Genesis and The Big Bang

[gorgoroth]

Dude, you're still probably in 8th grade.

You say this as if it matters.

 

Stop tryin to act all big and bad.

I see. And how would you reccomend going about this?

 

When you're simply a depository of pseudo knowledge handed down through the generations of mindless babble on stupid news programs.

Whoah man, like you said, I'm only in the 8th grade, you should probably dumb that down a bit.

 

Then, you spew them out in a diatribe masked as science against religion, calling Christians and the like bigots; when in all reality you're a bigot as well. A closet one at best.

When did I say that?

 

When I was your age was I try in argue about God? Yea. Did I do very well? No. And son, you're not doing any better.

Sorry.

 

Insulting someone's usage of time in what to them is a very revere act simply shows your immaturity.

I was making a point. He said he was living his life to the fullest. I pointed out that he spends several hours each week in a Church, when he could be curing cancer or something like that.

 

Though I guess I'm immature as well for even posting on a Does God Exist topic. Because we all know, no one here will ever have their mind changed by what someone posts. So there's no point.

Then leave?

I promised myself i would not do this, but i just can't stop myself. Haha Rocco you just totally proved Saruman right about the fact that you are immature. You're making a complete fool out of yourself :thumbup:

Jesus loves you bro!

I take pride in my immaturity. Allows me to dissassociate myself from the average TIFer.

Oh no, quite the oppisite. It makes you part of the majority. Just another sheep in the herd.

Baahh

Don't you think making animal noises is a litte bit... immature?

And no, it does not make me the majority of TIFers. Most TIFers are in late high school or uni.

Cool story bro :thumbup:

[Lateralus]

Whoa, I DEFINITELY did not say that. I said that God created the universe in such a way that we can attempt to explain it without Him. Please do not shove words into my mouth.

 

Alright, that's my mistake. I won't be written off as someone who would misrepresent an argument, so I apologise for misreading. My point stands, however. A god of the gaps argument just doesn't fly. If god can't be disproven, then he can't be proven to exist either - Falsifiability is key.

 

As for faith, I think you are defining it wrong. Faith is not a blind belief in something. Faith is actually just trust, and your faith is only as worthy as what you're putting that faith into.

 

Trust stemming from what? Why believe what you believe other than because it feels right? If someone wants to believe in god because it feels right to them - fine, that is absolutely their right. The problem is that people don't just say that this is the case and instead try to pervert science to give themselves some credibility.

 

As for the quote, it's a juvenille analogy at best, and it fails to mention that sometimes chairs break when you sit in them.

 

*snip*

 

My, my. I'm sorry - You'll really need to read something about the development of humans as a species. The questions you're asking are extremely rudimentary and they just show a complete lack of understanding on your side. As for this...

 

One day i will have my heaven and you will have your eternal damnation.

 

... This is a disgusting thing to read, and if revelling in the thought of someone being consigned to eternal damnation is the moral standard your church sets then it is disgusting too.

[gorgoroth]

Whoa, I DEFINITELY did not say that. I said that God created the universe in such a way that we can attempt to explain it without Him. Please do not shove words into my mouth.

 

Alright, that's my mistake. I won't be written off as someone who would misrepresent an argument, so I apologise for misreading. My point stands, however. A god of the gaps argument just doesn't fly. If god can't be disproven, then he can't be proven to exist either - Falsifiability is key.

 

As for faith, I think you are defining it wrong. Faith is not a blind belief in something. Faith is actually just trust, and your faith is only as worthy as what you're putting that faith into.

 

Trust stemming from what? Why believe what you believe other than because it feels right? If someone wants to believe in god because it feels right to them - fine, that is absolutely their right. The problem is that people don't just say that this is the case and instead try to pervert science to give themselves some credibility.

 

As for the quote, it's a juvenille analogy at best, and it fails to mention that sometimes chairs break when you sit in them.

 

*snip*

 

My, my. I'm sorry - You'll really need to read something about the development of humans as a species. The questions you're asking are extremely rudimentary and they just show a complete lack of understanding on your side. As for this...

 

One day i will have my heaven and you will have your eternal damnation.

