poh house location choices

[drixoman]

I posted about this before elsewhere on here but I figure since this sub-forum is for "serious" discussion about efficiency and tactics I might as well re-introduce it here as I still don't have a definite solution to this problem.

 

I'm trying to find out where should your house be located, with what portals in the chamber, where to place the 2 farmable spirit tree, and using any "free" transportation method (that is, no items/gp) in between travel (eg glider, canoe, fairy, etc...), so that you can choose to reach the maximum amount of destinations possible, starting with only a house teletab

 

in other word, starting from your house (wherever it is) how many places can you reach without any item / gp / making trip to bank.

 

I want to reiterate that no banking is involved during the whole travel duration. So this will eliminate having to switch for item with teleport capability. (after all, most of them don't disappear after you reach your location so perhaps you need to bank again to remove them) (this will make the study more controllable)

 

Now for some basic math data background:

--we have 6C1 (combinatoric: out of 6, choose 1; how many unique selection can exist) for house location; that mean there's 6 different way to locate your house.

--in any house we can built a maximum of 6 portal from 2 chamber, out of 7 possible selection. So that's 7C6 = 7

--assuming you finished the newest gnome quest Prisoner of Glouphrie, you have 2 spirit tree plantable out 3 location: 3C2 = 3

All together we have 6*7*3=126 different combination of configuration based the above 3 factor. The question is which one (maybe multiple in case they're tied) of these can lead to the most location reachable. These location are without importance attribute so Varrock/GE is not more important than say, the Legend Guild and would not be given "preferential" treatment in the calculation process (although Varrock/GE is quite "important" when it comes to transfer in between systems as it has 4 different system sphere intersecting. I don't think any other location is this useful in terms of transportation.)

 

And then there are a mounted glory in your quest hall which lead you to 4 constant destination, but since they can't change, they don't play a role beside as another transportation system, albeit having it's entry point in wherever your house is located at.

 

Also, one way destination count as a final destination, but they're obviously dead end, if there is no alternative entry point to another system "nearby" (for those in spatial analysis: buffer problem sound familiar?). If it's not a dead end it will be considered in the rerouting/transfer in between system but the location itself is counted only once.

 

For those that know some academic topic that sound related to this, I don't believe this is a variation of the Travel salesman problem as that involved finding the most efficient LOOP. This is more like a tree, starting from one places which is the top-most node, and counting how many nodes exist at the bottom of the hierarchy; repeat starting with other location/combination as above and compare final result.

 

And remember. your house location is among the list of destinations. (we don't want clueless calculation that calculate the user having to travel around the world to reach Rellekka (if your house is there for instance) only to be wasted b/c you can just step out of your house and run for a bit.

 

In actuality, we're going to assume the the user will start from anywhere with only a house teletab and from there begin the study, having one location down already.

 

Because this is not heavily coordinate based, discretion is to be applied if one system entry point is to be belong in one "location", but that's for another reply later.

 

I might add more detail when I thought of it but for now I can't remember any more that should be known.

 

(I'm sure this problem to all of you compsci people will probably be no big feat (idk just build a big database with the specified linkage and do some elimination or smth) But I'm no computer scientist so these type of algorithmic looking problem baffle me.)

[sohkmj1]

I couldn't really understand the topic (just my stupidity, not your presentation), but wouldn't it be simpler to just do Love Story and craft house tabs for all the possible house locations?

[drixoman]

I couldn't really understand the topic (just my stupidity, not your presentation), but wouldn't it be simpler to just do Love Story and craft house tabs for all the possible house locations?

 

No. Because those are item that don't even actually teleport you to your house in the first place so the rest of the study would not be applicable as it all depend on starting from your house and using other "free" transportation along the way. :)

[Sir_Squab]

Um, this seems like a very.... artificial problem, considering no banking, ignoring the existence of house portal tabs, the fact that you can fairly easily find an alternative to all the spirit tree patches...

[Sy_Accursed]

In terms of places you can reach without banking or times:

1) You CAN have 3 portal rooms to have all 7 if you so wish.

2) You forgot to factor glory in.

 

With or without banking I think yanille still wins.

