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#1
MotherBrainII
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The combat triangle is a complete [bleep]ing joke. Even more so than before EoC, despite Jagex's patheitc attempts to balance it.

Magic can barely hit 1k with abilities except for a pithy ultimate that hits 3k if you're really lucky and is incredibly slow, range gets an overpowered stun and can compete a bit better, and melee?

Well, melee is, as always, strictly the best class for everything. There are no conditions on that statement. It's the best for glacors, a boss which was specifically designed for magic to be the best. I've heard of people using it effectively at ganodermic beasts, which have a 90% damage reduction on melee attacks or something stupid. They have the only level 90 weapons, which are so accurate that nothing in the game is even sliightly effective at defending against them even with the maximum accuracy penalty for wearing offclass armour/ And what has Jagex said? They want to make drygores EVEN MORE POWERFUL.

Why? To compete with the chaotic maul. The [bleep]ing chaotic maul. Which utterly decimates anything not flatly immune to melee. Which is so overpowered that I can go into a duel wearing maxed melee defense gear and using magic against an opponent with a chaotic maul and NO ARMOUR and still consistently lose in about 3 seconds. Which has single-handedly destroyed this game with how much it utterly craps on everything.

What were Jagex thinking? Who could possibly think that a weapon which hits constant near-unblockable 4000 hits faster than dart speed and has abilities that can do everything short of smash the opponent's computer into a cup of coffee for you to drink (and even then it's only time) is even remotely close to balanced? Why is weapon ability cooldown? After getting crashed at Saradomin GWD by a mauler whose damage output was something like six times as high as mine (and I have the best magic gear in the game), I feel like they should just bring this to its logical conclusion and give the maul a special ability which smashes the opponent half a mile in the air and instakills them, Skyrim giant style.

How long before melee is considered unequivocally the best class for Armadyl GWD?

#2
Alg
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Magic can barely hit 1k with abilities except for a pithy ultimate that hits 3k if you're really lucky and is incredibly slow, range gets an overpowered stun and can compete a bit better, and melee?

You'll get considerably better results without constant ability spam. Use momentum or fire off abilities right after auto attacks.

It's not really a case of magic being weak as magic not working the same way as the rest of the game (Which, admittedly, probably does make it weaker), without much explanation for how and why.

Can't really comment on the rest, though.

#3
MotherBrainII
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I know how to use magic... ability stacking and whatnot. Momentum is decent, but can't possibly compete with the maul hitting 4000+ with each ability. Ice barrage can do it very rarely, but only because it's currently subject to two separate bugs that make it dramatically more powerful than it should be and that I'm sure will get fixed at some point. (It doesn't get its damage reduced by wands, so you can spam full-power barrages twice as fast as you should be able to, and its stun triggers on all attacks made by it, not just autoattacks.)

The real issue here is that ability damage and cooldown is not being scaled to weapon speed as it ought to be. 2h melee and ranged weapons benefit from this; 2h magic weapons do not.

#4
Alg
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To be honest, I stopped trying to make sense of it a while ago. :razz:

#5
Leon S
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Staves don't boost ability damage. Your Magic level isn't taken into count with abilities. That's why Magic is at such a disadvantage right now. It'll get fixed soon. Some of the magic abilities are bugged, too. Metamorphosis boosts damage by 25%, not by 50%, which is what the description says. Wild Magic only hits once for up to 219% damage, instead of twice for 25 - 250% damage each.

If they would actually fix these issues, Magic would rival Melee just fine.

Berserk is also too powerful, in my opinion.

#6
Galco
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Your magic can't hit 1k?
Idk what your problem is then.
I hit pretty consistent 1-2k's with magic's abilities.
Ranged? Same thing.
Also, maul hitting constant 4k's with every ability.
You're over exaggerating.

Outside of beserk + assault stacking at bosses, I very rarely see maul hit 4k+.
And the thing is ===It doesn't do that damage in pvp===.
You have more armor than bosses, or at least I hope you do as a mage, than bosses do.

I agree melee is still clearly stronger than the other parts of the combat triangle.
I disagree with the notion that it's more unbalanced than before.

You couldn't use ranged outside of anti-rushing/rushing with dbow(Which was clearly inferior to claws), and armadyl.
And you couldn't use magic outside of PvM(non-boss)/Soul Wars because Gano can only carry you so far.

Meanwhile both are significantly more useful for bossing now, more especially ranged which imho is extremely under valued at bosses like Nex.
And PvP wise? If people would stop pretending "hybridding is dead" and actually use decent mage armor(Not that batmage crap) against a melee user, they'd realize hybridding is clearly not dead.
It is sooo much harder to damage someone in gano.
Which used to be what every mage wore to the wild.
Now? All you see is noobs in batwing.

What happened to gano?
Who knows.

