Fansite Support (Re-launch)

[Romy]

I completely understand where Qeltar, MHL, and others supporting their opinion, come from. It makes no sense for the company to dictate what fansites can advertise, much less rate the fansites by that measure, which they clearly did.

 

 

I doubt there was one second in history that Tip.It had lost it's "platinum" status- Jagex demoted Tip.It to silver on no valid basis. They have no right to do it, and shouldn't have done it, especially since that makes their measure extremely subjective and wrongly biased.

 

 

 

On the other hand, despite the situation being philosophically wrong, I believe Tip.It's choice is fairly acceptable (if the data supplied by the admins is correct), because:

1) The situation is reverseable.

2) Tip.It had only gained from this "deal", despite it being wrong.

3) Jagex did not dictate actual content.

 

 

 

To sum up- It's wrong on Jagex's part, they shouldn't have done it, but not accepting the deal on Tip.It's part would be rather too-ideological for no actual reason, and I bet that if a real reason will be brought up, Tip.It would not even consider staying.

[Will H]

Who claims the prisoners dilemma is theoretical? Unilateral cooperation is theoretical.

Utter nonsense. I'm amazed you would even suggest such a thing -- the counterexamples are too numerous to even list.

 

Good luck setting up a cooperative either way. you won't succeed, as there is so little to gain, and so many fansites to organize. With the largest contenders already platinum, they don't need you for anything, but you need them for all impact. It's simply not going to happen.

It must suck for you to go through life with such a defeatist, unempowered attitude. The world would suck just as much if everyone shared it.

 

Not only will such a cooperative not fail, but it *can't* fail. The objective wouldn't be to convince sites to stand up to Jagex -- since it's obvious few have the stones to do so -- but rather to make a more inclusive list that makes a priority out of serving fans and not Jagex.

 

I appreciate your solution, and it might come to that, but before there starts to be some kind of mutual distrust between Jagex and fansites... again, we should try to deal with this particular situation, lest Jagex becomes aware that they've made a mistake.

 

By the way, what do other fansites, especially the platinum ones, think about this? This might require the effort of more than tip.it here.

[Romy]

Who claims the prisoners dilemma is theoretical? Unilateral cooperation is theoretical.

Utter nonsense. I'm amazed you would even suggest such a thing -- the counterexamples are too numerous to even list.

 

Good luck setting up a cooperative either way. you won't succeed, as there is so little to gain, and so many fansites to organize. With the largest contenders already platinum, they don't need you for anything, but you need them for all impact. It's simply not going to happen.

It must suck for you to go through life with such a defeatist, unempowered attitude. The world would suck just as much if everyone shared it.

 

Not only will such a cooperative not fail, but it *can't* fail. The objective wouldn't be to convince sites to stand up to Jagex -- since it's obvious few have the stones to do so -- but rather to make a more inclusive list that makes a priority out of serving fans and not Jagex.

 

I appreciate your solution, and it might come to that, but before there starts to be some kind of mutual distrust between Jagex and fansites... again, we should try to deal with this particular situation, lest Jagex becomes aware that they've made a mistake.

 

By the way, what do other fansites, especially the platinum ones, think about this? This might require the effort of more than tip.it here.

 

I don't think Tip.It (the staff that is) would put much any effort into that...

[tortilliachp]

the counterexamples are too numerous to even list.

give me one that relates to this online situation, which is relevant in the terms you propose.

 

It must suck for you to go through life with such a defeatist, unempowered attitude. The world would suck just as much if everyone shared it.

 

Not only will such a cooperative not fail, but it *can't* fail. The objective wouldn't be to convince sites to stand up to Jagex -- since it's obvious few have the stones to do so -- but rather to make a more inclusive list that makes a priority out of serving fans and not Jagex.

 

yes, realism does impose certain limits. However, it is empowering to know nothing will come of a forlorn idea, abeit one of principle. it means i can spend my time where it matters, rather than where i hope it matters.

 

we are games though, we want the information. You can round up as many sites as you like, but we play runescape to 'scape, not to stand up to jagex. Therefore, the fans migrate to where the fans find what they require, just look at runescape wikia: they don't care, they know it doesn't matter if they're on some list or not, be it your list, or jagex's list. They have what they need to maintain users, and continuously be first out with guides to new areas, minigames and quests.

 

Market dynamics overide principle time and time again.

[Racheya]

Guys, before you start plotting the overthrow of Jagex please kindly remember it's JUST a bunch of adverts.

 

Who cares? I mean really, do you love Evony so much that you MUST see their adverts?

 

The only thing that people are arguing over now is pride and the supposed 'integrity' of Tip.It. There is no slippery slope and there are no financial issues, so this is what it comes down to. The ONLY reason Jagex didn't include us was their adverts. Was it petty? Yes, I'd say so. Is is such a big deal for us to remove them? No, it's not.

 

I don't think the integrity of Tip.It has been harmed at all. What's better? 'We came to an agreement with Jagex about the fansite issue and resolved it diplomatically between us' or 'Jagex asked us to do this little thing so we said NO because being rebellious and sticking it to the man is much better for us in the long term.'