With banking as it closest to the bank. Without because you have:

Teleports to:

Camelot

Falador

Varrock

Lumbridge

Ardougne

Canafis

Edgeville

Draynor

Karamja

Al-Kharid

 

Then via being in Yanille:

Wizard's tower, Dark wizards tower and Sorcerer's tower via mage guild (sorcerer's being most useful)

Within reasonable run distance of fairy ring and charter ship* and glider and hot air balloon* and that orge log boat thingy and spirit tree.

 

So you have fairly fast access to most transport networks without even factoring in things like glory > edge is str8 into fairy rings and spirit trees.

 

*these obv require some item age though.

[Sir_Squab]

In terms of places you can reach without banking or times:

1) You CAN have 3 portal rooms to have all 7 if you so wish.

2) You forgot to factor glory in.

 

With or without banking I think yanille still wins.

With banking as it closest to the bank. Without because you have:

Teleports to:

Camelot

Falador

Varrock

Lumbridge

Ardougne

Canafis

Edgeville

Draynor

Karamja

Al-Kharid

 

Then via being in Yanille:

Wizard's tower, Dark wizards tower and Sorcerer's tower via mage guild (sorcerer's being most useful)

Within reasonable run distance of fairy ring and charter ship* and glider and hot air balloon* and that orge log boat thingy and spirit tree.

 

So you have fairly fast access to most transport networks without even factoring in things like glory > edge is str8 into fairy rings and spirit trees.

Not to mention, house glory > edge is str8 into fairy rings and spirit trees.

 

*these obv require some item age though.

 

Fixed.

[drixoman]

Um, this seems like a very.... artificial problem, considering no banking, ignoring the existence of house portal tabs, the fact that you can fairly easily find an alternative to all the spirit tree patches...

 

 

Yes unfortunately this is pretty much just a constructed problem with a control environment. But as I said if we involve banking then this probably be bit more difficult (how many item to take out/put back in, where's the nearest bank, how to get THERE now etc...).So I didn't want to go that far. And I said above, house portal tab (the cracked one) are just another item, like ectophial, amulet, etc...the only difference is they're perishable.

 

In terms of places you can reach without banking or times:

1) You CAN have 3 portal rooms to have all 7 if you so wish.

2) You forgot to factor glory in.

 

With or without banking I think yanille still wins.

With banking as it closest to the bank. Without because you have:

Teleports to:

Camelot

Falador

Varrock

Lumbridge

Ardougne

Canafis

Edgeville

Draynor

Karamja

Al-Kharid

 

Then via being in Yanille:

Wizard's tower, Dark wizards tower and Sorcerer's tower via mage guild (sorcerer's being most useful)

Within reasonable run distance of fairy ring and charter ship* and glider and hot air balloon* and that orge log boat thingy and spirit tree.

 

So you have fairly fast access to most transport networks without even factoring in things like glory > edge is str8 into fairy rings and spirit trees.

 

*these obv require some item age though.

 

 

glory...right...thanks for that (post been edited)...been some time since I been interested in this problem (although it has always been in the back of my head, I just don't have a single idea how to even start solving it...)

 

oh yeah I forgot to mention too now that you mention it, I don't want to have 3 chamber because the 2 portal will be redundant and that's bad overall. Beside, I think there is at least one portal in there that don't need to be considered of without risk (I'm thinking about Lumby now that canoes are axe-free, I can easily just reach that from GE...actually the reverse is probably true too...and ge has at least 2 other system to reach there anyway) Can you see why this might now be that simple? (okay maybe it's just me that can't see why it should be that simple LOL)

 

ideally the house should be in a location that can't be reached easily. I agree Yanille fit that description as it don't have a reusable transportation method (from house it's only one way). But as I said importance/relevance is not considered here so it's only which combination can give me the maximum amount of destination.

[Sy_Accursed]

Squab i fail to see what you're "fix" achieved. I thought it was inferred I meant house glory given that I mentioned further up about glory being forgotten.

 

And it's safe to say:

 

you are overcomplicating it.

Yanille wins hands down as base location simply for bank proximity.

 

With the new teletabs we can jump to any house portal anyway and everywhere is well covered with cheap/easy teles only exception being the southern reaches of morytanina; but even that has got a few now.

[Alphanos]

Bank proximity is irrelevant, because with proper portal placement you can get to a bank faster by using a Varrock portal to get to the GE. For that matter, the Camelot and Falador portals are pretty close to banks as well. Yanille bank would only be closer if you have your teleport set to drop you off outside your house, but that would slow all other transits other than banking.