Yeah, bring batwing while the melee guy is in full bandos with a cmaul.
You're in gear that's well below his, and then complain "melees over powered".

No, what's over powered is your crap gear.
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Your magic can't hit 1k?
Idk what your problem is then.
I hit pretty consistent 1-2k's with magic's abilities.
Ranged? Same thing.
Also, maul hitting constant 4k's with every ability.
You're over exaggerating.

Outside of beserk + assault stacking at bosses, I very rarely see maul hit 4k+.
And the thing is ===It doesn't do that damage in pvp===.
You have more armor than bosses, or at least I hope you do as a mage, than bosses do.

I agree melee is still clearly stronger than the other parts of the combat triangle.
I disagree with the notion that it's more unbalanced than before.

You couldn't use ranged outside of anti-rushing/rushing with dbow(Which was clearly inferior to claws), and armadyl.
And you couldn't use magic outside of PvM(non-boss)/Soul Wars because Gano can only carry you so far.

Meanwhile both are significantly more useful for bossing now, more especially ranged which imho is extremely under valued at bosses like Nex.
And PvP wise? If people would stop pretending "hybridding is dead" and actually use decent mage armor(Not that batmage crap) against a melee user, they'd realize hybridding is clearly not dead.
It is sooo much harder to damage someone in gano.
Which used to be what every mage wore to the wild.
Now? All you see is noobs in batwing.

What happened to gano?
Who knows.

Yeah, bring batwing while the melee guy is in full bandos with a cmaul.
You're in gear that's well below his, and then complain "melees over powered".

No, what's over powered is your crap gear.


Im sorry but i had to comment, but that was such an epic response to this rant ahahahaa! I laughed quite alot at the very last part, but back on topic.
I agree with galco here, you are over exaggerating unless your character has a 24/7 supply of steroids.
But at the same time, the combat triangle is still slightly unbalanced but it is doing alot better then it was before eoc came.
Just my opinion.

#8
Galco
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Im sorry but i had to comment, but that was such an epic response to this rant ahahahaa! I laughed quite alot at the very last part, but back on topic.
I agree with galco here, you are over exaggerating unless your character has a 24/7 supply of steroids.
But at the same time, the combat triangle is still slightly unbalanced but it is doing alot better then it was before eoc came.
Just my opinion.


The worst thing about all the batwing users in the wild, is that they complain about getting destroyed, when it costs more to kill them than you actually earn yourself from killing them. I'm happy with the exponential curve change, because that armor used to have ridiculous stats for its level and cost. It still has fairly high stats considering its cost but no where near what it used to be.
Same idea as me using sagaie's + royal Dhide in the wild when the demon's flash mob spawns.
It's not worth it to pk me like that.
I'll just waste your food, you'll kill me, and i'll be back 20 seconds later having only spent about 40k on my gear if that.

People eventually just give up trying to kill me, or I end up forcing them to teletab after 3 lives. Because idc what armor you're wearing, sagaies hit like champions.
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#9
MotherBrainII
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Why would you assume I'm talking about batwing ragging when I specifically mentioned more than once in the OP that I have the best magic gear in the game? I've never used anything worse than subjugation since EoC came out. Every time I've maged recently, it's been in virtus, which does crap all against either drygores or the chaotic maul and is only a bit better against godswords. (Apparently I was mistaken about the best gear: I don't have sea singer, but I shouldn't need it to stop most melee weapons and I'm told it's just as crap against drygores as everything else in the game.)

It's simply not possible to hit well over 1k consistently with magic abilities. I have overloads, torment, 99 magic, full virtus, and everything I can think of in the game that can conceivably increase your magic damage output, and while I can hit 1k, I can't do it consistently with anything other than autoattacks. Wrack almost never hits over 1k, Impact does fairly infrequently (due to a bug that causes its damage to trigger on a non-stun-immune opponent), and Asphyxiate does less than half of the time. Hitting 2k with a magic ability is basically unheard of without using an ultimate (unless you're fighting glacors or ice strykes with fire magic, obviously).

The reason why people use ragging gear is that level 80 weapons are trivial to obtain and the exponential curve update has rendered everything below level 80 useless against them (including gano). In other words, there's zero point using any armour worse than Nex gear and even that won't be effective enough to justify risking hundreds of millions for a marginal advantage over someone protecting a level 80 weapon and wearing bad armour, thus risking essentially nothing.

I guess PVM is a little better now than it was before, though IMO that's just because bosses are generally easier rather than magic being any better in comparison to the other two styles. (In the old system, Storm of Armadyl might have been decent if every boss in the game didn't have impenetrably high magic defence.) The way I'm interpreting the March BTS, it seems like they're fixing the issue with magic abilities not scaling up properly with either weapon speed or the damage boost from staves, so the only problem then will be that drygores will be so much better than everything else that Armadyl GWD will be the *only* place in the game where they aren't just obviously the best option.

