Constitution Update

[Earth_Poet]

THATS EXACTLY MY POINT.

Whereas before, you don't get hit as much;now, health slowly disappears

 

I'm not complaining I die when I get piled.

 

So? That's both a benefit and a disadvantage, although it's more beneficial for the lower levelled people than the higher levelled ones.

 

 

I think that's his point, genius. He's saying it isn't a fair system.

[quelmotz]

THATS EXACTLY MY POINT.

Whereas before, you don't get hit as much;now, health slowly disappears

 

I'm not complaining I die when I get piled.

 

So? That's both a benefit and a disadvantage, although it's more beneficial for the lower levelled people than the higher levelled ones.

 

 

I think that's his point, genius. He's saying it isn't a fair system.

 

It's only so little more beneficial to lower levelled people. Don't higher levelled players fight boss monsters too? Don't your 0.1s and such become 1-9 and stuff and "add up" too? Don't you pile people of around the same level? From my experience in Clan Wars you'll hit quite a lot of 0s, so the update benefits you in this aspect too.

[howbadisbad]

TBH, constitution was a completely useless update.

 

6 Reasons

 

1. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh

2. People say this paves the way for new hp updates... Could have left the skill named Hitpoints, constitution sounds stupid.

3. Its great how i get hit way more now. Bank for food more often ftw?

4. We don't want people to play because they see "big" hits, because those people are children. If you get bored of hitting 0's at low levels, this game is obviously not meant for you.

5. I seem to be hitting less damage now, than i did before the update. Some people say the same thing, others say they hit the same as before. Just what i have noticed by myself.

6. I would probably hate this update less if everything in a 3x3 square wasn't covered in hit splats when you get claw'd

 

All in all a completely pointless update. Realistically there are no positives but there are negatives.

[quelmotz]

TBH, constitution was a completely useless update.

 

6 Reasons

 

1. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh

2. People say this paves the way for new hp updates... Could have left the skill named Hitpoints, constitution sounds stupid.

3. Its great how i get hit way more now. Bank for food more often ftw?

4. We don't want people to play because they see "big" hits, because those people are children. If you get bored of hitting 0's at low levels, this game is obviously not meant for you.

5. I seem to be hitting less damage now, than i did before the update. Some people say the same thing, others say they hit the same as before. Just what i have noticed by myself.

6. I would probably hate this update less if everything in a 3x3 square wasn't covered in hit splats when you get claw'd

 

All in all a completely pointless update. Realistically there are no positives but there are negatives.

 

Load of opinionated crap.

 

1. Oh, the health system started to remotely resemble Yu-Gi-Oh (it doesn't even do so actually, Yu-Gi-Oh counts in thousands I think) so the game is evolving into Yu-Gi-Oh!!!

2. Constitution sounding stupid is a combination of your personal opinion and poor vocabulary.

3. You get hit way more, others also get hit way more.

4. You'll be surprised to find that plenty of teenagers have a very short attention span too.

5. You seem to be. Care to conduct an experiment to prove it? A short streak of bad luck doesn't immediately mean there's a bug.

6. That's purely opinion. Other games fill your whole screen with blood and gore when you kill someone. Isn't that worse?

 

So in conclusion, what you've been saying is purely your personal opinion and has no factual evidence to say that the constitution update somehow hindered your gaming experience and as such is a bad update.

[Earth_Poet]

It's only so little more beneficial to lower levelled people. Don't higher levelled players fight boss monsters too? Don't your 0.1s and such become 1-9 and stuff and "add up" too?

 

Don't those bosses' hits "add up" too, virtually negating the advantage in this irrelevant scenario?

 

Don't you pile people of around the same level? From my experience in Clan Wars you'll hit quite a lot of 0s, so the update benefits you in this aspect too.

 

Wasn't that why we trained our Attack levels?

 

 

Attack will determine your accuracy when fighting and will increase your consistency when hitting opponents.

 

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/melee_the_basics

[howbadisbad]

 

 

Load of opinionated crap.

