Advanced Dungeoneering Help/Tactics/Tips & Tricks

[Troll Bomber]

I've recently taken interest into Dungeoneering again, this time with an all new perspective.

 

Last time I DG'd heavily, it was only to buy a rapier and unlock frosts, and I though for sure I'd be done after 85 for good. Since then I've created bigger goals that I want to accomplish, one of which includes 120 DG.

 

I have started keying a few floors here and there recently, as well as DPSing floors often with others, but am still disappointed in the outcomes of my efforts in both fields. I understand that I am slowly getting better, and have accepted the fact that experience gained overtime will be the biggest factor in my ability to learn, understand, and overall master the skill. However, I believe until then, there are several useful bits of information out there that I may not be aware about, as well as answers to some questions I may have. The following are questions which I would greatly appreciate help with (emphasis on keyer questions):

 

• [DPS] What attack styles are useful on different monsters (Crush = Ghosts) ect.
  
• [DPS] Killing priorities in rooms (Forsaken Mage/Necro > ?).
  
• [DPS] How to better sidestep and move around GDs to avoid damage.
  
• [KEYER] Prioritizing room clearance tips (Which rooms should have higher priority?).
  
• [KEYER] How to read/understand where the critical path is.
  
• [KEYER] How to keep DPSers busy during idle time when not doing GDs.
  
• [KEYER] How to cut down on idle time in the first place.
  
• [KEYER] How to know when the group gatestone needs to be moved by someone else (I understand the basics behind this, this question ties into the "room priorities question")
  
• [bOSS] Which bosses is it best to use ragers on, or rather, which bosses shouldn't I use them on? Also, is there ever a time in which a familiar other than a rager is useful/acceptable?
  
• [bOSS] I understand that thunderous is always towards 1 corner of his little platform more than the others. With respect to the corner he's closest too, is there any particular pillar that is best to hide behind?
  
• [bOSS] On flesh floors, is it best to have a tanker? If so, what prayers do tanks/DPSers use throughout the fight? I've tried "tanking" once and died while praying melee due to the strong mage attacks, so does everyone just use mage pray?
  
• [ROOMS] When you need to catch the ferret running around, is bare-hand catching always better or are traps ever a viable option? It seems that bare-handed takes some time often, but never see anyone use a trap either.
  

These are just some of the questions I have come up with for the time being. Seeing as I'm only 91 DG at the time of writing this, I'm sure many more will pop up later as I progress. As I said before, I'm sure most of my experience will come with time and learning sevearl different things on my own, but for the time being, I'm open to all advice. Thank you.

[ghjkl]

I've recently taken interest into Dungeoneering again, this time with an all new perspective.

 

Last time I DG'd heavily, it was only to buy a rapier and unlock frosts, and I though for sure I'd be done after 85 for good. Since then I've created bigger goals that I want to accomplish, one of which includes 120 DG.

 

I have started keying a few floors here and there recently, as well as DPSing floors often with others, but am still disappointed in the outcomes of my efforts in both fields. I understand that I am slowly getting better, and have accepted the fact that experience gained overtime will be the biggest factor in my ability to learn, understand, and overall master the skill. However, I believe until then, there are several useful bits of information out there that I may not be aware about, as well as answers to some questions I may have. The following are questions which I would greatly appreciate help with (emphasis on keyer questions):

 

• [DPS] What attack styles are useful on different monsters (Crush = Ghosts) ect.
  look in the metagame place
  
• [DPS] Killing priorities in rooms (Forsaken Mage/Necro > ?).
  shade necro mage then other stuff
  
• [DPS] How to better sidestep and move around GDs to avoid damage.
  trap meleers behind magers/rangers
  
• [KEYER] Prioritizing room clearance tips (Which rooms should have higher priority?).
  whichever one leads to the bigger path
  
• [KEYER] How to read/understand where the critical path is.
  paths behind pot rooms are not critical, there is no way to tell otherwise unless you se guide mode
  
• [KEYER] How to keep DPSers busy during idle time when not doing GDs.
  separating roles between keyers and dpsers is what killed dgs in the first place, i recommend not going through that path, everyone should be running paths and moving the ggs appropriately
  
• [KEYER] How to cut down on idle time in the first place.
  always make sure the ggs is in a area where people are needed
  
• [KEYER] How to know when the group gatestone needs to be moved by someone else (I understand the basics behind this, this question ties into the "room priorities question")
  when the area around the ggs is completed
  
• [bOSS] Which bosses is it best to use ragers on, or rather, which bosses shouldn't I use them on? Also, is there ever a time in which a familiar other than a rager is useful/acceptable?
  use ragers on every boss you can
  
• [bOSS] I understand that thunderous is always towards 1 corner of his little platform more than the others. With respect to the corner he's closest too, is there any particular pillar that is best to hide behind?
  the one that allows you to see his messages better
  
