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Arceus

5th October 2015 - Virtual Levelling | Ninja Update

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The 250k mark is with the regular runecrafting, using altars essence and etc. which is NOT AFK.

Which is still around 12x faster so 120 is comparable to the old 99s, in 10 years will it go beyond 200m and will skills to go something much beyond 120? probably, it'll be interesting to see where the games goes.


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TBH I simply dont get the respect part of the whole argument. Just because at some point people were measuring e-peens by having a hard to get 99 doesn't mean the game should be locked with hours of grinding to get the best out of a skill ...

 

Runescape is just moving towards the rest of the MMOs where the game actually starts after you max out (well at least in some skills).

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TBH I simply dont get the respect part of the whole argument. Just because at some point people were measuring e-peens by having a hard to get 99 doesn't mean the game should be locked with hours of grinding to get the best out of a skill ...

 

Runescape is just moving towards the rest of the MMOs where the game actually starts after you max out (well at least in some skills).

 

It's not so much the respect argument, and it's definitely not about "e-peens", I maxed just to max basically to get everything, I never took pleasure in skilling.

 

It's more about a sense of accomplishment I think, if something is difficult to accomplish it's more-rare so it's therefore more desirable.

 

I'd say now the game it's definitely easier and more accessible which is good for Jagex for the most part, of course the game is evolving and as for games starting after you max out, I disagree in some ways.

RuneScape is different because of its skill systems, other games like WoW, Diablo 3, Destiny etc are all combat driven they don't generally have skill systems, its whole game ethos revolves around loot mechanics and upgrading your gear.

 

The combat systems in those games are much more diverse than RuneScape (probably not Destiny) but I think RuneScapes questing and skill system is unique and also it's browser based and f2p which is wonderful, the game starting after you max with RuneScape I think it's a little of a bizarre notion.

If it was a strictly PvM game maybe, RS revolves around XP though, not loot and "soulbound" items like most others, RS also is one with a fairly good economy which others don't tend to have.


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TBH I simply dont get the respect part of the whole argument. Just because at some point people were measuring e-peens by having a hard to get 99 doesn't mean the game should be locked with hours of grinding to get the best out of a skill ...

 

Runescape is just moving towards the rest of the MMOs where the game actually starts after you max out (well at least in some skills).

 

I never really bought in to the whole 'respect' for high stats thing.

 

It's the nature of pretty much any game that the end game is what its all about and that as a game matures ways of reaching the end-game for each individual facet gets easier because otherwise the game would just get longer and longer in terms of reaching the end game and you'd lose all interest for new players who can never hope to get there.

 

I mean jeeze could you imagine how butt-hurt I'd be if I cared about the respect when I did cooking before cook-x and before skillcapes? I went from having an epically rare stat that barely anyone trained very high to something everyone and their mum gets cause its super easy to buy and get a cape for.

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I wouldn't call several thousand hours of pure busywork 'accessible' in any sense of the word. The game is nowhere near as accessible as others of its kind, and it's been showing its age for the better part of half a decade. The 'new player experience' is to play a game from 2004 because the game from 2015 is locked behind time-limited plot events and enough grinding to get to the endgame in several other MMOs, and by the time you get there they've moved the finish line again.

 

I dunno, it's a great environment for existing prestige hunters (for the moment: it all strikes me as crazy unsustainable thanks to power creep), but for any newbies it's like showing up to a race 5 hours later than everyone else. And if you're even the least bit casual there's literally no reason to even consider the game because that race is the official endgame, and if you can't find an MMO more suited to your interests in 2015, you probably didn't even try.

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I wouldn't call several thousand hours of pure busywork 'accessible' in any sense of the word. The game is nowhere near as accessible as others of its kind, and it's been showing its age for the better part of half a decade. The 'new player experience' is to play a game from 2004 because the game from 2015 is locked behind time-limited plot events and enough grinding to get to the endgame in several other MMOs, and by the time you get there they've moved the finish line again.

