Hegemony Argument Thread

[a_bert]

This isn't Hegemony, this is Empire.

 

IF there is a desire for an expansist game other than PVP, then we will play that, but PVP will be encouraged to the point of almost forcing it, because otherwise there just won't be enough interest outside the game to cause people to come and keep it alive.

[Seraphi]

Not 6 planets, 6 systems. Although 9-10 would be ideal, I can settle for six.

 

I guess that means ROAARGH.

[a_bert]

This might suit:

 

If your empire is on the brink of destruction, but the game is still alive and kicking, you get placed under UN protection [invulnerable] for however long at a cost of half your yearly income?

 

This means there is PVP, but it's not game ending. You can fight, and then if you lose you can still rebuild, though you're still gimped because you deserve to be, you lost.

 

No mollycoddling.

[Retech]

That's not even my issue with it. You get destroyed, and you lose. Having only a few systems and forcing PvP just makes the game shallow. It's much more interesting when people go to war because they have a reason to, like the war between Doom and the Britannean empire over Russia.

[a_bert]

So.. making people go to war.. over resources.. is not a real reason?

[Retech]

When you design it as a game mechanic, and there's nothing else to do but sit there or fight, then it isn't a real reason.

 

 

If you can imagine it, making it entirely based on Earth with no space travel would make it more immersive (not that I want that, I'd prefer we start out small on our planets and expand outwards). At least with Earth you have hundreds of countries you could fight over, but in this game, space superiority is the only thing that matters, so each planet counts as one entity, while each country counts as one entity to fight over.

[a_bert]

The whole point of this game is space superiority. We've had 2 Hegemonys on Earth. The first went into space and I don't know what happened next cause everyone was talking [cabbage] constantly, the second [bleep]ed up because you lost all your marbles.

 

Why do you think we wanted Russia? For it's *resources*. For the added power it'd give us. If we didn't fight for it, we'd fall even further behind. How is that ANY different at all to fighting for these planets?

[Retech]

The space superiority is not an issue. It's that the space we have (10 systems?) might as well be smaller than Earth because there's no way to control half a planet or a whole planet, it's just one object. That's the thing about space.

 

For the second Hegemony, of course I launched my superweapons. That's what happens when they use superweapons on you and you're losing. That's the point of superweapons (hence why I tried banning them from the start).

[a_bert]

I fail to see how it might as well be smaller than Earth.

 

1) It takes longer to get from one side of space to the other than it does to get from Japan to Europe.

2) After about a fortnight of Hegemony, there are at most 15+ countries left anyway.

3) You have to take specific routes rather than just assuming your troops can get somewhere, unlike in ye olde Hegemony.

 

The point of superweapons is to discourage an attack on you, not kill 90% of the worlds population. But we're not here to argue about that.

[Retech]

I fail to see how it might as well be smaller than Earth.

 

1) It takes longer to get from one side of space to the other than it does to get from Japan to Europe.

2) After about a fortnight of Hegemony, there are at most 15+ countries left anyway.

3) You have to take specific routes rather than just assuming your troops can get somewhere, unlike in ye olde Hegemony.

 

The point of superweapons is to discourage an attack on you, not kill 90% of the worlds population. But we're not here to argue about that.

 

Okay, in space Hegemony, you can just say "I am moving so and so fleet to this planet". Note that you don't say which side of the planet, just the planet, because the planet is one location. Comparatively, in Earth Hegemony, you have to say where you are moving (country), how you are moving there (countries or oceans), and where in the country you are moving into. In space Hegemony, your fleet blows up the enemy fleet. You win the planet (essentially). In Earth hegemony, your army defeats the enemy army, you control maybe half a country, and there are lots of countries.

 

Planets are one object

Countries are several objects

 

That's the nature of space, and it makes it surprisingly limited with only 20 or so planets.

 

 

 

That reminds me, I completely forgot I had bioweapons until I realize it was the very first project I started on.

[a_bert]

Having more systems does that change that at all, Retech.

[Retech]

I wasn't saying that the way space works is bad. I'm saying that we have only a limited objects to control, where it's an all or nothing affair. Having more systems would definitely change the number of objects there were.

[The_Mather1]

War for expensive resources = Good.

War for good land = Acceptable.

War for any land = Bad.

 

PvE = Good.

Voluntair PvP = OK.

Forced PvP = BAD!!!

 

Get it?

[Seraphi]

I think the obvious solution here would be to have more npc invasions and a larger map. Maybe 15-20 systems, max, about half of which are npc controlled.

 

That way, there is a fair mix of combat and expansion, and the game doesn't die so quickly.

[The_Mather1]

Maybe expand the map as we get on, this would allow for us to expand as our population grows and our techs wipe the floor with the first NPCs.

