Fansite Support (Re-launch)

[Romy]

Hohbein- Why do ads matter that much? Tip.It did not change one bit (except for removing the ads, ofcourse) and that was enough to promote it from silver to platinum. That is also the reason for Tip.It's silver rank in the first place.

 

 

Why are ads such an important aspect of a fansite, according to Jagex? And why isn't it clearly explained by you? The criteria you presented requires a focused community, repetitive-site updates, etc. Nothing is explained as to advertisements, yet adds are enough to demote a website good enough for platinum- to silver!

 

 

How comes?

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Jagex doesn't want to promote it's competitors, that's the rub. I get that, but using perks to influence sites into what ads they run is I think wrong.

[Lunar_Drifter]

Tip.It gains nothing from specifically running those other gaming ads. The only thing they generate for Tip.It is click-money.. but when they remove particular ads, they are replaced by other ads that generate the same thing! People click them, Tip.It gets a tiny bit of money. Doesn't matter if it's an Evony ad or a Funorb ad. That's where the issue is- people seem to think that those particular ads are beneficial to Tip.It, when in fact they're no more beneficial than the ads that will replace them. The major source of income for Tip.It most likely comes from donations, and the ads don't really benefit us that much in the first place, so replacing one that generates 20 cents with one that generates 10 cents isn't a big deal.

 

Selling out would be if Tip.It gained something beneficial from running those specific ads. There are also no imagined violations of honor or principle or what-have-you. Tip.It did something to benefit its community that had no negative side effects. Certain people think that any dealings with Jagex are to be treated with utmost caution, because Jagex is "the man" and they have a fixation with "sticking it" to "the man."

[Carl]

Jagex doesn't want to promote it's competitors, that's the rub. I get that, but using perks to influence sites into what ads they run is I think wrong.

 

 

There was no perks involved?

 

They could have chosen to leave the adverts and nothing would be gained, nor lost. However, they removed them and a lot was gained, nothing was lost? What's the problem?

 

Read Hohbein's first post on page 6 again and perhaps again and you'll see the reasoning. Because I think you're missing out on something.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

No, I'm not. I don't care if what you did by removing the adverts has any adverse reactions and everyone goes off smooth willy nilly without a hitch. You let another company influence you into making the decision they wanted. I don't care if it's about adverts or anything else. You chose this action not because you thought it was a good idea to do, but because they thought it was a good idea to do.

[Romy]

Tip.It gains nothing from specifically running those other gaming ads. The only thing they generate for Tip.It is click-money.. but when they remove particular ads, they are replaced by other ads that generate the same thing! People click them, Tip.It gets a tiny bit of money. Doesn't matter if it's an Evony ad or a Funorb ad. That's where the issue is- people seem to think that those particular ads are beneficial to Tip.It, when in fact they're no more beneficial than the ads that will replace them. The major source of income for Tip.It most likely comes from donations, and the ads don't really benefit us that much in the first place, so replacing one that generates 20 cents with one that generates 10 cents isn't a big deal.

 

Selling out would be if Tip.It gained something beneficial from running those specific ads. There are also no imagined violations of honor or principle or what-have-you. Tip.It did something to benefit its community that had no negative side effects. Certain people think that any dealings with Jagex are to be treated with utmost caution, because Jagex is "the man" and they have a fixation with "sticking it" to "the man."

 

The problem is not only the ads themselves, it's the facts that-

1. Jagex even thought they should tell fansites what ads they should be having.

2. Jagex dictates that with a carrot and a stick- you do what they want, you get the carrot, you don't- you get the stick.

3. Jagex specified and elaborated on the criteria to grant fansites their ranks, and they didn't mention ads at all. Not only ads are a major part of their measure, it's one of the most influencing- A site that deserves platinum could easily settle for silver ONLY BECAUSE OF THE ADS!

 

Other than that... where do you get your data from? I highly doubt donations are more benificial than ads. I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely.

Oh, and admins claimed that changing the ads did not affect revenue.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

What is being said by the staff here is that because both sites get what they want and everything is fine and the ends justify the means.

