Hegemony Argument Thread

[a_bert]

Okay, added effects to combat.

 

A roll between 1-4 weather affects each rating.. Clear sky = better attack, windy = better defence, rain = debuff to teamwork, snow = less speed.

 

for control of a planet (after colonization)

 

Fleet of team X attacks defence fleet of team Y.

X prevails, team Y sets up land defence.

X troops are dropped via landing craft/parachutes/whatever you want to hear so it makes sense to you on planet. Land battle ensues at place of X's discretion as they are landing.

land combat worked out

victor is awarded control of region of planet.

To control planet, 3 land battles must be won.

Team Y must defeat all land battles X puts forward to retain control of planet.

i.e. X wins 1 battle, they must then press on, if Y are victorious then they must defeat X again to remove them from planet.

Fleet X must retreat to repair after land battles if Y is victorious.

 

k?

[Wisp]

How about we set this as 50 years in the future of the second Hegemony, just storyline wise.

And I think we should just have land battles work like they did always, with a mod doing the work, and the people giving their troop movements. Also, I think people should have to figure out how to land their own troops. Drop pods would be possible with some way to slow them down, maybe nanofiber parachutes?

[The Dark Lord]

How about we set this as 50 years in the future of the second Hegemony, just storyline wise.

And I think we should just have land battles work like they did always, with a mod doing the work, and the people giving their troop movements. Also, I think people should have to figure out how to land their own troops. Drop pods would be possible with some way to slow them down, maybe nanofiber parachutes?

 

If we did that, the Earth would be part of the Terran Federation. Virtually everything would be part of the Terran Federation (unless you're playing as an alien race).

[Wisp]

I meant the most recent one.

And everyone seemed to forget that I existed at the end of that one. I still had the biggest fleet by far, it just wasn't anywhere near Earth.

[Seraphi]

Also, you can't move 100,000 troops from one side of the planet to the other in a year or something stupid. It just wouldn't work.

 

That way, invasion forces do actually have a chance, since at most you'll be able to carry in 25,000 troops with an average sized fleet.

[archimage_a]

We could blow up the Terran Federation...The Urk-Orz invade, destroy Dustopolis and Earth and, while it bands together to fight and defeat the Urk-Orz, it then breaks down into little Empires.

 

But I think Dungonal's one is going really well. The combat system looks really simplied.

[Wisp]

Also, you can't move 100,000 troops from one side of the planet to the other in a year or something stupid. It just wouldn't work.

 

That way, invasion forces do actually have a chance, since at most you'll be able to carry in 25,000 troops with an average sized fleet.

Well, moving 100k troops in a year isn't that hard, the US put 300k troops in Iraq in a short period of time.

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

Not to mention that it'd take ages to take 51% of a planet. Or you could just abuse it and say "My people are really spread out"

I suppose so but another system could be based on numbers?

 

Hex, the problem with that is it it means we have to work out more unit values.. unless it was merely who controlled the space that controlled the planet. If we did it like that, we could split these planets in half but it'd be ludicrous to assume two rival fleets would be hiding on the other side of the world from each other.

Other places could be spread out.

EIther way it'll still make a pretty fun game.

 

This combat system is too complicated, bear in mind that this is supposed to be game of fun, instead of a stupid combat system lets just use either logic or an easier system.

[Seraphi]

We already tried logic. It didn't work. It only worked since nobody was really interacting, and then eventually when they did interact everything fell into the fiery pits of confusion.

 

The moderator would be the only one required to use the combat system. We would feed troop statistics to them, and they'd work it out.

 

As long as the moderators are okay with it, the system works.

[archimage_a]

Kind of.

It sort of relies on the moderator having all of a system worked out beforehand though. Otherwise things go totally and completely wrong.

Also weapon strength, tactics, this and that all need to be worked out...and unless the moderator tells the other people there is no way for the other people to know how strong their units actually are....So they might attack thinking X when actually Y happens, and will keep happening.

 

Its also a strain on the Moderator, since it is 7-9 civilisations you are looking after, not just 1...which is all Dungeonal or I ever ask you lot to do.

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

Thats ok then, and are we supposed to work out the troop statistics?

Also are the mods doing expansion aswell?

 

How about suprise bonus!!

[a_bert]

This is using a new storyline. Use whatever culture you want. Earth will not be stronger or weaker or have any advantage or disadvantage over any other planet, other than maybe it'll fuel your ego if you control it.

 

As it stands the things you need to know are;

Your population (duh)

Your fleet size

Your resources output per year

The statistics of your fleet & army

What you build each year

 

IFs;

Where you invade/expand

Battle tactics that most suit your forces

 

somewhat important;

random tidbits about other players

system map

 

All I can think of atm?

 

Archi, if you want to post that combat system then go ahead.

[archimage_a]

Ok, ground combat system, still waiting on resource stuff from Dungeonal:

Preparing for Combat

Ok, combat is about Squads facing each other, just like ships in space combat.

Squads are made up for 10 people and the 5,000 resources.

 

So a squad with no training gets level 1 Attack, Defence, Speed and Teamwork.

