Economy Issues?

[Barihawk]

People seem to be complaining about two things when it comes to the economy: the soaring price of rares, and the flood of money into the Runescape economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rares:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shiva had a good idea in RSPM that functions on the premise of the roulette wheel drop system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drops are determined by a...roulette wheel. There is one spot on this wheel (1/64 chance) that is the "rare drop" wheel. This second wheel is flooded with gems, half keys (lesser chance) and continously lowering chances of getting a dragon med, spear, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shiva's idea was to have a SINGLE bar on the rare wheel (1/4946 chance...which is godawful rare) that leads to a new wheel. This wheel has many common rare drops on it (half keys, etc) but it also has two slots for each of: Christmas Crackers, Halloween Masks, Santa Hats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like PMG, its liek in infintiscmle chance of getting a rare item! From a Goblin-King Rex no less!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rare prices would slowly drop and stabilize like the Dragon Chain. Prices will still be good, but not rediculously high thanks to the manipulators.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Before you say, Shiva is a n00b who cant afford party hats: he has owned like 20 of them, and just bought dragon chain for the heck of it. :P)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Solution to inflation:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are going to hate my idea: A rares trader. But not some guy who buys and sells them for a few GP. It would require close control of the market, but Jagex can adjust prices on the rare store items to match the current demand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe even a little cheaper? Think about it...a guy saves up enough money to buy a white party hat. He thinks, "I could sell it to a player, or sell it to Larry and still have a little left over!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He would buy the hat, and walk away with a shiny prize. His 90-100 million would go *poof!*, gone forever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Before you call me a noob who cant afford rares, pat yourself on the back, because you are right. But then slap yourself, because my idea will in no way make you poorer :P)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So...yeah...money sink and cracker drops.

[LordSoultar]

While it may work, I don't like it because it would tick alot of people off. I just don't like ideas that mess with rares. The source of the inflation is High Alchemy, I say that they take it out. It would tick even more people off but at least it would prevent all the gp rushing into the economy.

[eliisgood]

well, messing with rares just really shouldn't be done, there could be, however, a way to eliminate money from the game.....I was thinking that perhaps there could be a lottery....anyone who puts 10k in gets a ticket.....10% of the total money just disappears, while someone else wins the 90%

[malo2]

Inflation has stopped a while ago now, and I wont even bother wasting my time and explaining why the phat idea is very dumb.

[Barihawk]

Inflation has stopped a while ago now, and I wont even bother wasting my time and explaining why the phat idea is very dumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then why bother making that post? The inflation is still going on, and is very rampant. There is too much money on the game, and not enough to spend it on while removing it from the game (money sinks).

[Toxicologist]

Personally, I believe the solution to holiday drops is not to introduce more to the game... but to slowly, eventually, maker them untradable, as to someone's idea before (can't remember who) about let every holiday drop have a counter on it, and each time it is traded add one to the counter, and once the counter is 100 or something it cannot be traded anymore (untradable). This idea can subdue a lot of uproar while slowly pulling the rug out under holiday rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rares trader idea... well, read the paragraph above. =)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For money sinks, I believe POHs with rents could soften it up a bit, but that's not coming too soon anyway. You could also make normal armours eventually, after use, get "damaged" (like the barrows armour and crystal bow does) and lose efficiency... that might help a bit also...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Malo2, seriously; most of your posts on these forums are rather uncontributive to the point of stating it yourself... if you get my meaning.

[Sharper]

You can't stop making the currently tradable rares untradable. That is completely unfair to those that have put alot of their GP into getting them, not just GP hording merchants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only feasible way I can think of controlling the prices of Rares is making a NPC Rares Trader that will buy your currently tradable rares from you fomr a set price to begin with, then depending on the Trader's current stock he would buy and sell for different prices. This way the Trader's prices would still be player controlled but it would remove the current price manipulation that occurs. I'm writing up a new thread to post about this later with more description of the idea :)

[Toxicologist]

the idea was a counter, so after 100 trades it's untradable. That way people know how many times can this be traded, and the final owner is one who wants it for looks instead of money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't my idea, it's someone else's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it's not unfair, since people know jhow many times it can be traded until it is not. So it's their own choice.