 

I dunno, it's a great environment for existing prestige hunters (for the moment: it all strikes me as crazy unsustainable thanks to power creep), but for any newbies it's like showing up to a race 5 hours later than everyone else. And if you're even the least bit casual there's literally no reason to even consider the game because that race is the official endgame, and if you can't find an MMO more suited to your interests in 2015, you probably didn't even try.

 

However, the duration of staying in that older content is much smaller nowadays. One can get in a couple of months to near maxed, as opposed to back in day where it took years.


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Or you know, you could play the game because you enjoy it?

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Or you know, you could play the game because you enjoy it?

 

BLASPHEMY!! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST SOMETHING SO ACCURATE!!!!

 

 

/sarcasm 


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However, the duration of staying in that older content is much smaller nowadays. One can get in a couple of months to near maxed, as opposed to back in day where it took years.

Which is sort of the point. I wouldn't expect new players to know about the metagame, and the game honestly doesn't have much going for it outside of the accomplishment hunt... Anyone who joins the community is going to end up reading about how nothing they do will matter until the 120-200m range, so there's basically no sense of accomplishment until VERY far in your playing career. And even those will get less noteworthy as time goes on, kind of how maxing is less an achievement and more an obligation.

 

I mean, that kind of thing is fine, I just wish we'd stop pretending the race has appeal for anyone that's not already deep into the game. Like, they hyped the hell out of the 99/120/200m race when Divination came out, but the skill itself is not particularly engaging or rewarding even by Runescape's standards.

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TBH I simply dont get the respect part of the whole argument. Just because at some point people were measuring e-peens by having a hard to get 99 doesn't mean the game should be locked with hours of grinding to get the best out of a skill ...

 

Runescape is just moving towards the rest of the MMOs where the game actually starts after you max out (well at least in some skills).

 

I never really bought in to the whole 'respect' for high stats thing.

 

It's the nature of pretty much any game that the end game is what its all about and that as a game matures ways of reaching the end-game for each individual facet gets easier because otherwise the game would just get longer and longer in terms of reaching the end game and you'd lose all interest for new players who can never hope to get there.

 

I mean jeeze could you imagine how butt-hurt I'd be if I cared about the respect when I did cooking before cook-x and before skillcapes? I went from having an epically rare stat that barely anyone trained very high to something everyone and their mum gets cause its super easy to buy and get a cape for.

 

 

I had 99 cook pre cook-x too, and it wasn't hard back then either, the reality was back before cook-x people just fished the food a large number of people "traded raw for cooked" because they didn't want to burn sharks or didn't want to waste time cooking as they wanted to go and pvm or pk, cooking was never a rare skill because even by 2004 standards it was 200k xp per hour.

 

Or you know, you could play the game because you enjoy it?

 

Agree on that point, but my advice to anybody with RuneScape is if you want to max and you don't enjoy skilling, quit for 5 years and then come back, it's 10 times easier the methods available now are just so easy RuneSpan for instance, Slayer now under EoC is ridiculous, all the Prifdinnas content, I'm sure Invention this year will boost it further.

 

 

 

However, the duration of staying in that older content is much smaller nowadays. One can get in a couple of months to near maxed, as opposed to back in day where it took years.

Which is sort of the point. I wouldn't expect new players to know about the metagame, and the game honestly doesn't have much going for it outside of the accomplishment hunt... Anyone who joins the community is going to end up reading about how nothing they do will matter until the 120-200m range, so there's basically no sense of accomplishment until VERY far in your playing career. And even those will get less noteworthy as time goes on, kind of how maxing is less an achievement and more an obligation.

 

I mean, that kind of thing is fine, I just wish we'd stop pretending the race has appeal for anyone that's not already deep into the game. Like, they hyped the hell out of the 99/120/200m race when Divination came out, but the skill itself is not particularly engaging or rewarding even by Runescape's standards.

