Jesus made him do it

[bearofthunder]

New York Times

 

 

 

 

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version, Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the authorities, telling Judas he will "exceed" the other disciples by doing so...

 

 

 

"The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient Christian apocryphal literature," Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging and studies of the script and linguistic style...

 

 

 

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

 

 

 

thoughts?

[pianofrieak2]

It's probably as true as the DaVinci Code. :roll:

[Striker6]

da da vinci code is da bible.

[bearofthunder]

It's probably as true as the DaVinci Code. :roll:

 

 

 

But it's just as old as all the other gospels. How do you know those are right and this one is wrong?

[Higothrekk]

personally I find it encouraging, if like many people believe jesus was just a man (I don't believe this but..), It would show he was a man who had the foresight to see how his vision of justice and peace could effect people thousands of years into the future, and realise his death would, in a sense be more valuable than his life, given the time taken to communicate the message of god between countries back then him dying as the son of god was far more important than them seeing him as an old man puking on everything and losing control of his bladder.

[yomom1919]

its the new your times c'mon :roll: the most liberal newspaper in the world is ought to post some junk like that.

[bearofthunder]

its the new your times c'mon :roll: the most liberal newspaper in the world is ought to post some junk like that.

 

 

 

I remember Time magazine had this in January about how it was discovered and the plan to reveal its contents in a few months. A bunch of other newspapers have articles on it too. USA today, Wall Street Journal, etc.

 

And this is an article about an actual document that people can see right now, so no matter how liberal nytimes is, they can't make up what isn't written in the gospel already.

[Guest GhostRanger]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the manuscript, the bias of the New York Times, or other such silly things. In fact, I'm not even going to make the claim that there is anything inacurate about the article. I will though, point out that caution must be excersized when examining things such as this, you have to remember that this is a document written by man who betrayed Jesus, and hung himself afterwards. Would you, for instance, believe in 100% accuracy when you read papers written by Hitler where he explained that the evil nature of the Jews is a legitimate reason for exterminate the race?

[Higothrekk]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the manuscript, the bias of the New York Times, or other such silly things. In fact, I'm not even going to make the claim that there is anything inacurate about the article. I will though, point out that caution must be excersized when examining things such as this, you have to remember that this is a document written by man who betrayed Jesus, and hung himself afterwards. Would you, for instance, believe in 100% accuracy when you read papers written by Hitler where he explained that the evil nature of the Jews is a legitimate reason for exterminate the race?

 

 

 

The Gospel of Judas was written in about 180 AD by a man called Irenaeus , who incidentally is a Saint now. I would like to inform everyone however, that the only people to use this gospel in history were the Cainites, a group who worshipped Cain, the first man to murder his brother, support of this document is most likely the same argumentitive mindset that they supported.

[Guest GhostRanger]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the manuscript, the bias of the New York Times, or other such silly things. In fact, I'm not even going to make the claim that there is anything inacurate about the article. I will though, point out that caution must be excersized when examining things such as this, you have to remember that this is a document written by man who betrayed Jesus, and hung himself afterwards. Would you, for instance, believe in 100% accuracy when you read papers written by Hitler where he explained that the evil nature of the Jews is a legitimate reason for exterminate the race?

 

 

 

The Gospel of Judas was written in about 180 AD by a man called Irenaeus , who incidentally is a Saint now. I would like to inform everyone however, that the only people to use this gospel in history were the Cainites, a group who worshipped Cain, the first man to murder his brother, support of this document is most likely the same argumentitive mindset that they supported.

 

 

 

Good information to know. Doesn't that then make the Gospel of Judas unlike the other gospels, as they were written by the people who were there?

[Higothrekk]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the manuscript, the bias of the New York Times, or other such silly things. In fact, I'm not even going to make the claim that there is anything inacurate about the article. I will though, point out that caution must be excersized when examining things such as this, you have to remember that this is a document written by man who betrayed Jesus, and hung himself afterwards. Would you, for instance, believe in 100% accuracy when you read papers written by Hitler where he explained that the evil nature of the Jews is a legitimate reason for exterminate the race?

 

 

 

The Gospel of Judas was written in about 180 AD by a man called Irenaeus , who incidentally is a Saint now. I would like to inform everyone however, that the only people to use this gospel in history were the Cainites, a group who worshipped Cain, the first man to murder his brother, support of this document is most likely the same argumentitive mindset that they supported.