[lpinkus]

This is actually the best "solution" I've seen to the econpmy/rare problem. I appreciate your thought. However, it would indeed tick off the rare merchants, and I suppose that's not fair, since they've spent the time to earn their merchanting status. If you think rares are silly, like me, then the solution is much easier: ignore them. It really makes no difference to me whether a phat costs 1 gp or 100 million. I don't want one. Not for free, not at a cost. I don't want to get one by freak chance, nor by scamming. Done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

[Duke_Freedom]

Maybe even a little cheaper? Think about it...a guy saves up enough money to buy a white party hat. He thinks, "I could sell it to a player, or sell it to Larry and still have a little left over!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He would buy the hat, and walk away with a shiny prize. His 90-100 million would go *poof!*, gone forever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And *poof* the price of a white phat drops instantly below the price that NPC sells for. The market price can't stay higher then the price of the 'wholeseller', the NPC-sell value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rare prices fundamental is that they go up in price over time. The current prices are based on that fact for a great part too, because I'm sure that if rares didn't go up over time, they would be priced quite a bit lower. If you take away that fundamental, prices will instantly drop/crash quite a bit, as investors will see no need to have their money invested in rares anymore. If the spread between the NPC buy and the NPC sell value isn't too big, you won't stop inflation at all but instead create a huge extra inflation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Toxicologist, all that idea really does, like I posted on that thread then too, is speading up the rate at which rares are taken out of the economy. Thus your idea will lead to hyperinflation in the prices of rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Wishes all the anti-rares people were like lpinkus. ^^

[Barihawk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Wishes all the anti-rares people were like lpinkus. ^^

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am less concerned about the rares than I am removing as much money from the economy. If it were up to me, bronze-dragon armor would degrade like barrows and stuff like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But Shiva and I do agree that if all rares would made untradable or removed from the game permamently, we wouldnt cry. 500,000 people suscribe as members, and at least that many play the free game. About maybe...15%...of them can afford a party hat? I dont think that would make a dent in Jagex's pocketbook, and the holes would easily be filled by newer players with no clue what a rare item is. The only thing wrong with this is that Jagex cares too much for all of its players. I wish they would take a stand on this issue like they have with other unpopular notions like the crumble undead and magic short bow nerfs.

[jafnn]

I don't think the idea would be much good cause it would mostly affect the people that can make the most money at the moment and are saving up for a rare. It would mean they would lose there goal and make them spend there money on something else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of these people make indirect money. (as in getting the money from other players instead of generating it themselfs like selling whips) Also most of these people are either high leveled and/or are member, so they are basicly the people jagex shouldn't anger to much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

High alching is the only way I can think of at the moment that does generate money directly. I think this is mostly because of the increase of nature runes. It got doubled when switching from Classic to RS2, and its very popular runecrafted. I can't think about anything to counter the doubling at the switch so I think the awnser will have to be in the runecrafting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some idea's (which won't make to many people angry I think):

 

 

 

Give law crafting a small change so it becomes more popular then nature crafting.

 

 

 

Or maybe create more teleport spells (or other spells that use law runes) so there will be more demand for law runes.

 

 

 

Or introduce Death rune crafting and make that the most popular runecrafting.

[tintmangbpack]

I don't think the idea would be much good cause it would mostly affect the people that can make the most money at the moment and are saving up for a rare. It would mean they would lose there goal and make them spend there money on something else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of these people make indirect money. (as in getting the money from other players instead of generating it themselfs like selling whips) Also most of these people are either high leveled and/or are member, so they are basicly the people jagex shouldn't anger to much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

High alching is the only way I can think of at the moment that does generate money directly. I think this is mostly because of the increase of nature runes. It got doubled when switching from Classic to RS2, and its very popular runecrafted. I can't think about anything to counter the doubling at the switch so I think the awnser will have to be in the runecrafting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some idea's (which won't make to many people angry I think):

 

 

 

Give law crafting a small change so it becomes more popular then nature crafting.