 

If you have that much trouble deciding which 6 portals to get, then you're probably better off using 3 portal chambers to get them all. That said, there are some situations that make the portal exclusion choice easy. For example, if you end up placing your house in Yanille then you don't need a Yanille portal. If you're always or almost always on the regular spellbook, then you don't need a Lumbridge portal.

 

Spirit tree placement is mostly irrelevant when discussing house placement, since none of the trees are very close to the house portals. It's a separate problem, and doesn't combinatorically contribute to the complexity of the house problem. The closest possible link is between the Brimhaven house portal and spirit tree patch, but I highly doubt that transit is quicker than using a Varrock portal to reach the GE's spirit tree.

 

I recognize what you're saying about trying to make the problem "simpler" because including banking/items/etc would make for a much harder math problem. However, this isn't just a simpler problem, it's a fundamentally different problem altogether which gives entirely different answers to the real-world problem of how best to move around efficiently.

 

Prior to Love Story, I would say that either Rellekka or Sophanem would be the most useful house locations, since those are fairly useful places to get to without teleport equipment. After Love Story, the whole issue really boils down to cosmetics. I don't think there are any objective metagame factors involved.

[drixoman]

Well I have changed my mind many time where to place these thing and now here's the newest combination (without hard evidence it meet my goal):

 

I personally don't agree with putting house in Yanille. I'd put them in hard to reach location.

Taverly is reachable if you have access to mine cart, which lead from Varrock anyway.

Relleka has Ring and/or tree from Mis/Etc.

Brimhaven has Tree if chosen (a very wise choice I would think)

Yanille...well...I opt to portal it instead...

That leave Rimmington and Poll. Personally I am hoping Carpet will become free in the future so...finger crossed.

So I'd leave house in Rimmy

 

As for house portal, it's a debate between canifis vs lumby. They both have good alternative exit/entry thus won't affect the result anyway with the GE covered so I'll leave that till later.

 

And the spirit tree will be placed in Brimhaven (glory too far away) and Port Sarim. It was hard to decide between that or Etc. but the Draynor/Sarim area don't have exit point nearby (wizzy tower farther than Miscellania dock) so it's a judgement call.

[Sy_Accursed]

Well I have changed my mind many time where to place these thing and now here's the newest combination (without hard evidence it meet my goal):

 

I personally don't agree with putting house in Yanille. I'd put them in hard to reach location.

Taverly is reachable if you have access to mine cart, which lead from Varrock anyway.

Relleka has Ring and/or tree from Mis/Etc.

Brimhaven has Tree if chosen (a very wise choice I would think)

Yanille...well...I opt to portal it instead...

That leave Rimmington and Poll. Personally I am hoping Carpet will become free in the future so...finger crossed.

So I'd leave house in Rimmy

 

As for house portal, it's a debate between canifis vs lumby. They both have good alternative exit/entry thus won't affect the result anyway with the GE covered so I'll leave that till later.

 

And the spirit tree will be placed in Brimhaven (glory too far away) and Port Sarim. It was hard to decide between that or Etc. but the Draynor/Sarim area don't have exit point nearby (wizzy tower farther than Miscellania dock) so it's a judgement call.

 

rimmington has skills necklace to craft guild, mudskipper fairy ring and a hot air balloon.

Pollnivneach has slayer ring and tele scrolls.

All have chipped tele tablets.

[Alphanos]

As for house portal, it's a debate between canifis vs lumby.

 

I'm sorry, but at this point I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. With the possible exception of Varrock, the Canifis portal is the most useful of the lot.

[Wkw]

When I'm DKing, I have my house at rellekka

When I'm killing frosts, I have my house at rimmington if I'm not using rimmington tabs

[drixoman]

As for house portal, it's a debate between canifis vs lumby.

 

I'm sorry, but at this point I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. With the possible exception of Varrock, the Canifis portal is the most useful of the lot.

 

oh yeah real professional you guys...I guess this community just can't get serious after all

 

and I believe I mentioned importance/usefulness is irrelevant in this. If we were to include that then how do we define it in a quantifiable fashion? It's purely subjective base on what activity you do. For me it's just a node in the network, and hopefully it's not a dead-end.

