Napoleonic Hegemony

[Icuownage]

When did you have 30 million O_o? Your country hasn't got that many provinces :S.

[Wisp]

When did you have 30 million O_o? Your country hasn't got that many provinces :S.

Spending only about 1m or 2m first round, then a budget reset. So like... 28m

[Nero]

Retech, any player talking in absolutes about what will happen is merely posturing. What was your decision for this random event again?

 

Increasing taxes is probably a bad option, as your nobles seem to be proud russians and so they will be a bit annoyed when they have a huge tax increase because they were over labouring non-russians. It's basically racism. Also high tax rates is one of the main reasons I think the American's rebelled.

 

Anyway budget has reset correct?

 

Okay, I up all of the previous research fields to 1 million, meaning I am spending 5 million on research.

 

I spend 5.5 Million on new troops

 

1000 Lancers

500 Hussars

5 Cannons

 

For my redcoats.

 

Before I colonise these areas

 

 

I send my redcoats into scout out and remove any hostile natives, they're all offered 100K worth of jewels and promise that we shall preserve areas for them to live at.

 

I then colonise these areas for 9 million.

 

All successful. Problem though...

 

Dusty, what happens to my treasury/army? Or what do I have now. Also, would it be possible to reclaim the royal treasury of about 30m at this point (I think) If I win?

You have a separate treasury of 10m. You can steal the royal treasury if you'd like though :P

 

(In case anyone is curious, Doom is not playing as France any longer, but as Revolutionary France)

 

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Also, Austria-Hungary has colonized 5 colonies in Australia. There was a bit of confusion at first when the ship captain received his orders to colonize Africa, but thankfully the orders were accompanied by a map so he went off to Australia.

[Retech]

How many natives even live in Alaska? (And the neighboring areas around Alaska)

 

 

If the number of able-bodied men is too few to be a threat (maybe less than five thousand?), then I inform the nobles that they can do as they please, but they have to deal with any revolts themselves. The imperial government also suggests that the natives are only worked reasonably, so that they stay alive longer and trap more furs over the long run. Basically, we're not forcing them but it's encouraged.

 

I'll spend a hundred thousand supplying the natives with blankets and such.

[archimage_a]

There is quite a strong arguement to say that people who kill large furry animals, for their furs, can probably use these furs as blankets/clothes and other fabric based neccessities...

[Retech]

It would probaly be more profitable to give them cheaper wool-based items and sell the furs.

[archimage_a]

Of course offcuts of fur wouldn't need to be shipped across the Pacific for the Natives....And there is 'probably' a lot of frozen Russian Serfs who would benefit from that wool blankets produced in Russia...

 

What I would do...supposing it made a difference...would be to make cheap blankets from offcuts of fur and ship them to Russia, and provide Russian Serfs with them...

 

Since the rich probably don't want a fur that has been badly cut...and, providing you paid for it, the nobles would(might/possibly/probably) be happy to be profiting from something that used to be useless(probably).

 

Of course this is purely speculation...And since historic social norms don't apply, seemingly...anything could happen...

[Retech]

Well the good fur from Alaska could then be sold on the world market, and some of the proceeds could then be used to buy wool for the serfs. :)

[Wisp]

How about we let Dusty settle this? Maybe a random event or something.

 

French Peasants continue getting angrier.

[archimage_a]

So the fur you are, probably, already selling, will be sold to buy wool, from the Serfs, probably, to sell to the Serf(probably) weavers, to make into blankets(probably) for the Serfs...seemingly.

[Wisp]

Retech:

Here's a solution.

Trade manufactured products (guns, strong liquor, etc.) to the natives in exchange for furs. There aren't that many natives there, so they can probably make blankets themselves, afterall, they don't *need* to sell all of their furs.

[Retech]

Errrr...basically:

 

Serfs make their own wool blankets

Imperial government buys some wool

Sends wool blankets over

Furs that would've been used as garments for the natives are sent back to Russia

Furs cover cost of wool

Everyone wins! :D

 

Yesh, Vodka!

[archimage_a]

If we are looking at it from a historical perspective then the Serfs don't have enough wool to blanket everyone, as it was...So, Historically, the Government couldn't buy the surplus.

 

 

Also, going from a social perspective, a fur coat that had been stitched together from five or six different animals(presumably of the same speices) would be considerably less valuable...and therefore much less useful...for the aristocracy.

Since one assumes that all the Fur that was suitable for making high quality fur clothing out of was already sold to Europe....

 

So, if we assume these two perspectives are valid, then you would be buying something people don't have and selling something people don't want...

[Retech]

Assuming that, but I have already introduced crop rotation and other agricultural techniques, which would increase yields substantially. The extra crops could be used not only for eating but because of crop rotation, which necessitates growing some "non-human food" items, for animals. So available fodder might increase exponentially (For example, if we have 11 foodies and ten are eaten, we have 1 for fodder. Then we have 15 foodies, ten are eaten, we have 5 for fodder), meaning that wool production might also increase exponentially.

 

Progressives ftw!

 

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Furs are definitely more valuable than wool. It's what anyone who's anyone is wearing!