 

1. Oh, the health system started to remotely resemble Yu-Gi-Oh (it doesn't even do so actually, Yu-Gi-Oh counts in thousands I think) so the game is evolving into Yu-Gi-Oh!!!

2. Constitution sounding stupid is a combination of your personal opinion and poor vocabulary.

3. You get hit way more, others also get hit way more.

4. You'll be surprised to find that plenty of teenagers have a very short attention span too.

5. You seem to be. Care to conduct an experiment to prove it? A short streak of bad luck doesn't immediately mean there's a bug.

6. That's purely opinion. Other games fill your whole screen with blood and gore when you kill someone. Isn't that worse?

 

So in conclusion, what you've been saying is purely your personal opinion and has no factual evidence to say that the constitution update somehow hindered your gaming experience and as such is a bad update.

 

1. Uhh, with brews you can go into the thousands

2. Its far more straightforward having your level name and your health name different is more confusing by default. :ohnoes:

3. So useless, except I would rather get hit less than hit more. (but thats an opinion :o)

4. So why would you make the numbers bigger? Its not helping anyone. If you can't stand the 0's in early levels then you will not last to level 20 as this game is pure grinding.

5. If i had a time machine I would.

6. If it caused you to die and actually lose stuff you had to work for, yea. Although i have never played a game like what you mention.

 

You can't provide facts for or against on an update like this. Because nothing changed gameplaywise as anyone can prove (since the better old system was replaced) except making the game look cooler to 10 year olds.

[quelmotz]

Don't those bosses' hits "add up" too, virtually negating the advantage in this irrelevant scenario?

 

I'm not too sure about this, but don't bosses have higher defense and attack, making it harder for you to hit and easier for them to hit you? So you benefit more from the update.

 

Wasn't that why we trained our Attack levels?

 

So you're pontificating that your attack level is so high you practically never miss on someone around the same level as you? From my experience this is clearly not the case, even if your attack is quite a few levels higher than your opponent's defense.

 

 

 

Load of opinionated crap.

 

1. Oh, the health system started to remotely resemble Yu-Gi-Oh (it doesn't even do so actually, Yu-Gi-Oh counts in thousands I think) so the game is evolving into Yu-Gi-Oh!!!

2. Constitution sounding stupid is a combination of your personal opinion and poor vocabulary.

3. You get hit way more, others also get hit way more.

4. You'll be surprised to find that plenty of teenagers have a very short attention span too.

5. You seem to be. Care to conduct an experiment to prove it? A short streak of bad luck doesn't immediately mean there's a bug.

6. That's purely opinion. Other games fill your whole screen with blood and gore when you kill someone. Isn't that worse?

 

So in conclusion, what you've been saying is purely your personal opinion and has no factual evidence to say that the constitution update somehow hindered your gaming experience and as such is a bad update.

 

1. Uhh, with brews you can go into the thousands Yu-Gi-Oh cards only have health like 1001 and such? As far as I know their health and such go into multiple thousands.

2. Its far more straightforward having your level name and your health name different is more confusing by default. :ohnoes: Wow...it takes that much mental capacity to remember something simple like that...

3. So useless, except I would rather get hit less than hit more. (but thats an opinion :o) Some people prefer faster battles, so that neutralises you point.

4. So why would you make the numbers bigger? Its not helping anyone. If you can't stand the 0's in early levels then you will not last to level 20 as this game is pure grinding. It helps low levels get interested in the game. People grind to complete quests/to earn money. These two are huge motivators. Or bragging rights, which is also a significant source of motivation. Whereas at early levels of the game people fight monsters for the fun of it, and they might easily lose interest if they keep missing.

5. If i had a time machine I would. So the problem doesn't exist any more? Doesn't that just reinforce my point that it's just a streak of bad luck?

6. If it caused you to die and actually lose stuff you had to work for, yea. Although i have never played a game like what you mention. I doubt a bunch of hit splats caused you to die because you didn't eat or something. After all, the damage splats on you will show up on top when they come out.