[Lunar_Drifter]

No, I'm not. I don't care if what you did by removing the adverts has any adverse reactions and everyone goes off smooth willy nilly without a hitch. You let another company influence you into making the decision they wanted. I don't care if it's about adverts or anything else. You chose this action not because you thought it was a good idea to do, but because they thought it was a good idea to do.

 

The staff has said several times that they did what they wanted to do- get more content for the community with no negative side effects (other than the tedious burden of removing ads :rolleyes:). Jagex said "if you want this, monitor your ads better." If something is mutually beneficial and mutually non-harmful- where's the harm in that?!

 

 

Tip.It gains nothing from specifically running those other gaming ads. The only thing they generate for Tip.It is click-money.. but when they remove particular ads, they are replaced by other ads that generate the same thing! People click them, Tip.It gets a tiny bit of money. Doesn't matter if it's an Evony ad or a Funorb ad. That's where the issue is- people seem to think that those particular ads are beneficial to Tip.It, when in fact they're no more beneficial than the ads that will replace them. The major source of income for Tip.It most likely comes from donations, and the ads don't really benefit us that much in the first place, so replacing one that generates 20 cents with one that generates 10 cents isn't a big deal.

 

Selling out would be if Tip.It gained something beneficial from running those specific ads. There are also no imagined violations of honor or principle or what-have-you. Tip.It did something to benefit its community that had no negative side effects. Certain people think that any dealings with Jagex are to be treated with utmost caution, because Jagex is "the man" and they have a fixation with "sticking it" to "the man."

 

The problem is not only the ads themselves, it's the facts that-

1. Jagex even thought they should tell fansites what ads they should be having.

2. Jagex dictates that with a carrot and a stick- you do what they want, you get the carrot, you don't- you get the stick.

3. Jagex specified and elaborated on the criteria to grant fansites their ranks, and they didn't mention ads at all. Not only ads are a major part of their measure, it's one of the most influencing- A site that deserves platinum could easily settle for silver ONLY BECAUSE OF THE ADS!

 

Other than that... where do you get your data from? I highly doubt donations are more benificial than ads. I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely.

Oh, and admins claimed that changing the ads did not affect revenue.

 

1. Jagex said which ads they should not be having- which (as I've said), has no effect on the community or any imagined sense of pride.

2. Jagex didn't dictate- they didn't tell us what we were going to do. They offered us some goods based on the condition that we monitor our ads better. Would you disagree to someone giving you money on the terms that you better manage your money? It doesn't harm you in any way to manage your money better, and if your principle is "I don't manage my money because I'm sticking it to the man".. fine, be that way. Don't take the money so you can boost your rebellious-for-the-sake-of-rebellious pride.

3. They could elaborate more on the ads part since it is such a major point.

 

Ad revenue usually isn't much for a site, and I'm sure Tip.It gets more in donations than they do ad revenue (Ad blockers?). It's common sense to me.

And your last point solidified my point about the ad revenue not affecting much of anything.

[Romy]

No, I'm not. I don't care if what you did by removing the adverts has any adverse reactions and everyone goes off smooth willy nilly without a hitch. You let another company influence you into making the decision they wanted. I don't care if it's about adverts or anything else. You chose this action not because you thought it was a good idea to do, but because they thought it was a good idea to do.

 

The staff has said several times that they did what they wanted to do- get more content for the community with no negative side effects (other than the tedious burden of removing ads :rolleyes:). Jagex said "if you want this, monitor your ads better." If something is mutually beneficial and mutually non-harmful- where's the harm in that?!

 

 

Tip.It gains nothing from specifically running those other gaming ads. The only thing they generate for Tip.It is click-money.. but when they remove particular ads, they are replaced by other ads that generate the same thing! People click them, Tip.It gets a tiny bit of money. Doesn't matter if it's an Evony ad or a Funorb ad. That's where the issue is- people seem to think that those particular ads are beneficial to Tip.It, when in fact they're no more beneficial than the ads that will replace them. The major source of income for Tip.It most likely comes from donations, and the ads don't really benefit us that much in the first place, so replacing one that generates 20 cents with one that generates 10 cents isn't a big deal.

 

Selling out would be if Tip.It gained something beneficial from running those specific ads. There are also no imagined violations of honor or principle or what-have-you. Tip.It did something to benefit its community that had no negative side effects. Certain people think that any dealings with Jagex are to be treated with utmost caution, because Jagex is "the man" and they have a fixation with "sticking it" to "the man."