 

... This is a disgusting thing to read, and if revelling in the thought of someone being consigned to eternal damnation is the moral standard your church sets then it is disgusting too.

I think my questions are very valid. Maybe you just don't have the right answers?

And my Bible knowledge isnt 100% this time of the night so i won't be able to give you a quote but i will however be able to give a summary of what is said: The only way into heaven is through God Himself.

I am guuessing this means that without religion eternal damnation awaits. Its not just my church, its my religion. BUT, it also says God i just. So who am i to say that just because you're not christian you go to hell? Typical example: What happens to a new born that dies? It never knew anything about God or the world. Does it go to heaven? Does it go to hell?

Sure, my words were rude, disrespectfull, stupid and harsh, but as i said its all because of pride. No one wants to be wrong. If anyone was offended by that then i am sorry.

[Saru Inc]

Dude, you're still probably in 8th grade.

You say this as if it matters.

 

Stop tryin to act all big and bad.

I see. And how would you reccomend going about this?

 

When you're simply a depository of pseudo knowledge handed down through the generations of mindless babble on stupid news programs.

Whoah man, like you said, I'm only in the 8th grade, you should probably dumb that down a bit.

 

Then, you spew them out in a diatribe masked as science against religion, calling Christians and the like bigots; when in all reality you're a bigot as well. A closet one at best.

When did I say that?

 

When I was your age was I try in argue about God? Yea. Did I do very well? No. And son, you're not doing any better.

Sorry.

 

Insulting someone's usage of time in what to them is a very revere act simply shows your immaturity.

I was making a point. He said he was living his life to the fullest. I pointed out that he spends several hours each week in a Church, when he could be curing cancer or something like that.

 

Though I guess I'm immature as well for even posting on a Does God Exist topic. Because we all know, no one here will ever have their mind changed by what someone posts. So there's no point.

Then leave?

I promised myself i would not do this, but i just can't stop myself. Haha Rocco you just totally proved Saruman right about the fact that you are immature. You're making a complete fool out of yourself :thumbup:

Jesus loves you bro!

I take pride in my immaturity. Allows me to dissassociate myself from the average TIFer.

Oh no, quite the oppisite. It makes you part of the majority. Just another sheep in the herd.

Baahh

Don't you think making animal noises is a litte bit... immature?

And no, it does not make me the majority of TIFers. Most TIFers are in late high school or uni.

 

 

Thats not what immaturity is. Thats a different type.

[Lateralus]

I think my questions are very valid. Maybe you just don't have the right answers?

And my Bible knowledge isnt 100% this time of the night so i won't be able to give you a quote but i will however be able to give a summary of what is said: The only way into heaven is through God Himself.

I am guuessing this means that without religion eternal damnation awaits. Its not just my church, its my religion. BUT, it also says God i just. So who am i to say that just because you're not christian you go to hell? Typical example: What happens to a new born that dies? It never knew anything about God or the world. Does it go to heaven? Does it go to hell?

Sure, my words were rude, disrespectfull, stupid and harsh, but as i said its all because of pride. No one wants to be wrong. If anyone was offended by that then i am sorry.

 

Read some anthropology and biology textbooks - I assure you, your questions have answers. Even if they did not, do you think it's acceptable to say "I don't understand this, so this supports my position!"? Of course it's not acceptable - Don't do it.

 

I know what the Bible says, and so I know that it says that I am to be damned for all eternity. I find the suggestion insulting because the authority on which it is based is highly questionable. I might think you are wrong, but I am without the luxury of divine assurance.

[gorgoroth]

I think my questions are very valid. Maybe you just don't have the right answers?

And my Bible knowledge isnt 100% this time of the night so i won't be able to give you a quote but i will however be able to give a summary of what is said: The only way into heaven is through God Himself.

I am guuessing this means that without religion eternal damnation awaits. Its not just my church, its my religion. BUT, it also says God i just. So who am i to say that just because you're not christian you go to hell? Typical example: What happens to a new born that dies? It never knew anything about God or the world. Does it go to heaven? Does it go to hell?

Sure, my words were rude, disrespectfull, stupid and harsh, but as i said its all because of pride. No one wants to be wrong. If anyone was offended by that then i am sorry.

