why does he want an apology for something he knew would happen, and created by proxy? The answer - God is a vindictive bastard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would you rather we were never created, or created without free will?

You know that wood theory? Was the log floating in outer space, since it couldnt have been on Earth because it "WAS Earth". I think its sensible enough to cross that one out. I think i'll side with the big bang theory just because it sounds smart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know that Big Bang theory? Where did the Big Bang come from, because nothing was there. I think it's sensible enough to cross that one out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The wood was huge. Bigger than Earth and floating in space.

 

 

 

You're trying to assign a value to infinity, which isn't possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly, my point exactly. Lionheart was saying that an infinite number of moments has passed before now, and I think that isn't possible, because you would have to assign a value to this "number".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well then by your definition the number pi doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t exist because you can always add one more decimal to it, however it does have its place on the real number line (like all other irrational numbers do).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, by my definition we can never actually show, in actuality, all of the digits in pi. Just like there are an infinite number of points F between points A and B, doesn't mean that there is an actual infinite - it's just a theory, because these points don't take up time/space - if we tried to write them all down, it would be impossible, because there isn't enough time/space to hold it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're looking at time the completely wrong way. A: time doesn't need a spatial area to exist, so, no ammount of time can be "too large for space". B: You're trying to quantize time. Time isn't quantized in the sense that, say, apples are quantized. Time is measured by it's passage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ever hear of Einstine's General Theory of Relativity?

 

 

 

Time infact DOES need Space to exist. Time and Space are very closely related. That is why it is called Time-Space is Astro-Physics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And may I point out just one more tiny thing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WHY ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT INFINITY?!?! TIME IS FINITE. SPCACE IS FINITE. WHEN BIG BANGS AND BIG CRUNCHES HAPPEN TIME AND SPACE WILL CEASE TO EXIST BE RE-BORN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also... For the person who said Matter will always exist... You're wrong... When all the anti-matter in the Universe meets all the Matter, all that will be of the Universe will be a big void full of energy. This Energy will then compress itself into a singularity which will result in Time-Space being re-created in another Big Bang.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An infinite ammount of time may exist in an extremely finite ammount of space. This is what I was talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say time and space cease to exist when the big crunch happens. I disagree. The space is still there, it's just totally and completely void of anything. Time in our relational sense does cease to exist, I suppose you could say, but time in an overarching sense continues, unaffected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to stop debating the dark matter thing, mostly because I don't fully understand all of the theories involved. What I will say is that the whole idea of dark matter seems too easy, too convenient a solution for all of the anomolies we've observed.

Would you rather we were never created, or created without free will?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the point we were both trying to make. I don't believe we were "created". To say that we were "created" implies the existence of a "creator", which is something I have not yet been convinced of.

I see some of you are questioning God's ability to outlast time etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ever thought how God MADE EVERYTHING? Including TIME ITSELF?

Or perhaps that man made God rather than the other way around?

You say time and space cease to exist when the big crunch happens. I disagree. The space is still there, it's just totally and completely void of anything. Time in our relational sense does cease to exist, I suppose you could say, but time in an overarching sense continues, unaffected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

from what i understand space isnt void of anything at the time of big cruch and sequencal big bang. all the matter in the universe is there at the center, compressed so tightly its only 1 plank length wide (10^-33 meters).

Minus the singularity, of course. Thought that was a given. :)

Or perhaps that man made God rather than the other way around?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haha, we keep on begging the question...

Or perhaps that man made God rather than the other way around?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow...

 

 

 

Yeah, you're the first one to say/think this.

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a good thought!!!

 

 

 

Who woulda thunk it?

Minus the singularity, of course. Thought that was a given. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

huh? you said space was void of anything after big crunch until big bang, im saying its all there, just really compressed. its compressed around a point of singularity, into a very, very, very small sphere with a diameter of 10^-33 meters.

Or perhaps that man made God rather than the other way around?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but that reminded me a quote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882 - "God is dead."

 

 

 

God, 1900 - "Nietzsche is dead."

 

 

 

:P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you raise an interesting point. I'd agree that there are many gods made in the image of man. Take the Greek gods, for example. They were very promiscuous, irresponsible, and acted arbitrarily. With such gods, it's very easy to justify your own behaviour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, in the case of the Judeo-Christian God, why would man create a God that demands more of man than he can give? Why would man create a religion that condemns him, says he deserves eternal punishment, and can only live by giving up his own pride?

Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882 - "God is dead."

 

 

 

God, 1900 - "Nietzsche is dead."

 

 

 

:P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why I love you.

 

Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882 - "God is dead."

 

 

 

God, 1900 - "Nietzsche is dead."