 

 

Agreed, but the Metagame you learn from other players as you do any other game. I agree in some regards with Maxing but there's no real perk of having maxed, besides a completionists cape for PvM.

 

There's no gear that requires 99 attack and 99 cooking is there? so maxing combat is necessary but are the other skils? not really, most skills once you max you don't go back to them, and a lot of content in rs is pointless, let's be honest they produce content to "fill-gaps", but is the content relevant to the game? not really.

 

Tell me what use are Chompy Birds if it wasn't for trimmed comp cape? that content was long dead, same with challenge scrolls, even PvM in rs everyone does the same because it's most efficient.

 

Tell me this if it wasn't for a list saying "the cape requires this" would you do it, the answer is an empathic no.

 

I feel like Jagex missed "individualism" when it comes to PvM look at other MMOs they have "Builds" where you go down a build route and you suddenly focus on one area to be good at, RS it's ok put this in your action bar smash 1-9 keys on your keyboard rinse and repeat.

 

Wouldn't it have been lovely to build yourself to absorb damage for a team and help others, or to go raw DPS and you could change those builds if you desired, but actually be an individual and a core component in your team instead of "man you need to put this in your bar and use exactly as I have", everybody is the same, everybody does the same content, everybody cuts the same logs... see my point? nobody is an individual in rs.

 

Because of the flawed combat mechanics in RS nobody team pvms anymore, you can afk at godwars all day, its actually quite sad to see that, you don't require a team, cooperating anymore and if you could have some kind of diverse system where you compliment each other it would be great. But this is the design of the game now and they've missed the boat so to speak, I used to love team bosses and there's none of that now, nobody tanking a boss or nobody focusing on one style instead everybody does the same so, we don't need a team essentially.

 

The social aspect is gone in that regard, which used to be a huge perk of PvM.

 

I agree with your point here ALG:

 

 

I mean, that kind of thing is fine, I just wish we'd stop pretending the race has appeal for anyone that's not already deep into the game. Like, they hyped the hell out of the 99/120/200m race when Divination came out, but the skill itself is not particularly engaging or rewarding even by Runescape's standards.

 

This is the issue with me for RuneScape content, other games traditionally have a 3 month release window or so, where all content adds something to the game that's relevant.

With RuneScape you get content that adds nothing, a minigame that's going to be dead in 2 weeks. Look at Trouble Brewing (I forget the name it's been years) what does Trouble brewing do to RuneScape that's relevant? it's pointless, people go there to unlock a song nothing more.

 

You have minigames that give nothing to the game, skilling content that they add such as useless potions with no use and nobody ever makes, fish that nobody will ever use, the list is endless.

 

Divination like you said, to me that's RuneSpan with different animations, I'm 1 Divination and haven't played in 4 years now because I just look at it and I think what is it adding to the game? the answer is nothing.

 

They produce a skill with no relevance to the game, Invention sounds ok, but I fear it'll really hit the economy hard with some of their proposals. the 50/50 item duper, the breaking things down at alch value, it's seriously going to cause problems.

 

The issue for me with RuneScape now is Progression, when I played the xp was slower tedious, so you'd get to 40 attack in 2001 and you'd think "Great I can use Rune now" or you'd go in 2004 tiers of "Green d'hide body, blue, red, yes 70 range, I can use black now" and youd' see people back then with 70 range and it'd be somewhat of a milestone.

 

The best ranging armour, highly relevant within the game, only the best crafters then (even at 70) were hard to find, even making a glory amulet out of a dragonstone you would have to hunt for.

 

XP measures everything within RuneScape, but wouldn't it be fun to have content where it was skill based?

 

It was fueled by player made items, now it's monster dropped items, the player no longer matters. In 2015 players are nothing more than XP grinding machines and Monster farmers. everything else is irrelevant.

 

Do people mine ore to smith for themselves anymore? or do they just go out and mine for xp and dump the ore on the floor, or bank it then sell it at whatever price they can get? the whole culture of the game has shifted and that's sadly the way it has gone. I think the whole ethos of the game has changed where gratification comes from a cape now, and it's 120 not 99 anymore, but those little milestones along the way that used to be a pretty big deal are gone, these little cookie crumbs that used to reward and mean something don't get people excited.

