Guest GhostRanger Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 =D> I completely agree with you, Scruffy. I hate people bringing religion into a political debate. I agree and disagree. I don't think there should be laws establishing a national religion or supporting one religion over another, however, since religion affects people's beliefs - and politics are made up of people's beliefs - there has to be a point where they come together. For instance, I strongly believe that we should not kill or murder. I believe these things because I was raised knowing the Bible says we should not do them. Indoctrinated, if you will. But whatever the reason, I think these things should be outlawed so if given the chance, I will try and outlaw them. Now other people, perhaps yourself, happen to agree with me on these issues. Some believe it because of religion, some believe it for other reasons. One person's reason is no better than anyone elses, so I have every right to bring my religious beliefs into politics as long as I'm not forcing someone to become a Christian. I'm not even going to say "I think it should be this way because the Bible says so." It's not necessary. No one can really "prove" why they think something is wrong, so me thinking it is wrong is all I need to. If a secularist can attempt outlaw murder because they believe it's wrong, then a Christian can attempt to outlaw murder because they think it's wrong. Majority wins. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killer_stone Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Keep your (or any for that matter) religion out of my politics! By keeping religion out of politics were not advocating atheism or any other religion. Your advocating the American Way. The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country. Got a problem with gay marriage? Wonderful but you can't ban it because God tells you, thats undermining the Americian way. Enough of that rant. As for my politics I'm a pretty liberal fellow although their have been times when I have agreed with conservitives on some issues. I'm not so narrow minded that I look to somones political party affiliation before I look at the issue. As for my religion I am a Pastafarian, or a follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Note I have a tendencey to get a little flamey when it comes to these types of posts, offensive comments often get you the best responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knives669 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I was more or less talking about people who are going to sit there and say, "Well, I think it should be this way because the bible says it should be this way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostRanger Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Keep your (or any for that matter) religion out of my politics! By keeping religion out of politics were not advocating atheism or any other religion. Your advocating the American Way. The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country. Got a problem with * marriage? Wonderful but you can't ban it because God tells you, thats undermining the Americian way. What if I want to ban it because I think it's wrong and unnatural? Not because God told me so...but because I believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfboy Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 . The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country Yeah, but did you know that the early Americans then began forcing their religious beliefs on others? At least two states (Rhode Island and Utah) were founded by people fleeing the same persecution their fathers fleed when coming to America in the first place. Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown; ignorance can be educated and drunkeness sobered, but stupid is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfboy Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 . The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country Yeah, but did you know that the early Americans then began forcing their religious beliefs on others? At least two states (Rhode Island and Utah) were founded by people fleeing the same persecution their fathers fleed when coming to America in the first place. Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown; ignorance can be educated and drunkeness sobered, but stupid is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfboy Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 . The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country Yeah, but did you know that the early Americans then began forcing their religious beliefs on others? At least two states (Rhode Island and Utah) were founded by people fleeing the same persecution their fathers fleed when coming to America in the first place. Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown; ignorance can be educated and drunkeness sobered, but stupid is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfboy Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 . The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country Yeah, but did you know that the early Americans then began forcing their religious beliefs on others? At least two states (Rhode Island and Utah) were founded by people fleeing the same persecution their fathers fleed when coming to America in the first place. Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown; ignorance can be educated and drunkeness sobered, but stupid is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfboy Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 . The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country Yeah, but did you know that the early Americans then began forcing their religious beliefs on others? At least two states (Rhode Island and Utah) were founded by people fleeing the same persecution their fathers fleed when coming to America in the first place. Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown; ignorance can be educated and drunkeness sobered, but stupid is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfboy Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 . The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country Yeah, but did you know that the early Americans then began forcing their religious beliefs on others? At least two states (Rhode Island and Utah) were founded by people fleeing the same persecution their fathers fleed when coming to America in the first place. Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown; ignorance can be educated and drunkeness sobered, but stupid is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfboy Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 . The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country Yeah, but did you know that the early Americans then began forcing their religious beliefs on others? At least two states (Rhode Island and Utah) were founded by people fleeing the same persecution their fathers fleed when coming to America in the first place. Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown; ignorance can be educated and drunkeness sobered, but stupid is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anesthesia Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Keep your (or any for that matter) religion out of my politics! By keeping religion out of politics were not advocating atheism or any other religion. Calling atheism a religion is like calling baldness a hair colour. Some people are changed by being a moderator. I wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackalope14 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Keep your (or any for that matter) religion out of my politics! By keeping religion out of politics were not advocating atheism or any other religion. Calling atheism a religion is like calling baldness a hair colour. Haha thats a really good one! :lol: Your right. I think this was discussed in "Do you believe in God" thread and I dont see why some people think Atheism is a religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostRanger Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Keep your (or any for that matter) religion out of my politics! By keeping religion out of politics were not advocating atheism or any other religion. Calling atheism a religion is like calling baldness a hair colour. But...I just dyed my hair bald. