Fun.

[Assume Nothing]

I would define fun as doing things that aren't as efficient or profitable as they used to be for the only fact that you still enjoy doing them. Half of the crap at barrows isn't worth 30% of what they used to be when I last was P2p, but last month when I started playing again you bet one of the things I liked to do most was those dungeons. Same goes for metal dragon killing, and all that other stuff.

 

 

For the record quitting and playing a year later was the best decision I think anyone can make in this game. Everything becomes so much fun again!

 

Why would you define fun as 'Doing things that aren't efficient or profitable'?

[Youmu]

Why would you define fun as 'Doing things that aren't efficient or profitable'?

I think he meant those activities used to be more efficient and profitable, but now they aren't. Yet he still enjoys doing those activities, which in his terms is defined as fun.

[Sir_Kurity]

I agree with the OP. Fun is extremely subjective. Fun to you may mean fletching Yew Longbow's for 12 hours whilst watching The Big Bang Theory

 

The big bang theory is the fun part, the yew longbows are just there. You don't see me going watching a movie commenting on how fun it was to sit in the seats and eat the popcorn, its the MOVIE thats fun, not random filler crap that you decide to do while watching the actual fun thing.

 

whilst fun for me may mean killing Tormented Demons with a Steel Titan, hoping for a Claw drop.

 

Thats because (from my limited TD knowledge), TD's actually require a degree of human interaction to kill, as opposed to watching the same 20 second loop go 300 times with a minimal of mouse movement.

 

Feeling a sense of achievement, big or small, can be perceived as 'fun' for most.

 

But you can feel a sense of achievement from anything in life, so its best not to complicate matters by including a sense of "achievement",

 

'Fun' could also mean having a good time with friends. Ah, Semantics.

 

Thats because having a good time with friends actually IS fun, fletching yew longbows for X hours is not.

 

One question; Is it fun to train cooking for hours, for a skillcape? If it is, what's fun about it? Are you sure it's the cooking/fletching that's fun, or is it the time spent doing something else?

 

Its not fun, period. If it is in anyway fun i could probably attribute that to external stimuli like talking to friends or watching a movie, in which its still not fun, its the external stimuli which is being fun.

[Assume Nothing]

I agree with the OP. Fun is extremely subjective. Fun to you may mean fletching Yew Longbow's for 12 hours whilst watching The Big Bang Theory

 

The big bang theory is the fun part, the yew longbows are just there. You don't see me going watching a movie commenting on how fun it was to sit in the seats and eat the popcorn, its the MOVIE thats fun, not random filler crap that you decide to do while watching the actual fun thing.

 

whilst fun for me may mean killing Tormented Demons with a Steel Titan, hoping for a Claw drop.

 

Thats because (from my limited TD knowledge), TD's actually require a degree of human interaction to kill, as opposed to watching the same 20 second loop go 300 times with a minimal of mouse movement.

 

Feeling a sense of achievement, big or small, can be perceived as 'fun' for most.

 

But you can feel a sense of achievement from anything in life, so its best not to complicate matters by including a sense of "achievement",

 

'Fun' could also mean having a good time with friends. Ah, Semantics.

 

Thats because having a good time with friends actually IS fun, fletching yew longbows for X hours is not.

 

One question; Is it fun to train cooking for hours, for a skillcape? If it is, what's fun about it? Are you sure it's the cooking/fletching that's fun, or is it the time spent doing something else?

 

Its not fun, period. If it is in anyway fun i could probably attribute that to external stimuli like talking to friends or watching a movie, in which its still not fun, its the external stimuli which is being fun.

Funny, I thought you were disagreeing with me. Seems like you agreed with most of my points.

[mcneilp]

I've just started playing again after a big break so the game still has an element of fun to it. I guess accomplishing goals, be it a 99 or certain level in a skill or earning X amount of GP, are what I'd class as fun. Castle wars as well.