 

fyi I don't know what a troll is and I'm not going to be bothered to know. That piece of information won't be useful to this discussion.

 

Oh and thanks for making this topic "hot". It is an honour to have created such lively discussion.

 

Now if any of you actually do know what geomatics is, I like to hear your thought on this. Thanks.

[Will H]

I know this thread is being made by a troll, but I've seen a fair few troll threads into meaningful ones, so I'll try to contribute.

 

Ever since Love Story, the location of your house doesn't really matter much if you've got the highly recommended set of 6 portals, a mounted glory and a stack of tablets sitting in your bank. I'd say the fact that Yanille is easy to reach is a good reason to park your house there, if your friends want to go in your house, they can access it quickly. Of course, there's going to be some less common situations where it might be better to park it somewhere else: If you plan to train Slayer for a bit but can't use slayer rings or chipped tablets yet, park it in Pollnivneach or Canifis (depending on where you find yourself going most often). If you use your house to recharge Summoning and Prayer when you're doing Frost Dragons, park it in Rimmington.

 

Just to play it safe though, I think Yanille probably has the most benefits of all of the locations.

[Sy_Accursed]

I know this thread is being made by a troll, but I've seen a fair few troll threads into meaningful ones, so I'll try to contribute.

 

Ever since Love Story, the location of your house doesn't really matter much if you've got the highly recommended set of 6 portals, a mounted glory and a stack of tablets sitting in your bank. I'd say the fact that Yanille is easy to reach is a good reason to park your house there, if your friends want to go in your house, they can access it quickly. Of course, there's going to be some less common situations where it might be better to park it somewhere else: If you plan to train Slayer for a bit but can't use slayer rings or chipped tablets yet, park it in Pollnivneach or Canifis (depending on where you find yourself going most often). If you use your house to recharge Summoning and Prayer when you're doing Frost Dragons, park it in Rimmington.

 

Just to play it safe though, I think Yanille probably has the most benefits of all of the locations.

 

There no house entrance in canafis. But pollnivneach is a good idea assuming you use sumona and/or other lower masters the regular assign tht stuff. But equally glory + carpets ain't exactly wasting huge amounts of time. And there is pollnivneach tele scrolls.

and yeah by time u start really wanting to throw house around for efficiency reasons u can easily afford the move. But yeah yanille is definitely the easiest parking place for friends access etc (assuming they lack chipped tabs)

[Sir_Squab]

As for house portal, it's a debate between canifis vs lumby.

 

I'm sorry, but at this point I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. With the possible exception of Varrock, the Canifis portal is the most useful of the lot.

 

oh yeah real professional you guys...I guess this community just can't get serious after all

 

and I believe I mentioned importance/usefulness is irrelevant in this. If we were to include that then how do we define it in a quantifiable fashion? It's purely subjective base on what activity you do. For me it's just a node in the network, and hopefully it's not a dead-end.

 

fyi I don't know what a troll is and I'm not going to be bothered to know. That piece of information won't be useful to this discussion.

 

Oh and thanks for making this topic "hot". It is an honour to have created such lively discussion.

 

Now if any of you actually do know what geomatics is, I like to hear your thought on this. Thanks.

 

We can't get serious about a question where importance and usefulness is irrelevant, because importance and usefulness are unquantifiable features?

 

You are asking an efficiency forum for an answer to a purely subjective question and yet somehow hope to quantifiably find the answer?

 

Furthermore, you are asking a question on a RuneScape efficiency sub-forum that has no actual practical or efficient answer, due to the way you insist on forbidding any transportation method that requires an item to use, excluding the use of a housetab to get to your house to start this journey or whatever you wish to call it.

 

A troll is someone who purposefully makes controversial statements in an attempt to make people angry and make a forum topic filled with anger and maliciousness, for the record. They tend to do this by obstinately sticking to a particular point of view, coming up with many reason for their view, most of which fail when actual logic is applied to them.

 

Now, from a purely mathematical standpoint, it is an interesting question.