 

 

 

Or maybe create more teleport spells (or other spells that use law runes) so there will be more demand for law runes.

 

 

 

Or introduce Death rune crafting and make that the most popular runecrafting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you do realize of course that there is death rune crafting. Even if you make it so law runes are easier to craft, it isn't going to effect people who high alch, the people who teleport constantly are doing solely for xp, where as a lot of people use high alch for xp it is also used for money and a way to get rid of all the magic shorts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't agree with the damaging armor idea. Although all armor should wear down. I don't think it is fair for a lvl 10 or so who just spent all his money on iron, to now constantly have to repair it. PLus it isn't the lower lvls who are creating all the money it is the high lvls, so why punish the low.

[Duke_Freedom]

It's funny how far people go and how rude and egoistic they can get over something they don't want, they don't get and they don't see the use of. Yet they don't mind saying things like "I don't care if Jagex does something that means a huge loss of time spend to 15% of the players".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you'd like it if something you worked for suddenly just disappeared because of some jealous people who can't ever seem to stop complaining about something that they have nothing to do with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next time you want to solve a 'problem' try to at least view it from the other people's perspective and don't just yell what you want yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So to repeat myself..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I wish all fanatic anti-rares people were like lpinkus, that would save a lot of useless discussion and pointless complaining towards Jagex. ^^

[Barihawk]

You want to know what I feel about Rares? Fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think they were a mistake that should have untradable from the start. They were gifts to the community, and the only reason they were tradable was so people could grab a few for thier friends. Then they became these status symbols of wealth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's look at it from Jagex's angle:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are sitting under the tree at Christmas and give your girlfriend a beautiful bracelet that cost you say $400. You include the reciept in case it is too small or large for her, or if she does not like the style and can trade it for something more to here taste. BAM! Two years later she breaks up with you and sells it on E-bay for $800.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, thats how rares turned out. In fact, the staff was so upset that thier gifts were being treated this way that they made the scythes and bunny ears untradable, which brought wining because the merchants were not able to make money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think its amazing that they are standing by thier gift and not making the things untradable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While it may be easy for a so-called "famous player" like yourself (I dont give a rats-tail about how wealthy you are. I wonder what the hell you spend all that money on anyways) to glorify people who share similar ideas with him and spit on those who try to reduce his wealth by criticizing an immoral trade of items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your somewhat right. I dont want a party hat, I've had a santa (and sold it because it was pointless) and do not wish to have a mask. I don't get why people are willing to pay millions upon millions of thier hard-earned money to get such a useless item. Which means, I dont see the use of rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem needs to be SOLVED, not negotiated to make sure everyone is happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at Guild Wars (which is slowly being infested by RS merchants). The party hat of Guild Wars is colored dyes, which have a use as they change your armor's colours. There is a dye trader in the largest city that relies completely on player input (just like Ipinkus! said, as well as I) and buys and sells the dyes at a fair price. The problem is, dyes are dropped by monsters, much in the way Shiva proposed in the original post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you'd like it if something you worked for suddenly just disappeared because of some jealous people who can't ever seem to stop complaining about something that they have nothing to do with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next time you want to solve a 'problem' try to at least view it from the other people's perspective and don't just yell what you want yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I have thought it over from both sides. Why do you think I hate them? I would much rather save up all my money for a set of Barrows Armor that actually serves me use. I am not going to waste hours of my free time making digital money to buy something that serves no purpose but to cause me to turn off public chat because people associate the item I bought with incredible wealth. Im sure your public and private chat is turned to Friends Only, Duke. Otherwise you would have hundreds of people PMing you asking you the weather, if they can buy something, or asking for Phr33 St00f.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am happy with all three communication options set to "public" and having to struggle just to get a set of barrows armor. I've never fallen for "get rich quick" schemes and train my butt off to raise skills (and make money in the process). Its been 14 months since I first started this character, and I am only level 91 with 1223 total and 950k in the bank. I guess that makes me an ignorant fool, since I dont merchant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, I have been rude and egocentric. Guess what, so have you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And when you say to think about the other side, think about if you were Andrew or Paul, and having your bracelet sold on E-bay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the topic is Moneysinks, thank you very much. Not on if Party hats should be taken out of the game or not, since I NEVER SAID THAT in the original and main post. I merely said it would not affect me in the slightest if that happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for getting off topic in my own topic.

