The Back Room

[Nero]

Pick up that can.

[The_Mather1]

Not only isn't it over, he hasn't played any of the current episodes either.

[archimage_a]

Not a plothole, headcrabs were intended as an indicator of their actual weakness, something which is backed up by the ruined state of for example Nova Prospect

 

A tactical nuke has a far wider range than one kilometer. But I don't think they could make one, they've still not used any explosive device larger than a heli-bomb... unless you count the citadel.

 

The combine soldiers are capable of learning, just not disobediance. And Breen's not insane, but let's just say he's not exactly a scientist either, he's a failed shrink with Napoleon's complex.

 

So they are able to defeat all of Earth's Armies in seven or eight hours...but are unable to storm a single town...Instead they use a weapon which damages them?

It looks like a plot hole because the way you constructed your argument is 'Head Crabs are more dangerous than Resistance Fighters' then 'The Head Crabs are used to fight the Resistance Fighters because they are easier to kill'. So...

 

A Tactical Nuke, such as the Davy Crockett, has a lethal range of 402.34 Meters. In any case duct taping a thousand pounds of explosives and flying a drop ship over the town is hardly impossible to do...

Even if they didn't want to do that then there is radioactive waste hanging about everywhere, couple of barrels delievered strategically and Ravenholm becomes uninhabitable.

 

The point is that housing the combine barrack in the same building as the suppression field seems rather foolish...It also makes it difficult to work out why the Combine then used dropships to get troops into the bank...

 

 

@Rocco:

Plot Holes are those annoying gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason. When a Plot Hole involves something essential to a story's outcome, it can hurt the believability severely for those who are bothered by it.

In some cases, what one person sees as a plot hole could be seen by another as something that makes sense if enough thought is put into it, or makes sense but was not adequately explained. Examples here will therefore be subjective.

In any case, grumpy old man post should have indicated I knew I was being mildly unreasonable...doesn't stop me being annoyed by the game though.

[The_Mather1]

They were underestimating the headcrabs at the time they started using them, when they found out the dangers it was to late to stop using them without people calling their bluff. Anyways resistance members are more dangerous to them, but the headcrabs were actually infesting their areas whereas the resistance kept hidden.

 

As previously stated, any other form of attack could have been unfeasible at the time, the headcrab cannisters are after all just fired out of a mortat and are probably their least advanced weapon.

 

They needed backup, just think about what you found in that bank; lots of overwatch pulse rifles both stored away ready to be grabbed and also smaller prison cells for people to be interogated.

[archimage_a]

They were underestimating the headcrabs at the time they started using them, when they found out the dangers it was to late to stop using them without people calling their bluff. Anyways resistance members are more dangerous to them, but the headcrabs were actually infesting their areas whereas the resistance kept hidden.

 

It seems unlikely anyone would particularly notice...I mean people find new weapons all the time. And if they did, would people be overly effected?

I mean, imagine you are in a World War 1 trench and suddenly the enemy begin firing a gas shells instead of explosive shells. You don't think 'Oh My God, the enemy are out of explosives, they must be getting weaker!'

Or at the start of the game, when you are using the pistol to defeat everything, then you virtually never use it again because you have better guns.

 

And the Combine need to find the Resistance bases first, then fire the missiles...So they are just trading one problem for another...and if they are spending all their time defeating the headcrabs, wouldn't it make more sense to spend their time defeating the Resistance...

 

 

As previously stated, any other form of attack could have been unfeasible at the time, the headcrab cannisters are after all just fired out of a mortat and are probably their least advanced weapon.

The Lost Coast disagrees with you, it seems like a pretty massive cannon. If your least advanced weapon is a massive cannon, and you are a star spanning empire, then there is a rather large plot hole there.

 

They needed backup, just think about what you found in that bank; lots of overwatch pulse rifles both stored away ready to be grabbed and also smaller prison cells for people to be interogated.

Where is the backup coming from? If this is the Barracks for the whole city...and why would they have prisoners in the barrack?