 

I think skilling should be as important as PVM personally, I think people with 120 smithing, the rebalance next year should be relevant which is a good sign if they execute it right, even if like Artisans Smithing you have to hit the swords in the right area to make the perfect one, and if not you 10M GP materials are gone basically rewards skilled players, and also takes GP out of the game if you screw it up (where you have 5 seconds to make the right choice or its gone), it should reward skilled players and people that bother to learn to be a good blacksmith.

 

Have the furnace at the right temperature, cool it in the right time, hit the piece of weapon in the right area, the same goes for high level potions, mixing at the right times and so on.

Reward good players within a skill for doing something rather than just promoting AFK culture.

 

XP measures everything within RuneScape, but wouldn't it be fun to have content where it was skill based? finding the right route to Fish the perfect Fish, instead of the spot is always here, we're just reaching a point in the game where players don't care about what they fish, players don't care what they mine as long as the XP is the best and they have to catch it correctly or it breaks the line and it's actually will heal a ridiculous amount of health.

 

But then look at the community and the economy what is this actually doing for the game when people just mine so much gold ore that it imbalances the economy, or fishes so much whatever you fish at Prifdinnas that is untradeable?

 

That's my two cents with RuneScape anyway, I wish the game would reward players for little milestones and be more than an XP grind and a PVM farm because the little steps along the way used to mean so much more.

 

The game used to have so much more than just "XP rates" and now its Max or nothing, when I was last playing in 2012 and I saw "This player have just reached 99 in all skills" I thought "great another one" they are like london buses now, there's nothing desireable anymore.

 

Even if it was cosmetic, I proposed on the HLF a few years ago getting a certain milestone should unlock a haircut or some appearences, but for skillers these days its all about a 120 cape at the end, and I personally think its sad to see.

 

You can see just how the game is about being an XP-Slave now and PVM farming all day for gp by 2016 BTS, its all about boss hunting.

 

Long post but I just think the game should be more about XP, it's annoyed me that this is where the game is, people need xp points for gratification now and virtual rankings, the game used to be about so much more. Now Jagex can just add a new resource spot with 40k xp faster an hour faster and people are happy, but it adds NOTHING TO THE GAME.

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Even if most players are stuck on some maxing train of thought, and Jagex updates skills left and right to be faster, I don't really care. It doesn't personally affect me. I still play this game because I enjoy quests and killing Tormented Demons (also I want 200m summoning and virtual 120 range/magic/defense/constitution, but that's another story).

 

Sadly, the quests have been subpar in various respects, either terrible plot, too short/easy, reused assets... So I've stopped doing them pretty much. Still haven't done Fate of the Gods or the final Elf quests (Plague's End and The Light Within) as a result. On a whim, I did Lord of the Vampyrium and found it was disappointing, very much so, compared to Branches of Darkmeyer, further cementing my opinion (biased or not) of the drop in quest quality.

 

But Tormented Demons have remained pretty neat. And killing Tormented Demons greatly surpasses most solo PvM (GWD, QBD, etc) and is arguably tied with Nex for gp/hr (of course, it's below Araxxor, but Araxxor is boring). Unlike Nex and Araxxor, however, it's decent range/magic/defense/constitution xp (nearly 120 defense and constitution currently, with magic/range at 112 and 114, respectively). And great charms (150+ blues and 100+ crimsons an hour), which are worthwhile on my other goal.