[shade_bandyt]

why would anybody sell their rares to this npc if he existed? rares are good investments because of player-to-player trades. an npc buying phats and selling them for less than he paid for it means even more easy money for whoever owns one (just sell and buy back for a profit) and cause the demand for phats to skyrocket EVEN MORE!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

other than making rares untradable and jagex just paying people cash for the hats, masks, sants, etc they own (like 5% above current market price) there is nothing that can practically be done to affect the rare inflation rate

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

at the same time i think there need to be some way for players to give back to runescape what they take freely. the natural resources are infinite, so its inevitable that everybody will accumulate wealth the longer they play. and money doesnt leave a player, so everybody gets richer all the time, and everything goes up. some form of tax or expenses would help this problem

[Barihawk]

why would anybody sell their rares to this npc if he existed? rares are good investments because of player-to-player trades. an npc buying phats and selling them for less than he paid for it means even more easy money for whoever owns one (just sell and buy back for a profit) and cause the demand for phats to skyrocket EVEN MORE!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your taking someone else's suggestion. The rare trader would function like a specialty shop. You buy a tinderbox for 11 gp and you can sell it back for 5. The idea is not to remove party hats from the game, its to remove hard cash, which is what the people flaming me seem not to get. I am sure people would sell thier hats to players, not to the rares trader, since they would get more money. However, players who have worked hard to buy a hat can do it without hours of sitting in Falador World 2. The Rares trader would function exactly like a player merchant, but just serving as a money sink. The price would be completely player-set. Jagex would just have to assign a staff member to monitor prices and update them everyday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So really, yall are overreacting over nothing. My idea was exactly like what Ipinkus! posted. No removal of hats unless someone is stupid enough to sell them to the rares trader. Only like 1-3 hats would be in stock at a given time, so its not like a flood of party hats that would crash the economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and Duke:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Wishes all the anti-rares people were like lpinkus. ^^

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is actually the best "solution" I've seen to the econpmy/rare problem. I appreciate your thought. However, it would indeed tick off the rare merchants, and I suppose that's not fair, since they've spent the time to earn their merchanting status. If you think rares are silly, like me, then the solution is much easier: ignore them. It really makes no difference to me whether a phat costs 1 gp or 100 million. I don't want one. Not for free, not at a cost. I don't want to get one by freak chance, nor by scamming. Done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with Ipinkus! and you. Read the original post before you flame, Duke. My post is not about phats or rares, its about money sinks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The NPC trader is not a wholesaler, he will sell for the same amount as players, and that price will change everyday, just like the real prices.

[tintmangbpack]

One thing i have noticed while reading the millions of these inflation threads, is most, if not all, the inflation is centered around things that can only be aquired by trading, eg. phats, and not things like whips or d armor or barrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically what i am saying is let the merchants waste their time on selling phats, and instead of flaming them and complaining because you are to poor to own one, just focus on the things you enjoy and work on getting rares that are dropped because usaully these stabillize after a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm tired of people using inflation to flame merchants and phats owners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And NO i do not own a phat.

[Barihawk]

One thing i have noticed while reading the millions of these inflation threads, is most, if not all, the inflation is centered around things that can only be aquired by trading, eg. phats, and not things like whips or d armor or barrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically what i am saying is let the merchants waste their time on selling phats, and instead of flaming them and complaining because you are to poor to own one, just focus on the things you enjoy and work on getting rares that are dropped because usaully these stabillize after a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm tired of people using inflation to flame merchants and phats owners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And NO i do not own a phat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never intentionally flamed merchants or party hat owners, more power to them. I dont agree with the trade of these items, but I take Ipinkus!'s advice and ignore them. I just think there is too much money in the game. Its unfair to the merchants, because just as they get enough money to buy a hat, the price shoots up again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say I am too poor to own one...of course I am. Ive already stated that I dont want one, much better things to spend my meager earnings on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact, Anarith has owned many party hats, and he pretty much stated that first paragraph. I dont see anybody flaming him. Oh yeah, thats right...he's a rich level 115 with 85 slayer...compared to a pathetic level 91? The point of this paragraph is...I get really annoyed about the people who spam inflation topics saying that people who post inflation topics are too poor to afford a party hat and therefore hate them.