 

You can't provide facts for or against on an update like this. Because nothing changed gameplaywise as anyone can prove (since the better old system was replaced) except making the game look cooler to 10 year olds. You can. You didn't give any evidence that the experience rates decrease, nor did you actually bother to obtain background information about Yu-Gi-Oh before randomly throwing it in as an example.

[Pluckey]

I personally am neutral about this update.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem to affect me much at all. Why are all of you complaining that you hit less?

 

 

 

I say that this opens new doors for the skill in the future.

[howbadisbad]

So the problem doesn't exist any more? Doesn't that just reinforce my point that it's just a streak of bad luck?

 

Because I can go back to the time when this update wasn't here yet and test. OK!

 

Yu-gi-oh cards don't have hp they have attack the player has lifepoints that start at 8000.

 

But as the monsters have high attack and the player has higher hp you could say they are somewhat the same as runescapes lower hits and lower hp.

 

Examples aren't always exactly perfect either.

 

The rest of the arguments would just go back any forth as they are opinions so I won't bother.

[quelmotz]

So the problem doesn't exist any more? Doesn't that just reinforce my point that it's just a streak of bad luck?

 

Because I can go back to the time when this update wasn't here yet and test. OK! I think there are EXP rate calculation devices for before the update. Wait...I just realised! They haven't changed! -.-

 

Yu-gi-oh cards don't have hp they have attack the player has lifepoints that start at 8000.

 

But as the monsters have high attack and the player has higher hp you could say they are somewhat the same as runescapes lower hits and lower hp.

 

Examples aren't always exactly perfect either. I'm not disputing that fact. I'm arguing about the RELEVANCE of your example. It's so far-fetched.

 

The rest of the arguments would just go back any forth as they are opinions so I won't bother.

[K4ylan]

I personally am neutral about this update.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem to affect me much at all. Why are all of you complaining that you hit less?

 

 

 

I say that this opens new doors for the skill in the future.

 

I wouldn't say a new skill, but updates to the hitpoint constitution skill. The most obvious idea being that we could have armours that raise your Constitution Level(therefore giving you a higher max LP), or special attacks that reduce your Constitution Level(preventing you from healing to max).

[quelmotz]

I personally am neutral about this update.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem to affect me much at all. Why are all of you complaining that you hit less?

 

 

 

I say that this opens new doors for the skill in the future.

 

I wouldn't say a new skill, but updates to the hitpoint constitution skill. The most obvious idea being that we could have armours that raise your Constitution Level(therefore giving you a higher max LP), or special attacks that reduce your Constitution Level(preventing you from healing to max).

 

Potions/other equipment that raise constitution, weapons that lower max LP when you hit above X damage, etc. There are countless possibilities.

[howbadisbad]

I personally am neutral about this update.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem to affect me much at all. Why are all of you complaining that you hit less?

 

 

 

I say that this opens new doors for the skill in the future.

 

 

I wouldn't say a new skill, but updates to the hitpoint constitution skill. The most obvious idea being that we could have armours that raise your Constitution Level(therefore giving you a higher max LP), or special attacks that reduce your Constitution Level(preventing you from healing to max).

 

Potions/other equipment that raise constitution, weapons that lower max LP when you hit above X damage, etc. There are countless possibilities.

 

Same thing could have happened for hp.

[quelmotz]

I personally am neutral about this update.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem to affect me much at all. Why are all of you complaining that you hit less?

 

 

 

I say that this opens new doors for the skill in the future.

 

 

I wouldn't say a new skill, but updates to the hitpoint constitution skill. The most obvious idea being that we could have armours that raise your Constitution Level(therefore giving you a higher max LP), or special attacks that reduce your Constitution Level(preventing you from healing to max).

 

Potions/other equipment that raise constitution, weapons that lower max LP when you hit above X damage, etc. There are countless possibilities.

 

Same thing could have happened for hp.

 

Your intelligence astounds me.

 

110/99 is basically eating. But currently you can't eat above your limits, except a few hp using some special potions/foods I think.