 

 

 

Good information to know. Doesn't that then make the Gospel of Judas unlike the other gospels, as they were written by the people who were there?

 

 

 

Hmm, maybe , maybe not, the earliest gospel believe to be written was Matthew, and by using a timeline of events even that has been placed at around 50 A.D.

[insane]

It's probably as true as the DaVinci Code. :roll:

 

 

 

But it's just as old as all the other gospels. How do you know those are right and this one is wrong?

 

 

 

Even if it were as old as the other gospels this is the only one that supports an opposing view. In this situation, there is strength in numbers. What you also miss is that other gospels are written before this, such as the Gospel of Mark, which is ususally dated 65-80AD - whereas the "Gospel" of Judas is dated around 200AD.

[Guest GhostRanger]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the manuscript, the bias of the New York Times, or other such silly things. In fact, I'm not even going to make the claim that there is anything inacurate about the article. I will though, point out that caution must be excersized when examining things such as this, you have to remember that this is a document written by man who betrayed Jesus, and hung himself afterwards. Would you, for instance, believe in 100% accuracy when you read papers written by Hitler where he explained that the evil nature of the Jews is a legitimate reason for exterminate the race?

 

 

 

The Gospel of Judas was written in about 180 AD by a man called Irenaeus , who incidentally is a Saint now. I would like to inform everyone however, that the only people to use this gospel in history were the Cainites, a group who worshipped Cain, the first man to murder his brother, support of this document is most likely the same argumentitive mindset that they supported.

 

 

 

Good information to know. Doesn't that then make the Gospel of Judas unlike the other gospels, as they were written by the people who were there?

 

 

 

Hmm, maybe , maybe not, the earliest gospel believe to be written was Matthew, and by using a timeline of events even that has been placed at around 50 A.D.

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about when they were written. You said the Gospel of Judas was not written by Judas, whereas the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This would make the Gospel of Judas different than the other gospels, as it is written by someone who was not there.

[Astralinre]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the manuscript, the bias of the New York Times, or other such silly things. In fact, I'm not even going to make the claim that there is anything inacurate about the article. I will though, point out that caution must be excersized when examining things such as this, you have to remember that this is a document written by man who betrayed Jesus, and hung himself afterwards. Would you, for instance, believe in 100% accuracy when you read papers written by Hitler where he explained that the evil nature of the Jews is a legitimate reason for exterminate the race?

 

 

 

The Gospel of Judas was written in about 180 AD by a man called Irenaeus , who incidentally is a Saint now. I would like to inform everyone however, that the only people to use this gospel in history were the Cainites, a group who worshipped Cain, the first man to murder his brother, support of this document is most likely the same argumentitive mindset that they supported.

 

 

 

Good information to know. Doesn't that then make the Gospel of Judas unlike the other gospels, as they were written by the people who were there?

 

 

 

Hmm, maybe , maybe not, the earliest gospel believe to be written was Matthew, and by using a timeline of events even that has been placed at around 50 A.D.

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about when they were written. You said the Gospel of Judas was not written by Judas, whereas the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This would make the Gospel of Judas different than the other gospels, as it is written by someone who was not there.

 

 

 

Yep, Matthew and John were both Apostles, Mark was an associate of the Apostle Peter, and Luke was an associate of Paul and also researched his account thoroughly. Those four were also written within the lifetimes of the Apostles. The Gospel of Judas, however, was written 100 years after the disciples were dead by a man who did not know any of them.

[yomom1919]

I'm not going to argue the validity of the manuscript, the bias of the New York Times, or other such silly things. In fact, I'm not even going to make the claim that there is anything inacurate about the article. I will though, point out that caution must be excersized when examining things such as this, you have to remember that this is a document written by man who betrayed Jesus, and hung himself afterwards. Would you, for instance, believe in 100% accuracy when you read papers written by Hitler where he explained that the evil nature of the Jews is a legitimate reason for exterminate the race?

 

 

 

The Gospel of Judas was written in about 180 AD by a man called Irenaeus , who incidentally is a Saint now. I would like to inform everyone however, that the only people to use this gospel in history were the Cainites, a group who worshipped Cain, the first man to murder his brother, support of this document is most likely the same argumentitive mindset that they supported.