 

The problem is not only the ads themselves, it's the facts that-

1. Jagex even thought they should tell fansites what ads they should be having.

2. Jagex dictates that with a carrot and a stick- you do what they want, you get the carrot, you don't- you get the stick.

3. Jagex specified and elaborated on the criteria to grant fansites their ranks, and they didn't mention ads at all. Not only ads are a major part of their measure, it's one of the most influencing- A site that deserves platinum could easily settle for silver ONLY BECAUSE OF THE ADS!

 

Other than that... where do you get your data from? I highly doubt donations are more benificial than ads. I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely.

Oh, and admins claimed that changing the ads did not affect revenue.

 

1. Jagex said which ads they should not be having- which (as I've said), has no effect on the community or any imagined sense of pride.

2. Jagex didn't dictate- they didn't tell us what we were going to do. They offered us some goods based on the condition that we monitor our ads better. Would you disagree to someone giving you money on the terms that you better manage your money? It doesn't harm you in any way to manage your money better, and if your principle is "I don't manage my money because I'm sticking it to the man".. fine, be that way. Don't take the money so you can boost your rebellious-for-the-sake-of-rebellious pride.

3. They could elaborate more on the ads part since it is such a major point.

 

Ad revenue usually isn't much for a site, and I'm sure Tip.It gets more in donations than they do ad revenue (Ad blockers?). It's common sense to me.

And your last point solidified my point about the ad revenue not affecting much of anything.

 

1. I never said it has an effect on the community, you totally missed my point. The fact that Jagex felt the need to tell fansites what ads they should (or should not, whatever) have, is completely wrong. Tip.It is an independant site. I'd do the same thing if I were to take the choice (on Tip.It's part), because there's no reason not to. I'm just saying it's wrong on many levels (on Jagex's part).

2. Not agreeing to Jagex's deal would mean that- Saying Tip.It ingame will not be allowed, that Jagex will not acknowledge Tip.It as a safe site, regardless of whether or not it really is safe, and that Jagex will not acknowledge Tip.It is a "good" fansite. Agreeing to the deal would mean Jagex will acknowledge Tip.It as a safe site, will acknowledge Tip.It as a good fansite, will hand over some perks, etc.

They can't dictate ads by the original definition of "dictating" simply because Tip.It owes them nothing, but what they did here is dictating nonetheless.

3. Could elaborate? They never even mentioned it!

 

I wouldn't argue here as I don't have the data needed for that. But it still seems illogical to me that most of Tip.It's income comes from donations.

[SanNo1]

 

It's a Dutch game apparently. Kind of hypocrite if you ask me.

[Hippodo]

 

It's a Dutch game apparently. Kind of hypocrite if you ask me.

Looks Greek to me :razz:. Anyway, as has been said before, you can actually report these kinds of ads. So Jagex is actively trying to get rid of them, sometimes one just slips through the nets.

[Youmu]

Sigh... why didn't Tip It make it onto platinum? I've used most others on that list, and as far as I know, Tip It has always been the most awesome.

 

My post count is that high for a reason too, you know. (No, not spamming.)

 

Actually, I think only Tip It deserves platinum. The three in platinum currently should be moved down to gold or even silver.

[qeltar]

While I guess none of the conspiracy theorists will believe me when I say this - no, there's no big conspiracy going on and Jagex aren't out to gain control of our fansites.

This, of course, is a lie, and not even a very clever one at that. By insisting that fansites remove competitor ads, you are controlling what they do. Even if you don't directly try to control content, you are indirectly controlling and influencing these sites by imposing restrictions on them and threatening to remove your goodies from them if they don't do what you demand.

 

It would be nifty if those who keep throwing this "conspiracy" strawman around would actually learn what the word means. By definition, it refers to multiple parties working together for a particular end, usually in secret. That has nothing to do with this situation and never did.

 

This situation is not a conspiracy, it is just one party, Jagex, imposing its will on fansites.

 

Hohbein, every post of yours sounds like it came from a government bureaucrat: pleasant and flowery in demeanor, but ultimately conveying nothing aside from "this is our policy and we won't change it".