[SirIzenhime]

[hide]

I agree with the OP. Fun is extremely subjective. Fun to you may mean fletching Yew Longbow's for 12 hours whilst watching The Big Bang Theory

 

The big bang theory is the fun part, the yew longbows are just there. You don't see me going watching a movie commenting on how fun it was to sit in the seats and eat the popcorn, its the MOVIE thats fun, not random filler crap that you decide to do while watching the actual fun thing.

 

whilst fun for me may mean killing Tormented Demons with a Steel Titan, hoping for a Claw drop.

 

Thats because (from my limited TD knowledge), TD's actually require a degree of human interaction to kill, as opposed to watching the same 20 second loop go 300 times with a minimal of mouse movement.

 

Feeling a sense of achievement, big or small, can be perceived as 'fun' for most.

 

But you can feel a sense of achievement from anything in life, so its best not to complicate matters by including a sense of "achievement",

 

'Fun' could also mean having a good time with friends. Ah, Semantics.

 

Thats because having a good time with friends actually IS fun, fletching yew longbows for X hours is not.

 

One question; Is it fun to train cooking for hours, for a skillcape? If it is, what's fun about it? Are you sure it's the cooking/fletching that's fun, or is it the time spent doing something else?

 

Its not fun, period. If it is in anyway fun i could probably attribute that to external stimuli like talking to friends or watching a movie, in which its still not fun, its the external stimuli which is being fun.

[/hide]

 

Did you seriously just tell someone that what they find fun isn't fun?

:thumbdown:

[Sir_Kurity]

Because humans just don't find watching a 5 second loop fun of some random graphically challenged person bending over a fire as "fun".

 

Fun is subjective, but its not THAT subjective.

[Bladewing]

if people can find serial murder fun, than they can find firemaking fun.

[Obtaurian]

Sir Kurity, you also have to consider that part of the "-insert AFK skill- experience" is the fact that you do other stuff at the same time. What's the difference between seeing a movie in a theater and seeing it at home? The experience of being in the theater with your popcorn, your soda, and the gigantic screen. If you focused all of your attention on your character cooking those rocktails, it wouldn't be much fun, but no one does that (or very few people do). Because no one does that, arguing that cooking isn't fun per se has no basis in reality, and thus it's not a valid scenario to base your argument on.

[Sir_Kurity]

Sir Kurity, you also have to consider that part of the "-insert AFK skill- experience" is the fact that you do other stuff at the same time.

 

Ive acknowleged that. But again, thats the external stimuli being fun, not the actual skill.

 

What's the difference between seeing a movie in a theater and seeing it at home? The experience of being in the theater with your popcorn, your soda, and the gigantic screen.

 

I don't think ive disputed that. The movie can be improved by external stimuli but the movies still the same movie.

 

If you focused all of your attention on your character cooking those rocktails, it wouldn't be much fun, but no one does that (or very few people do). Because no one does that, arguing that cooking isn't fun per se has no basis in reality, and thus it's not a valid scenario to base your argument on.

 

So your argument is that cooking is fun because you don't want, or need to concentrate on it. As i said, if you ever find cooking fun, you can generally attribute that to the external stimuli, and realize that the cooking is just a [cabbage]boring filler on a 20 second loop.

 

Why AFK train cooking while watching TV when i can just concentrate my attention on TV and not give 2 craps about the boringest skill in the game.

 

arguing that cooking isn't fun per se has no basis in reality,

 

It has every basis in reality. Cooking is boring, doing other stuff is fun, just because you combine the two doesn't mean that cooking is in any way improved. If anything, having to click the screen every 20 seconds or so is diminishing my actual fun.

 

if people can find serial murder fun, than they can find firemaking fun.

 

At the risk of sounding like a criminal. I can see how planning out peoples murders can be fun, stealth games attest to that. I can't see how clicking a log and a tinderbox 27 times, banking, and then looping it about 3000 times can in any way be fun in an extended time period.

[Obtaurian]

I'm not arguing that cooking is or isn't fun. I'm arguing that you can't dismiss integral aspects of AFK skills.

[Sir_Kurity]

I'm not arguing that cooking is or isn't fun. I'm arguing that you can't dismiss integral aspects of AFK skills.