[a_bert]

Fact is, Empire/Hegemony is driven by PVP, even if it's not direct - if it's just an arms race.

 

Okay, this just popped into my head.

 

We start with the 6 systems plan. There are 4 (or more, if its needed) additional unexplored systems each guarded by an alien civilization, of varying strength, each giving equally strong resources. If you explore these systems, be prepared for a strong NPC defence. And of course, for the more potent warmongers among us to come third party in your battles.

 

I don't want people expanding all over the galaxy so it takes a month to hunt everyone down... That just gets old.

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

Heres an idea, to actually make a diffrence to a planet you need to stay on it for a certian time. Like real life.

 

Planet colonization is like the old hegemony (on earth) but you have to get at least 51% of the world to own it, otherwise you cannot send out ships or other bonuses.

 

That'll slow 'em down - :thumbsup:

[The Dark Lord]

We could also take an idea from my one of my RPG suggestions (the forgotten game that's basically Fallout) and set up something like two or three factions (empires) and allow a player to choose which empire that they want to join.

 

Just a suggestion.

[a_bert]

Nah, Sere, Hegemony has never been the same as an RPG such as 2025, dungeoneering etc..

 

Hex, the problem with that is it it means we have to work out more unit values.. unless it was merely who controlled the space that controlled the planet. If we did it like that, we could split these planets in half but it'd be ludicrous to assume two rival fleets would be hiding on the other side of the world from each other.

[Seraphi]

Not to mention that it'd take ages to take 51% of a planet. Or you could just abuse it and say "My people are really spread out"

[Wisp]

Can we put some limits on orbital bombardment, because I think land battles are more fun then space. On land, you have to use some strategy, in space you don't, it's basically just numbers.

 

Also, how about like in the hegemony's second thread, the first post is a giant knowledge base type thing, with maps. And since there are only a few systems, we have it organized from the start, including planetary maps.

[archimage_a]

Sounds like a plan, I can gen some planet maps if people want them....

[The Dark Lord]

I deleted both AstroSynthesis and Fractal World Explorer.

[a_bert]

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

 

Yeah, ok, it seems people want land battles so we'll have them.

 

Archi, those maps would be appreciated.

 

1 platoon = 10 population + 10,000of X, 7,500 of Y, 5,000 of Z.

Modules are Attack, Defence, Teamwork and Speed.

 

Attack is opposite of Defence.

Teamwork is opposite of speed.

 

e.g. Tier 1 attack = +3 attack, -1 defence.

Tier 1 speed = +3 speed, +1 teamwork

 

Platoon X has rating 11/3/5/5

Platoon Y has rating 5/5/3/11.

 

Maybe there can be 'types' of attack, Hit and Run(Speed*Attack), Broadside attack(Attack*Defence) and Ranged Attack(Speed*Defence).

 

Defending ships get Defence Tactics(Defence*Defence), Elastic Defence(Defence*Speed) and Hold the Line(Defence*Attack)

i.e. Hit and Run is strong versus hold the line, neutral versus defence tactics, and weak vs elastic defence? Strong = 2x multiplier, neutral = 1x, and weak = 0.5x?

 

Broadside attack is strong versus Elastic defence, neutral versus Hold the line, and weak versus Defence tactics.

Ranged attack is strong vs Defence Tactics, neutral to elastic defence, weak versus hold the line.

 

All calculations = (X*Y)/teamwork

 

Platoon X attack with Hit and Run and defend with Elastic defence.

Platoon Y attack with Ranged Attack and defend with Elastic defence.

 

Platoon X calculations = Speed*attack)(/teamwork) = 11*5/5 = 11.

= 3*5/5 = 3.

 

Platoon Y calculations = 5*11/6 = 9.16666667

= 5*11/6 = 9.16666667

 

(11*0.5)/9.16666667 = 59% in favour of Y. (Hit and Run is Weak to Elastic Defence)

9.16666667/3 = 63% in favour of Y.

 

Y wins both scenarios. Platoon X is destroyed.

 

Hope that made sense / I didn't make any mistakes. Back to my book. (Love you, Locke Lamora.)

 

EDIT: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU forgot to factor in that other thing. two secs.

[Seraphi]

Didn't read thouroughly, but it looks good.

 

I agree with Doom. Land battles are fun, since you need to work with terrain and weather and such. We just need to make sure there is a way to get troops onto the planet you'r invading. Drop pods wouldn't work, since the impact would reduce any human to the consistancy of chunky salsa. We could just abuse physics here and say that if their planetary defenses are lowered enough, you can send troops down using some wierd tech, but not all of them will make it (How many make it is dependant on the state of defenses)