once again, manipulation does not cause inflation. do you know what inflation is?

 

and the reason players act this way is because of the faulty system (GE) that allows this kind of activity to actually work.

 

Manipulation doesn't cause inflation, but it amplifies it, and the item rises in price much more quickly.

that is NOT inflation

once again, manipulation does not cause inflation. do you know what inflation is?

 

and the reason players act this way is because of the faulty system (GE) that allows this kind of activity to actually work.

 

Manipulation doesn't cause inflation, but it amplifies it, and the item rises in price much more quickly.

that is NOT inflation

 

Exactly.

 

Inflation is what happened to whips (and many other items) when they rose from a stable 1m to the now stable 3m~, because of the influx of cash.

once again, manipulation does not cause inflation. do you know what inflation is?

 

and the reason players act this way is because of the faulty system (GE) that allows this kind of activity to actually work.

 

Manipulation doesn't cause inflation, but it amplifies it, and the item rises in price much more quickly.

that is NOT inflation

 

Exactly.

 

Inflation is what happened to whips (and many other items) when they rose from a stable 1m to the now stable 3m~, because of the influx of cash.

They're right, inflation roughly means the devaluing of money (Or general increase in the price of most goods) over time; you're just talking about general price increases of specific items which can be from inflation, increase in demand, decrease in supply, etc.

Price manipulation was already possible before the GE. The GE just encourages it a lot more; and for a majority I would say it gives them more 'security' when price manipulating. If the GE were to be taken out, price manipulation would still be around. PM is going to be around forever and it was going to happen eventually with or without the GE,

 

I think everyone is just 'wasting' time with the new skill and when the majority stop toying around with it, we'll see inflation come flying back. It's going to take a lot more than chaotic weapons or degrading items to limit or null inflation. Jagex would have to make every single item in the game degrade or be bind only to stop inflation. They would also have to change how raw materials are used in skills to make end products.

 

Runescape has fallen off of the path of a balanced and proper game. These 'quick fixes' Jagex implement into the game are not solving core issues. Radical change is the only solution by this point. The Grand Exchange & RWT updates were not implemented correctly with Runescape. The game itself, in my opinion, is rejecting the GE and the trade limits. Either the game changes and/or the game itself needs to change. Jagex is also creating other issues with causing a clustermess of issues with combat & skilling.

 

RS3 is their best solution and arguably the only solution to actually cause enough changes to fix the game. At the rate Jagex is going, we're going to have a ridiculous amount of issues we would have never dreamed of by the time we get into 2012 or 2013. These slow, not-quite-drastic enough updates are not helping.

 

Just my opinion. I honestly do not think it matters what Jagex updates or does in the game at this point, it is way too far gone to be fixed.

 

I agree with radical changes to the GE but I think you're overexaggerating the problem a bit. Price manipulation was many, many, many times less common before the GE because trades were made in w2 fally, RSOF, clan forums, resource harvesting spots, etc while prices were heavily influenced by forum "price check" threads; even if buyers were constantly buying at all the popular spots, you could always find someone ignorant about a new price trend and it wouldn't matter to them to buy/sell for a "normal" price. Prices only changed due to natural trends or game updates. Now only a few items are traded at w2 GE/RSOF and the vast majority of normal items are swapped on the GE where you have a limited flow. I don't see how manipulation would still be prevalent if the GE was revamped to be more flexible in changing prices (or removed entirely).

Price manipulation was already possible before the GE. The GE just encourages it a lot more; and for a majority I would say it gives them more 'security' when price manipulating. If the GE were to be taken out, price manipulation would still be around. PM is going to be around forever and it was going to happen eventually with or without the GE,

 

I think everyone is just 'wasting' time with the new skill and when the majority stop toying around with it, we'll see inflation come flying back. It's going to take a lot more than chaotic weapons or degrading items to limit or null inflation. Jagex would have to make every single item in the game degrade or be bind only to stop inflation. They would also have to change how raw materials are used in skills to make end products.

 

Runescape has fallen off of the path of a balanced and proper game. These 'quick fixes' Jagex implement into the game are not solving core issues. Radical change is the only solution by this point. The Grand Exchange & RWT updates were not implemented correctly with Runescape. The game itself, in my opinion, is rejecting the GE and the trade limits. Either the game changes and/or the game itself needs to change. Jagex is also creating other issues with causing a clustermess of issues with combat & skilling.

 

RS3 is their best solution and arguably the only solution to actually cause enough changes to fix the game. At the rate Jagex is going, we're going to have a ridiculous amount of issues we would have never dreamed of by the time we get into 2012 or 2013. These slow, not-quite-drastic enough updates are not helping.

 

Just my opinion. I honestly do not think it matters what Jagex updates or does in the game at this point, it is way too far gone to be fixed.

