11-Oct-2011 - Update on our ongoing battle against bots

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

So they admitted that the problem is too much for them to handle alone, and that they've been too quiet about what's really happening.

Just...wow.

 

I don't think they're just now admitting it. It's what was commonly understood to be necessary, which is why we have player mods and reports in the first place. But Jagex was heavily criticized for a lack of visible results breeding apathy to the situation in their player base. I think that was more of the reason for this newspost than a sudden revelation more than anything.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

It's horribly bad PR and ruins the faith one has with their customers if they promised they could handle a problem, but some time later reveal that the problem over their heads. Well, Daniel Clough put it more succinctly:

 

As a result, one thing has become really clear to us despite our ongoing efforts.

 

We cannot win this battle alone. We need your help.

 

 

(His emphasis, not mine.)

 

Jagex has been as forthcoming with their anti-bot information as a tight-lipped CFO during an embezzlement investigation. I can't say I'd anticipate visible results until something else drastic happens, such as another removal of the Wilderness, or a fundamental change to the game itself.

 

Jagex will continue to be heavily criticized until they have lived up to their own lofty promise. Until then, they can remain under the magnifier for another year or so.

 

As for PMods? No, Player Moderators do not exist to report bots. In fact, the reports made by any one Player Moderator in this category have the same priority and effect as any other normal person's report.

[SwreeTak]

So they admitted that the problem is too much for them to handle alone, and that they've been too quiet about what's really happening.

Just...wow.

 

I don't think they're just now admitting it. It's what was commonly understood to be necessary, which is why we have player mods and reports in the first place. But Jagex was heavily criticized for a lack of visible results breeding apathy to the situation in their player base. I think that was more of the reason for this newspost than a sudden revelation more than anything.

 

Agreed. Jagex had to take some action now, and I am very happy that they finally did. Let's just hope they actually do something about the bots now too :)

[Blyaunte]

Dear RuneScape Community,

And finally, we would ask that you refrain from using bots or supporting gold farmers. If there is not a market, then bots will not exist. As was so eloquently put in a recent post on Tip.it “Standing up to Jagex [by voicing one’s opinion on the botting issue], one might argue, requires a certain amount of courage, but much more is required to stand up to one’s friends”. The player went on to say, “The community needs to stand up for itself by following the rules and shunning those who do not. Lacking customers, the websites that set up the bots will close, and the only botter will be the isolated real player. Ultimately, following the three pillars of the code of conduct that Jagex set up-“Honour,” “Respect,” and “Security” are a responsibility of the players and the community as much as they are of Jagex.”

 

Do we have the source of that quote somewhere?

 

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone? :lol:

[Kimberly]

It's horribly bad PR and ruins the faith one has with their customers if they promised they could handle a problem, but some time later reveal that the problem over their heads.

 

...

 

As for PMods? No, Player Moderators do not exist to report bots. In fact, the reports made by any one Player Moderator in this category have the same priority and effect as any other normal person's report.

 

I don't understand?

 

PR stunt, yes. If they thought lip-service was enough at this point, we would not have seen the changes to ad-bots, chat changes, and frost dragon changes. But these things are necessary to start getting the player base on their side. But the way I think of it is: I knew they were full of shit when they said they could stop bots when free trade came back. I voted yes anyway, because it was a step in the right direction. And I look at this newspost, which has a less bullshit ring to it, and also think that the efforts from these things are steps in the right direction.

 

You have said that rewriting the entire nature of the game would cost vast amounts of money and manhours to make goldfarming useless. We both know that Jagex can't do that. They have no choice to make pleas like this to get people to lessen their dependency on goldfarmers, by bolstering their faith in them with attempts and (spotty) successes. The newspost itself was a persuasive argument, which is why they used bold statements like, "We can't do it without your help!". The updates that followed were the attempts and (spotty) successes.

 

So whether or not you agree with the referrendum/free trade stuff and the fluff that went isn't the point. That is why I said that it was always commonly understood that they needed the community to police itself. That's why they made this post. The community has turned to botting because of personal gain, either by RL cash or ease of play, and Jagex will take whatever cost-effective solutions they can get their hands on. (ie persuading people to stop botting/supporting goldfarming)

 

Yeah, they're far from a dazzling white reputation in my eyes, but they're starting to scrub at those nasty stains.