#10
Galco
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Why would you assume I'm talking about batwing ragging when I specifically mentioned more than once in the OP that I have the best magic gear in the game? I've never used anything worse than subjugation since EoC came out. Every time I've maged recently, it's been in virtus, which does crap all against either drygores or the chaotic maul and is only a bit better against godswords. (Apparently I was mistaken about the best gear: I don't have sea singer, but I shouldn't need it to stop most melee weapons and I'm told it's just as crap against drygores as everything else in the game.)

It's simply not possible to hit well over 1k consistently with magic abilities. I have overloads, torment, 99 magic, full virtus, and everything I can think of in the game that can conceivably increase your magic damage output, and while I can hit 1k, I can't do it consistently with anything other than autoattacks. Wrack almost never hits over 1k, Impact does fairly infrequently (due to a bug that causes its damage to trigger on a non-stun-immune opponent), and Asphyxiate does less than half of the time. Hitting 2k with a magic ability is basically unheard of without using an ultimate (unless you're fighting glacors or ice strykes with fire magic, obviously).

The reason why people use ragging gear is that level 80 weapons are trivial to obtain and the exponential curve update has rendered everything below level 80 useless against them (including gano). In other words, there's zero point using any armour worse than Nex gear and even that won't be effective enough to justify risking hundreds of millions for a marginal advantage over someone protecting a level 80 weapon and wearing bad armour, thus risking essentially nothing.

I guess PVM is a little better now than it was before, though IMO that's just because bosses are generally easier rather than magic being any better in comparison to the other two styles. (In the old system, Storm of Armadyl might have been decent if every boss in the game didn't have impenetrably high magic defence.) The way I'm interpreting the March BTS, it seems like they're fixing the issue with magic abilities not scaling up properly with either weapon speed or the damage boost from staves, so the only problem then will be that drygores will be so much better than everything else that Armadyl GWD will be the *only* place in the game where they aren't just obviously the best option.


Because quite frankly, as much as your post overexaggerated the damage of maul among other things, I highly doubted you've ever fought in virtus or even gano.
And I still doubt it.
The last few times I went to the wild using magic, in batwing no less. I was more than capable of lasting far longer than 3 seconds. And never got hit for 4k against a cmauler.
Much less 3k.
Mean while, me with a polypore staff and dirt for armor, I was able to hit for 1.3k nearly every ability.

The Sith Lord ability, which hit 2k's, actually managing to kill someone.


I'm not that big on PvP but I do it often enough to know what you're exclaiming here seems like bs.
And don't even get me started on how badly I destroy a mage with my RCB.
Something that was virtually non-existent pre-eoc.


And btw.
Mentioning drygores and how incredibly powerful they are, as a reason why changing how dual wielding works is a bad idea, is a failure for an argument.
There's no level 90 gear(yet) equivalent for the other classes for us to have a solid damage comparison with the drygores.
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#11
MotherBrainII
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Mentioning drygores and how incredibly powerful they are, as a reason why changing how dual wielding works is a bad idea, is a failure for an argument.


Lucky I wasn't arguing that, then, wasn't it? It would be nice if the conclusions you're trying to refute were ones I've actually put forward, though my experience with these forums suggests that's generally too much to hope for.

I don't know whether the maulers I've faced have had berserk on or something but I find myself getting hit for 4000s fairly frequently and it's not at all rare for a mauler to crash me at a boss by unloading a constant barrage of 4k+ hits on a boss about midway through. And the overall point is that a mauler can hit incredibly hard and fast -- I shouldn't be able to wield a weapon like that and swing at full power by waving it around like a windscreen wiper on a very rainy day. I mostly do safe PVP, so the people I'm facing are probably using better equipment. I'm pretty confident you're exaggerating about hitting constant 1.3ks, if only because hitting that high with many abilities is flat-out impossible. I'm sure it can be done with Asphyxiate (one of the few magic abilities worth using) and MAYBE Impact, but Wrack, which is what you'll presumably be using at least half the time? No, not unless things have dramatrically changed in the last couple of weeks. You can't be competitive with magic in PVM at any multicombat boss, even if the bosses are so easy that using it is now viable in a vacuum.

And yes, SOA was overpowered in PVP. I thought it was a reasonable balance to the fact that you had to risk a LOT to use it effectively and the entire rest of the magic skill was a complete joke in both PVP and PVM (ancients were decent but the game had long surpassed them), but I suppose an argument can be made either way.

#12
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Mentioning drygores and how incredibly powerful they are, as a reason why changing how dual wielding works is a bad idea, is a failure for an argument.


Lucky I wasn't arguing that, then, wasn't it? It would be nice if the conclusions you're trying to refute were ones I've actually put forward, though my experience with these forums suggests that's generally too much to hope for.