[tintmangbpack]

 

 

 

I never intentionally flamed merchants or party hat owners, more power to them. I dont agree with the trade of these items, but I take Ipinkus!'s advice and ignore them. I just think there is too much money in the game. Its unfair to the merchants, because just as they get enough money to buy a hat, the price shoots up again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say I am too poor to own one...of course I am. Ive already stated that I dont want one, much better things to spend my meager earnings on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact, Anarith has owned many party hats, and he pretty much stated that first paragraph. I dont see anybody flaming him. Oh yeah, thats right...he's a rich level 115 with 85 slayer...compared to a pathetic level 91? The point of this paragraph is...I get really annoyed about the people who spam inflation topics saying that people who post inflation topics are too poor to afford a party hat and therefore hate them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In case you didn't notice i said ignoring the merchants is the best way as well. I agree with an idea of money sinks but they would need to be implemented in was that isn't just targeted towards one group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't just refering to your topic i was refering to all these topics which would just become phat owners against non phats owners. I'm sorry that you thought i was just trying to flame you. it wasn't my intention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh by the way i am in favor of your ideas.

[eliisgood]

Personally, I believe the solution to holiday drops is not to introduce more to the game... but to slowly, eventually, maker them untradable, as to someone's idea before (can't remember who) about let every holiday drop have a counter on it, and each time it is traded add one to the counter, and once the counter is 100 or something it cannot be traded anymore (untradable). This idea can subdue a lot of uproar while slowly pulling the rug out under holiday rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I quite like this idea.....it would let people trade it for awhile, but then someone would end up with it later for good.....I suppose you could still drop it and someone could pick it up?

[Barihawk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In case you didn't notice i said ignoring the merchants is the best way as well. I agree with an idea of money sinks but they would need to be implemented in was that isn't just targeted towards one group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't just refering to your topic i was refering to all these topics which would just become phat owners against non phats owners. I'm sorry that you thought i was just trying to flame you. it wasn't my intention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh by the way i am in favor of your ideas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I am sorry that my idea is targetting a single group. It seems any effective money sink is unpopular to whatever group it is aimed at. Like someone said, normal armor repairs would be a good money sink, but it would not be fair to lower levels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, there is no way to create effective money sinks without ticking people off. Thanks for the input and support.

[Junkieman]

I'll admit, and apologise, ive read 1 and half posts of this thread as im in a rush. But inflation, inflation happens in all economies, deal with it. The only reason it really matters in the real world, is that it alters the value of money due to the interdependance of currencies(dollar, pound, exchange rates etc), or at least, thats my impression for now.

[Barihawk]

I'll admit, and apologise, ive read 1 and half posts of this thread as im in a rush. But inflation, inflation happens in all economies, deal with it. The only reason it really matters in the real world, is that it alters the value of money due to the interdependance of currencies(dollar, pound, exchange rates etc), or at least, thats my impression for now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take gas as an example of inflation:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I was born, gas cost $0.86 per gallon. When I started driving 16 years later, it was $1.25. Right now, it is $1.99. Why is it so high after 4 years? Because situations around the world (war, 9/11, Katrina, etc) caused prices to go up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its the same with Runescape, except odd. People say there are fewer rares in circulation which somehow doubles thier worth in 4 months, but I am getting off topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is too much money coming in from high alchemy. Real world economies do not have magic to make instant money. The same is moderately true of the RS economy. We dont have a gold standard, so the value of money is in each person's head. People pay too much for an item and BAM! The price increases immediately.

[Duke_Freedom]

Ok I'm gonna stop posting here as this discussion is going nowhere. Perhaps if you have the time and patience you'd like to read this thread which involved a huge, civilized, discussion between lpinkus and me about this same topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=251 ... re&start=0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps your opinion may change a bit then.