[qeltar]

yes, realism does impose certain limits. However, it is empowering to know nothing will come of a forlorn idea, abeit one of principle. it means i can spend my time where it matters, rather than where i hope it matters.

You don't "know" anything -- far more unlikely ideas have succeeded despite objections from pompous naysayers. And principle does matter.

 

Racheya: I don't see any "diplomatic resolution" here. There was no compromise that I can discern: Jagex said "do this or else" and Tip.it said "yes sir".

[Tim]

Someone want to pull this knife out of my back?

 

I fail to comprehend how RuneHQ is Platinum, Their front page (all pages for that matter) Take too long to load, Their community (after the response from MSSW3/4) Is disgusting, and they have freaking illegal gold-selling ads on their damn page. Besides, We've done well so far without Jagex's help with our community, why should their foolhardy on our gaming adverts (which I have yet to see) make us worse then Golddigger adverts on RuneHQ?

 

That's my two-cents on this anyway...

[Racheya]

Yes, Jagex asked us to do something. The Tip.It admins pondered the decision and worked out that it was in the best interests of the site. It's BECAUSE extra time was spent making sure it wouldn't become a slippery slope that we were only put at gold.

 

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained. We'll be platinum soon enough.

[qeltar]

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

[Racheya]

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

But it ISN'T any of those things. Doing what's easy. expedient and self-serving would be to not only let game adverts, but gold selling adverts on the site. How is taking the time out to remove adverts for games easier than saying no to Jagex?

 

And maybe Jagex are using the leverage of letting sites become 'safe sites' but they have EVERY right to do that, and why not? It's beneficial for them to not have competitor ads running. It's beneficial for us to have our name as gold/platinum. So what's the problem?

[Kimberly]

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

 

Except not, as has been explained countless times throughout the thread.

 

At this point if you still feel the way you do, you're going about it the wrong way. If you want to cause change, you should be contacting Jagex, Administrators of fansites, etc. Not posting the same overdiscussed points (that have mostly been disproved, might I add) throughout the life of this thread.

 

I admire your fire and your sense of injustice, but it is impotent when you direct it in such a manner.

[Will H]

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

But it ISN'T any of those things. Doing what's easy. expedient and self-serving would be to not only let game adverts, but gold selling adverts on the site. How is taking the time out to remove adverts for games easier than saying no to Jagex?

 

And maybe Jagex are using the leverage of letting sites become 'safe sites' but they have EVERY right to do that, and why not? It's beneficial for them to not have competitor ads running. It's beneficial for us to have our name as gold/platinum. So what's the problem?

You can't just let Jagex think they can influence the content on this site, if they are using fansites as Runescape advertising branches, they are capable of properly influencing more content by the same system. A site can be safe and still have adverts for other games, which is why this is so irritating.We aren't just a Runescape fansite anyway, a significantly large portion of the tip.it community consist of people who don't play Runescape any more, and God forbid, play different games. We've had a few TF2 events, we talk about other MMOs (and often discuss concepts from those games and see possible applications in Runescape), and it's been good. Do you, tip.it, want that to be threatened?

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

 

Except not, as has been explained countless times throughout the thread.

 

At this point if you still feel the way you do, you're going about it the wrong way. If you want to cause change, you should be contacting Jagex, Administrators of fansites, etc. Not posting the same overdiscussed points (that have mostly been disproved, might I add) throughout the life of this thread.

 

I admire your fire and your sense of injustice, but it is impotent when you direct it in such a manner.

Sorry, what exactly has been disproved? I haven't seen any of that.

[qeltar]

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

 

Except not, as has been explained countless times throughout the thread.

Not a very convincing rebuttal.

 

Will: I guess some people think that you win an argument if you dogpile your opponent.

[ilovecuttingyews]

Not a very convincing rebuttal.

It's just as convincing as the same people saying the same things over and over for the last 10 pages....

[swordwarior]

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

 

Except not, as has been explained countless times throughout the thread.

Not a very convincing rebuttal.

 

Will: I guess some people think that you win an argument if you dogpile your opponent.

 

You do realize that a large majority is now ok with the arrangement made, the only person still fighting over this is you right? I understand that you have your morals and don't want the man pushing you around, but it's already been decided. They have started removing the adds. It's been said that it won't affect the sites income, nor will it pose a threat to any creative content on this site. I think if you truely have a moral issue with the agreement and your not just arguing because you like a good debate, then would it not be best to invest time to gather people for your own site, or perhaps a site that didn't deal with Jagex?

This is nothing personal, as i have liked stuff you had said before, but it seems that much better things can become of this if you directed yourself at other things.

[Racheya]

Tbh I can't see why people are still arguing when the situation has been explained.

Because some people care about more than just doing what is easy, expedient or immediately self-serving.

 

And Jagex "asked" Tip.it to do this in the same way that you would "ask" an unruly child to clean his bedroom -- do it or suffer the consequences.

 

Except not, as has been explained countless times throughout the thread.

Not a very convincing rebuttal.

 

Will: I guess some people think that you win an argument if you dogpile your opponent.