[The_Mather1]

Anyways after reading the wiki I have found out that the combine did attack themselves, they just sent the headcrabs in to weaken their defences. The lack of combine corpses can be explained by Grigori's "funeral" pyre and the lack of scraps by his traps.

 

The backup could've come from different places in the world, originally intended to fight of the main force during the uprising. And as I said the prisoners were probably there for interogation...

Yeah, it's called the Overwatch Nexus, literally the Overwatch (Combine Soldier/Metrocop) Center.

EDIT: Nope, Overwatch refers to their entire military, including the Airwatch, though not Metrocops.

[archimage_a]

Errr...Ok... From experience, fighting Combine troops is easier than fighting the Venom Monsters and the skinny zombies...though the normal zombies were easier to kill, provided they didn't play dead and then attack from behind or below.

The headcrabs themselves are more varriable...If there are alot milling about in front of you then they are easy, if they are hiding in vents or behind doors, they are harder than Combine Soliders.

 

And fighting unarmoured humans, usually unarmed, and when they are they are poorly armed...Is easier than the Combine...So replacing easy to kill enemies with hard to kill enemies...Seems plotholed.

 

And it still doesn't explain why they didn't just conventionally bomb them...

 

 

The backup could've come from different places in the world, originally intended to fight of the main force during the uprising. And as I said the prisoners were probably there for interogation...

Yeah, it's called the Overwatch Nexus, literally the Overwatch (Combine Soldier/Metrocop) Center.

 

Could'a. Seems rather pathetic though...the 'Capital'(I believe it is refered as such in the opening chapter) City's Barracks needs help fighting off a rabble of unarmoured and lightly armed forces...Far more likely it was a command center and the barrack was elsewhere...Given your evidence.

[Icuownage]

Erm guys, you're taking this a little too far. The general gist of the argument I am feeling is that Archi thinks there is a plot hole in the story, granted there are. And Mather is saying that the combine are much weaker than they actually are.

[The_Mather1]

The combines never bomb anything. If you think about it there's actually very seldom any bombings unless actual wars take place. A reason for why the Combines don't bomb could be because they like to see their victims suffer before they die.

 

The reason zombies are hard to kill is because they can take immense damage to the torso, it's not that the combine don't wear armour, it just doesn't compare to it. You'll understand that part better after the first third of Ep1.

 

 

And the resistance isn't what's causing the problems for the combines during the uprising, Gordon, Barney, Alyx and Dog do, the rest just die like flies.

[paul191600]

The whole idea of the headcrabs is that it is a fear factor. Instead of just bombing an isolated area, they shell it with the pods. People are going to be more afraid of being mutilated by their former friends/coworkers/family then just being blown to bits. Sure, the idea has much potential to backfire, but the potential psychological effect on the rebels could be devistating. Also, launching a metallic pod full of animals costs less resources than building a missile, complete with a payload/delivery system.

 

The transhuman forces have been modified to the extent where they are basically drones. Various synth modifications / brainwashing has made them completely loyal to the overwatch voice. The metropolice are slightly brainwashed, usually loyalists. The citizens themselves are also addled by some chemicals placed in the water. They do have jobs, as you see some passing through checkpoints with a label (which I forget due to it being 4 years).

 

Why didn't earth get glassed in the first place? I'm not entirely sure. Maybe they want to see humanity destroy itself. Perhaps they see the overwatch forces as a good military force, as off-world assignments are mentioned multiple times. You also have to realize that the combine are aliens performing Orwellian experiments on humanity, so they aren't going to fully understand how we react to such situations. Perhaps it was tried and true in another situation.

[The_Mather1]

The combine are draining Earth's resources, most notably minerals from seawater.

And neither metrocops or civilians are tampered with, the metrocops just voluntair for police work in exchange for better living, etc. and the civilians are only affected by propaganda and disabillity to breed... and also the beatings they get.

 

And stalkers are drones, the rest just get any resistance left brainwashed out of them and their bodies modified to fit the suits/comunicators while retaining free will.

[archimage_a]

Erm guys, you're taking this a little too far. The general gist of the argument I am feeling is that Archi thinks there is a plot hole in the story, granted there are. And Mather is saying that the combine are much weaker than they actually are.