 

And that policy boils down to money. Jagex, a company that made $27,000,000 last year, can't handle the possibility of fansites making a few dollars off advertising other gaming sites. Most of these fansites make VERY little money, especially considering the amount of time it takes to run them. I know that I personally could make more flipping burgers for 5 hours a week than I've made off the 50+ hours a week I've devoted to my own site over the last six months.

 

These fansites are in it for the love of it, and they just need a little money to pay the bills and compensate them for a fraction of their time. And these fansites have helped build RS into what it is now, and in that regard have made money for Jagex. And the company responds by telling them they will be iced out if they don't remove ads for other companies, which in most cases means they get even less of the pittance they get now?

 

Stop pretending that what you are asking is reasonable. It is not. And stop pretending that there is some noble rationale for why you are excluding sites based on gaming ads. There IS no noble reason for it. The reason is GREED.

[Guthorm]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

[Romy]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

[Hippodo]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

I agree. This discussion isn't even between the whole of Tip.it anymore, but between Jagex and a few members which I shall not name.

[Romy]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

I agree. This discussion isn't even between the whole of Tip.it anymore, but between Jagex and a few members which I shall not name.

 

If I may, let me rephrase that. The issue is with Jagex. Some Tip.It'ers take good notice of that issue.

[SanNo1]

[spoiler=quotes]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

I agree. This discussion isn't even between the whole of Tip.it anymore, but between Jagex and a few members which I shall not name.

 

If I may, let me rephrase that. The issue is with Jagex. Some Tip.It'ers take good notice of that issue.

 

 

I agree, the issue is with Jagex. However, I can sympathize with their stand on this. From their point of view, they are purely helping the fansites. By listing them and give them several benefits they want to direct as much people as possible to them. As a company, it would not be wise to direct a large group of customers to a third party site which advertises a competative product.

 

Unfortenately, for us, this means that in essence they are saying: "if you want these benefits, you need to follow the exact rules we lay down", which in my book means that they are effectively controlling at least the largest fansites, and making them even bigger. The platinum sites will be more than happy with the extra support because it will make them much more popular, but this gives Jagex the oppurtunity to give them certain restrictions, with the biggest one probably being the ads.

 

I agree with tipit's decision on this one though, but it's a shame that one of the best sites isn't recognized as such because of issues irrelevant to its quality.

[Hippodo]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

I agree. This discussion isn't even between the whole of Tip.it anymore, but between Jagex and a few members which I shall not name.

 

If I may, let me rephrase that. The issue is with Jagex. Some Tip.It'ers take good notice of that issue.

Still, a large part of Tip.it is no longer participating in this rather controversial discussion.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

I agree. This discussion isn't even between the whole of Tip.it anymore, but between Jagex and a few members which I shall not name.

 

If I may, let me rephrase that. The issue is with Jagex. Some Tip.It'ers take good notice of that issue.

Still, a large part of Tip.it is no longer participating in this rather controversial discussion.

 

Mostly because we moved on the talking about the new skill and how much we dislike it. :mellow:

 

Maybe someone can make a little banner that says "We will not forget" in it's caption. :^_^:

[Romy]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

I agree. This discussion isn't even between the whole of Tip.it anymore, but between Jagex and a few members which I shall not name.

 

If I may, let me rephrase that. The issue is with Jagex. Some Tip.It'ers take good notice of that issue.

Still, a large part of Tip.it is no longer participating in this rather controversial discussion.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agreed with Tip.It's decision from the beginning. I just found the mere fact Jagex proposed forced such a thing, as extremely wrong and inappropriate.

[Hippodo]

Alright, can we just agree that the admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid?

 

Definitely. At least on my part- these are my thoughts exactly.

I agree. This discussion isn't even between the whole of Tip.it anymore, but between Jagex and a few members which I shall not name.

 

If I may, let me rephrase that. The issue is with Jagex. Some Tip.It'ers take good notice of that issue.

Still, a large part of Tip.it is no longer participating in this rather controversial discussion.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agreed with Tip.It's decision from the beginning. I just found the mere fact Jagex proposed forced such a thing, as extremely wrong and inappropriate.

Hence the agreement on " The admins made the most logical decision and the demand made by Jagex is stupid".