 

I'm not, ive acknowledged that external stimuli can be fun, and i myself find skills preferable when i can spend most of my time reading these forums. Doesn't stop cooking from being hilariously boring.

[Obtaurian]

I'm not arguing that cooking is or isn't fun. I'm arguing that you can't dismiss integral aspects of AFK skills.

 

I'm not, ive acknowledged that external stimuli can be fun, and i myself find skills preferable when i can spend most of my time reading these forums. Doesn't stop cooking from being hilariously boring.

 

Can you have a good time talking to friends or watching a show while you train cooking in Runescape? Training cooking while you do something else is commonplace. The overall experience of training cooking is what must be taken into consideration when deciding whether or not it's fun.

 

That said, I would love some sort of cooking minigame where you have to actively cook various foods in a restaurant or something (gnome delivery doesn't really count because it's awful experience and you can pre-prepare the food). I'm all for making skills fun in of themselves. I wish beacon lighting was good experience, because I would definitely prefer to do that (though I do enjoy playing BA when firemaking normally).

[Sir_Kurity]

I'm not arguing that cooking is or isn't fun. I'm arguing that you can't dismiss integral aspects of AFK skills.

 

I'm not, ive acknowledged that external stimuli can be fun, and i myself find skills preferable when i can spend most of my time reading these forums. Doesn't stop cooking from being hilariously boring.

 

Can you have a good time talking to friends or watching a show while you train cooking in Runescape? Training cooking while you do something else is commonplace. The overall experience of training cooking is what must be taken into consideration when deciding whether or not it's fun.

 

No it doesn't, because its the talking to friends that is fun.

 

Sure, afkable skills are better because at least you have the option to do something fun at the same time (unlike a certain agile skill), but the fact remains that the cooking won't improve your overall experience of talking to friends or watching a show, if anything its the other way around.

 

That said, I would love some sort of cooking minigame where you have to actively cook various foods in a restaurant or something (gnome delivery doesn't really count because it's awful experience and you can pre-prepare the food). I'm all for making skills fun in of themselves. I wish beacon lighting was good experience, because I would definitely prefer to do that (though I do enjoy playing BA when firemaking normally).

 

Exactly, skills should be fun in themselves, or at least have the option to be fun in themselves, and anyone saying they have fun because its afkable isnt having fun in the game, but having fun OUTSIDE runescape, which is kinda the opposite of what your trying to get out of a game.

[Obtaurian]

You're separating cooking and x activity again. You can't do that because it has no basis in reality. No one just cooks rocktails and stares at the screen for hours. I'll ask you again: is talking to your friends or watching a movie while cooking rocktails fun?

[Sir_Kurity]

You're separating cooking and x activity again. You can't do that because it has no basis in reality. No one just cooks rocktails and stares at the screen for hours.

 

I can do that, because we are talking about cooking being fun, not x activity.

 

If it wanted to talk about x activity being fun, i would do so. But seeing as we are talking about COOKING being fun, we talk about the cooking. We all know almost anything, including watching paint dry, can be fun if your doing something else at the same time, that doesn't make watching paint dry in any way fun.

 

I'll ask you again: is talking to your friends or watching a movie while cooking rocktails fun?

 

And ill ask you again, does the cooking rocktails actually improve your experience of talking to your friends or watching a movie?

[Obtaurian]

I'm not going to argue with you if you continue to gloss over significant flaws in your points.

[Sir_Kurity]

I'm not going to argue with you if you continue to gloss over significant flaws in your points.

 

Significant flaws? Just because i don't consider external activity to be in any way related to cooking is not a significant flaw.

 

The fact you have to distract yourself with external activity means that cooking isnt fun enough on its own.

[Kietaro1]

You're separating cooking and x activity again. You can't do that because it has no basis in reality. No one just cooks rocktails and stares at the screen for hours. I'll ask you again: is talking to your friends or watching a movie while cooking rocktails fun?

But see, it reality he can. Just so much as you can connect them, he can look at them separately.