 

However, I think yanille wins hands down. There are 3 portals to be acessed from the wizards guild in yanille. This also solves the portal problem, as yanille will be the missing portal. Edgeville leads to fairy rings which cuts out the usefulness of the Etceteria spirit tree, so put the spirit trees in the other two locations. This fairy ring also cuts out the usefulness of a Relleka house as since you are on Miscelania you can easily reach Relleka. The desert house has no interesting locations or transportation methods because the magic carpets aren't free. You said that a taverly house can be used to access varrock due to minecart system, therefore a varrock portal can access the taverly house. Rimmington has the frost dragons near it, however access via fairy ring (because of edgeville house glory) you can use that method instead, albeit it is slightly slower. I cannot think of any other interesting transportation methods to involve that do not involve the use of some sort of item.

 

I will lastly point out that none of my answers actually mean anything since you have already stated that this is a purely subjective question, thus defeating the entire purpose of asking it in the first place.

 

/thread.

[Nobody]

If you don't agree with this thread nobody is forcing you to post. On that note, if you have nothing constructive to add feel free to refrain from posting.

If you disagree, the less you post the less time this topic stays alive. ;)

[drixoman]

As for house portal, it's a debate between canifis vs lumby.

 

I'm sorry, but at this point I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. With the possible exception of Varrock, the Canifis portal is the most useful of the lot.

 

oh yeah real professional you guys...I guess this community just can't get serious after all

 

and I believe I mentioned importance/usefulness is irrelevant in this. If we were to include that then how do we define it in a quantifiable fashion? It's purely subjective base on what activity you do. For me it's just a node in the network, and hopefully it's not a dead-end.

 

fyi I don't know what a troll is and I'm not going to be bothered to know. That piece of information won't be useful to this discussion.

 

Oh and thanks for making this topic "hot". It is an honour to have created such lively discussion.

 

Now if any of you actually do know what geomatics is, I like to hear your thought on this. Thanks.

 

We can't get serious about a question where importance and usefulness is irrelevant, because importance and usefulness are unquantifiable features?

You are asking an efficiency forum for an answer to a purely subjective question and yet somehow hope to quantifiably find the answer?

Furthermore, you are asking a question on a RuneScape efficiency sub-forum that has no actual practical or efficient answer, due to the way you insist on forbidding any transportation method that requires an item to use, excluding the use of a housetab to get to your house to start this journey or whatever you wish to call it.

A troll is someone who purposefully makes controversial statements in an attempt to make people angry and make a forum topic filled with anger and maliciousness, for the record. They tend to do this by obstinately sticking to a particular point of view, coming up with many reason for their view, most of which fail when actual logic is applied to them.

Now, from a purely mathematical standpoint, it is an interesting question.

However, I think yanille wins hands down. There are 3 portals to be acessed from the wizards guild in yanille. This also solves the portal problem, as yanille will be the missing portal. Edgeville leads to fairy rings which cuts out the usefulness of the Etceteria spirit tree, so put the spirit trees in the other two locations. This fairy ring also cuts out the usefulness of a Relleka house as since you are on Miscelania you can easily reach Relleka. The desert house has no interesting locations or transportation methods because the magic carpets aren't free. You said that a taverly house can be used to access varrock due to minecart system, therefore a varrock portal can access the taverly house. Rimmington has the frost dragons near it, however access via fairy ring (because of edgeville house glory) you can use that method instead, albeit it is slightly slower. I cannot think of any other interesting transportation methods to involve that do not involve the use of some sort of item.

I will lastly point out that none of my answers actually mean anything since you have already stated that this is a purely subjective question, thus defeating the entire purpose of asking it in the first place.

 

/thread.

 

 

How is this a "purely subjective" question? There is a list of results in which one combo lead to the greatest number of locations. Only when if there is a tie in the final result then we need to consider which is actually useful, which IS subjective then. But obviously we're not there yet as we don't even know the result. By saying I don't care about actual game relevance I already trimmed this question down to a problem that's pretty much from a mathematical standpoint anyway. I have met many that have "persistently" claimed Yanille is the best choice. Personally I don't buy it. It seem like it and sure it is very relevant to actual game play in many aspect, but until it is prove that it actually fit the solution to this problem, I can only assume it being just another open option among many. (you know even if you do give me a result I can't really verify it anyway, but at least you tried and I would appreciate your effort and won't "appearing like a 'troll'", honestly don't you think 126 way is too much to handle with logic alone?) If you have forgotten what this is about here's a reminder: which combo lead to the greatest NUMBER of location you can reach starting from your house. By omitting bank use in mid travel I believe the problem is actually made simpler, not unsolvable like you seem to claim.