 

 

 

:P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why I love you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, man. You ain't so bad yourself. :P

However, in the case of the Judeo-Christian God, why would man create a God that demands more of man than he can give? Why would man create a religion that condemns him, says he deserves eternal punishment, and can only live by giving up his own pride?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To control others.

 

However, in the case of the Judeo-Christian God, why would man create a God that demands more of man than he can give? Why would man create a religion that condemns him, says he deserves eternal punishment, and can only live by giving up his own pride?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To control others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who is controlling who?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No one is in control of anyone else.

 

 

 

Please explain more.

Who is controlling who?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No one is in control of anyone elese.

 

 

 

Please explain more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most, if not all, religions started out as a codified set of laws and instructions. Ways in which people were to live. To enforce rules and laws you need a carrot or a stick, or both. So - being fairly primitive times where Gods were widely believed in - the easiest way to get someone to comply with your laws was to say "Do this and Yaweh will welcome you into his kingdom. Don't do it and you'll be cast into a fiery lake of torment."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying that the control was neccessarily bad - often the rules and laws were the same sort of thing that societies still have on the books today. A fair amount of them were really just to protect society from disease etc. A lot of the Old Testament still contains a fair amount of them - Shellfish are unclean, Cast lepers out of your village, The ten commandments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it's not only ancient times in which this took place. You only have to look back at the Spanish Inquisition for a shining example of religion being used as a control mechanism - similarly the Salem witch-hunts. Right through to the present day where the Catholic church uses it's influence in Ireland to control government decisions on birth control and abortion. - And that only covers Christianity, we could go for hours on the subject of Islamic governments and Sharia law.

 

Or perhaps that man made God rather than the other way around?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow...

 

 

 

Yeah, you're the first one to say/think this.

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a good thought!!!

 

 

 

Who woulda thunk it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You seriously think he thought it was an original thought?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course it's not an original thought, but it was pertinant to the conversation. Don't be a dolt.

 

 

 

 

You're trying to assign a value to infinity, which isn't possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly, my point exactly. Lionheart was saying that an infinite number of moments has passed before now, and I think that isn't possible, because you would have to assign a value to this "number".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well then by your definition the number pi doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t exist because you can always add one more decimal to it, however it does have its place on the real number line (like all other irrational numbers do).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, by my definition we can never actually show, in actuality, all of the digits in pi. Just like there are an infinite number of points F between points A and B, doesn't mean that there is an actual infinite - it's just a theory, because these points don't take up time/space - if we tried to write them all down, it would be impossible, because there isn't enough time/space to hold it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're looking at time the completely wrong way. A: time doesn't need a spatial area to exist, so, no ammount of time can be "too large for space". B: You're trying to quantize time. Time isn't quantized in the sense that, say, apples are quantized. Time is measured by it's passage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ever hear of Einstine's General Theory of Relativity?

 

 

 

Time infact DOES need Space to exist. Time and Space are very closely related. That is why it is called Time-Space is Astro-Physics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And may I point out just one more tiny thing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WHY ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT INFINITY?!?! TIME IS FINITE. SPCACE IS FINITE. WHEN BIG BANGS AND BIG CRUNCHES HAPPEN TIME AND SPACE WILL CEASE TO EXIST BE RE-BORN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also... For the person who said Matter will always exist... You're wrong... When all the anti-matter in the Universe meets all the Matter, all that will be of the Universe will be a big void full of energy. This Energy will then compress itself into a singularity which will result in Time-Space being re-created in another Big Bang.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An infinite ammount of time may exist in an extremely finite ammount of space. This is what I was talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say time and space cease to exist when the big crunch happens. I disagree. The space is still there, it's just totally and completely void of anything. Time in our relational sense does cease to exist, I suppose you could say, but time in an overarching sense continues, unaffected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time-Space ITSELF is compressed into singularity through all the energy exposure due to the Annhilation of the Matter/Anti-Matter. There is no "space void". There is Nothing Period. Currently the "edge" of our Universe is expanding at the speed of light(Evidence has been found by the Hubble Space Telescope to prove this... This also puts the Big-Bang into the highly-probable-because-there-is-supporting-evidence category). When the Big-Crunch happens Time-Space itself will also compress into singularity as there is nothing to support/hold it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to stop debating the dark matter thing, mostly because I don't fully understand all of the theories involved. What I will say is that the whole idea of dark matter seems too easy, too convenient a solution for all of the anomolies we've observed.

 

 

 

"It is the most complex problems that have the most simplest answers"

 

 

 

-Winston Churchill

 

 

Or perhaps that man made God rather than the other way around?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow...