 

In truth Sir has been able to really see what I meant when I made this thread. Sure I have given up over the course of the few days after I originally posted the thread, but my intent was to show that there are very few things in Runescape that are genuinely fun in and of themselves. I created this thread as a companion thread to the efficiency thread to show how shallow that argument is. I would be willing to bet that 15 year old arguments aside, most players do not find much in Runescape enjoyable. The outside stimuli as Sir puts it is the important factor. If players were not able to watch videos, chat, or otherwise had to be completely focused on afk skills, I am sure that there would be far less players with those stats as high.

 

Whether you choose to look at it that way or not, the point Sir and I are trying to make is that most of the gameplay in Runescape is not fun. Everything else that goes with it is fun but the game itself is very rarely fun. I am sorry but click, wait, loot, repeat is not a fun combat system (as seen in slayer, often touted as the best skill). Now PvP on the other had, while still being click and wait in essence is far more involved and thus can be fun. That is the difference that I am trying to show. Skills such as herblaw, fletching, or cooking are not fun. Things that actually involve the player are and can be fun. Something that you do not have to pay attention to is not fun. That would be akin to saying that you left a metal fender outside in your back yard. While you wait for it to rust, you enjoy a basketball season, max out some prestiges in Battlefield, and have your first kiss. Then when you go to retrieve the fender, you say that you had a blast letting the fender rust. I am sure that you realize that this is a ridiculous example but I hope that you can understand it's context instead of focusing on the example. Anyway ,regardless of what you are doing alongside the skill, the skills themselves are not fun. That is the point.

 

So when someone asks what is the best way to get hunter to level 70, I would first recommend that they don't but then give them the fastest way to get it. Wasting anymore time would be tedious and not enjoyable.

[Obtaurian]

I'm not going to argue with you if you continue to gloss over significant flaws in your points.

 

Significant flaws? Just because i don't consider external activity to be in any way related to cooking is not a significant flaw.

 

The fact you have to distract yourself with external activity means that cooking isnt fun enough on its own.

 

You seem to be adamant that people stare at their screens while they train AFK skills. Is it because you, yourself, do that? I'm afraid that you're in the minority.

[Sir_Kurity]

I'm not going to argue with you if you continue to gloss over significant flaws in your points.

 

Significant flaws? Just because i don't consider external activity to be in any way related to cooking is not a significant flaw.

 

The fact you have to distract yourself with external activity means that cooking isnt fun enough on its own.

You seem to be adamant that people stare at their screens while they train AFK skills. Is it because you, yourself, do that? I'm afraid that you're in the minority.

 

Never said they do, infact i acknowleged that people don't, i'm afraid you need to learn to read.

 

I'm saying the skill isnt fun, its the external stimuli which is.

[Obtaurian]

Never said they do, i'm afraid you need to learn to read.

 

Yet you continue to present your argument as such.

[Bladewing]

lots of stuff in runescape is not fun. for me, that constitutes every skill but attack, strength, defence, hitpoints, ranged, slayer, magic, (sometimes) dungeoneering, and DIY herblore.

 

i maintain that killing monsters is fun. i know some disagree with me, but to me it is fun slaughtering thousands of dagannoths per hour with a cannon, steel titan, rapier, turmoil, overloads. however, killing 200 yaks an hour is not fun to me (as well as many others).

[Sir_Kurity]

Never said they do, i'm afraid you need to learn to read.

 

Yet you continue to present your argument as such.

 

"thats the external stimuli being fun, not the actual skill."

 

Again, learn to read, my argument is that the skill isnt fun, any external stimuli is as the name implys, external.

[Kietaro1]

Never said they do, i'm afraid you need to learn to read.

 

Yet you continue to present your argument as such.

Instead of remaining in your own shoes, why not try to at least try to walk around in ours so that you might see what we are trying to say. As your argument has reached personal attacks, you are losing creditability. We understand that afk skills are made enjoyable by what you can do alongside them but THE SKILLS THEMSELVES ARE NOT FUN!