 

In a somewhat unrelated train of thought, there's people around places that claim they get 160 KPH with subpar gear, 200 KPH with subpar gear, and so on, at Tormented Demons... I do believe they're inflating their numbers a lot. It's interesting that I've seen a handful of people claim such efficient kills, yet no proof is ever provided. I have an video of me getting 140-something kills in an hour months and months ago, and now I can average around 150 minimum. It's probably because even on a max population world you're limited by the spawn rate, so you can't obtain that KPH at any one spot (on a 1K population world, pretty much the highest you could ever get is just under 3 kills per minute, because you'll idle for upwards of 5 seconds between spawns still). Furthermore, sub-20 second kills being average is highly improbable, considering Wild Magic is crucial to quick kills, and that has a 20 second cooldown. They must get a little over 3 kills, perhaps up 4 kills, in one minute once a trip and then extrapolate that for their whole hour. 180 KPH is pretty much the max, mostly because of Wild Magic, but also because of their slow spawn rate, and that's with max efficiency and gear (nothing less than tier 90s, and Ascension + Seismics at that ['cause Wild Magic second hit splashes nearly every time with a high level staff, making Noxious and even Chaotic staff greatly inferior to their counterparts]) and a helping of luck.


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One of the biggest flaws is that all the best stuff in the game never comes from skills.


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One of the biggest flaws is that all the best stuff in the game never comes from skills.

That's because there's no failure or risk when skilling. The entire game would have to be remade from the ground up to rectify issues like this.

 

If you objectively look at the game's history (in regards to gameplay and cohesion), this problem has always been present (dragon armor, then Barrows, then GWD... Dragon weapons, when rewarded from a quest, mixed this up a bit, but then you get slayer and the whip, Barrows and their respective weapons, and then the GWD... on and on, from the beginning until now).

 

RuneScape's initial development process was a patchwork quilt of "ooh, this would be a cool new piece of content!" In fact, that's how the development process still goes! In turn, rarely does anyone go back to update the other bits of the quilt. So instead, you get band-aid after band-aid, mosty in the form of new content, resulting in massive amounts of neglected and otherwise imbalanced gameplay.

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One of the biggest flaws is that all the best stuff in the game never comes from skills.

That's because there's no failure or risk when skilling. The entire game would have to be remade from the ground up to rectify issues like this.

It almost seems like they've been going out of their way to widen that gap though. Nobody expects skilling to be on par with combat, but I don't think anyone would mind them releasing a noncombat thing that isn't just objectively awful outright, when even the worst combat stuff is merely mediocre.

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the whole dynamic about accessibility versus demand does deserve closer examination though


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One of the biggest flaws is that all the best stuff in the game never comes from skills.

That's because there's no failure or risk when skilling. The entire game would have to be remade from the ground up to rectify issues like this.
It almost seems like they've been going out of their way to widen that gap though. Nobody expects skilling to be on par with combat, but I don't think anyone would mind them releasing a noncombat thing that isn't just objectively awful outright, when even the worst combat stuff is merely mediocre.

It was a decision made early on and a bad one at that. Maybe there is no risk for skilling gear, but they should've made something on par. Then you had a slow and steady option. Only thing ever to come close was Ports, but it didn't take Chris L long to completely relegate it to crap with new boss gear.

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It was a decision made early on and a bad one at that. Maybe there is no risk for skilling gear, but they should've made something on par. Then you had a slow and steady option. Only thing ever to come close was Ports, but it didn't take Chris L long to completely relegate it to crap with new boss gear.

I would actually be alright with skilling being universally worse than combat if they made it less blatantly one-sided. It's like, combat gets new monsters with interesting mechanics and usable rewards, noncombat gets... the aquarium, which probably couldn't be any shittier if it was an actual toilet (and it just might be since you're not cleaning it at all). I mean, there was a point where skilling could have died with dignity and we've gone so far past it that they might as well rename it The Simpsons.

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Agreed. Sadly they went combat heavy and that might have been okay if not for the clunky tick system. The whole thing is depressing.

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It was a decision made early on and a bad one at that. Maybe there is no risk for skilling gear, but they should've made something on par. Then you had a slow and steady option. Only thing ever to come close was Ports, but it didn't take Chris L long to completely relegate it to crap with new boss gear.