 

I agree with radical changes to the GE but I think you're overexaggerating the problem a bit. Price manipulation was many, many, many times less common before the GE because trades were made in w2 fally, RSOF, clan forums, resource harvesting spots, etc while prices were heavily influenced by forum "price check" threads; even if buyers were constantly buying at all the popular spots, you could always find someone ignorant about a new price trend and it wouldn't matter to them to buy/sell for a "normal" price. Prices only changed due to natural trends or game updates. Now only a few items are traded at w2 GE/RSOF and the vast majority of normal items are swapped on the GE where you have a limited flow. I don't see how manipulation would still be prevalent if the GE was revamped to be more flexible in changing prices (or removed entirely).

 

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

anyone else feel like they're getting trolled?

 

hope you are happy OP, it's working

anyone else feel like they're getting trolled?

 

hope you are happy OP, it's working

 

I've seen you post on countless threads around this forum. You're always hot-headed at best, a hypocritical flamer usually. I'd appreciate you stop trolling, do something else in your vast expanse of free time.

Thanks, I'd really appreciate it. :)

I think Emerson pretty much hit the crux of the issue: people spending their days inside Daemonheim, means people are spending less time actually making money. Also, since no one else seems to have pointed it out, merching isn't making money, it's merely redistributing the wealth that's already in the system. Killing monsters / alching / pvp drops worth stupidly huge piles of money, is generally what brings money into the game. Finally, when the GE came out, people that used to stand around all day trading, got given the chance to use their time more efficiently: a few minutes at the GE, then run off and do whatever they fancy.

 

I certainly do hope the current trend continues, a market with constant inflation is boring, and no one likes the idea of their pile of money being worth progressively less.

I think Emerson pretty much hit the crux of the issue: people spending their days inside Daemonheim, means people are spending less time actually making money. Also, since no one else seems to have pointed it out, merching isn't making money, it's merely redistributing the wealth that's already in the system. Killing monsters / alching / pvp drops worth stupidly huge piles of money, is generally what brings money into the game. Finally, when the GE came out, people that used to stand around all day trading, got given the chance to use their time more efficiently: a few minutes at the GE, then run off and do whatever they fancy.

 

I certainly do hope the current trend continues, a market with constant inflation is boring, and no one likes the idea of their pile of money being worth progressively less.

That's exactly what I think. It's worrying how I know in a year my 250m will be worth only half the Sara Brews (or whatever other item in demand) I could have bought.

Also I didn't think of it that way; how people now spend much less time buying and selling. Thanks for the insight!

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

 

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price?

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

 

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price?

 

1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation.

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

 

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price?

 

1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation.

The ge updates automatically based on how many of the item are bought at over/under regular price and by how much. There's not enough price varience to derive supply and demand, especially for the thousands of items that'd have to be changed daily.

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

 

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price?

 

1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation.

The ge updates automatically based on how many of the item are bought at over/under regular price and by how much. There's not enough price varience to derive supply and demand, especially for the thousands of items that'd have to be changed daily.

 

If it's automated, then:

1) I've been lied to - Jagex said they hired more staff for this... guess not?

2) That makes manipulation that much easier

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

 

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price?

 

1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation.

 

The GE updates on very specific formulas, all Jagex does is choose a time to do it (and mixes it up to avoid updates being predictable). Loosening the time between updates (or having it update instantaneously) would vastly DECREASE the potential for manipulation and cash transfer because abnormal prices are quickly leveled.

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

 

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price?

 

1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation.

The ge updates automatically based on how many of the item are bought at over/under regular price and by how much. There's not enough price varience to derive supply and demand, especially for the thousands of items that'd have to be changed daily.

If it's automated, then:

1) I've been lied to - Jagex said they hired more staff for this... guess not?

2) That makes manipulation that much easier

1. I doubt you were lied to, you probably just misunderstood. They might have hired more staff to help develop the system and formulas, but I can guarantee you that it would be a terrible business decision to hire people to derive something that can be discovered automatically.

2.Yes it does, but it also makes merching in general easier too which can both help and hurt the rs population.

If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

 

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price?

 

1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation.

The ge updates automatically based on how many of the item are bought at over/under regular price and by how much. There's not enough price varience to derive supply and demand, especially for the thousands of items that'd have to be changed daily.

If it's automated, then:

1) I've been lied to - Jagex said they hired more staff for this... guess not?

2) That makes manipulation that much easier

1. I doubt you were lied to, you probably just misunderstood. They might have hired more staff to help develop the system and formulas, but I can guarantee you that it would be a terrible business decision to hire people to derive something that can be discovered automatically.

2.Yes it does, but it also makes merching in general easier too which can both help and hurt the rs population.

