The Back Room

[Ieyfura]

Anyway~ FURAAAA I told you what you should do~ dummy! >u< Go look at really good artists' drawings, get jelly, draw! TA-DA~

 

 

I don't get jealous of better art though. I fall in love with it. So it's not really the motivation that would work tbh. I mean, in teh long run, it would, it keeps the desire to get better there. But to actually keep at it every day. I can't find that motivation.

[Vixion]

Anyway~ FURAAAA I told you what you should do~ dummy! >u< Go look at really good artists' drawings, get jelly, draw! TA-DA~

 

 

I don't get jealous of better art though. I fall in love with it. So it's not really the motivation that would work tbh. I mean, in teh long run, it would, it keeps the desire to get better there. But to actually keep at it every day. I can't find that motivation.

 

 

Poor child.... Watch me draw? c:

[Jehosaphat]

Ugh. I can't find any motivation whatsoever to pick up a pencil and practice drawing. It's like. RAAAWRRR!!! Anyone have any good tips on how to keep myself motivated?

Personally I use pr0nz.

Wrong type of "inspiration" there...

 

Personally, I draw... well, whenever. I still have a bunch of concept art that I'm doing, so it's not for a lack of things to draw. :P

[Resistance]

ACTUALLY If it hadn't been for the USA in WWII....you would belong to Germany right now ;D

 

What say you now?

 

America only joined towards the end and did barely anything, if America hadn't intervened then there would've been far less deaths.

[Jehosaphat]

ACTUALLY If it hadn't been for the USA in WWII....you would belong to Germany right now ;D

 

What say you now?

America only joined towards the end and did barely anything, if America hadn't intervened then there would've been far less deaths.

No offense intended, but... how do you know what would or would not have happened? Do you have some magical machine that lets you view alternate timelines where things happened differently?

 

Because if so, I'd like to borrow it. Don't ask why.

[Earth]

Well, it's getting the Tavern back on it's feet, Rocco.

[The_Mather1]

I know this started with me getting hungrier as I ate last night, but I can't remember how it got to this.

[Resistance]

America joined the war later then most other countrys.

They weren't involved in Stalingrad and thus didn't take any part in toppling Germany.

They're involvement was minor, if they hadn't of been involved then Germany still wouldn't have been able to send for troops in different area's.

[Icuownage]

America was a very big part of the pacific, just because they didn't fight Germany directly as much as Russia or Britain doesn't mean they didn't do anything.

 

Without America, Japan could have even invaded Russia, which would have proved dangerous for the Russians' who would not be able to handle a war on two sides, they were pretty much at their break point with Germany.

[Resistance]

America was a very big part of the pacific, just because they didn't fight Germany directly as much as Russia or Britain doesn't mean they didn't do anything.

 

Without America, Japan could have even invaded Russia, which would have proved dangerous for the Russians' who would not be able to handle a war on two sides, they were pretty much at their break point with Germany.

 

I was combatting what Vixion said.

 

ACTUALLY If it hadn't been for the USA in WWII....you would belong to Germany right now ;D

 

-

 

It doesn't seem very likely that Japan would've invaded Russia, they had enough trouble on there hands even without the Americans.

[Icuownage]

I believe America also sold weapons and supplies to Britain, this probably saved Britain at some point....

[archimage_a]

Without America, Japan could have even invaded Russia, which would have proved dangerous for the Russians' who would not be able to handle a war on two sides, they were pretty much at their break point with Germany.

 

Japan had no reason to invade Russia, hence why they signed a non-aggression pact. Which freed up lots of Siberian troops for action on the Eastern Front(Or from their perspective...the Western Front)

 

The only thing the Japanese were interested in, at the time, was the Dutch Oil Supplies, because America had embargoed them.

[Resistance]

You're clutching on straws there Ico.

--

For some reason my telephone number isn't working on thingeek, I'm using area codes and everything.

Any suggestions?

[Icuownage]

Eh I'm not that good with history, being as I never even took it for GCSE. I do like history, but I do not go out of my way to learn it all the time.

 

Also, not really.

 

Britain really did need help back then.

[Retech]

Two points:

 

1. Japanese signed non-aggression pact with Russia only because its leaders felt that pursuing expansion in both the northern and southern fronts would stretch the Japanese too thin, To this effect, they decided to go with the Southern option and signed peace with Russia. However, without the United States, the Japanese would have turned onto Russia after having conquered all of Asia in a relatively short period of time.

 

2. The selling of arms to Britain and Soviet Union was known as Lend Lease, which existed even before the US entered the war.

[archimage_a]

1. Japanese signed non-aggression pact with Russia only because its leaders felt that pursuing expansion in both the northern and southern fronts would stretch the Japanese too thin, To this effect, they decided to go with the Southern option and signed peace with Russia. However, without the United States, the Japanese would have turned onto Russia after having conquered all of Asia in a relatively short period of time.