 

Its just something to do while making puzzles and preparing for Space.

And that is the biggest plothole. The Combine, magically, defeat Earth's Military in 7 hours, but are too weak to put down a rebellion when they are fully entrenched.

Ok, maybe Earth was massively backstabbed by Breen like people, but even so...

 

The combines never bomb anything. If you think about it there's actually very seldom any bombings unless actual wars take place. A reason for why the Combines don't bomb could be because they like to see their victims suffer before they die.

 

Yes...Why drop a bomb when you can send hundreds of soliders in with cameras....No Wait a second, they don't! They send in missiles with HeadCrabs...No Cameras...no seeing the suffering.

COME ON! If you wanted to see them suffer you would use a biogenic weapon with camera drones.

 

The reason zombies are hard to kill is because they can take immense damage to the torso, it's not that the combine don't wear armour, it just doesn't compare to it. You'll understand that part better after the first third of Ep1.

What?

Yes, the Venom Monsters, they are all about the immense damage to the torso...its the only thing I worry about when I try to kill them...Not the Venomous Headcrabs that give you 1 HP....That is far from my mind.[/sarcasm]

And the Combine wear armour...

And your point is irrelevant, because it ignores everything I said and is finished with a 'You will understand when you are older' line.

On the other hand the price of cheese is going up.

 

And the resistance isn't what's causing the problems for the combines during the uprising, Gordon, Barney, Alyx and Dog do, the rest just die like flies.

Which begs the question...Why not just kill everyone? They clearly don't have a point.

 

 

The whole idea of the headcrabs is that it is a fear factor.

Not especially. You fire a missile containing head crabs at an enemy and it is a case of 'Quick, everyone run to the missile to shoot the headcrabs.' It just creates a unifed responce, rather than a deep physcological impact...

 

Also, launching a metallic pod full of animals costs less resources than building a missile, complete with a payload/delivery system

Its a shell...You could fill it with anything...Scrap metal, human remains...anything sped up to a few thousand miles an hour is lethal...Far more so than crabs that can be killed as they slowly climb out of the missile.

And getting the 'animals' in would be more difficult than you make out...since you have to capture them, or build breeding plants and such...

Its like the old Azimov story where they find the last human that can do maths in his head, so they get him to train other people to do maths, and then, rather than build the complicated computers, they put humans in rockets and use them to control said rockets.

The fact is that Humans take up tonnes of resources from cradle to grave..So it is an entirely false economy.

The same thing is probably true of the headcrab missiles...It sounds good, but actually would be more expensive and less effective than traditional weapons.

 

 

The transhuman forces have been modified to the extent where they are basically drones

Making the Nova Prospket speech worthless, plothole again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anywho, my opinion is that the game was just not worth the hype people put into it...there are good bits, but it was just riddled with inept decisions which perpetuated the story...Like when Mossman was told to input the co-ordinance of Kliner's Lab...

[The_Mather1]

Headcrab pods do vast impact damage, so by the point where you see one that's going to land near you you ought to realize you're screwed. But when the pods have landed the headcrabs bury and gain the element of suprise.

And headcrabs fill the role of pests, a headcrab pod is a lesser version of the ship that first brought the plague. Except the pods are cheaper than ships and the headcrabs need less food than rats.

 

As for your Mossman worry, she was a triple agent all along.

 

And since you obviously was put off by my attempt to make the combines armour seem under-powered.

[hide='Do not open unless you've already played Ep1 or don't care much for suprises]Zombines[/hide]

[archimage_a]

Headcrab pods do vast impact damage, so by the point where you see one that's going to land near you you ought to realize you're screwed. But when the pods have landed the headcrabs bury and gain the element of suprise.

You obviously play the game very differently...and live very differently...Usually if I see a lit fuse I put it out, I don't run off and try to hide in a cupboard.

 

Their only real benefit is if you missile attacked somewhere that was deserted, thus meaning the headcrabs were not insta-slaughted...But that kinda defeats the object of missile attacking somewhere...Better to just bury some mines...