• [bOSS] On flesh floors, is it best to have a tanker? If so, what prayers do tanks/DPSers use throughout the fight? I've tried "tanking" once and died while praying melee due to the strong mage attacks, so does everyone just use mage pray?
  dont tank it doesn't matter
  
• [ROOMS] When you need to catch the ferret running around, is bare-hand catching always better or are traps ever a viable option? It seems that bare-handed takes some time often, but never see anyone use a trap either.
  

put 2 traps near a corner and lure the ferret to the corner

These are just some of the questions I have come up with for the time being. Seeing as I'm only 91 DG at the time of writing this, I'm sure many more will pop up later as I progress. As I said before, I'm sure most of my experience will come with time and learning sevearl different things on my own, but for the time being, I'm open to all advice. Thank you.

[AHappySeeker]

Flesh should be tanked by one person, yes. He will use a blockable magic attack and switch targets until he uses a melee attack on someone. If its target switches to praying melee during the attack, Flesh will stay on that person and only use melee. If you're dying after this point, then you suck at looting food properly.

 

EDIT: To clarify, the AOE attacks that he uses, even after locking into melee against one target, are NOT blockable. Do not pray against them.

[i_trollz_u]

use ragers on every boss you can

 

You don't rager flesh or necrolord.

 

And sometimes it's hard to know which leads to the bigger path, so the order that doors should be opened in if keying is key doors>skill doors>puzzles>gd (whichever doors take the shortest amount of time to open, although really it could vary depending on the location of your team, and puzzles can sometimes take as long as gds anyway). Same order applies to the rest of the team.

[Obtaurian]

These are all questions that can't really be answered with anything short of an essay. You should try DGS if you're that serious about dungeoneering. You won't really get answers elsewhere.

[LitterBug]

Flesh should be tanked by one person, yes. He will use a blockable magic attack and switch targets until he uses a melee attack on someone. If its target switches to praying melee during the attack, Flesh will stay on that person and only use melee. If you're dying after this point, then you suck at looting food properly.

 

EDIT: To clarify, the AOE attacks that he uses, even after locking into melee against one target, are NOT blockable. Do not pray against them.

 

Also, do not use ragers on flesh (I've heard of people using it just to sunder and then dismiss - but not sure if it works).

Haven't gotten teams where people rager and the flesh spoiler just ends up switching targets/styles which makes it a lot more annoying then it has to be.

 

However you can rager/sunder/whatever the second form as it only does melees (and those little bugs that it spawns too)

[Nifflin]

My posts got removed when this thread got cleaned up, despite them having some helpful info, luckily I had them in another tab so I can still post it.

 

There are entire guides that attempt to answer these questions. Ghjkl is wrong because his answers are far too simplistic. Unfortunately I can't link you to the forums where all that material is hosted due to Tip.It policy. I really do suggest though that you look into DGS. The questions you are asking are what the clan is all about. Since the answers are complex we always try to improve our dging as we build answers to them. Ultimately though, nothing teaches these types of advanced techniques better then seeing them in practice. If you really want a good look at what we are about try browsing through this thread, it's over 100 pages long and you can really see how people have progressed. Het_Volk is asking what gsing doors is in the early pages seven months ago, now he's an amazing keyer.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/288181-dungeonsweepers-dgs-huge-changes%3B-read-first-post/page__st__80

 

I think instructions for the new way to join are in there in the first post.

 

Also tank flesh. When he melees turn on melee pray during the attack. This stops him from changing targets during the first phase. During the second everyone should pray melee. Mage pray doesn't block any damage during flesh, so if you're not tanking just ss + turm/peity.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Ultimately, a lot of your skill and experience comes from your own dungeoneering time, as you develop a style and play through the skill firsthand to understand what other people do and how to execute your dungeon trawl successfully.

 

For instance, you can have a prescribed kill order, which generally tells you which monsters are more dangerous and thus should be dispatched first. However, not all situations call for the prescribed kill order.

For example, a room with 4 mages and 1 ranger will generally have you protect magic and kill the ranger first, since it's the only thing doing damage to you as you're unhooded. A room with a 136 skeleton and 113 mage would have you kill the mage with protect ranged on because the skeleton has a much faster attack rate. You develop this knowledge while in these circumstances in Daemonheim, and that is most important to your training in this skill. A little practice and the tricks in Dungeoneering will become almost second nature to you, letting you notice things that you wouldn't have recognised as important before.

[notasoupbowl]

I don't have time to answer questions for non-dgsers really, but here's a guide I wrote:

http://postimage.org/image/2iqbfebus/

It should help you become more aware of paths and map prioritization while dnging.

[Jimmyw3000]

with room clearence it also depends on how many hexer/csb/ccs/(maul/rapier) users there are.