Space

[Nexaduro]

Soup.

 

And Mather, stop being difficult. Hard science is not allowed, I suggest you stop clamouring for a concrete measurement before he decides to agree and use tuna as the unit.

 

Besides, it's a normal concept... Burning a fuel, in this case kT, to create energy... While humans have gotten better at that, we still can't reverse the process, same as in real life.

[Leiana]

I'm not going to kill an innocent creature (no matter how bad it smells). I'll have to send it back then.

[The_Mather1]

Nex, using kT is actually harder science than using Coulomb, kT means kilotone, which means gigagrams which would be a unit of meassurement for mass, though mass is not constant with anything you can count, however Coulomb is the amount of electrons divided by somewhere around a billion (there is an actual accurate number, you can find it on wikipedia).

[Nexaduro]

Oh, so you admit that I'm right and you're wrong and that Archi shouldn't have to measure electrons with fish. I'm so glad we agree.

[Leiana]

What's this argument about again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

(*In a sing song voice* "Faust is Jelous, Faust is Jelous") Buhahahaha

[The_Mather1]

Lee, it is just Nex trying to be annoying, it was actually about how Archi is kind of obligated to allow something because of how much he is generalizing the unit system.

[Nexaduro]

No, but really Mather, why is it at all necessary? The only difference it would make is that the rest of us would be more confused than usual.

 

Lei, *ahem.* Did you think I fired a VOL Device past your head yesterday by accident?

 

EDIT: There's also an 'a' in 'jealous.'

[Leiana]

Ah, ok. Chi, do you have any recomendations for what to do with my turtle that doesn't end up turning it into soup?

 

Faust, you really are jelous. Next session I'll try to be less annoying.........but a)How the hell was I supposed to learn how to fire a damn plasma bolt with my TBS (thought bowstaff), b) I'm the weakest person you know pretty much and c) you just doomed yourself, I will attempt to hug you next session

[Nexaduro]

Create a world on its back?

[Leiana]

Faust, you're only making it worse for yourself. I really don't want to go back to annoying you. You're still doomed to a hug btw

[Alg]

Create a world on its back?

:thumbup:

[Leiana]

Mask, do I have to doom you too? I'll shoot you with my new TBS or chuck the turtle at you.

[Seraphi]

But that would hurt the turtle.

 

You evil monster.

[Leiana]

Pfffffftttttt...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I was joking about the turtle chucking. I'll just shoot Mask in the pinkey toe with my TBS or give him a hug.

[Alg]

I'm a sucker for island/world turtles :ugeek:

[Earth]

I swear, Earth would freak out if he got hugged.

[Nexaduro]

If you hug me, you might get punched through a wall.

 

You know... self defence reflexes and such... And the fact that I have lightning generators in my palms might make things worse... And there's the armour lockup... And my Blitz could misfire...

[Jehosaphat]

Oh, so you admit that I'm right and you're wrong and that Archi shouldn't have to measure electrons with fish. I'm so glad we agree.

Measure electrons. With fish.

 

What.

[Jehosaphat]

I'm not even under threat of getting hugged. I am under threat of figuring out what to spend this on, though.... I think it's time I dream up a new suit.

[The_Mather1]

If Chi got hugged he'd hug back.

[Retech]

If Chi got hugged he'd hug back.

 

*Buzz*

 

I'm sorry Chi, that is incorrect. The answer is: flee in the opposite direction.

[The_Mather1]

You just reminded me of something, Retech. I gotta grind down any sharp edges on the scrap bot that it may accidentaly stab or cut me with, then I've got to give it a happiness protocol with a hug function. Prepare to be bodyslammed by a biped slab of metal the size of a vacuum cleaner.

[archimage_a]

DUH. It's called magic, Ross.

 

He either has to allow that or find some other way to meassure electric charge.

Your statement is flawed:

Two reasons.

 

First is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

Which shows that you don't actually have to base a currency, EC, on anything for it to be interchangable.

 

Secondly:

The notion of that 1 kT of resources converts to 1,000 EC, exactly, ignores the laws of Entropy...and indeed the laws of Economics.

1 kT is a measure of resources which is required to do one kT of work...Similar to a Newton, except broader, taking into account all the conversions of the various resources, sifting through them, seperating them, generally fiddling with them...Hence why Echo was able to find a 1kT lump of Gallicite without wrenching his arm off trying to lift it up.

 

Furthermore I have never said that you could not use Solar Energy, or any other type of energy, to produce kT...I simply said the exchange rate sucked...

 

I also never said kT or EC were used to measure electrical charge, I simply said that if you launch into a massive debate during a session I will not accept hard science...and I will not provide you with the physical breakdown of everything in the game, since I am not a world renowned expert and I will get things wrong. Also, I do not appreciate being lead into traps solely so you can point out that I am not being scientifical...

 

Nex, using kT is actually harder science than using Coulomb, kT means kilotone, which means gigagrams which would be a unit of meassurement for mass, though mass is not constant with anything you can count, however Coulomb is the amount of electrons divided by somewhere around a billion (there is an actual accurate number, you can find it on wikipedia).