A squad with normal training gets 5,5,5,5. But it costs 10,000 Resources more.

Then you can buy extra training for 2,000 resources each.(12,000 total)

Training can be:

+ 3 attack, -1 Defence

+3 Defence, -1 Attack

+3 Speed, -1 Teamwork

+3 Teamwork, -1 Speed

+1 to all.

 

You can buy more than one set for your troops, but each new set costs 5 times the one before it (2,000, 10,000, 50,000, 250,000, 1,250,000)

 

If you research Advanced Training you can buy double training. Expert Training means you can buy triple training. Master Training means you can buy quadruple training. Grand Master Training means you can buy quintuple training. AI Training means you can buy sextuple training.

 

So if you have Grand Master training you can train a squad to +15 attack, with -5 defence, for 22,000 resources.

 

 

 

In Combat

The attacker and defender chose tactics before the attack begins.

 

There are three types of attack, Blitz Attack, Mass Attack and Hit and Run.

Blitz means your strengh is your attack stat times two.

Mass Attack takes your attack and times it by your teamwork.

Hit and run takes your attack and times it by your speed.

 

Generally it is a good idea to take your highest two skills and attack with those two times together.

 

There are three types of defence, Elastic Defence, Defence Tactics, Hold the Line.

Elastic Defence is your Speed times by your Defence.

Defence Tactics is your Defence times two.

Hold the Line is your Defence times your Teamwork.

 

With defence it is normally good idea to pick the opposite defence to that of your opponates attack. If your stats arn't built for that type of defence you should go with your strongest defence type.

 

 

A Green line means the Attacker doubles their stats. A Blue Line means the stats stay the same. A Red Line means the Defender doubles their stats.

 

 

You can choose your tactics by PM otherwise the moderator will roll on it.

 

Moderator Bit

WARNING BORING NUMBERS

 

Both sides are calculated and this represents their relative strengths. They may be 30 and 40, for instance. You then divide the attacker(30) by the defender(40). Which is 0.75. This is the provisional result.

You then add or subtract any effects you think, weather, terrain and other stuff, up to .25

Then you roll a 20 sided dice. A 20 gives the attacker +.25, 10 does nothing and 1 gives the defender +.25. The numbers imbetween are filled up with +.025 increments towards the attacker.

This gives you the final result:

 

 

 

 

A score lower than 0 means the attacker lost three quarters of their troops and the defender lost no one. The defender holds onto their territory.

A score of higher than 0 but less than .5 means the defender lost a quarter of their troops and the attacker lost half. The Defender holds onto their territory though.

A score of higher than .5 but lower than 1 will mean that the attack lost a quarter of their troops and the defender lost half their troops, but the defender held onto the territory.

A score of exactly 1 means that both sides fought to the death and both sides are completely wiped out.

A score of higher than 1 but less than 1.25 will mean both sides lose half their troops, but the attacker manages to force the defender back.

A score of higher than 1.25 but lower than 1.75 means the attacker loses a quarter of their troops while the defenders lose half. The attacker manages to force the defenders back.

A score of higher than 1.75 means the attacker lost no one, but the defender losts three quarters. The attacker manges to force the defender back.

 

If the score is exactly, .5, 1.25 or 1.75 then the result is at the moderator's disgression. They are advised to use dice.

[Seraphi]

That all seems perfect, except for a few minor tidbits.

 

Firstly, which resources will training take? I assume organics and medicine.

 

And secondly, I've said before that I don't think people should lose 1/2 of their troops from a battle unless it goes horrifically badly. That does not happen in real life at all. It should probably be 25 (Or 20, or whatever, but not 100)% from both sides if there is a score of 1, and based from there.

 

 

And thirdly, I assume other modifiers (Where you attack from, when you attack etc.) will be arbitarily decided by the moderators?

[archimage_a]

1

Dungeonal(or someone else with his permission) would need to work that out becaue I don't get the system currently.

 

2

Well I wanted to keep it simple, rather than some sort of graduated scale. Anywho a command limit of some kind would be good at making the death rates relatively low.

 

3

Everything extranous is included in the .25 added or subtracted by the moderator. There could be masses of things to give an advantage in any given scenario, but giving a 100% advantage or beyond makes training and all the other elements rather pointless.

Someone could use a relatively low level squad against a high leve squad and then pile on the advantages, and win....So we decided to try to avoid that.

[Nero]

I meant the most recent one.

And everyone seemed to forget that I existed at the end of that one. I still had the biggest fleet by far, it just wasn't anywhere near Earth.

Our fleets were the same size, but I had the capacity to produce 10,000x as many ships as you did.

 

How about we set this as 50 years in the future of the second Hegemony, just storyline wise.

And I think we should just have land battles work like they did always, with a mod doing the work, and the people giving their troop movements. Also, I think people should have to figure out how to land their own troops. Drop pods would be possible with some way to slow them down, maybe nanofiber parachutes?

 

If we did that, the Earth would be part of the Terran Federation. Virtually everything would be part of the Terran Federation (unless you're playing as an alien race).

No objections from me. :razz:

 

Can we put some limits on orbital bombardment, because I think land battles are more fun then space. On land, you have to use some strategy, in space you don't, it's basically just numbers.