 

Read some anthropology and biology textbooks - I assure you, your questions have answers. Even if they did not, do you think it's acceptable to say "I don't understand this, so this supports my position!"? Of course it's not acceptable - Don't do it.

 

I know what the Bible says, and so I know that it says that I am to be damned for all eternity. I find the suggestion insulting because the authority on which it is based is highly questionable. I might think you are wrong, but I am without the luxury of divine assurance.

I had to take anthroplogy as an extra subject last year for pshycholocy. Not really anything that caught my eye. Very boring subject for me. Therefor i am not going to try disprove your point.

 

I know what the Bible says, and so I know that it says that I am to be damned for all eternity. I find the suggestion insulting because the authority on which it is based is highly questionable. I might think you are wrong, but I am without the luxury of divine assurance.

Also, my religion teaches me that it is the way, the truth, the only way of being saved. Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

[Lateralus]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

[Saru Inc]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

 

 

Says you. ;)

[gorgoroth]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

Hah, i'm making it sound like Christianity is a sham.

as a last thought i would like to add this: Even though i admit that christianity has its flaws (be it because of my lack in understanding or because some of it just doesn't add up), it is not the only theory or religion with flaws. Islam is a religion full of flaws (i have witnessed the islam religion first hand, and i still am), Athiesm has its flaws and so does the Big Bang theory and Judaism (sp?). So like i said, it might have its flaws but its that bed time story i call a Bible that has helped me though hell and back.

[Wisp]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

Hah, i'm making it sound like Christianity is a sham.

as a last thought i would like to add this: Even though i admit that christianity has its flaws (be it because of my lack in understanding or because some of it just doesn't add up), it is not the only theory or religion with flaws. Islam is a religion full of flaws (i have witnessed the islam religion first hand, and i still am), Athiesm has its flaws and so does the Big Bang theory and Judaism (sp?). So like i said, it might have its flaws but its that bed time story i call a Bible that has helped me though hell and back.

 

Name one flaw or contradiction in atheism.

[Jeffwilson99]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

 

 

As Lateralus has pointed out, all your reasoning is laced with fallacies.

[gorgoroth]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

Hah, i'm making it sound like Christianity is a sham.

as a last thought i would like to add this: Even though i admit that christianity has its flaws (be it because of my lack in understanding or because some of it just doesn't add up), it is not the only theory or religion with flaws. Islam is a religion full of flaws (i have witnessed the islam religion first hand, and i still am), Athiesm has its flaws and so does the Big Bang theory and Judaism (sp?). So like i said, it might have its flaws but its that bed time story i call a Bible that has helped me though hell and back.

 

Name one flaw or contradiction in atheism.

Well, Athiests believe in no God therefor they should not be bothered by any religion nor any God yet they always seem to find a way to convince everyone (and themselve it seems) that there is no such thing as a God. This i see as one of the most common flaws. Why try and PROVE there is no God when you really know/believe nothing about God('s) of any form...

[gorgoroth]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

Hah, i'm making it sound like Christianity is a sham.

as a last thought i would like to add this: Even though i admit that christianity has its flaws (be it because of my lack in understanding or because some of it just doesn't add up), it is not the only theory or religion with flaws. Islam is a religion full of flaws (i have witnessed the islam religion first hand, and i still am), Athiesm has its flaws and so does the Big Bang theory and Judaism (sp?). So like i said, it might have its flaws but its that bed time story i call a Bible that has helped me though hell and back.

 

Name one flaw or contradiction in atheism.

I'd also be interested in hearing your flaw in the Big bang.

As a Christian that is the worst possible question you could have asked me. All of my answers whould be religion based which to you will seem unaplicable. So i will not jusdtify your question with an answer.

 

EDIT: Its not that i WONT but rather that i WONT BE ABLE to.

[gorgoroth]

Sure, you might think that what i say is based on an old book writen by men many years ago but i can assure you that from personal experience, things that have happened to me in my life, have taught me that there must be some sort of God. This obviously puts me in the state of mind that i am right, you are wrong. Sure, it is flawed in many ways but being human like all the rest of you i close my eyes and look past the flaws. I don't want to have the slightest thought of God being fake to enter my mind. Not after all He has done for me.