Actually no.

Kilotonne, spelt correctly, is a kt, not kT...

 

On a purely semanic point:

It has never actually been said by the A/SI that kT is a Kilotonne.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12603519/Space/Logs/%23space9.Tip.It.log

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12603519/Space/Logs/%23space17.Tip.It.log

Only times A/SI says kilotonne.

 

Both are where the AI is measuring weight, so fits with the whole kT isn't kt.

Which is fairly suprising since I am only making the distinction now.

Continuality FTW!

 

 

The middle ground would be to use Newton Moles, with a variance every ((1836.15*Molar Mass)/number of moles.), to make up for the mass of the electrons. However, every day tasks, like weighing a pencil, would require a mass spectrometer, and would destroy the pencil...making the variance fairly unimportant...so we can probably skip that bit.

In any event it would require the molecular mass of every object to be worked out, the problems I see with this are thus:

I don't have level 10 engineering, or level 10 technical drawing.

I don't have diazonium salt or a azodye, so I couldn't make the blueprints.

I don't have a garage, basement or workshop.

I don't have a NASA surplus outlet nearby.

I don't have a mass spectrometer.

Nor the skills to use one.

I don't have billions of pounds to buy materials.

If I did I wouldn't.

I don't have more than about 3 minutes before people start getting hissy.

 

So me building and giving accurate calculations of the Newton Mole cost of fabricating a pencil would crash the game.

 

 

Now, since I can't offer you a compromise I am afraid I will have to accept your logic of using Coulombs...But, wait...Don't I need to know the molecular mass of the items to use Coulombs too? Since I need to know the number of electrons, protons, neutrons and any stray other particles present...

Not use the exact molecular makeup and make an educated guess?

I guess it wouldn't matter that much, since there is a 1,600,000,000 electron margin of error in every coulomb.

That said, I don't know the molecular make up of wood, I'll ask:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03702.htm

So it is mainly cellulose, lets start with that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose

Thats handy, (C6H10O5)n. Now, lets define N.

Oh rats, we need the weight of the pencil, minus the graphite core. Can we estimate?

No, that would defeat the purpose of using such an exact form of measurement.

http://www.ask.com/web?qsrc=2417&o=10148&l=dis&q=how+much+does+a+pencil+weigh+without+the+lead

Rats, we can't seem to find the weight of the pencil. Is there some other way of finding N?

Yes! If I use my mass spectrometer!

Oh wait, I don't have a mass spectrometer.

Is there another way?

I could go to the shops, buy a pencil, carefully remove the graphite core, weight the pencil on some scientific scales, and then divide the weight of the wood by the molecular mass, thus giving N.

Oh rats, I don't have a shop that is 3 minutes away from my house, in fact, I am not sure I have the time machine required to complete the operation in less than three minutes.

Is there another option open to me? Is there some way of measuring the mass of the pencil, without a mass spectrometer, without buying a pencil, without knowing the mass of a pencil, without a time machine, in less than three minutes?

Rats, I can't think of any.

 

Well, I guess that Coloumbs out, and the compromise out, only the kT system remains on the table, I guess I will have to use that.

 

 

 

:roll:

Seriously, you are advocating using a system which is technically complicated, practically unlikely and metaphysically questionable...how, for example, do you define the mass of a soul while being transported?

 

As such I am inclined to say that the kT system has worked fine for 40 sessions, as has the EC system. The Coulomb system, aside from me needing to check the spelling every time I use it, failed the preliminary run of fabricating a pencil, let alone speculating into how you are going to store -illions of Coulumbs in a lapel pin ready to be deployed as a shield...or to fabricate neurotoxins.

[Seraphi]

So we are agreed, science is for twits, pseudophysics is cool.

[The_Mather1]

Now there's something which is out of context, since using culomb was for devices where in reality the electricity is the only required fuel, such as the case would be with stargates, were they real. And as the electrons used to determine the charge in Culombs are not the ones stuck in the stable metals, but rather the ones that have been forced into a capacitor or battery and as such are the surplus electrons, the electrons that want to move, it is just the simple manner of finding the Culombs in the battery or capacitor. Let's use the capacitor bank I used in my coilgun for simplicity. Did it say how much charge it could take? No. Did it say the farads? Yes, 10,000uF and four capacitors in parallel, that's 40,000uF or 40uF. Then, did it read the max voltage? Yes, 100 volts. Then it's just the simple matter of multiplying the Voltage and Farads (power and capacitance) and you get 4 Culomb. Was that so hard? No.

And to get the Culombs required? Or to find the Culombs required you can use the Voltage which is already known and/or the time and Amperage.

 

To say it in a much easier way:

c(F)*U(V)=Q(C¹)

I(A)*t(S)=Q(C¹)

 

Capacitance times power equals charge.

Current times time equals charge.

 

¹Damn copyright symbol.