I would actually be alright with skilling being universally worse than combat if they made it less blatantly one-sided. It's like, combat gets new monsters with interesting mechanics and usable rewards, noncombat gets... the aquarium, which probably couldn't be any shittier if it was an actual toilet (and it just might be since you're not cleaning it at all). I mean, there was a point where skilling could have died with dignity and we've gone so far past it that they might as well rename it The Simpsons.

 

It's what bothers me about RuneScape now, the skilling system is experience based it has zero skill to it.

As the game has gone on even the "gathering" aspect is dead, you just click on a spot and you get it all done for you which hugely devalues every skill.

Slayer was once a challenge, now it's a joke.

 

High level skills should be difficult, as I said on the last page having players heat the furnace correctly, hit the weapons and armour in right place based on how the game generates that specific piece of gear.

 

They should take judgment to do so, if there is so much money on PvM for doing things correctly and paying attention then making some ridiculous level 99 piece of armour having extracted the ore over a period of hours to make one set, and then having to smith said piece correctly without screwing it up and losing your materials should take skill.

 

However RS is you have the level therefore its not a challenge, use bar with anvil > smith piece > alch it because its junk.

 

Looking back at the middleages Smithing was an artform it took years to master, the reason I loved Dungeoneering in this game was because it wasn't AFK you had to judge what was coming next. it was contextual, and took some skill to do efficiently in 2011 before all the key belts etc, and skills should have those mechanics.

 

I'd be all for Jagex revisiting skills and adding 80+ to have good GP rewards for doing it properly, as when you had DG you had the best players in your team, if you want a good piece of armour making you pick someone that you know is a good blacksmith who is going to do a good job.

 

But the game will always be inflate the xp rates, and zombie mode 200Ms, RuneScape has the best skill system I've seen in an MMO, it's just got to the stage where it just doesn't matter because it's just PvM and the Skills are completely neglected.

 

To me 120 doesn't matter, because it's far too easy I don't think I see a cape anymore and think wow that means something, I used to respect good PvMers such as Woox and good DGers but it took something more than clicking on a resource spot and going to watch the latest episode of Walking Dead.

 

The game has hit a point now where its a bit uninspired, and they're now targeting things like OSRS and now looking at revamping RSC by the looks of things because they need to deviate from a formula thats losing players interests because outside of the xp grind its just not interesting.

 

Quests and PvM are the only dynamic content left.


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I disagree that RuneScape's skilling system, in practice, was ever good.

 

Each skill is essentially standalone. A better woodcutting level only helps you when woodcutting. A better firemaking level only helps you when firemaking. Same for smithing and all the others. Leveling these skills simply unlocks further content to train these skills. Any exceptions are simply band-aids to the original design.

 

All skills are overwhelmingly solo activities. Sometimes having more players training can impact the others, more so back in the day than now. The best iron mining spots, which provided the best mining experience of course, could only hold one player. The best hunter spots would highly competitive (chinchompas, salamanders). Then you have totally instanced skills, like farming and all the artisan skills. Dungeoneering was the exception, but now sinkholes, buffed solo experience, and daily challenges make that moot. Essentially, RuneScape was a solo RPG with multiplayer chatting unless you went into the wilderness...

 

Many were useless (and some still are). Firemaking is pointless. The artisan skills are mostly useless because infinitely better gear is obtainable from PvM. Divination is essentially useless because Invention was delayed for so long (and it's sad that Invention is required to make the skill useful; why bother making it in the first place?). Gathering skills are obsolete because killing your typical slayer monster, let alone the big meany spiders, ghosts, enlightened rocks, and incompetent pet owners followed by giant worms-snake-dragon-spirits are better means of obtaining most resources than mining/woodcutting/harvesting/whatever them yourself.

 

Resources/training is tiered or imbalanced. Why was mining iron better than mining rune? Why were willows better than yews? Nowadays, gathering skills are mostly useless; you can get more adamant ore ore during an hour of high level PvM than you could in hours of mining it. Even worse, you got less adamant bars mining the ore and coal and then smelting it than when when killing Aviansies with crappy gear all the way back in '07!