 

The LP/Constitution system allows food that boosts your LP max greatly over your limits, without affecting your constitution skill too much (which I think Jagex does not want).

[pokstair]

What I see is that the "max LP" will be recorded by changes in the constitution skill in the skill totals.

 

E.g. A potion that increases max LP to 1100 will make your Constitution level to be displayed as 110/99.

 

However, as LP numbers are no longer tied to constitution level, your LP can drop to 800, 700, 600 even though your Constitution level is (temporarily) at 110 due to modifiers.

 

However I believe that the update was not necessary to accomplish this change. All that was needed was a mentality shift that the number before your real skill level was not your current HP, and that your current HP was whatever was shown in the HUD beside your current Prayer and Stamina points.

[Earth_Poet]

Wasn't that why we trained our Attack levels?

 

So you're pontificating that your attack level is so high you practically never miss on someone around the same level as you? From my experience this is clearly not the case, even if your attack is quite a few levels higher than your opponent's defense.

 

No, I thought it to be a pretty straightforward question. Wasn't the point of training Attack to improve your accuracy? What boggles my mind is that instead of answering the question I had asked, you made up another one, and then ridiculed yourself for asking it. Why? I never said my Attack level is so high I practically never miss. I can see why that would be easy to refute, since that's clearly not the case in my own experience as well. Maybe that's why I didn't say that. But if I ever do, then I guess I know the answer now. Furthermore, I didn't know this kind of extremism is where your goal for Runescape laid: A game where no one ever fails, especially in the beginning! If that was your true point all along, that somehow this game would be made better if we never ever missed our targets, then yes, quelmotz, you are right. My Attack level doesn't go that high.

 

Oh, and if you really wish to talk about my rudeness, then maybe you should take a long look in the mirror, or maybe just review your own snide comments throughout this thread, because as a wise man two posts above me once said, "Your intelligence astounds me." This argument is dull and old now, and you have yet to make any case to the "benefits" of the update, which is a shame since you are the only one heartily defending it. It's still a useless, and mostly unnecessary update. I'm guessing you're just here trying to play devil's advocate, as it's the only way I can make sense of your arguments anymore. I'll let you get back to the pretend debate now.

[walka92]

another possibility of constitution and LP is that you can modify both lp and cons seperately (theoretically) in future updates

example: x potion increases constitution by y for a short time

yet a weapon increases LP by a relatively smaller amount, but permenantly. you can have alot smaller, more finetuned changes in lp, to allow for more itemisation/gear. this allows more ways to increase hp i guess >_> (lp. my bad. i dont care. same thing really)

[quelmotz]

Wasn't that why we trained our Attack levels?

 

So you're pontificating that your attack level is so high you practically never miss on someone around the same level as you? From my experience this is clearly not the case, even if your attack is quite a few levels higher than your opponent's defense.

 

No, I thought it to be a pretty straightforward question. Wasn't the point of training Attack to improve your accuracy? What boggles my mind is that instead of answering the question I had asked, you made up another one, and then ridiculed yourself for asking it. Why? I never said my Attack level is so high I practically never miss. I can see why that would be easy to refute, since that's clearly not the case in my own experience as well. Maybe that's why I didn't say that. But if I ever do, then I guess I know the answer now. Furthermore, I didn't know this kind of extremism is where your goal for Runescape laid: A game where no one ever fails, especially in the beginning! If that was your true point all along, that somehow this game would be made better if we never ever missed our targets, then yes, quelmotz, you are right. My Attack level doesn't go that high.

 

Oh, and if you really wish to talk about my rudeness, then maybe you should take a long look in the mirror, or maybe just review your own snide comments throughout this thread, because as a wise man two posts above me once said, "Your intelligence astounds me." This argument is dull and old now, and you have yet to make any case to the "benefits" of the update, which is a shame since you are the only one heartily defending it. It's still a useless, and mostly unnecessary update. I'm guessing you're just here trying to play devil's advocate, as it's the only way I can make sense of your arguments anymore. I'll let you get back to the pretend debate now.