 

And headcrabs fill the role of pests, a headcrab pod is a lesser version of the ship that first brought the plague. Except the pods are cheaper than ships and the headcrabs need less food than rats.

 

Sigh, they also create a bigger problem when they are used...One that requires more effort and resources to clear up.

And are poorly suited to their role...Hence a plothole.

 

Kinda like blowing up a wall to clean it...easy to do, but creates a harder problem later.

 

As for your Mossman worry, she was a triple agent all along.

Huzzah, that makes the ineptitude displayed earlier alright...

'Why did you kill all of our own soliders?'

'Well, I am a triple agent, when I get to the other side, I am gonna kill all of their soliders too'

'Huzzah, that makes it alright then.'

 

And since you obviously was put off by my attempt to make the combines armour seem under-powered.

Its still a worthless statement.

Two out of the three Headcrab monsters are more dangerous than the Combine Soliders. And the Combine Soliders are more dangerous than civilians. Therefore two out of three Headcrab Monsters are more dangerous than Civilians.

IE:

Headcrab monsters>Combine Soliders>Civilians

Therefore

Headcrab monsters> Civilians.

 

Your argument to that is:

Combine Soliders<Headcrabs monsters.

[The_Mather1]

A minute and I'll test the varying types against eachother.

GMod FTW.

 

BTW: Which weapons do you want them to use?

[archimage_a]

Any really.

 

Make sure you test them in a varity of circumstances...Testing on a flat surface tends to lead to flawed results.

[Ieyfura]

Story logic in video games is srsbsns :P

[archimage_a]

Only when, like me, you write alternative history in your spare time. =P For most normal people it just gets in the way of shooting

[The_Mather1]

Any really.

 

Make sure you test them in a varity of circumstances...Testing on a flat surface tends to lead to flawed results.

Any? I'll test most guns from annabelle to zats then.

 

And of course I'll vary, though flat surfaces are most accurate since if they don't have the exact same area around them then one'll have the advantage.

 

Though I already know what the results will be: Gunship>Strider>Alyx>Grigori>Vortigaunt>Antlion guardian>Poison Zombie.

I won't test dog since he can't fight, his AI only contains fleeing since his combat actions are all pre-programmed.

[Ieyfura]

Only when, like me, you write alternative history in your spare time. =P For most normal people it just gets in the way of shooting

 

Ah, so you like to write fanfic I see. I never tried my hand at it. Usually I just make up my own little world and characters for some generic plot lol. I should try this fanfic thing. How different is it from self created storytelling?

[archimage_a]

Flat surfaces are usually least accurate...Take Headcrabs for instance, very is to shoot in a wide open space...kinda hard in confined area...where fear factor is higher.

[The_Mather1]

Headcrabs are special, else we could just test Rollermines which have to be blown to bits or shot out of the map.

[Icuownage]

Whaaaat, I'm confused here.

 

Combine conquered Earth in 8 hours cause they destroyed America and everyone else just surrendered. Headcrabs are NOT stronger than the combine human soldiers, the headcrab missiles are actually kinda silly, but if used enmasse would probably be quite devastating, and that is what happened at Ravenholm. The only reason the resistance is able to fight again the combine, is cause the combine army that probably conquered Earth has left already and all that is left are a few synths and a combine-human force.

 

Combine-human forces are probably stronger than the rebellion, but we don't know how the rebellion is actually going around the world, only in city 17, and I guess once city 17 fell, the main hub of the combine force on Earth, it was a huge hit that might have tilted the scale.

[Jehosaphat]

And here I thought that there weren't people who could have nutty videogame conversations in the same way that my brother and I do.

 

I was wrong. So horribly WRONG.

 

It's too bad I've never played any of the Half-Life games, elsewise I could actually participate.

[The_Mather1]

So far:

Barney>Combine Elite/Combine soldier>Rebel>Poison zombie

Weapon: Annnabelle (Grigori's rifle)

Area: A few houses and a flat.

 

EDIT: The rebel was still fighting the last headcrab from the zombie when it tripped on its corpse and died somehow.