Economy Issues?

[Barihawk]

Ok I'm gonna stop posting here as this discussion is going nowhere. Perhaps if you have the time and patience you'd like to read this thread which involved a huge, civilized, discussion between lpinkus and me about this same topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=251 ... re&start=0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps your opinion may change a bit then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since Ipinkus! and I have yet the same opinion on rares in that thread, too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps your opinion on this topic will change when you get on topic and read that it has no effect on party hats and rares, unless you read what Shiva said. If you have something wrong with the monsters dropping crackers, you can spam his inbox or something, which he would not appreciate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am sorry you have your ego to nurse, and cant be bothered to read things unless it says "party hat" or "money".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, it felt nice to be rude.

[jafnn]

 

 

 

you do realize of course that there is death rune crafting. Even if you make it so law runes are easier to craft, it isn't going to effect people who high alch, the people who teleport constantly are doing solely for xp, where as a lot of people use high alch for xp it is also used for money and a way to get rid of all the magic shorts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok I might not know all about p2p runecrafting, but I think you are missing my point. If you could make more (indirect) money making laws or deaths then while making natures would, then less people would craft natures.

 

 

 

Every nature which enters the game has a high chance of being used in the high alchemy spell, which then turns into gp.

 

 

 

If less natures are crafted, less gp could be generated by those natures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe creating new (useable) spells which use nature runes could decrease the chance natures are used to high alch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also I think carpentry might help against the inflation, because it will cause less yews (as long as yews will have a decent part in carpentry) to be used for fletching, and so less yew bows to be alched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok my idea's might not be good, but all I'm saying is the inflation is because of the high alching and should be solved there and not by messing arround with rares. (which the origonal idea's are doing.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An other thing I would like to note is, the problem can and should be resorted without causing to much people to complain. If you think otherwise, then please explain why it can't be done.

[Barihawk]

Thanks Jelleh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For those of you who havent read the first post, the idea is to get money out of the economy. My simple idea was a rares trader, with prices adjusted based on player prices (which means no loss to merchants at all) and just provides a convenience for people buying a party hat and not wanting to merchant. The hats stay the same price (hell, maybe even rise due to enterprising merchants) and money is removed from the economy en masse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesnt even have to be a rares trader, let your imagination go wild. We just need a hardcore money sink, since Miscellania and Barrows are not getting the job done.

[Junkieman]

 

I'll admit, and apologise, ive read 1 and half posts of this thread as im in a rush. But inflation, inflation happens in all economies, deal with it. The only reason it really matters in the real world, is that it alters the value of money due to the interdependance of currencies(dollar, pound, exchange rates etc), or at least, thats my impression for now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take gas as an example of inflation:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I was born, gas cost $0.86 per gallon. When I started driving 16 years later, it was $1.25. Right now, it is $1.99. Why is it so high after 4 years? Because situations around the world (war, 9/11, Katrina, etc) caused prices to go up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its the same with Runescape, except odd. People say there are fewer rares in circulation which somehow doubles thier worth in 4 months, but I am getting off topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is too much money coming in from high alchemy. Real world economies do not have magic to make instant money. The same is moderately true of the RS economy. We dont have a gold standard, so the value of money is in each person's head. People pay too much for an item and BAM! The price increases immediately.

 

 

 

Yeah, i wasnt saying inflation only happens because of external economies, i said thats why it matters alot more in the real world. It WILL happen in any sort of economy, it just does, and I have no problems with your idea, i think it could work, but im not too bothered because im not a big fan of buying/selling rares, it'd be nice to have one, but unless i pick one up im not buying one.

 

 

 

My point was that inflation will happen, and I wish people would stop complaining(although sometimes I have too). There are ways to slow it, but not alot of them are applicable to runescape, but the theory behind this is solid(providing my grasping of it isnt wobbly).

 

 

 

I liked the roulette idea, and not entirely sure i fully understoon the npc idea and prices like. I dont think high alching should be removed from the game either, i swear its been around since forever, just theres more people and more higher level mages and runecrafting, which leads to it happening more. The money has to get into the economy from somewhere, and sometimes you just can't sell your product(1k yew longs? what you gonna do with them? Sell each individually, it'll take ages). For the single fact that the runescape economy is a stand alone sort of economy, with no real sub economies, I dont see any problem in extra money coming in, as inflation compensates for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:As soon as posting this message, it took me back to the first post, and it suddenly made sense. I thought you were suggested larry the hat man BUYS rares off players. But unless im mistaken, you meant players buy off him? This would work, cos they're raising in price as they get rarer, and put some back in should hopefully drop the prices AND the money goes out of the economy. This idea actually makes perfect sense now that i understand it better!