 

So many skills were designed without any future planning. Rune two-handed swords being level 99 Smithing showed immense lack of foresight. More so when you consider rune equipment being level 40 equipment later (and worse, at the time, weapons didn't have requirements!). Soon enough comes dragon equipment, level 60. And how do you reforge a dragon square shield? Oh, that's right, with level 60 smithing. Only 33 more levels and you can make a greatly inferior rune square shield! Even skills released recently have terrible content at the top. Summoning only has a handful of good familiars with little balance. The best combat familiar primarily uses range and requires 99 summoning, no magic/melee familiar even compares; the Pack Yak is the best, by far, beast of burden, greatly surpassing the War Tortoise simply due to its banking ability, let alone the +12 slots; the Unicorn stallion was the best healing familiar for non-bossing activities prior Evolution of Combat; and... all the others are useless. Even Dungeoneering was useless beyond getting the necessary Chaotic weapons, which only required 94 to get all the useful ones of the time (rapier, crossbow, staff, and maul), and yet the skill went up to 120...

 

Only nostalgia can hide the fact that RuneScape's skills were poorly implemented from the start. AFK and devalued accomplishment aren't the problem. Terrible design and planning are.

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It's inevitably what happens in a game (that Andrew Gower himself said) that was never intended to last this long.

 

Even going back 5 or 6 years, the cracks were starting to show. You can build and build on top of a poorly-built foundation, but all you're left with is a Jenga tower that's in very real danger of collapsing.

 

RuneScape now is just bloated with features that exist purely to extend the life of the game for as long as possible - however long that will be is anyone's guess.

 

I'd really, really love them to start wrapping up all the major, unfinished quest lines now and start working on a proper sequel to RS3.

 

Hell, they even have the perfect out with the Elder Gods. What better way to make a RuneScape 4 than having the entire universe start anew.


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I disagree that RuneScape's skilling system, in practice, was ever good.

 

Each skill is essentially standalone. A better woodcutting level only helps you when woodcutting. A better firemaking level only helps you when firemaking. Same for smithing and all the others. Leveling these skills simply unlocks further content to train these skills. Any exceptions are simply band-aids to the original design.

 

All skills are overwhelmingly solo activities. Sometimes having more players training can impact the others, more so back in the day than now. The best iron mining spots, which provided the best mining experience of course, could only hold one player. The best hunter spots would highly competitive (chinchompas, salamanders). Then you have totally instanced skills, like farming and all the artisan skills. Dungeoneering was the exception, but now sinkholes, buffed solo experience, and daily challenges make that moot. Essentially, RuneScape was a solo RPG with multiplayer chatting unless you went into the wilderness...

 

Many were useless (and some still are). Firemaking is pointless. The artisan skills are mostly useless because infinitely better gear is obtainable from PvM. Divination is essentially useless because Invention was delayed for so long (and it's sad that Invention is required to make the skill useful; why bother making it in the first place?). Gathering skills are obsolete because killing your typical slayer monster, let alone the big meany spiders, ghosts, enlightened rocks, and incompetent pet owners followed by giant worms-snake-dragon-spirits are better means of obtaining most resources than mining/woodcutting/harvesting/whatever them yourself.

 

Resources/training is tiered or imbalanced. Why was mining iron better than mining rune? Why were willows better than yews? Nowadays, gathering skills are mostly useless; you can get more adamant ore ore during an hour of high level PvM than you could in hours of mining it. Even worse, you got less adamant bars mining the ore and coal and then smelting it than when when killing Aviansies with crappy gear all the way back in '07!

