Do Mages Still Need to use Ancients?

[TheAncient]

Mages are known mainly for ice barrage and its freezing capability, and not its damage. However, ice barrage is notoriously expensive, at over 2K a cast, and is one of the main detractors from using mage.

 

Previously, Standard spellbook wasn't really an option because it was too weak. But can mages stand their own without barrage now? That is, are we to see more Standard mages now that Standard spellbook can hold its own?

 

Fire surge's max hit is over 40, with extremes/wolpertinger and the staff of light. It's also much cheaper than ice barrage; it costs roughly 800 gp a cast compared to ~2200. Now that diamond (e)'s are over 1.7K each, the cost for Standard mage and range are almost comparable!

 

Keep in mind that mage attacks are typically much more accurate than range attacks, as most people use some form of melee gear.

[TheWilch]

doesnt ancients hit faster then normal magics? i was always under the impression it did, alteast it sure seems that way when im using it or getting it used against me.

huge advantage pking.

[Bladewing]

Ice Barrage should be able to hit 46 or 47 with the same setup, so it's more powerful. It also freezes, which a mage using normal spells would have to cast a special and inaccurate spell.

[Laura]

Except you gain more than 50% of your bolts back.

[TheAncient]

Ice Barrage should be able to hit 46 or 47 with the same setup, so it's more powerful. It also freezes, which a mage using normal spells would have to cast a special and inaccurate spell.

 

Ice barrage and fire surge have the same max. and it's not 46.

 

And my point is not that standard spellbook will replace people who use ancients, but rather that more people that used to use range or melee will switch over to maging with standard.

[Laura]

Ice Barrage should be able to hit 46 or 47 with the same setup, so it's more powerful. It also freezes, which a mage using normal spells would have to cast a special and inaccurate spell.

 

Ice barrage and fire surge have the same max. and it's not 46.

 

And my point is not that standard spellbook will replace people who use ancients, but rather that more people that used to use range or melee will switch over to maging with standard.

Magic is the only combat (damaging, as opposed to something like prayer) skill that heavily relies on armour for accuracy and bonuses. Because of this, the skill is seen quite inferior to the other two, melee and range, where you can easily slap on dragon hide or plate armour in the case of a ranger, without any adverse effects.

[TheAncient]

Ice Barrage should be able to hit 46 or 47 with the same setup, so it's more powerful. It also freezes, which a mage using normal spells would have to cast a special and inaccurate spell.

 

Ice barrage and fire surge have the same max. and it's not 46.

 

And my point is not that standard spellbook will replace people who use ancients, but rather that more people that used to use range or melee will switch over to maging with standard.

Magic is the only combat (damaging, as opposed to something like prayer) skill that heavily relies on armour for accuracy and bonuses. Because of this, the skill is seen quite inferior to the other two, melee and range, where you can easily slap on dragon hide or plate armour in the case of a ranger, without any adverse effects.

 

99 Range with +150 range attack can't hit against +250 range defense even using dhide body and legs

And no, you can have ~+250 melee / ~+150 range defense and still have enough mage bonus to be very accurate.

[chuckangie]

I think players will mostly use Surges for PvM while Barrages for PvP.

[muggiwhplar]

teleblock's the only benefit of using moderns. entangle's really inaccurate, and you can't combine spells like you can on ancients

[JoeDaStudd]

You can't stack normal spells, freezing+poisoning in 1 turn is a big advantage. Then theres the 2 mage+range stack.

Anyway god spells have always hit hard on the normal spell book.

[miracleman58]

After reading a recent-ish Questions and answers most answers pointed towards a combat triangle rebalance, and with the recent magic updates i think this is true and happening.

This in turn then leads to magic being more powerful with new spells ans set ups, the once before 'powerful' spells are being cast aside for new spells and equipment.

[NotoriousPSC]

Also in Ancient Magicks, You can poison some one, sap their HP, and lower their attack (as well as attack everyone around them)

[totalpwnage]

Yes.

 

1 reason. Entangles are still halfed if the other person is praying mage. Ice barrage is not. And if they make ice barrage start being halfed, I will seriously be annoyed.

 

You could add other reasons though...

 

Normal magics take up way too much space.

 

Normals are a spellbook for PvM and ancients is for PvP. You said that ice barrage is used for freezing but not for damage - sorry but that's not right at all. People use it for both, otherwise you would see people using something like shadow barrage and smoke barrage after every freeze. I've' seen it done but ice barrage is more damage anyways and when people pray melee you're going to keep barraging.

 

I hit 39s with ice barrage with a wolpertinger so why not use ice barrage for damage? Thats about what I hit with bolts non-spec.

[TheAncient]

OK, I think my main point is being misinterpreted.

 

In safe PvP, there are currently:

-- Meleers

-- Rangers

-- Ancients

 

The people who range do it for the following reasons:

-- Meleers have a disadvantage in that they have to be close to their target

-- Ancients is too expensive

-- Standard is too weak

 

What' im asking is, in this niche of players (who want to used a ranged attack but don't want to spend so much on ancients), will Standard become more popular?

It's relatively cheap now with bloods and deaths crashing in price, and it can hit around 40, which is approximately the same as diamond (e)'s. It's also more accurate than range (typically).

 

I don't think that ancients will switch back to standard. Ancient was and still is much stronger than standard. People that use ancients can afford ancients, so they will stay on the stronger spellbook.

[totalpwnage]

What' im asking is, in this niche of players (who want to used a ranged attack but don't want to spend so much on ancients), will Standard become more popular?

It's relatively cheap now with bloods and deaths crashing in price, and it can hit around 40, which is approximately the same as diamond (e)'s. It's also more accurate than range (typically).