[archimage_a]

Of course that assumes Russia, which didn't adopt modern techniques in farming until the mid 20th century...many serfs still using wooden plows....has adopted these modern techniques within five or six years.

It then assumes that animals have mated presdigiously over those five or six years, and have balloned in size...Which, historically didn't happen after the NEP ended in Russia when it did modernise farming.

It further assumes that, while learning, planting and working the land in all these new ways, that the Serfs ignored the possibility of it just being a 'Good Year' or two...it also ignores the possibility of it being a bad year and thus they decided the method was rubbish....and thus allowed the animals to breed out of control.

 

It finally assumes that, while engaged in all this learning, planting and ignoring the mating animals, that the Serfs sheared tens, if not hundreds, of thousands more sheep than they had in previous years.

And the Spinners and the Weavers processed considerably more per year than they had prior, presumably(from the Historic perspective) without the advances such as the Spinning Jenny or the Spinning power houses such as Cromford....

 

There is also the question, presumably, of how easily it is to get hold of the steel scythes and plows historically required for the progressive techniques to become viable, something which, historically, Britian, the world leader in steel production for the age, did not achieve until 1855 with the discovery of the Bessemer Process.

 

 

 

Thus, one assumes that you may have over assumed the effectiveness of your reforms, leading, perhaps, to a situation in which you believe that you are in a position which you are, in fact, not in. Creating a certain innevitable suspicion that Dusty would not approve such a scheme, given that he as already demonstrated his unwilliness to allow countries to quickly shrug off their disadvantages, or make use of their leaders foresight of history.

[Retech]

Crop rotation and the three (four) field system didn't require steel.

 

 

 

We have already talked about this in detail. I had far more progressive ideas (basically taking control of the noble's lands and giving them pensions), but I opted for something smaller instead. Thanks, but I don't need two pop-ups with the same message. :)

[archimage_a]

Err....Crop Rotation is not modern...It has existed in Europe for the best part of two millenia... The three field system existing for almost 600 years, having been widely adopted between 600 and 400 years ago.

The four crop rotation is modern and could increase livestock production by a margin....However the increase of 6 years of year round livestock breeding, verses seasonal livestock breeding, probably doesn't account for the wool increase you refered to.

 

That and crop rotation didn't increase the number of spinners, shearers or weavers...

 

 

But I am not over fussed if you want to ignore history, it sets a good precedent.

[Retech]

It's modern for Russia's serfs. That's the great thing about being a backward country sometimes. Lots of room for improvement.

 

 

 

Also, Russia has huge amounts of labor, so it's mainly the amount of wool that is the problem, not the laborers.

[archimage_a]

Analogy, since the argument has deteriorated entirely into a sweeping generalisation and a total lack of any knowladge about the production of wool (Which is not a world view, it is a cold hard fact, as with all the other arguments presented, they are historical fact...):

 

I have a Computer from the 70s...It is big and backwards.

I install XP on the system and therefore it is better than a modern computer, since it was backwards but I improved it.

 

Course in the real world the computer doesn't understand XP, doesn't have the memory to store XP and if it did it doesn't have the RAM to run XP, and supposing I could, the functionality would be heavily reduced.

But to someone who has no idea how a computer works, installing XP seems like a brilliant plan.

[Retech]

Let's change your analogy.

 

 

First of all, instead of having one crappy computer, I shall have two or three crappy computers. Then we account for the fact that unlike computers, humans can learn (excluding those crazy supercomputer. So then we install XP and despite several glaring glitches and problems with efficiency, it runs pretty well. So now I have three decent computers for your single good computer.

 

Certainly that isn't a good analogy for a computer, but I'm pointing out how using computers doesn't work, especially with the huge technological advancement in the past four decades. A sweeping generalisation is probaly more accurate than an analogy.

[archimage_a]

Sigh...

Clearly you have never installed Vista onto a computer from 2004. It crashed when I put the disk in, it crashed during the installation, it crashed during the next installation, it froze and then, on the 4th attempt, it installed and proceeded to spend three days updating and checking and updating.

The start up sequence takes the best part of 10 minutes, logging in takes 5 minutes....It was considerably faster working with it when XP was on it....

 

You are going 'Vista is better, therefore it will be faster.' or 'Progress Policies are better, therefore it will be better.'

In actuality it isn't, and Russia isn't better off with progressive policies because there are no foundations to it...

The Peasents were brought up to believe that you worked hard and suffered in life so that you could die and go to heaven.

The Nobles have a lot of power and change threatens that.

 

It is fairly pointless arguing with you though. You have your beliefs....I am defending ideas that I disagree with because it is a chance to prevent ignorance.

[Retech]

Sigh...

Clearly you have never installed Vista onto a computer from 2004. It crashed when I put the disk in, it crashed during the installation, it crashed during the next installation, it froze and then, on the 4th attempt, it installed and proceeded to spend three days updating and checking and updating.

The start up sequence takes the best part of 10 minutes, logging in takes 5 minutes....It was considerably faster working with it when XP was on it....

 

You are going 'Vista is better, therefore it will be faster.' or 'Progress Policies are better, therefore it will be better.'

In actuality it isn't, and Russia isn't better off with progressive policies because there are no foundations to it...