 

You're the one beating around the bush. Attack improves your accuracy, but wasn't that why your opponents trained their defense levels? To neutralise the accuracy you gained with your increased attack. So my point is it doesn't matter how high your attack level is, you'd still be hitting 0s roughly as much on a person of similar defense level as you.

 

You seem to not be able to interpret sarcasm. Me saying that you're able to hit 100% of the time was sarcasm to emphasise my point. You (intentionally or not) took it and made a big fuss out of it.

 

Since when did I talk about your rudeness?

 

I've made my case countless times. It's too bad if you feel your rebuttals have neutralised them, because in my honest opinion, they have not.

[langer]

Pros :

- more accurate hits

- possibility to expand the skill with equipment or potions

- some food and specs heal higher (used to be rounded down)

 

Cons:

- some npc's hit higher (used to be rounded down) i.e. in pyramid plunder, the scarab swarm hits lots of "low hits" quickly which used to be rounded down to 1 and are now around 19

- some players feel it violates an aspect of the game that remainded unchanged for a long moment

- evaluating your remaining life points in critical situation (PVP, boss hunting) is harder

 

Pro # 3 and Con # 1 kinda nullify themselves, while Con #2 and 3 require an adaptation period.

 

Pro #1 is not very significant and Pro #2 has not been implemented fully to this date.

 

I'd say, this is a good first step in the right directin for a good update, but it can't be labelled that yet as it is not yet completed with equipment effects.

[Earth_Poet]

You're the one beating around the bush.

 

If you mean by speaking directly then I guess I was.

 

You seem to not be able to interpret sarcasm. Me saying that you're able to hit 100% of the time was sarcasm to emphasise my point. You (intentionally or not) took it and made a big fuss out of it.

 

And you seem to not understand the definition of sarcasm. I think the word you are looking for is EXAGGERATION, and most people tend to find the truth more convincing than ludicrous scenarios when making a point.

 

I've made my case countless times. It's too bad if you feel your rebuttals have neutralised them, because in my honest opinion, they have not.

 

Sure, you win. <~~~ sarcasm

[Atonisk]

On the contrary, this is an example of you blatant idiocy.

 

Honestly, I wasn't sure before but now I'm convinced that you're nothing more than a crap troll trying to get attention. You ignore anything that directly refutes your arguments and then twist everybody elses' points around before responding to the argument you yourself distorted. You're quick to flame, but slow to actually present anything resembling a coherent argument. You've basically gone around insulting everybody in this post who disagrees with you despite the fact that you lack anything resembling knowledge about RS. I'd say that I'm done arguing with you, but you haven't really done any arguing; instead you've just jumped around the issue and tossed in an insult whenever you could squeeze one in.

[howbadisbad]

I personally am neutral about this update.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem to affect me much at all. Why are all of you complaining that you hit less?

 

 

 

I say that this opens new doors for the skill in the future.

 

 

I wouldn't say a new skill, but updates to the hitpoint constitution skill. The most obvious idea being that we could have armours that raise your Constitution Level(therefore giving you a higher max LP), or special attacks that reduce your Constitution Level(preventing you from healing to max).

 

Potions/other equipment that raise constitution, weapons that lower max LP when you hit above X damage, etc. There are countless possibilities.

 

Same thing could have happened for hp.

 

Your intelligence astounds me.

 

110/99 is basically eating. But currently you can't eat above your limits, except a few hp using some special potions/foods I think.

 

The LP/Constitution system allows food that boosts your LP max greatly over your limits, without affecting your constitution skill too much (which I think Jagex does not want).

 

 

*Updates hp so when your Hitpoints go down your actual level doesn't*

 

GJ.

 

And wtf are you trying to day about boosting constitution too much? That drinking a sara brew and making your hitpoints skill look like 110/99 was something Jagex hated?

[warrior5024]

I loved this update. Yes, it took ages to get used to, but nowadays it makes calculating hits, accuracy, maximums and what-not far easier. Plus, as an added bonus, unicorn scrolls actually heal close to 15%, instead of the lazy 14 hp we received before. Skills like Defense and Attack are far more noticeable now and, before anybody starts, I took the same amount of damage before and after the HP change down in the Dk lair.

