cost.

 

 

 

That said, I agree with you with everything but the support for this idea. I would need more convincing from a member's point of view (incentive). Ohhh by the way, if they had implemented this at the same time they did offer-x and worship-x, I would have been to happy about my update to rant about this! There you go ammunitions to debate against me.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

I, too, would assume they eventually remove the servers. But that still doesn't take into consideration the fact that most people wouldn't go straight into paying for a browser-based game. But if they didn't they would lose because the ads wouldn't show and therefore wouldn't pay. Short-term, P2P boycott would have a greater impact, I agree. But long-term is the only thing that truly matters. In that sense, they are about equal.

 

 

 

But I would really like to see some solid reasoning NOT to implement this idea. As long as it doesn't change anything but the number of clicks, it is not really a benefit, after all. Especially if it slows the experience. Make it a right-click-only option and it wouldn't have an effect on a normal player who doesn't want to use it.

[langer]

Well my whole argumentation is that this feature would provide benefits only to non members. As members, we already have this feature available to us. I agree with you that it's not a game changer and would not affect members much. What I argue about is that I'm paying Jagex for services and I want them to work on features that benefit me (aka members) , not those who enjoy the free game.

 

 

 

I've been labeled a selfish idiot member on this thread for wanting to get my dollars worth from Jagex. How would you feel if you went to the theaters to watch a movie hat you pay for it. But everyone who has sen the trailers to it can get inside for free because "hey it's not because they saw the preview for free they could not see the whole for free too". It's a bad analogy, but like I said on the Why can' F2P have thread, seeing all the demands from F2Pers gives me the impression that they want P2P (but better!) without paying for it. This is a blantant generalisation, but it shows you how this can be interpreted.

[perfetc]

Well my whole argumentation is that this feature would provide benefits only to non members. As members, we already have this feature available to us. I agree with you that it's not a game changer and would not affect members much. What I argue about is that I'm paying Jagex for services and I want them to work on features that benefit me (aka members) , not those who enjoy the free game.

 

 

 

I've been labeled a selfish idiot member on this thread for wanting to get my dollars worth from Jagex. How would you feel if you went to the theaters to watch a movie hat you pay for it. But everyone who has sen the trailers to it can get inside for free because "hey it's not because they saw the preview for free they could not see the whole for free too". It's a bad analogy, but like I said on the Why can' F2P have thread, seeing all the demands from F2Pers gives me the impression that they want P2P (but better!) without paying for it. This is a blantant generalisation, but it shows you how this can be interpreted.

 

 

 

Woah woah woah, I never called you an idiot.

 

 

 

You don't think your getting your moneys worth! :shock: :o

 

 

 

You change your analogy so they can only see the top right 30 inches of the cinema screen, then it would be a bit more accurate.

 

 

 

Of course they want f2p with all members content and whole shed load more! Who doesn't?

 

 

 

If you can get every members content that exist now and will exist in the future for free would you pay for it? Of course you wouldn't but it doesn't hurt to ask, it may be annoying though.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

I would fully agree if this was asking for a major update, however this would not take long at all, assuming they based it on other __-x functions already in the game. Also, it would provide a benefit to members as well, even if it is a much smaller one. There are situations where P2Pers would use this. But I agree with others that not every update has to benefit P2P. We've had several updates that have been beneficial only to F2P in the past and after the initial rantings, nobody cared.

 

 

 

And this one would likely come as an "In other news" post in a major members update, much like most F2P updates, probably because fewer people will rant about it if they hide it within the news post.

[langer]

Woah woah woah, I never called you an idiot.

 

 

 

You don't think your getting your moneys worth!

 

 

 

You change your analogy so they can only see the top right 30 inches of the cinema screen, then it would be a bit more accurate.

 

 

 

Of course they want f2p with all members content and whole shed load more! Who doesn't?

 

 

 

If you can get every members content that exist now and will exist in the future for free would you pay for it? Of course you wouldn't but it doesn't hurt to ask, it may be annoying though.

 

 

 

Yes I know, it was Quelmotz who called me, and others of course, a greedy selfish hording member. Oh I think I'm getting my money's worth, if I wasn't I wouldn't pay. I wanna make sure I still get my money's worth in the future too.

 

Yeah my analogy was pretty bad, I admit.

 

Of course I wouldn't pay for members content if I didn't have too, I'd be either foolish or either way too generous!

 

F2Pers can ask for updates all they want, they'll always find a member like me to tell them to either pay up or keep dreaming. I'll never tell them to shut up, even though I mentionned earlier that a free game should be rant-free because you are not entitled to rant when you don't pay, but you are entitled to suggest though.

[perfetc]

I still think there is something you are not getting though.

 

 

 

F2p don't pay out of there pockets but they do help with running costs, I worked out before that if jagex earn £1 million a year then f2p contribute £70,000 of that. (my maths skills suck aswell so that could be wrong :lol: ).

 

 

 

Of course jagex earns more than £1 million, so at a guess say they earn £5 million a year that would mean f2p contributes £350,000.

 

 

 

I know £350k out of £1 million isn't alot but I bet it is more than enough to keep the servers running.