[LordSoultar]

If it is a money sink that you're looking for then how is this for one? Jagex creates a type of armor and weapons for each class that is better then dragon, barrows, and every other one before. It would not have to be repaired like barrows too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The part that makes it a large money is that it is untradable and can only be bought from a NPC for alot of money. It would cost 5m per bar that you usually use when smithing an item. So a plate body would cost 25m as it normally takes 5 bars to make it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, I know that it's a horrible idea. But at least it's a step in the right direction.

[Barihawk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:As soon as posting this message, it took me back to the first post, and it suddenly made sense. I thought you were suggested larry the hat man BUYS rares off players. But unless im mistaken, you meant players buy off him? This would work, cos they're raising in price as they get rarer, and put some back in should hopefully drop the prices AND the money goes out of the economy. This idea actually makes perfect sense now that i understand it better!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats, you now belong to the 5 people who have posted on this thread who actually get the idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's really no point in selling hats to the trader, since you would get less money from him than you would get from other players. It would'nt even drop prices that much, because it is a gradual release of the item, and a white party hat from Larry would still cost 90 million (or whatever the price is now).

[lpinkus]

Ok I'm gonna stop posting here as this discussion is going nowhere. Perhaps if you have the time and patience you'd like to read this thread which involved a huge, civilized, discussion between lpinkus and me about this same topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=251 ... re&start=0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps your opinion may change a bit then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, those were the days :) By the way, I take offense to beng called a "fanatic" anti-rare guy. I'm just opposed to them; I don't want to curse them to h-e-double hockey sticks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Barihawk, I really do like the way you presented some of your ideas, but I really don't think it's fair to expect JAGeX to "fix" the problem immediately. As we all know, the rares were indeed first dropped just for fun, but it was a perfectly flawed little idea that grew into the rare market we know today, and thus backing JAGeX into a corner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will also say I used to post that JAGeX was against the marketing of rares. Perhaps they still are, but when I saw that cut-scene of the wise old man in draynor, I'm wasn't so sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I'll scare the rare owners. Maybe the continuing story of this wise old man won't be quest related; Perhaps it will be that he suddenly takes all the rares away one day. Hee hee hee :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, I do trust that if JAGeX had a truly sensible/neutral way to get rid of the rares/make them untradable, they'd do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and just a minor point, since I've been quoted quite a bit, my username is L-pinkus, I just don't capitalize it :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

[Barihawk]

I still think the wise old man scene is just making fun of the greed over those hats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im glad I have your support, and another person who cares to read things on the issue at hand instead of getting all worked up and offended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I will try to remember the "l" :P.

[Duke_Freedom]

Lol, those were the days :) By the way, I take offense to beng called a "fanatic" anti-rare guy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, taking it back ^^.. I actually ment you were somewhat fanatic early in the thread I pointed too though, sorry if you disagree with that too :P. And yeah it definately was a great discussion back then. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for this thread.. Discussion is not done by only respecting and listening to people who agree with you. ;)

[lpinkus]

 

Lol, those were the days :) By the way, I take offense to beng called a "fanatic" anti-rare guy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, taking it back ^^.. I actually ment you were somewhat fanatic early in the thread I pointed too though, sorry if you disagree with that too :P. And yeah it definately was a great discussion back then. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for this thread.. Discussion is not done by only respecting and listening to people who agree with you. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I guess I was a fanatic at first. But now I save those feelings for when my pie crusts don't roll out right. Aaaargh!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also agree that there needs to more real "discussion." Unfortunately, I don't see it happening on these forums anytime soon. I'm sure if I posted any new topic with the word "rare," it would somehow turn into a flame-o-rama.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

[Barihawk]

 

Lol, those were the days :) By the way, I take offense to beng called a "fanatic" anti-rare guy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, taking it back ^^.. I actually ment you were somewhat fanatic early in the thread I pointed too though, sorry if you disagree with that too :P. And yeah it definately was a great discussion back then. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for this thread.. Discussion is not done by only respecting and listening to people who agree with you. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would respect your discussions if they were on topic. I thought you would have some very nice views on money sinks. Feel free to talk about them, even if they are completely different ideas than mine. I would like to hear it, just realize that my ideas have nothing to do with devaluing the hats. I wouldnt want to put merchants out of a job.