Brilliant rebuttal for you too, how you haven't responded to my post and especially how you won't answer the question 'So, what's the problem?' If you can't state clearly and exactly what is your problem with Jagex's fansite proposal then nothing can be done to see if your issues can be addressed.

 

There's no problem with money, effort or creative freedoms. All of these are secure and personally, other than 'well I don't like it!' I can't see a problem.

[qeltar]

I've already explained what I consider the problem to be multiple times. If you don't place any value on independence or standing up on principle, then my position obviously won't make any sense to you, but that's really your problem, not mine.

 

I'm done with this thread, since it's obviously pointless trying to get people to see the bigger picture when all they care about is what's good for them in the short term.

[Racheya]

Of course I understand it, but I don't see what exactly it's standing on principle against? Standing for the right to see boobs on Evony ads? Or just standing on the principle that Jagex fails and even being near them is automatically bad?

 

If the deal made things worse for Tip.It then I'd agree. If the deal said 'we give you stuff and then we want you to remove anything saying things against Jagex', then I'd stand on principle too. But standing against what though? Having a better community?

[das]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqXmaFPn604

 

 

Got to admit, i'm kinda happy to see a 20 page thread, I do think part of the problem is at this point people like Qeltar are bashing jagex's ethical or moral decision and not the tip.it administration descsion to go along with the request..

[Romy]

Of course I understand it, but I don't see what exactly it's standing on principle against? Standing for the right to see boobs on Evony ads? Or just standing on the principle that Jagex fails and even being near them is automatically bad?

 

If the deal made things worse for Tip.It then I'd agree. If the deal said 'we give you stuff and then we want you to remove anything saying things against Jagex', then I'd stand on principle too. But standing against what though? Having a better community?

 

I think you completely missed what he and others said.

 

 

 

The mere idea of Jagex asking to control a fansite's ads, for whatever reason, is flawed. Having them judging a site's quality over the ads is way over the top.

 

 

 

 

Simply put- Jagex is wrong.

 

A bit longer- Jagex is wrong, but personally, for reasons I stated on the last page, we're doing fine.

[Latinoking]

The part that REALLY BOTHERS me is that if you're on NOT their "good/safe list" they censor you (the fan-site) in-game for not complying with their demands. They've always abused the censor, but this is simply taking it to another level.

 

So because Zybez said no. They are now censored? Cool Move Jagex!

 

This "change" wasn't big anyways, so I'm glad that Tip.it is "safe" to say in-game without being scared of being muted. But I seriously hope the threat of being censored in-game doesn't make Tip.it a bad decision in the future.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Also, I love how they keep saying it was worth selling out cause we'll be Platinum soon.

 

As if Gold or Platinum matters when you're discussing principles.

 

From what I can tell,

 

Selling out for Gold: Wrong :thumbdown:

 

Selling out for Platinum: A-Okay. :thumbup:

 

Or...

 

Selling out for Money: Wrong :thumbdown:

 

Selling out for Concept Art, Moderator Interviews, and other random perks: Also A-Okay :thumbup:

[Guthorm]

Also, I love how they keep saying it was worth selling out cause we'll be Platinum soon.

 

As if Gold or Platinum matters when you're discussing principles.

 

From what I can tell,

 

Selling out for Gold: Wrong :thumbdown:

 

Selling out for Platinum: A-Okay. :thumbup:

 

Or...

 

Selling out for Money: Wrong :thumbdown:

 

Selling out for Concept Art, Moderator Interviews, and other random perks: Also A-Okay :thumbup:

 

See the thing is that I think the problem most of us are having is the fact right now is that Jagex actually made the demand. The deal is good, Tip did not sell out because according to the admins, there is no lose in making the deal. To be honest, if I was the sole admin of tip and Jagex approach me with the deal, I would make it in a heart beat. It benefits the community and the website as a whole and we lose absolutely nothing. Everybody seems to be on board for this at least, I am still a bit annoyed that Jagex actually made the demand but I think the admins made the right decision.

[Romy]

Also, I love how they keep saying it was worth selling out cause we'll be Platinum soon.

 

As if Gold or Platinum matters when you're discussing principles.

 

From what I can tell,

 

Selling out for Gold: Wrong :thumbdown:

 

Selling out for Platinum: A-Okay. :thumbup:

 

Or...

 

Selling out for Money: Wrong :thumbdown:

 

Selling out for Concept Art, Moderator Interviews, and other random perks: Also A-Okay :thumbup:

 

See the thing is that I think the problem most of us are having is the fact right now is that Jagex actually made the demand. The deal is good, Tip did not sell out because according to the admins, there is no lose in making the deal. To be honest, if I was the sole admin of tip and Jagex approach me with the deal, I would make it in a heart beat. It benefits the community and the website as a whole and we lose absolutely nothing. Everybody seems to be on board for this at least, I am still a bit annoyed that Jagex actually made the demand but I think the admins made the right decision.

 

Exactly my thoughts :).

[Pirate_Felix]

Cant believe the fansite with an own art forum is between this crap:

Runecrypt.com

Runetower.com

Runehints.com

RSNL.eu (Dutch)

Runepoli.org (Finnish)

Rscave.se (Swedish)

Runebr.com (Portuguese)

Runescape.pc.pl (Polish)