There was no reason to turn on Russia. Russia had no Oil in Sibera.

Without the United States Japan would have never developed a large fleet...So the argument there is nullified.

 

 

2. The selling of arms to Britain and Soviet Union was known as Lend Lease, which existed even before the US entered the war.

 

Glorified Arms Dealer...

Lining your pockets turns you into mercenaries...

[Retech]

The Russians still had substantial areas in the Manchuria and Mongolian regions that were rich in natural resources. Navy has nothing to do with it.

[archimage_a]

Without a Navy, Japan doesn't invade Manchuria. :mellow:

 

Please don't make me post a map to show why Japan needs a navy to invade Manchuria.

 

 

Point being that America poked Japan into action. Without America there is no real development on Japan, Japan never seeks to emulate the west. Japan never expands. Never seeks the rich resources of China.

 

 

Argument is rather holey...I mean, without America then there is a massive chasm where the USA should be, history is bound to be very different.

 

 

But, basically...Japan had enough 'Rich mineral resources' what it needed was Oil, to power the Navy.

Oil which, up until then, had come from America. (Approximately 80%, if memory serves)

Once America embargos them they can have all the 'Rich Mineral Resources' you like in China...Without Oil you can't transport them to Japan.

 

ERGO

Japan signs the non-aggression pact with Russia (Yes they could have invaded...it would have got them exactly nowhere. Since Siberia contains no Oil(Or Oil that was known about and exploitable in 9 months...the point when Japan would have run out of Oil).).

Japan rushes into war with America, hoping to destroy their fleet in a sneak attack.

They then rapidly took control of Southern Asia...largely controlled by France, Britain and the Dutch...All of which, with the exception of the British Indians, had been throughly drained by the 2 years earlier.

They then charged into the Dutch East Indies...with the vast Oil Fields, and captured them to survive.

 

 

Invading Russia fufilled no objective, since Russia clearly was not going to invade them.

[Retech]

Okay, we're talking about United States involvement in World War two, not the lack of the United States, period.

[Jehosaphat]

Without a Navy, Japan doesn't invade Manchuria. :mellow:

 

Please don't make me post a map to show why Japan needs a navy to invade Manchuria.

And why, exactly, could they not do so with airplanes? Just out of curiosity.

[Resistance]

Okay, we're talking about United States involvement in World War two, not the lack of the United States, period.

Aeroplanes didn't carry as many people as they carry now, technology has advanced.

[archimage_a]

Ok...So, the USA doesn't embargo Japan.

Japan invades Russia.

Russia is defeated.

Britian is defeated.

America sits idle.

Germany launches bombing raids on New York in 1946 with their Stealth Long Range Bomber.

America, tries to engage its industrial complex, but finds itself assailed by Japanese on the East Coast and Germans on the West Coast.

America surrenders.

 

 

Yup, America was needed for the war.

 

 

Now, consider this:

 

Germany invades Poland.

Britian declines involvement.

France follows Britian.

Germany invades Russia.

Russia is conquered entirely.

Britian and Frace sit idle.

Japan attacks America at Pearl Harbour, destroying most of their fleet.

Germany declares war on America.

The Combined German and Japanese Fleets destroy the American fleet, which is now devoid of the Enigma codebooks, the team at Bletchley Park, Radar, Asdic, and the other British inventions.

America surrenders.

 

Britian is vital for the war.

 

Ect, ect.

[archimage_a]

And why, exactly, could they not do so with airplanes? Just out of curiosity.

 

A) Flying 30,000 troops, without an airfield to start with.

B) Flying the resources home again would not be cost effective.

C) Even nowadays only 1% of all freight is sent by airplane.

D) Without the resources from Macheria/ect...how are they going to build these airplanes?

[Jehosaphat]

And why, exactly, could they not do so with airplanes? Just out of curiosity.

 

A) Flying 30,000 troops, without an airfield to start with.

B) Flying the resources home again would not be cost effective.

C) Even nowadays only 1% of all freight is sent by airplane.

D) Without the resources from Macheria/ect...how are they going to build these airplanes?

Good point.

[archimage_a]

My point is that your argument is valid, but that America not getting involved would have been fundermentally stupid on their part (Something that the American Public were profoundly set on doing).

 

I have no problem in giving America credit for their involvement in the war (That is Resistance who has that problem), I am just pointing out that America didn't go in to the war to save Britian or the rest of the world...They went into the war because if they hadn't they would have been forced to fight on their own, against a much larger enemy.

 

Also pointing out that selling guns and tanks to someone is not the same as fighting by their side, and America should not be given credit for making money out of a war.

 

After the December 1941 I am happy to give America equal credit in fighting the War...They fought, and fought well.

 

You can quibble that Britian provided the technological drive (Computers, Radar, Convoy System, Jet Engines(Search Frank Whittle)), Russia provided the raw manpower and meatgrinder, while America provided the money and equipment...

Personally, I would view all three powers as equally neccessary to allied victory.