No because they'll get wrecked due to a lack of defensive stats and if they farcast people will cry and pray and if they get tbed they'll run for sure. and if they fight a ranger they're definitely screwed

[TheAncient]

What' im asking is, in this niche of players (who want to used a ranged attack but don't want to spend so much on ancients), will Standard become more popular?

It's relatively cheap now with bloods and deaths crashing in price, and it can hit around 40, which is approximately the same as diamond (e)'s. It's also more accurate than range (typically).

No because they'll get wrecked due to a lack of defensive stats and if they farcast people will cry and pray and if they get tbed they'll run for sure. and if they fight a ranger they're definitely screwed

 

As long as you range protect, wear a melee shield, wear a melee helm, and pray defense, you won't get owned by a few rangers...

Rangers also have pretty terrible defense, unless you tank range (in which case youre also quite inaccurate, even with dhide/arma body)

 

Also, I would even like to bet that a mage wearing Verac's body is more accurate against meleers than a ranger with dhide top/bottom

[totalpwnage]

What' im asking is, in this niche of players (who want to used a ranged attack but don't want to spend so much on ancients), will Standard become more popular?

It's relatively cheap now with bloods and deaths crashing in price, and it can hit around 40, which is approximately the same as diamond (e)'s. It's also more accurate than range (typically).

No because they'll get wrecked due to a lack of defensive stats and if they farcast people will cry and pray and if they get tbed they'll run for sure. and if they fight a ranger they're definitely screwed

 

As long as you range protect, wear a melee shield, wear a melee helm, and pray defense, you won't get owned by a few rangers...

Rangers also have pretty terrible defense, unless you tank range (in which case youre also quite inaccurate, even with dhide/arma body)

 

Also, I would even like to bet that a mage wearing Verac's body is more accurate against meleers than a ranger with dhide top/bottom

Uh not really. The melee shield and helm are common but you still get hit often, and rambo tanking is ridiculous...

 

No offense but I'm guessing you don't pvp often.

[TheAncient]

What' im asking is, in this niche of players (who want to used a ranged attack but don't want to spend so much on ancients), will Standard become more popular?

It's relatively cheap now with bloods and deaths crashing in price, and it can hit around 40, which is approximately the same as diamond (e)'s. It's also more accurate than range (typically).

No because they'll get wrecked due to a lack of defensive stats and if they farcast people will cry and pray and if they get tbed they'll run for sure. and if they fight a ranger they're definitely screwed

 

As long as you range protect, wear a melee shield, wear a melee helm, and pray defense, you won't get owned by a few rangers...

Rangers also have pretty terrible defense, unless you tank range (in which case youre also quite inaccurate, even with dhide/arma body)

 

Also, I would even like to bet that a mage wearing Verac's body is more accurate against meleers than a ranger with dhide top/bottom

Uh not really. The melee shield and helm are common but you still get hit often, and rambo tanking is ridiculous...

 

No offense but I'm guessing you don't pvp often.

 

Idk about now, but I've seen people tank 10+ mage/rangers and a few claw specs... it comes down to knowing how to run around stuff & not getting frozen

I clan warred for an entire year. lol. Ive also been in 2 warring clans.

There have been points where I was in full arma with 99 range and still missed consecutive shots against someone in Vhelm + DFS + ahrim...

 

I guess the big difference is that you do dangerous PvP where people use welfare gear, while I only do safe PvP where everyone is in maxed gear

[totalpwnage]

What' im asking is, in this niche of players (who want to used a ranged attack but don't want to spend so much on ancients), will Standard become more popular?

It's relatively cheap now with bloods and deaths crashing in price, and it can hit around 40, which is approximately the same as diamond (e)'s. It's also more accurate than range (typically).

No because they'll get wrecked due to a lack of defensive stats and if they farcast people will cry and pray and if they get tbed they'll run for sure. and if they fight a ranger they're definitely screwed

 

As long as you range protect, wear a melee shield, wear a melee helm, and pray defense, you won't get owned by a few rangers...

Rangers also have pretty terrible defense, unless you tank range (in which case youre also quite inaccurate, even with dhide/arma body)

 

Also, I would even like to bet that a mage wearing Verac's body is more accurate against meleers than a ranger with dhide top/bottom

Uh not really. The melee shield and helm are common but you still get hit often, and rambo tanking is ridiculous...

 

No offense but I'm guessing you don't pvp often.

 

Idk about now, but I've seen people tank 10+ mage/rangers and a few claw specs... it comes down to knowing how to run around stuff & not getting frozen

I clan warred for an entire year. lol. Ive also been in 2 warring clans.

There have been points where I was in full arma with 99 range and still missed consecutive shots against someone in Vhelm + DFS + ahrim...

 

I guess the big difference is that you do dangerous PvP where people use welfare gear, while I only do safe PvP where everyone is in maxed gear

Yeah clan wars and PvP are 2 completely different things. Clan wars you take whatever you can take, PvP you gotta take stuff knowing that you have a possibility of dying.

Oh and pvp is all tanks and welfare now. If you find ahrims more than likely he has a team sitting offscreen.

 

VHelm Dfs Ahrim is pretty low mage bonus but we're talking a good 8m risk in that right there, thats decent defense (like +140 range def) but you can't expect to hit every time. I've had times where I hit tons of 0s on 20 defense, oh well

 

Maybe in clan wars? Doubtful because normals have no multicombat spells.

[Albel]

I think players will mostly use Surges for PvM while Barrages for PvP.

You hit it exactly sir. Other uses for anicents can for for faster traning on rock lobesters, and I use anicetns for barrows. I get alot of my runes back from it...so the cost is not to bad.