 

I clearly remember something along the paraphrased lines of "Don't worry, we have a seperate team to handle the GE, so updates will still come out regularly"... How can that be misinterpreted?

I clearly remember something along the paraphrased lines of "Don't worry, we have a seperate team to handle the GE, so updates will still come out regularly"... How can that be misinterpreted?

source?

I clearly remember something along the paraphrased lines of "Don't worry, we have a seperate team to handle the GE, so updates will still come out regularly"... How can that be misinterpreted?

source?

 

I don't have one from years ago, sorry.. but I do remember something like that. Maybe I really did misinterpret. Who knows..

I clearly remember something along the paraphrased lines of "Don't worry, we have a seperate team to handle the GE, so updates will still come out regularly"... How can that be misinterpreted?

 

I guarantee you that Jagex does not pick new prices manually.

 

Jmods are needed to handle the GE because:

 

1. They still have to pick the timing of updates roughly every day and now and then intervene (amulets of accuracy)

2. They had to determine the pricing of every item from scratch when the GE was released, which took a huge team, and had to keep adjusting prices after that based on feedback (and even today a jmod or two might be assigned to read through forum GE price suggestions for a few minutes each week)

hopefully tier 80 armor is tradable and pricy, i need some juicy inlfating item to merch

More items with high value = overal deflation.

The money has got to come from somewhere, right?

 

Also, Emerson says that DG puts people away from doing money generating activities, but I can say just about the same of item generating activities (monsterhunting). (ie: more people dg, less people do GWD => prices go up)

hopefully tier 80 armor is tradable and pricy, i need some juicy inlfating item to merch

More items with high value = overal deflation.

The money has got to come from somewhere, right?

 

Also, Emerson says that DG puts people away from doing money generating activities, but I can say just about the same of item generating activities (monsterhunting). (ie: more people dg, less people do GWD => prices go up)

You're confusing inflation with a few items increasing in value. If items come out that are high value that does not necessarily mean deflation will occur unless money is taken out of the game via NPC trading, if it's just player-player trading then no deflation will occur. Also the increase of GWD armor price would have to do with the supply curve shifting to the left, nothing to do with inflation.

 

ECONOMICS :-o

hopefully tier 80 armor is tradable and pricy, i need some juicy inlfating item to merch

More items with high value = overal deflation.

The money has got to come from somewhere, right?

 

Also, Emerson says that DG puts people away from doing money generating activities, but I can say just about the same of item generating activities (monsterhunting). (ie: more people dg, less people do GWD => prices go up)

You're confusing inflation with a few items increasing in value. If items come out that are high value that does not necessarily mean deflation will occur unless money is taken out of the game via NPC trading, if it's just player-player trading then no deflation will occur. Also the increase of GWD armor price would have to do with the supply curve shifting to the left, nothing to do with inflation.

 

ECONOMICS :-o

Uhm, if there is a set amount of money, an increase in items (addition of high end high value items) would mean each item must cost less. (on average)

 

I know, the most important thing to look at is the GP in/GP out balance, but I do think items from monster hunting can have an effect.

hopefully tier 80 armor is tradable and pricy, i need some juicy inlfating item to merch

More items with high value = overal deflation.

The money has got to come from somewhere, right?

 

Also, Emerson says that DG puts people away from doing money generating activities, but I can say just about the same of item generating activities (monsterhunting). (ie: more people dg, less people do GWD => prices go up)

You're confusing inflation with a few items increasing in value. If items come out that are high value that does not necessarily mean deflation will occur unless money is taken out of the game via NPC trading, if it's just player-player trading then no deflation will occur. Also the increase of GWD armor price would have to do with the supply curve shifting to the left, nothing to do with inflation.

 

ECONOMICS :-o

Uhm, if there is a set amount of money, an increase in items (addition of high end high value items) would mean each item must cost less. (on average)

 

I know, the most important thing to look at is the GP in/GP out balance, but I do think items from monster hunting can have an effect.

That's not inflation. Inflation is the devaluing of money, not just the increase of prices. That's why in the real world when the Government prints out excess money, the value of money falls compared to other currencies. This is also true in rs, when Player GENERATE more money than is being used, it devalues it, and more money is needed to buy the same items, while people still only make the same amount. Inflation is normal, but OVERinflation is unsafe and creates doubt in the populus.

there is no practical difference between "an overall rise in price level" and "a decrease in the value (purchasing power) of money".

there is no practical difference between "an overall rise in price level" and "a decrease in the value (purchasing power) of money".

That's nonsense, of course there's a difference. As aforementioned, I'll take an example of a painting. Lets say it was worth $3000 in 1800. But now, it's worth $3,000,000. Does that accurately measure inflation? Did prices of all commodities 300,000%? No. Of course you could argue that that's only a specific example but the logic still stands.

 

There's a difference between price rise and money devaluation.