 

So many skills were designed without any future planning. Rune two-handed swords being level 99 Smithing showed immense lack of foresight. More so when you consider rune equipment being level 40 equipment later (and worse, at the time, weapons didn't have requirements!). Soon enough comes dragon equipment, level 60. And how do you reforge a dragon square shield? Oh, that's right, with level 60 smithing. Only 33 more levels and you can make a greatly inferior rune square shield! Even skills released recently have terrible content at the top. Summoning only has a handful of good familiars with little balance. The best combat familiar primarily uses range and requires 99 summoning, no magic/melee familiar even compares; the Pack Yak is the best, by far, beast of burden, greatly surpassing the War Tortoise simply due to its banking ability, let alone the +12 slots; the Unicorn stallion was the best healing familiar for non-bossing activities prior Evolution of Combat; and... all the others are useless. Even Dungeoneering was useless beyond getting the necessary Chaotic weapons, which only required 94 to get all the useful ones of the time (rapier, crossbow, staff, and maul), and yet the skill went up to 120...

 

Only nostalgia can hide the fact that RuneScape's skills were poorly implemented from the start. AFK and devalued accomplishment aren't the problem. Terrible design and planning are.

 

Some great points Veiva, I was reading your post on the bus actually (as you do) and it really gets me thinking about the game.

 

I do think the "AFK Culture" is a part of it though, but a large reason as you say it poor design, poor implementation.

 

I think the largest concern for me, someone who loved the game watching it from a distance now is that Jagex will try to fix a lot of these issues with Invention.

For Jagex to re-do every skill they just won't, everything Jagex does is cosmetic, they don't "tweak the formula" they'll give you a Falador graphical overhaul before they'll look at the skill system, because it's doesn't require much thinking.

 

I think there really needs to be an "Evolution of Skilling" so to speak, it's in dire need.

When I think of RuneScape skilling I think of The Sims, and micro managing a Sim to stand in the mirror to get his charisma up, that's the depth you have to a RuneScape skill.

We're looking at skill system that doesn't work an MMO, you may aswell have plumb-bobs on your head.

 

I know Smithing is getting an overhaul next year but they need to make skills more challenging, where mastery is more than an experience limit, actually being good at a skill I think should be achievable.

 

Dynamic content is something I think is fun, one that is never the same twice and takes some form of skill is what they need to do. What are we kidding though Jagex will consider it for about 10 seconds and then abandon it because they have an audience now which won't quit because they've played for 10+ years and sadly can't quit because they've invested "too much".

 

It's inevitably what happens in a game (that Andrew Gower himself said) that was never intended to last this long.

 

Even going back 5 or 6 years, the cracks were starting to show. You can build and build on top of a poorly-built foundation, but all you're left with is a Jenga tower that's in very real danger of collapsing.

 

RuneScape now is just bloated with features that exist purely to extend the life of the game for as long as possible - however long that will be is anyone's guess.

 

I'd really, really love them to start wrapping up all the major, unfinished quest lines now and start working on a proper sequel to RS3.

 

Hell, they even have the perfect out with the Elder Gods. What better way to make a RuneScape 4 than having the entire universe start anew.

 

I think its not intended to last this long but I don't think they've revisited content to make it evolve over time which hasn't helped.

They've improved PvM and quests vastly, but the skill system is completely unchanged which I think is why people just like to PvM now they like to be challenged, where as skilling the biggest test is finding something to watch on Netflix.


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And i think they have devalued quests immensely because to them the resources needed to make a one of for a character isn't worth it. Hence, recycling old graphics, mechanics, and the new "this thing is going to make me crack open a tequila" bottle quest.

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Back after a 5 year TIF hiatus. Please don't mind me too much.

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if they didn't waste their budget and time making once off characters and areas and built people and places with depth that people would actually be able to care about for more than ten minutes, i think that they wouldn't be forced to top themselves every month

 

weird mechanics aren't what i play quests for


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if they didn't waste their budget and time making once off characters and areas and built people and places with depth that people would actually be able to care about for more than ten minutes, i think that they wouldn't be forced to top themselves every month\

Are you saying that they shouldn't keep killing important characters off as soon as they're introduced?

 

Do you realize how insane you sound right now?

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