 

I think we can draw a line under this. It's not interesting anymore.

Hah, i'm making it sound like Christianity is a sham.

as a last thought i would like to add this: Even though i admit that christianity has its flaws (be it because of my lack in understanding or because some of it just doesn't add up), it is not the only theory or religion with flaws. Islam is a religion full of flaws (i have witnessed the islam religion first hand, and i still am), Athiesm has its flaws and so does the Big Bang theory and Judaism (sp?). So like i said, it might have its flaws but its that bed time story i call a Bible that has helped me though hell and back.

 

Name one flaw or contradiction in atheism.

Well, Athiests believe in no God therefor they should not be bothered by any religion nor any God yet they always seem to find a way to convince everyone (and themselve it seems) that there is no such thing as a God. This i see as one of the most common flaws. Why try and PROVE there is no God when you really know/believe nothing about God('s) of any form...

The problem there is that certain people tend to try and convince atheists that there is a God, thus that "flaw" is nullified.

True, and so does the Muslims tell their followers that each and every other religion is false. Believe me i can tell you some funny stories about what they Msulim preachers preach about. And i am sure its the same with the Jews. They also try and convince others that their religion is pure. Like i said each religion has flaws.

As a side note, i believe that Islam is the most forcefull when it comes to convincing.

[Wisp]

That's not a flaw.

Is there any part of atheism that says "thou shalt not debate" No. Because there is no official text.

[gorgoroth]

That's not a flaw.

Is there any part of atheism that says "thou shalt not debate" No. Because there is no official text.

Ofcourse there isnt any official text. Nothing about Athiesm really is official. Its the "do what ever you want" religion. It has no boundies, no rights and no wrongs. That, in my opinion is a flaw. No rules cause people to run amuck (i know its not the right spelling but you know what i mean :P). And i'm sure you know what i mean by this statement?

[gorgoroth]

That's not a flaw.

Is there any part of atheism that says "thou shalt not debate" No. Because there is no official text.

Ofcourse there isnt any official text. Nothing about Athiesm really is official. Its the "do what ever you want" religion. It has no boundies, no rights and no wrongs. That, in my opinion is a flaw. No rules cause people to run amuck (i know its not the right spelling but you know what i mean :P). And i'm sure you know what i mean by this statement?

That isn't true at all. Atheists don't murder or steal any more than Christians do.

No they don't. But please do remember that saying you are a Christian does not mean you ARE one. A true Christian would never murder, unless it is required for the sake of his life. I'm sure you know what i mean when i say there are alot of false prophets. Christians who murder, rape and steal are a great example of false prophets.

[Jeffwilson99]

That's not a flaw.

Is there any part of atheism that says "thou shalt not debate" No. Because there is no official text.

Ofcourse there isnt any official text. Nothing about Athiesm really is official. Its the "do what ever you want" religion. It has no boundies, no rights and no wrongs. That, in my opinion is a flaw. No rules cause people to run amuck (i know its not the right spelling but you know what i mean :P). And i'm sure you know what i mean by this statement?

 

Aethism is not a religion.

[gorgoroth]

That's not a flaw.

Is there any part of atheism that says "thou shalt not debate" No. Because there is no official text.

Ofcourse there isnt any official text. Nothing about Athiesm really is official. Its the "do what ever you want" religion. It has no boundies, no rights and no wrongs. That, in my opinion is a flaw. No rules cause people to run amuck (i know its not the right spelling but you know what i mean :P). And i'm sure you know what i mean by this statement?

 

Aethism is not a religion.

Way of life, if you like.

[warri0r45]

That's not a flaw.

Is there any part of atheism that says "thou shalt not debate" No. Because there is no official text.

Ofcourse there isnt any official text. Nothing about Athiesm really is official. Its the "do what ever you want" religion. It has no boundies, no rights and no wrongs. That, in my opinion is a flaw. No rules cause people to run amuck (i know its not the right spelling but you know what i mean :P). And i'm sure you know what i mean by this statement?