[Riptide Mage]

I'm happy to see something like this. Pushing aside my reservations, I would like to imagine that this is a turning point.

 

This.

Hopefully this is the beginning of a bot decimation.

 

Why would you want only 1/10 bots gone?

[Kimberly]

Why would you want only 1/10 bots gone?

 

What do you mean?

[Saradomin_Mage]

Doesn't decimation mean something along the lines of destruction and eradication, and have nothing to do with the decimal system?

[firebird308]

Why would you want only 1/10 bots gone?

 

What do you mean?

 

They're taking it literally as a reference to a Roman thing.

[Kimberly]

They're taking it literally as a reference to a Roman thing.

 

 

Oh, hah, I get it. XD :$

[pal2002]

A few other games have found the morale benefits of letting people see direction action towards cheaters. In Guild Wars and Aion, GM's will come into the game and literally blow up the bot/spammer. Vogster posts statistics on a weekly basis of how many people are caught cheating, and a few games still throw out public server messages when a player is banned for botting.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFfy90w_C9A

Now that's what I want to see from an mmo dev - integrity.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

It's horribly bad PR and ruins the faith one has with their customers if they promised they could handle a problem, but some time later reveal that the problem over their heads.

 

...

 

As for PMods? No, Player Moderators do not exist to report bots. In fact, the reports made by any one Player Moderator in this category have the same priority and effect as any other normal person's report.

 

I don't understand?

 

PR stunt, yes. If they thought lip-service was enough at this point, we would not have seen the changes to ad-bots, chat changes, and frost dragon changes. But these things are necessary to start getting the player base on their side. But the way I think of it is: I knew they were full of shit when they said they could stop bots when free trade came back. I voted yes anyway, because it was a step in the right direction. And I look at this newspost, which has a less bullshit ring to it, and also think that the efforts from these things are steps in the right direction.

 

You have said that rewriting the entire nature of the game would cost vast amounts of money and manhours to make goldfarming useless. We both know that Jagex can't do that. They have no choice to make pleas like this to get people to lessen their dependency on goldfarmers, by bolstering their faith in them with attempts and (spotty) successes. The newspost itself was a persuasive argument, which is why they used bold statements like, "We can't do it without your help!". The updates that followed were the attempts and (spotty) successes.

 

So whether or not you agree with the referrendum/free trade stuff and the fluff that went isn't the point. That is why I said that it was always commonly understood that they needed the community to police itself. That's why they made this post. The community has turned to botting because of personal gain, either by RL cash or ease of play, and Jagex will take whatever cost-effective solutions they can get their hands on. (ie persuading people to stop botting/supporting goldfarming)

 

Yeah, they're far from a dazzling white reputation in my eyes, but they're starting to scrub at those nasty stains.

 

I'll clarify one point of orthography then: The implied promise was that Jagex already had this covered. Of course, most of us knew they were full of it when they said this, but there were some of us that were cautiously optimistic - myself included.

 

The reason that I don't like this PR statement, rather, why I feel like this entire PR statement is so full of manure that I could tend a large farm with it, hinges on what "their word" said way back when, and what it's saying now. It's a huge let-down to hear that Jagex really can't handle this issue after all, and while the some in the community are eager to "help solve" the botting problem, it's nothing more than one giant smokescreen.

 

The bot problem is an iceberg. We only see the surface of the thing, but not the rest lurking below.

 

We don't know what measures Jagex has taken that have failed against bots.

We don't know what measures Jagex has considered but won't implement due to ramifications (technical, legal, etc).

We don't know what resources they would devote to a concrete solution.

We don't know how bad the problem is from their end.

 

At this point, I would disagree that this move ("this move" defined as tweaking the frost dragons) is a step in the right direction. It's really, more or less, a bandage on a wound that's well beyond the rotting flesh phase. You'll certainly have the fanbase who believes that Jagex has a chance of fending the hoardes off for another year or two backing them, but how much longer, realistically, can Jagex keep preaching over-the-top changes and/or new tactics to fight bots until they've got the T-shirt for it?

[Kimberly]

Fair points. Thanks for explaining them more in-depth for me. I appreciate it.