I don't know whether the maulers I've faced have had berserk on or something but I find myself getting hit for 4000s fairly frequently and it's not at all rare for a mauler to crash me at a boss by unloading a constant barrage of 4k+ hits on a boss about midway through. And the overall point is that a mauler can hit incredibly hard and fast -- I shouldn't be able to wield a weapon like that and swing at full power by waving it around like a windscreen wiper on a very rainy day. I mostly do safe PVP, so the people I'm facing are probably using better equipment. I'm pretty confident you're exaggerating about hitting constant 1.3ks, if only because hitting that high with many abilities is flat-out impossible. I'm sure it can be done with Asphyxiate (one of the few magic abilities worth using) and MAYBE Impact, but Wrack, which is what you'll presumably be using at least half the time? No, not unless things have dramatrically changed in the last couple of weeks. You can't be competitive with magic in PVM at any multicombat boss, even if the bosses are so easy that using it is now viable in a vacuum.

And yes, SOA was overpowered in PVP. I thought it was a reasonable balance to the fact that you had to risk a LOT to use it effectively and the entire rest of the magic skill was a complete joke in both PVP and PVM (ancients were decent but the game had long surpassed them), but I suppose an argument can be made either way.


"They have the only level 90 weapons, which are so accurate that nothing in the game is even sliightly effective at defending against them even with the maximum accuracy penalty for wearing offclass armour/ And what has Jagex said? They want to make drygores EVEN MORE POWERFUL.

Why? To compete with the chaotic maul. The [bleep]ing chaotic maul. Which utterly decimates anything not flatly immune to melee. Which is so overpowered that I can go into a duel wearing maxed melee defense gear and using magic against an opponent with a chaotic maul and NO ARMOUR and still consistently lose in about 3 seconds. Which has single-handedly destroyed this game with how much it utterly craps on everything."

Perhaps I misinterpreted this. But to me it would seem you're against the duel wield changes that are supposed to bring duel wielding up to speed with 2handed.

Of which they haven't mentioned if in bringing up duel wielding if they'd weaken 2handed some what. Which I imagine is a strong possibility.

As for things possibly changing in the past couple of weeks.
Idk, kinda doubt it.
But I hit pretty hard with magic, and I hit pretty hard consistently.

As far as PvM, I agree that in a lot of situations a mauler will be able to crash a mage at, lets say Sara.
However that mauler can't stay there infinitely like a mage can.
Using Demonhorn neck and bonecrusher(if I remember right) while using momentum + ice barrage + soul split.
Essentially you just recover your health and your prayer points infinitely off the minions while still dealing damage to the boss.

A meleer can't do that.
So straight up damage, i'd give it to melee in that situation, but staying power easily goes to magic.

Lets not forget that magic is still viable at Nex and KK for those who can't afford drygores and don't want to get chaotics.


As for the constant 4k's. That has to be with berserk. There's no other way for that to happen. A berserk is still fairly unbalance in PVP. BUT, it's a good chance to throw Asphyxiate(DARTH VADER~!!!!) on them for the extra damage they take. While also slowing them from getting to assault if they don't have anticipation up.
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#13
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Try wild magic with poly/gano a few times, you'll hit around 4-5k atleast once, depending on your magic level ofcourse.





Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!


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Try wild magic with poly/gano a few times, you'll hit around 4-5k atleast once, depending on your magic level ofcourse.

That's due to the recent change to ability damage with magic.

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Try wild magic with poly/gano a few times, you'll hit around 4-5k atleast once, depending on your magic level ofcourse.

That's due to the recent change to ability damage with magic.


I know that





Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!


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Ammako
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Was mostly adding to what was said, so that they would know why it's stronger now.

#17
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Ehh what? First of all Mage is the best style between all it is the one wrecking all cb styles not melee after the update well gf all styles plus I got my kiln cape from 100% Mage I tried melee and failed not to mention ranged Mage is the overpowered style in runescape no discussing

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Ehh what? First of all Mage is the best style between all it is the one wrecking all cb styles not melee after the update well gf all styles plus I got my kiln cape from 100% Mage I tried melee and failed not to mention ranged Mage is the overpowered style in runescape no discussing


Try to consider that this post is 3 months old. Magic, at the time, might not have been as strong as it is now.

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wtf. mage wrecks all in pk.
i have 60 magic and i can farm about 140k exp an hour at hai monks. meele is way underpowered. rangers are just as good as mages.
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Ehh what? First of all Mage is the best style between all it is the one wrecking all cb styles not melee after the update well gf all styles plus I got my kiln cape from 100% Mage I tried melee and failed not to mention ranged Mage is the overpowered style in runescape no discussing


Try to consider that this post is 3 4 months old. Magic, at the time, might not have been as strong as it is now.


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