[malo2]

 

Inflation has stopped a while ago now, and I wont even bother wasting my time and explaining why the phat idea is very dumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then why bother making that post? The inflation is still going on, and is very rampant. There is too much money on the game, and not enough to spend it on while removing it from the game (money sinks).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it has already stopped increasing, just wait for it to settle.

[LordSoultar]

 

 

Inflation has stopped a while ago now, and I wont even bother wasting my time and explaining why the phat idea is very dumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then why bother making that post? The inflation is still going on, and is very rampant. There is too much money on the game, and not enough to spend it on while removing it from the game (money sinks).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it has already stopped increasing, just wait for it to settle.

 

 

 

No it has not stopped increasing. Barrows repair fees were a step in the right direction, but they aren't nearly enough to balance out the hundreds of millions of gp brought into the day each day by high alchemy.

[Barihawk]

The world 66 law company makes in theory 272 million laws a week (assuming 50 crafters at any given time at maximum productivity working 24/7, which is pretty much the case at any given time).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As this illustrates, High Alchemy is not the only way inflation occurs. Luckily, most of these laws are removed via teleportation. High Alchemy does not have this luxury.

[LordSoultar]

How would the laws they are making cause inflation? They are not creating new gp like when you cast high alchemy.

[eliisgood]

I know that this is not terribly much on topic, but did anyone look at my lottery idea? I really do think that it would work (it is on the first page).

[Junkieman]

How would the laws they are making cause inflation? They are not creating new gp like when you cast high alchemy.

 

 

 

Increases the value of lots of blank rune essence, converting something of lower value to that of higher value, in essence the same as what alchemy does.

 

 

 

I did read the lottery idea, I liked it. I think I even posted in it.

[Lime_Mercury]

I've always been against the removal or the major modification of the rares "market".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is due to a little ignorance of my own. Maybe I hear it as the "solution" to the rares "problem". But my ignorance comes as in that I can't figure out why it's a problem!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now if someone were able to convince me that there is a problem, and show me what the problem is, I would come up with my best guess as to what would solve it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But honestly, I don't see one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Duke and I have spoken on the economy a few times here and there, and he has one of the few opinions that I agree with, especially when people talk about jealousy or being inconsiderate.

[shade_bandyt]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:As soon as posting this message, it took me back to the first post, and it suddenly made sense. I thought you were suggested larry the hat man BUYS rares off players. But unless im mistaken, you meant players buy off him? This would work, cos they're raising in price as they get rarer, and put some back in should hopefully drop the prices AND the money goes out of the economy. This idea actually makes perfect sense now that i understand it better!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats, you now belong to the 5 people who have posted on this thread who actually get the idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's really no point in selling hats to the trader, since you would get less money from him than you would get from other players. It would'nt even drop prices that much, because it is a gradual release of the item, and a white party hat from Larry would still cost 90 million (or whatever the price is now).

 

 

 

hmmmm... bari, im also reviewing your idea. ok, say a white party hat is like 50 million on the market, on average.. instead of walking around asking players to buy my party hat for 50 mil, i could get my 50 mill from the npc hat trader. is that right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also, if this hat trader works like any other shop, then buying from hime would mean spending about 4 times the market price, since all shops make a ridiculous mark up on buy/selling the same item. so if theres a white party hat sitting in the shop syock, its gonna cost you nearly 200 million. that would make sure that that hat never returns into the market

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

of course, not all merchants will want to go this route, but many would. this might also turn off buyers from rare trading, since the option would amost inevitably stabilize the price of rares. and more merchants might rather hold on to their rares in hopes that the npc updates at a higher price later

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the other issue is jagex having somebody constantly monitoring the price of all rares on a daily basis. short term rare merchants make their money by buying low (through haggling or trading for non-cash items) and selling high. if i trade 400 rune ores for a santa, this price cant be traced by the npc, since the shop value for the ores is way lower than the market value. a lot of vigilance would be needed to keep these prices up to date. even the current market value is only a rough average, since it could be +/- a mill or 2 depending on the buyer, seller and location, peak time, world, etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the npc could also be used to manipulate the market, since the average guy would use the shop as a guide to see how much he should sell for. also, he would most likely try to sell his rare on the market for slightly higher than the npc would pay, otherwise there would be no point in him merchanting to lose money or waste his time to get the same amount as the shop price. keeping up with the price would be a tricky job, to put it mildly

[Junkieman]

There isnt a big markup on some things compared to speciality shops, such as raw fish for example. As for the Bari's idea,

 

 

 

hmmmm... bari, im also reviewing your idea. ok, say a white party hat is like 50 million on the market, on average.. instead of walking around asking players to buy my party hat for 50 mil, i could get my 50 mill from the npc hat trader. is that right?