The Peasents were brought up to believe that you worked hard and suffered in life so that you could die and go to heaven.

The Nobles have a lot of power and change threatens that.

 

It is fairly pointless arguing with you though. You have your beliefs....I am defending ideas that I disagree with because it is a chance to prevent ignorance.

 

Which is why I said that computers were a terrible analogy.

 

If ignorange is anything that you do not believe to be fact, then I'm glad you understand. :thumbup:

[Icuownage]

Can I raise any quick militia? To protect against the Natives?

[Nero]

Prussian invasion of Mecklenburg

 

Summer, 1780

 

Prussia invaded the independent German state of Mecklenburg on February 8th, 1780. Mecklenburg quickly mobilized its army and raised 3,000 new militia troops, and so did its ally Bremen, combining the two into a force of over 15,000 strong with 10 cannon. By comparison, the Prussians were invading with an army of 15,000 and a single cannon. Numerically the Mecklenburg-Bremen army seemed to be superior, but its troops quality was lower, and they were facing off against the iron discipline of Frederick the Great’s successor army.

 

The two met just on the border between Mecklenburg and Pomerania, a narrow field flanked by two large forests. The Prussians advanced in two parts, the first part commanded by General Von Santa Klaus (Offensive Doctrine) and the second commanded by General Mannerheim (Disciplinarian). The Mecklenburg infantry waited, blocking the narrow field, while the Mecklenburg cavalry had complete control over the woods, and waited to the Prussians to advance.

 

The cannonade started as the Prussians moved forward, spurred on by their General’s words, and the single Prussian cannon spat back its feeble response before being targeted by the Mecklenburg cannons and had its limber shot apart. The Prussian cavalry, only 1500 strong, guarded the flanks of the advancing Prussian columns. The Mecklenburg line marched forward, eager to get the fight over with and send the Prussians running home.

 

The two lines marched steadily towards eachother, their battalion flags fluttering in the minds and the drums beating the beat of the damned. As they got closer, the Mecklenburg cannons started firing canister, but were forced to stop as the gunner crews feared they might hit their own troops in the rear. The two lines halted as both of them raised muskets to shoulders and started their volley fire. The Prussians got the better side of the engagement, as they were able to wrap around the flanks of the Mecklenburg line and punish the militia units holding the flanks severely.

General Klaus finally ordered his cavalry forward, recognizing that if he could break the militia troops on the flanks then the Mecklenburg line might just crumple entirely as had happened with the Croatian army just a few months previously.

 

The cavalry stormed forward, lancers and sabres held forward, and the Mecklenburg General responded by sending his full cavalry out from the woods. This was the flash point, as the Prussian cavalry was caught off guard by the speedy attack of the Mecklenburg cavalry, and barely managed to withdraw in time. The Mecklenburg cavalry, now wild with bloodlust, turned towards the Prussian infantry and charged forward. The Prussians were still in line, and they believed they could simply ride over them, but the Prussian officers saw the cavalry charging forward, and despite the fact that they were taking heavy fire from the Mecklenburg infantry line, the regiments wheeled expertly into square, just barely making it in time [Discipline bonus. If you had lost this roll you would’ve lost the battle].

 

The Mecklenburg cavalry was almost entirely slaughtered within a quarter hour. Unable to attack the stoic Prussian squares, they rode around them while the Prussians poured musket fire into them and they fled. The Mecklenburg militia units, seeing the cavalry fleeing from the Prussian infantry broke as well, and fled. However, the Mecklenburg regulars and artillery kept their composure and withdrew in good order. The Prussian infantry was too tired to pursue, and any time the Prussian cavalry came forward the Mecklenburg infantry formed square with the cannons protected inside and drove them off, killing a fair number of lancers.

 

Result:

Tactical Victory : Kingdom of Prussia

Strategic Victory: No one

 

Causalities:

Mecklenburg:

3000 militia units

2000 line infantry

2,000 hussars

 

Bremen:

3,000 hussars

 

Mecklenburg-Bremen army remaining: 2000 Line infantry, 2,000 fusiliers, 1,000 Grenadiers, 10 cannon

 

Prussia:

3,000 Line infantry

1,000 skirmishers

500 Lancers

1 cannon

(all will be replaced by next reset)

 

Prussian army remaining:

7,000 Line Infantry, 500 Lances, 1,000 Skirmishers and 1,500 Imperial Guard, 1,000 Curiassiers, 500 Lancers.

 

 

 

Mecklenburg is trying to raise more troops to challenge Prussia on the battlefield again.

However, it has offered Prussia a peace deal. They will pay Prussia 5,000,000 ducats if they leave Mecklenburg and sign a non-aggression pact for the next 5 years.

 

Can I raise any quick militia? To protect against the Natives?

You can raise 2,000 militia troops from your new colonies. You can push for 3,000, but they'll be crappier quality. Militia units are free to raise (but you can only raise them when they're protecting their homes...and they're essentially cannon fodder).

 

Forward me any plans you're making over PM if you'd like.

[archimage_a]

Prussians collect their fallen comrades and return home...A Triumphant Arch is commissioned, celebrating their continued supremacy in Central Europe.