[langer]

I know the ads cover some part of the cost, but I have no idea how much though. Your guess is as good as mine on this subject.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

I know the ads cover some part of the cost, but I have no idea how much though. Your guess is as good as mine on this subject.

 

I don't remember where or when, but Jagex has said that ads DO cover the costs of F2P, but I don't know what kind of money is left over from it.

[perfetc]

 

 

 

Need I say more? :

[unkn0wnwarrior]

Now compare it to costs and see if there is any leftover cash from that ad revenue and we'll see if we indirectly pay for a few extra updates. Unfortunately, I don't know I've ever seen a graph for their costs.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

 

 

 

Need I say more? :

 

 

 

in 2001 there was no members. How did they gain income from game time sales?

[perfetc]

I don't know, maybe you got there dates mixed cos as you can see that is from mechscape so it must be true, musn't it? :?

[langer]

Now compare it to costs and see if there is any leftover cash from that ad revenue and we'll see if we indirectly pay for a few extra updates. Unfortunately, I don't know I've ever seen a graph for their costs.

 

 

 

And you probably never will... Last I heard, Jagex is a private corporation and are not required to show their financial reports.

[langer]

 

 

 

Need I say more? :

 

 

 

well this shows where they are getting their money. This doesn't show if they are making a profit from F2P servers.

[perfetc]

Probably enough to maintain the servers and thats it.

 

 

 

So as you can see f2p still brings in alot of money, compared to p2p it is nothing but atleast £70k is a fair bit of money.

[Tim_Tam_Tan_Tien]

Probably enough to maintain the servers and thats it.

 

 

 

So as you can see f2p still brings in alot of money, compared to p2p it is nothing but atleast £70k is a fair bit of money.

 

 

 

Jagex wipes their [wagon] with $70,000. They are a multi-million dollar company, if they decided to cut F2P they would still be able to afford the running costs if they just put adds into P2P.

 

 

 

OT ( for once) : 'Bury X' is all those f2p'ers whining about carpal tunnel. You want better prayer training? Well heres an idea,

 

 

 

PAY THE MONEY LIKE THE REST OF US.

 

 

 

Furthermore, why dont we give firemakers Burn X? Surely that'd make things alot easier for everyone? And how about 'Pickpocket X', to keep the thieves happy.

[perfetc]

Probably enough to maintain the servers and thats it.

 

 

 

So as you can see f2p still brings in alot of money, compared to p2p it is nothing but atleast £70k is a fair bit of money.

 

 

 

Jagex wipes their [wagon] with $70,000. They are a multi-million dollar company, if they decided to cut F2P they would still be able to afford the running costs if they just put adds into P2P.

 

 

 

OT ( for once) : 'Bury X' is all those f2p'ers whining about carpal tunnel. You want better prayer training? Well heres an idea,

 

 

 

PAY THE MONEY LIKE THE REST OF US.

 

 

 

Furthermore, why dont we give firemakers Burn X? Surely that'd make things alot easier for everyone? And how about 'Pickpocket X', to keep the thieves happy.

 

 

 

I hope there not a multi-million dollar company! They would have a really hard time spending that in England.

 

 

 

I am not a drooling idiot, I know 7% isn't a large contribution but if some body said to me do you want £70k I wouldn't say no, every little helps!

 

 

 

Do you have another single, I have heard the "pay like the rest of us" single WAY to much.

 

 

 

I can guarantee every time any body says f2p should get an update atleast 1 person will play this single (see how I kept the metaphor going?) called "pay like the rest of us".

 

 

 

If was up to these people there would never be a f2p update which after awhile would mean no new members then no game, f2p has to be updated so would you rather have a tiny update like this or an entire skill. (doesn't matter either way cos it isn't your choice)

[Sonew27]

I'd like to see members survive one week without freeplay servers. See how you guys stack up against changes in the economy. Some things like yews would skyrocket cause there aren't as many people cutting them anymore. There's probably more examples, but my mind is buzzing on me.

 

 

 

And you said since you pay, they should update in your favor. Well if they make money off freeplay, don't you think its only fair that they'd use some of the funds from that area toward something that could benefit freeplayers? And even if there wasn't profit from freeplay sever ads, don't you think that if they can pay a team of people to create/update a pub, that they could afford something, to help out freeplay?

 

 

 

One more thing, can you mention some of the freeplay updates for us in 2009 other than the PvP features? (Not to be an assh*le, but just cause to reiterate them for me quickly).

 

 

 

And lastly, even though we don't pay, we deserve to be able to rant. If someone allows others to play for free, the players can criticize that game if they want to. People rant about CrossFire all the time cause it's so repetitive, if they can do that for CF, people bored of RS can do the same. Right, you can say, "Oh, you want more, pay for it". I hate saying that MMG called F2p a game of its own, but if it is like that, then players do deserve to rant.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

Probably enough to maintain the servers and thats it.

 

 

 

So as you can see f2p still brings in alot of money, compared to p2p it is nothing but atleast £70k is a fair bit of money.

 

That is 70K for every 1M, and you know they make more than 1M in just 1 month. But even so, say they make 1M a month. That is 70k per month, which is 840k a year. Almost a million a year from F2P alone using those numbers.