 

I agree pretty much this is "unpractical" but it's just the way I approach this level of customization. Heck I am not even giving attention to the actual distance/time between point in sec spend.

[Sy_Accursed]

Peoples point:

They all come out the same.

 

Any setup at all allows glory > fairy rings.

Fairy rings = fast access to every single location or transport to the few non-ringed areas.

 

Therefore rendering the actual location of the house pointless.

[Sir_Squab]

I called it purely subjective based on a part of your post I misread. I should apologize for that. I'm sorry.

 

Anyways, this thread doesn't belong in the meta-gaming forum, as you are asking a purely mathematical question of no practical purpose, which will therefore have no efficient answer.

 

Also, I just realized my answer fails; it states yanille is the best house portal due to 3 locations in wizards tower. However, a non-yanille house with a yanille port also covers this. Depending on what we consider the range of overlap, glory gets you to varrock. And fairy rings, which lead to canifis...

 

I think the real answer lies in determining all the places that overlap with the glory/fairy ring setup. Unless you want to ignore the house glory?

 

Also, the question needs to deal with the issue of overlap. Does, say, Edgeville overlap to Varrock? Edge/fairy rings to canifis? Should we just ignore overlap entirely? Should we create a "range" of acceptable overlap?

 

Also, what's an acceptable run distance? Varrock to spirit trees is supported by you; if we are following that pattern, glory>edge>fairy rings should be supported...

[drixoman]

feel free to move the thread elsewhere

 

Now.... it is actually quite "subjective" on what actually overlap...but once you have a distance it should be applied consistently. Actually it's really based if the actual point lies in the acceptable area of the place or not (say Rimmington wouldn't be part of Port Sarim, but edgeville be part of GE, and place such as Legend Guild Fairy is just by itself.) Basically the problem first need to have the world divided into acceptable region and then be calculated who can jump to who and all tallied for comparison. (I imagine there might be a lot of ties and similarities in the final result but that's when we have the result)

 

It's really quite illogical as you DO need to subjectively decide which point's in what region, but that's not necessarily the problem. It is rather a set variable that will be assumed to be provided. It's the relationship between these set region in terms of transportation that is the concern here. I had used edgeville/GE as a region but I am not actually including Varrock's central square (and it's surrounding) to be in the same region since combining them I realized would be redundant for a Varrock portal (assuming I could switch it to GE). So I opted to leave Varrock as it is to have one more option. In the same way, the same running distance probably exist between Sarim/Draynor and Edgeville/GE, but it might be a different scheme.

 

personally I don't have what belong with what made up...but the solution to my problem is pretty much just an algorithm from a compsci perspective. It doesn't really matter what the input to this program would look like because they'll only vary in the data, not the structure (which is two level, region+what system exist in what direction (outbound/inbound)

[Will H]

Peoples point:

They all come out the same.

 

Any setup at all allows glory > fairy rings.

Fairy rings = fast access to every single location or transport to the few non-ringed areas.

 

Therefore rendering the actual location of the house pointless.

 

Oh yes, my mistake. All this talk of portals is making me confused.

[bedman]

A house in Yanille would be stupid because you can just use watchtower teleport to tele right in the middle of Yanille. Rimmington, Taverly or Relekka are probably most useful, though with chipped tabs, your house can be pretty much anywhere. Mine is at Taverly right now, since I don't DK much (had it there to do Yak summoning training, from before teletabs)

[Sy_Accursed]

A house in Yanille would be stupid because you can just use watchtower teleport to tele right in the middle of Yanille. Rimmington, Taverly or Relekka are probably most useful, though with chipped tabs, your house can be pretty much anywhere. Mine is at Taverly right now, since I don't DK much (had it there to do Yak summoning training, from before teletabs)

 

Chipped tabs aside:

 

If yanille is "stupid" becuz of watchtower tele.

Then surely rellekka is stupid because of lyre, fremmy boots, lunar teles, slayer and a number of fairy rings that all drop you closer to the useful spots in that area than house does.

Rimmington is stupid because of the number of teles that drop you in more useful spots in that area. Skills necklace, and mudskipper fairy ring specifically.

Taverly because of again another array of teles dropping your right there and closer to the useful spots.