[quelmotz]

On the contrary, this is an example of you blatant idiocy.

 

Honestly, I wasn't sure before but now I'm convinced that you're nothing more than a crap troll trying to get attention. You ignore anything that directly refutes your arguments and then twist everybody elses' points around before responding to the argument you yourself distorted. You're quick to flame, but slow to actually present anything resembling a coherent argument. You've basically gone around insulting everybody in this post who disagrees with you despite the fact that you lack anything resembling knowledge about RS. I'd say that I'm done arguing with you, but you haven't really done any arguing; instead you've just jumped around the issue and tossed in an insult whenever you could squeeze one in.

 

Talk all you like. Think what you like.

 

I'm not going to waste time arguing with you over this issue. You yourself are guilty of many of those things you mention above. I've presented my arguments many times but you seem to be unable to comprehend them or more likely, are purposely ignoring them as you lack a coherent answer.

 

View Postquelmotz, on 06 April 2010 - 09:47 AM, said:

You're the one beating around the bush.

 

 

If you mean by speaking directly then I guess I was.

 

Quote

You seem to not be able to interpret sarcasm. Me saying that you're able to hit 100% of the time was sarcasm to emphasise my point. You (intentionally or not) took it and made a big fuss out of it.

 

 

And you seem to not understand the definition of sarcasm. I think the word you are looking for is EXAGGERATION, and most people tend to find the truth more convincing than ludicrous scenarios when making a point.

 

Quote

I've made my case countless times. It's too bad if you feel your rebuttals have neutralised them, because in my honest opinion, they have not.

 

 

Sure, you win. <~~~ sarcasm

 

You were speaking directly? Looking at your gigantic wall of text and rather irrelevant scenarios, I think you're the one beating around the bush and EXAGGERATING.

 

Sarcasm - Noun

1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.

2.a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

 

Check the dictionary first next time.

 

Did I ever say my opinion was almighty and always correct? You seem to be unable to comprehend the fact that a debate is heavily based on opinions with a few facts thrown in. From your comment it seems you're claiming your opinion is the one and only to be accepted.

 

*Updates hp so when your Hitpoints go down your actual level doesn't*

 

GJ.

 

And wtf are you trying to day about boosting constitution too much? That drinking a sara brew and making your hitpoints skill look like 110/99 was something Jagex hated?

 

Just go and look at Jagex's developer blog. I can't be bothered to explain to you why Jagex needed to change HP to Constitution.

 

----------------

 

Seriously, let's stop wasting time on the above issue.

 

Let me present my arguments again:

 

1. More accurate results were enabled to be calculated as a result of the update. This is technically both a pro and a con since you hit higher but your opponents hit higher too. It doesn't matter what your attack level is since you'll perpetually be fighting monsters (that have higher defense or the same defense as you) and players, who obviously have the same or higher defense level as you (unless you like to pick on lower levels, but that's besides the point).

 

2. Horizons were opened with this update. An update doesn't need to do something immediately. Although no updates with regards to the Constitution skill have been released, we can still count this as a pro since it ALLOWS new updates. Whether the updates are good or not isn't relevant. The fact is that it opens up the health system to new updates.

 

On the other hand, many of the cons to this update will be neutralised over time, as players adapt to the update.

 

One of the more lasting cons is that monsters/players also hit higher against you, but since that is also a pro for the players, it merely negates pro number 1.

 

So as I see it this debate is going to be based on whether an update that opens new horizons counts as an advantage/benefit.

[Saunamajuri]

Why is most people ranting about how enemies hit higher now? Isnt it nullified by the fact, that now you can hit higher also and food/other healing methods heal more? :unsure:

 

Sure, fighthing is harder at pvp and high level bosses, but on the other hand, this update has more pros than cons. And with time surely players will get used to it. Some possibilities have already been posted here, so im not gonna repeat them.