 

 

 

Yeah, you're the first one to say/think this.

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a good thought!!!

 

 

 

Who woulda thunk it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You seriously think he thought it was an original thought?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course it's not an original thought, but it was pertinant to the conversation. Don't be a dolt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It had been said before... He was just repeating something which was unnecessary.

 

 

 

No need for name calling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most, if not all, religions started out as a codified set of laws and instructions. Ways in which people were to live. To enforce rules and laws you need a carrot or a stick, or both. So - being fairly primitive times where Gods were widely believed in - the easiest way to get someone to comply with your laws was to say "Do this and Yaweh will welcome you into his kingdom. Don't do it and you'll be cast into a fiery lake of torment."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see where you're coming from here, and I have heard many sides of the story. But I doubt I know enough about the history/origin to discuss it with you. I was just wondering what you had to say about it.

 

 

 

Time-Space ITSELF is compressed into singularity through all the energy exposure due to the Annhilation of the Matter/Anti-Matter. There is no "space void". There is Nothing Period. Currently the "edge" of our Universe is expanding at the speed of light(Evidence has been found by the Hubble Space Telescope to prove this... This also puts the Big-Bang into the highly-probable-because-there-is-supporting-evidence category). When the Big-Crunch happens Time-Space itself will also compress into singularity as there is nothing to support/hold it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What on earth are you talking about? This is more pseudoscientific sounding then creationism/Intelligent Design. Try to rephrase yourself using simpler terms; you know science isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t all about using big fancy sounding words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also from what I can see in your posts, you donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have a very good understanding of current cosmology. ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹ÃâBig crunchesÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ go against current observation that the universe is accelerating, if we had enough mass to cause the collapse of the universe then the expansion would be decelerating rather then accelerating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"It is the most complex problems that have the most simplest answers"

 

 

 

-Winston Churchill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Winston Churchill has not seen quantum field theory Lagrangians.

 

 

 

 

Time-Space ITSELF is compressed into singularity through all the energy exposure due to the Annhilation of the Matter/Anti-Matter. There is no "space void". There is Nothing Period. Currently the "edge" of our Universe is expanding at the speed of light(Evidence has been found by the Hubble Space Telescope to prove this... This also puts the Big-Bang into the highly-probable-because-there-is-supporting-evidence category). When the Big-Crunch happens Time-Space itself will also compress into singularity as there is nothing to support/hold it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What on earth are you talking about? This is more pseudoscientific sounding then creationism/Intelligent Design. Try to rephrase yourself using simpler terms; you know science isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t all about using big fancy sounding words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Einstine has shown us through his General Theory of Relativity that Time and Space are so closely related that they canoot exist without eachother yes? Then when the Big Crunch happens Space itself will also be non-existent as all there will be will be a gigantic void of energy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also from what I can see in your posts, you donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have a very good understanding of current cosmology. ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹ÃâBig crunchesÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ go against current observation that the universe is accelerating, if we had enough mass to cause the collapse of the universe then the expansion would be decelerating rather then accelerating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While it is true that Modern studies show this I personally(Along with my Phys professor) believe that we are saying that too early. There are simply too many undefined variables and un-discovered factors when trying to say something for sure in that area of science. I believe that the reason the Universe is currently expanding at a increasing rate is because of how young it is in itself. Studies conducted through breakthroughs made by the Hubble have shown us that the Universe cannot be more than 15 billion solar years old... That is quite young. The reason it is still expanding at a accelerating rate is comparable to watching a rubber ball bounce up and down. We are still dropping towards the ground. When we collide we will start to decellerate towards the inevitable Big Crunch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that doesn't happen the Universe will return to its state of singularity before another Big Bang "when" all the Anti-Matter and Matter Annhilate together to re-create the energy. However there is of course the remot possibility that these two substances will never meet as they were blasted out in different directions in the initial Bang...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"It is the most complex problems that have the most simplest answers"

 

 

 

-Winston Churchill

 

 

 

Winston Churchill has not seen quantum field theory Lagrangians.

 

 

 

"Problems are alike in essential sense. There is both a hard way and a easy way to resolve them"

 

 

 

-A-Korean-Philosopher-Whos-Name-Escapes-My-Mind-ATM-

Time-space itself doesn't collapse, simply the matter within it. You can't have reigons in which there is no space. As far as we know it now it's physically impossible.

 

 

 

We haven't enough evidence yet for other dimensions, which would really be the only way to have non-spacial space..

Time-space itself doesn't collapse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does. As Hawkings explained Black-Holes... "They are a point of infinite gravity where time-space itself is collapsed into singularity".

Wait...

 

 

 

How does time collapse, it is just an abstraction.