 

 

 

interesting. then this not only points to jesus's existence but controversy the pagan government would have wanted. behind it. it said 180 ad, which means people must have known Jesus's story preety fast. mabye the cannanites just wanted to flip and switch it around.

[Necromagus]

It's still an interesting idea though. From what I've heard, the gospel of Judas is written with the idea that the quest for knowledge is the highest virtue, and that the physical world only exists as a burden on that quest. By handing Jesus over to the authorities, Judas helped him overcome the burden of the physical world and ascend to true heavenly knowledge.

 

 

 

I'd love to get my hands on a transcription of the text and try to translate it for myself. Considering the timeframe it's probably not written in the Attic dialect I've learned in school, but it would be interesting enough to give it a shot...

[bearofthunder]

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about when they were written. You said the Gospel of Judas was not written by Judas, whereas the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This would make the Gospel of Judas different than the other gospels, as it is written by someone who was not there.

 

 

 

I don't know about that. There's been a lot of debate about whether or not the gospels were actually written by the names in their title. For example, the Greek language of the Gospels seem to be in different time periods from each other. Also, some of the Gospels do not directly say who the person writing is. And there is in some parts a lack of familiarity with the geography of the places where the events took place.

[Guest GhostRanger]

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about when they were written. You said the Gospel of Judas was not written by Judas, whereas the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This would make the Gospel of Judas different than the other gospels, as it is written by someone who was not there.

 

 

 

I don't know about that. There's been a lot of debate about whether or not the gospels were actually written by the names in their title. For example, the Greek of the Gospels seem to be in different time periods from each other. Also, some of the Gospels do not directly say who the person writing is. And there is in some parts a lack of familiarity with the geography of the places where the events took place.

 

 

 

I think you might find your facts to be a little misunderstood. Just because someone brings up the idea that "maybe they weren't written by who we think that were," doesn't mean there is legitimate debate about the topic. Any Bible scholar can tell you with confidence that the gospels were written by whom they are said to be written by, and if you would like their reasons why, I don't mind giving my dad a call later tonight and ask (he has two Bible-related degrees, one specifically in New Testement.)

 

 

 

No one claims to know who wrote Hebrews because we don't actually have enough evidence to support it, but we know who wrote the Gospels.

 

 

 

And even if you could bring up enough debate about who actually wrote the gospels, they were still written during the life span of the apostles and people who would have been around Jesus. The Gospel of Judas was not (according to you).

[bearofthunder]

 

 

 

 

 

I think you might find your facts to be a little misunderstood. Just because someone brings up the idea that "maybe they weren't written by who we think that were," doesn't mean there is legitimate debate about the topic. Any Bible scholar can tell you with confidence that the gospels were written by whom they are said to be written by, and if you would like their reasons why, I don't mind giving my dad a call later tonight and ask (he has two Bible-related degrees, one specifically in New Testement.)

 

 

 

No one claims to know who wrote Hebrews because we don't actually have enough evidence to support it, but we know who wrote the Gospels.

 

 

 

And even if you could bring up enough debate about who actually wrote the gospels, they were still written during the life span of the apostles and people who would have been around Jesus. The Gospel of Judas was not (according to you).

 

 

 

The Gospel of Judas is obviously less accurate because of its date, but Irenaeus could have easily spoken to people who were around Jesus. He is considered one of the founders of Christian theology, so I doubt he would be influenced by the pagan government, the cainites, or any of the other anti-Christianity groups.

[Bloodredsword]

interesting....i was watching that on the news today

 

 

 

 

 

but i don't really think thats true

[assassin_696]

I think this is very interesting. I've heard of the Gnostic Gospels before, and to me it seems perfectly plausible that other disciples wrote accounts of the life of Jesus of Nazareth. It seems accurate enough, i'd love to read the translation.

[Lionheart_0]

Wow, im surprised, this made the front page of my newsapaper this morning. That and the last episode of the red green show....

[How2PK]

So. If this would be 'true' we owe Judas an apologie. Right?

[Punc]

Without Judas Jezus wouldn't have been killed, so no ressurection, so no renewal of the word of God. Without Judas there wouldn't be Christianity.

 

 

 

The Bible itself states that Jezus said to Jduas that he had to furfill his dirty deed, I don't think Judas would've done it without that comment of Jezus.

[Bubsa]

Psh, Bob Dylan wrote about this ages ago.