 

Also, how about like in the hegemony's second thread, the first post is a giant knowledge base type thing, with maps. And since there are only a few systems, we have it organized from the start, including planetary maps.

If you want control of the planet, you have to fight on land.

 

If you just want to annihilate all life on the planet...you orbitally bombard it.

[Wisp]

Well, following the rules that 10,000 time thing is physically impossible.

But that game's long over. And yeah, I guess, but maybe have penalties for bombardment mean that it's inhabitable for X years, and also you get a penalty in terms of your civilians not liking you wiping entire races out.

[archimage_a]

Clearly you didn't observe me whipping my people into Xenophobia last time. I think that, as long as Dungeonal is told way beforehand(30/40 years beforehand), you shouldn't get a penalty for wiping races out, but should get penalties in other ways.

[a_bert]

Your economy = your population. i.e. 1 person can do 1 job.

Jobs are: manufacturing, researching, harvesting and foodstuffs.

 

Manufacturing;

A 'standard' battleship takes 50,000 people 1 year to complete.

A 'module' takes 10,000 people 1 year to complete, with an extra 10,000 people per extra square of size the module is.

A platoon of troops (25k) requires 50,000 organics and 25,000 medicine. Consumes 25k people. Takes 1 year to build.

 

Researching;

To research 'modules' it takes 50,000 people 1 year to complete, with an extra 50,000 people per extra square size the module is.

Modules exist such as: Attack (Ship), Defence (Ship), Stealth (Ship), Worker effieicny (Ship), Speed (ship), Attack (land), defence (land), teamwork (land), speed (land).

Other research 50k people, 100k of every resource, 5 years.

Increase growth rate by 1% research.

Expert harvesting (double harvest rate)

Expert manufacture (double manufacture rate)

Efficient harvesting (increased replenishg rate)

 

Harvesting;

1 person = 1 resource.

Manufacture = 1 person per resource.

 

Growth limit capped at 5%.

Initial growth rate is 5%, decreases 1% every day until it stays constant at 1% unless research put into it.

 

Dat ships;

 

A 'standard' battleship costs 100,000 Metal Ore, 75,000 of Uranium, 50,000 of Chemicals, 25,000 of Equipment.

A 'module' costs 25,000 of Metal Ore, 20,000 of Uranium, and 15,000 of Equipment per square of space.

Modules for different things cost different resource types.

 

A 'standard' battleship has module size of 5 by 5.

 

RESOURCE LIST:

Metal Ore - harvest

Uranium - harvest

Chemicals - harvest

Medicine - manufacture (1/2 organics+ 1/2 chemicals)

Organics - harvest

Equipment - manufacture (1/2 Metal ore + 1/2 uranium)

 

EXAMPLE:

 

To build 1 battleship you would need 100,000 people mining metal ore, 75,000 people harvesting uranium, 50,000 people harvesting chemicals, and for 25,000 uranium you require 12500 more metal ore and 12500 more uranium and then 25000 people to manufacture that into equipment. You then need 50,000 people to put it all together. (For a total of 350k people.

Once that battleship is complete it requires 50,000 people as standard to run it, along with a stock of 10,000 organics and 10,000 medicine per year it will spend outside your planets zone of influence. i.e for one year, it will require 15000 people to create organics and 5000 people to create the chemicals and then 10000 people to manufacture the medicine. or 30k people per year.

 

This means that for a standard battleship, you need 380k people to run it for one year, and it removes 50,000 people from your population per battleship produced.

 

What did I leave out?

 

EDIT: o rite

 

Starting planets start with 750k of each resource which replenishes by 125k per resource per year.

Uncolonized planets start with 1 million of each resource which replenishes by 250k each year, even if the planet remains uncolonized.

[archimage_a]

Would that mean you needed 30k to supply the ship and 50k to crew the ship...the other 350k are just involved in building it? Thus could be redeployed afterwards...Or built over a series of years if you had less people.

[a_bert]

Yes, Archi.

 

I guess it scales naturally. half people building = 2 years.. etc

[Seraphi]

Can you cause resources to replenish faster if you research different things? I assume so.

 

Other than that, I can't see any real problems with this system.

 

Edit: Ah, one thing.

 

In the previous games, we have not taken into account the capture of territory means that the victor is now free to control the population within that territory.

If we do implement this system, it means that orbital bombardment will simply get you land, which would require you to transfer people and build things for a good few years before becoming productive.

 

Surface wars mean you capture the infrastructure as well, even if it takes longer.

 

it's a tradeoff essentially. If you bombard them, you have to spend 10 years+ getting it back to production capacity. If you capture them, it takes a few years longer and you lose troops and supplies, but you get a shorter period of lessened production. (There would still be a small period of lowered production due to the population not liking you.)

[a_bert]

Good point, Ross, added to the list.

 

Seems like a reasonable drawback to orbital bombardment.. The planet itself takes 5 years to recover to habitable status, and then it takes 2-3 years to establish industry upon said planet.

[Seraphi]

Righto. Is there anything we have not yet covered?

[a_bert]

I don't think so...