That isn't true at all. Atheists don't murder or steal any more than Christians do.

 

And "do whatever you want" isn't a part of atheism. What some people need to understand here is that atheism is a lack of belief in a god/s, and nothing more (there's also the belief that god/s don't exist, but it's less common). There are no rules, no do's or donts, no rights or wrongs.

 

However, this doesn't mean atheists will automatically run around killing people or doing other horrible things. Firstly, we have to law to worry about (well, "worry" perhaps isn't the best word to use - in many cases I think the laws we must abide by are entirely justified). Second, there seems to be this biological barrier to murder, stealing, or other commonly accepted wrongs. I liken it to a disgust reaction and would argue it could be an evolutionary adaptation to surviving (and flourishing) as a social species.

 

Trust me gorgoroth, you dont have anything to worry about with atheists. Most of the time we just want to live our lives in peace like everyone else.

[ElkNight]

There is actually a higher ratio of Christians in jail to Christians then Atheists in jail to Atheists. So that argument is complete bs.

[gorgoroth]

That's not a flaw.

Is there any part of atheism that says "thou shalt not debate" No. Because there is no official text.

Ofcourse there isnt any official text. Nothing about Athiesm really is official. Its the "do what ever you want" religion. It has no boundies, no rights and no wrongs. That, in my opinion is a flaw. No rules cause people to run amuck (i know its not the right spelling but you know what i mean :P). And i'm sure you know what i mean by this statement?

That isn't true at all. Atheists don't murder or steal any more than Christians do.

 

And "do whatever you want" isn't a part of atheism. What some people need to understand here is that atheism is a lack of belief in a god/s, and nothing more (there's also the belief that god/s don't exist, but it's less common). There are no rules, no do's or donts, no rights or wrongs.

 

However, this doesn't mean atheists will automatically run around killing people or doing other horrible things. Firstly, we have to law to worry about (well, "worry" perhaps isn't the best word to use - in many cases I think the laws we must abide by are entirely justified). Second, there seems to be this biological barrier to murder, stealing, or other commonly accepted wrongs. I liken it to a disgust reaction and would argue it could be an evolutionary adaptation to surviving (and flourishing) as a social species.

 

Trust me gorgoroth, you dont have anything to worry about with atheists. Most of the time we just want to live our lives in peace like everyone else.

Hah, i think you might have misunderstood me with the "do ehwhatever you like" part. I'm not saying you are gonna go around killing, stealing, etc. Im just saying that if you wanted too you had no religion to stop you. Also by "doing what you want" i refer more to drinking, smoking, having sexual relations...things like that.

[gorgoroth]

There is actually a higher ratio of Christians in jail to Christians then Atheists in jail to Atheists. So that argument is complete bs.

Like i said, false prophets. Its like wearing a Slayer shirt when all toghether you really hate Metal.

[ElkNight]

 

Hah, i think you might have misunderstood me with the "do ehwhatever you like" part. I'm not saying you are gonna go around killing, stealing, etc. Im just saying that if you wanted too you had no religion to stop you. Also by "doing what you want" i refer more to drinking, smoking, having sexual relations...things like that.

Religion doesn't stop millions of Christians (and people of other religions) from doing those things. If religion is the only thing stopping you from doing those thing anyway, you are messed up.

[gorgoroth]

 

Hah, i think you might have misunderstood me with the "do ehwhatever you like" part. I'm not saying you are gonna go around killing, stealing, etc. Im just saying that if you wanted too you had no religion to stop you. Also by "doing what you want" i refer more to drinking, smoking, having sexual relations...things like that.

Religion doesn't stop millions of Christians (and people of other religions) from doing those things. If religion is the only thing stopping you from doing those thing anyway, you are messed up.

In some ways it does. As a christian i am not allowed to do anything that may change my body. Therefor drinking which affects my liver and Smoking which affects my lungs are a no no. Also pre-maritial sex is another no no. I'm still trying to figure out exactly why though.

 

EDIT: I can assure you that in no way am i messed up. I have done everything i am not supposed to and i do them no longer. Why? In some ways its out of respect for my God and in other ways just because i dont enjoy them. Nothing messed up about that.