 

 

 

Nearly, the market price of players to players would be 50 mil. But you can get one of the npc for less than that, maybe 45-48 mil(a saving of 2mil is pretty substantial as it is). This then takes 45-48mil out of the runescape economy, and you have that party hat that you always wanted because it looks cool to wear. Some people would at first take advantage of this to merchant, but due to the fact it is now a slightly less limited luxury, its price should fall, and the money paid to the npc guy leaves the economy.

[technology89]

I have an idea modified from the npc rares trader... Let's say he (the rare trader) buys all rares for a ridiculously high price, let's say 1 billion gp. All merchants would sell to this person who would delete them immediately. Because no player could in my imagination keep up with that extraordinary anoumt of inflation, and any one with half a brain would sell their rare; the price would soon be high that the rares become priceless and nearly extinct in the economy. If people wanted to still wear a rare, this npc would sell replicas at 10 gp each that look just like the real thing, except their name on trade screens say replica of _______.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, combined with a method to remove the flood of gp made by selling rares for a billion gp would help cap inflation. I also liked the idea of alternate ways to use natures in order to deter high alching.

[tintmangbpack]

I have an idea modified from the npc rares trader... Let's say he (the rare trader) buys all rares for a ridiculously high price, let's say 1 billion gp. All merchants would sell to this person who would delete them immediately. Because no player could in my imagination keep up with that extraordinary anoumt of inflation, and any one with half a brain would sell their rare; the price would soon be high that the rares become priceless and nearly extinct in the economy. If people wanted to still wear a rare, this npc would sell replicas at 10 gp each that look just like the real thing, except their name on trade screens say replica of _______.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, combined with a method to remove the flood of gp made by selling rares for a billion gp would help cap inflation. I also liked the idea of alternate ways to use natures in order to deter high alching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This wouldn't work because very rich players wouldn't want a replica they would want the real thing and would begin to buy them for even higher prices from merchants with the foresight to see that this will not work if they wait a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with barihawk because being able to buy them for one set price would greatly help in stablizing the market.

[eliisgood]

I have an idea modified from the npc rares trader... Let's say he (the rare trader) buys all rares for a ridiculously high price, let's say 1 billion gp. All merchants would sell to this person who would delete them immediately. Because no player could in my imagination keep up with that extraordinary anoumt of inflation, and any one with half a brain would sell their rare; the price would soon be high that the rares become priceless and nearly extinct in the economy. If people wanted to still wear a rare, this npc would sell replicas at 10 gp each that look just like the real thing, except their name on trade screens say replica of _______.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, combined with a method to remove the flood of gp made by selling rares for a billion gp would help cap inflation. I also liked the idea of alternate ways to use natures in order to deter high alching.

 

 

 

this is pretty much the worst idea that I have heard so far.....A MILLION GP?!?!? Are you kidding me? Sure, it would get rid of the party hats and other rares, but then pretty much everything that there is in the game would be totally useless *shudders* the economy would be totally dead in less than a day! :shock:

[Barihawk]

 

I have an idea modified from the npc rares trader... Let's say he (the rare trader) buys all rares for a ridiculously high price, let's say 1 billion gp. All merchants would sell to this person who would delete them immediately. Because no player could in my imagination keep up with that extraordinary anoumt of inflation, and any one with half a brain would sell their rare; the price would soon be high that the rares become priceless and nearly extinct in the economy. If people wanted to still wear a rare, this npc would sell replicas at 10 gp each that look just like the real thing, except their name on trade screens say replica of _______.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, combined with a method to remove the flood of gp made by selling rares for a billion gp would help cap inflation. I also liked the idea of alternate ways to use natures in order to deter high alching.

 

 

 

this is pretty much the worst idea that I have heard so far.....A MILLION GP?!?!? Are you kidding me? Sure, it would get rid of the party hats and other rares, but then pretty much everything that there is in the game would be totally useless *shudders* the economy would be totally dead in less than a day! :shock:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No kidding. Having all that money influx into the economy would drastically raise prices on non-store items like treasure trails and barrows. That is what we DO NOT want to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My idea is not for the intent of removing hats from the game (selling price is less than buying price), it is to remove money from the game.

[technology89]

If you didn't notice I said

This, combined with a method to remove the flood of gp made by selling rares for a billion gp would help cap inflation. I also liked the idea of alternate ways to use natures in order to deter high alching.