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzira Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Keep your (or any for that matter) religion out of my politics! By keeping religion out of politics were not advocating atheism or any other religion. Your advocating the American Way. The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country. Got a problem with * marriage? Wonderful but you can't ban it because God tells you, thats undermining the Americian way. What if I want to ban it because I think it's wrong and unnatural? Not because God told me so...but because I believe so. You only think it's unnatural because your pastor tells you it is. In reality it happens so it must be natural. Homosexuality isn't supernatural is it? In fact there are a lot of examples in nature of animals exhibiting homosexual behavior. Are these animals unnatural or are they put here by Satan to influence people to be gay. OMG! That must be it! "Philosophy is composed of questions that may never be answered.Religion is composed of answers that may never be questioned. ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostRanger Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Keep your (or any for that matter) religion out of my politics! By keeping religion out of politics were not advocating atheism or any other religion. Your advocating the American Way. The pilgrims came to America so people would force their damned religions upon them and having laws made based on religious beliefs would undermine the whole concept of this country. Got a problem with * marriage? Wonderful but you can't ban it because God tells you, thats undermining the Americian way. What if I want to ban it because I think it's wrong and unnatural? Not because God told me so...but because I believe so. You only think it's unnatural because your pastor tells you it is. In reality it happens so it must be natural. Homosexuality isn't supernatural is it? In fact there are a lot of examples in nature of animals exhibiting homosexual behavior. Are these animals unnatural or are they put here by Satan to influence people to be *. OMG! That must be it! 1) I don't have a pastor 2) The preacher at my church has never told me homosexuality is wrong 3) The point remains. What if I think it's wrong just because I do? You can't prove to me that I believe it because of my religion. Maybe I just believe it. Afterall, atheists believe that some things are wrong and they don't have a pastor telling them to. So answer the question. What if I think it's wrong just because I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianofrieak2 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 You only think it's unnatural because your pastor tells you it is. In reality it happens so it must be natural. Homosexuality isn't supernatural is it? In fact there are a lot of examples in nature of animals exhibiting homosexual behavior. Are these animals unnatural or are they put here by Satan to influence people to be *. OMG! That must be it! Actually, Ghost's reason is the reason behind the Bible forbidding it. :shock: As for this comment, your example is ridiculous. Not only are animals sometimes homosexual, but they also eat their young and are cannibals, eating their own kind!! Does that mean cannibalism is natural? According to you, yes. :-s I'm currently transitioning from a Wizard to a Mage and a Priest to an Archpriest. Lol both are nonexistant in the top 25. Hopefully I can change that. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richpoepaap Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hi, I'm 15 and very right-wing, I do not believe in god and i think that religion does more harm than good in the world. I am pro-abortion and i think that women should get the right to make up for a mistake as what's the point in bringing up a child that you did not mean to have as you wouldn't truely love them. A mistake is something you can wipe out with a pen eraser. A child is not. In my eyes, aborting is murder. Why is it that people think you can destroy that life, just because you can't see it yet. If you don't want, can't take care of, or give love to the child, give it to an orphanage. Search a solution. Never kill it. (don't take this personal, never ment as an offense, just sharing me view here :) ) I am Christian, but have some ideas that stroke with the Catholic Church. I'm quite open minded about religion, and I try to find my own answers as much as I can. I am not against homosexuality, but I don't really agree about adoption for homosexuals. I also disagree with homoexual people saying they are normal. In mind and social things they may be, but it is not right to say they are completely normal. Also, I agree with pianofrieak2 on the forced tolerance things. These days, when a foreigner does something wrong, you can't say anything about it, because you are a "racist" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anesthesia Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Does that mean cannibalism is natural? According to you, yes. :-s Why do you find that so astonishing? So many species sometimes eat their young... Are you saying that every time that happens it is them defying your god? Some people are changed by being a moderator. I wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostRanger Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Does that mean cannibalism is natural? According to you, yes. :-s Why do you find that so astonishing? So many species sometimes eat their young... Are you saying that every time that happens it is them defying your god? I think his point is that, if homosexuality is proven acceptable by animals doing it - then cannibalism should be the same. Right? So why is cannibalism considered wrong, but homosexuality isn't? (piano, correct me if I'm wrong about the point you were trying to make.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianofrieak2 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 That's right, Ghost. That's right. If homosexuality is condoned because animals do it, then you must also condone cannibalism. I'm currently transitioning from a Wizard to a Mage and a Priest to an Archpriest. Lol both are nonexistant in the top 25. Hopefully I can change that. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anesthesia Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Because homosexuality is something practiced between two consenting individuals whereas cannibalism generally isn't? What you are proposing is totally flawed, you don't consider how it affects others too. The same as from the euthanasia argument where you likened euthanasia (where the person to die is consenting) to murder (where the person to die has no say). Some people are changed by being a moderator. I wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostRanger Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Because homosexuality is something practiced between two consenting individuals whereas cannibalism generally isn't? What you are proposing is totally flawed, you don't consider how it affects others too. The same as from the euthanasia argument where you likened euthanasia (where the person to die is consenting) to murder (where the person to die has no say). I wasn't actually likening the entire thing to each other. What I said was that *what if* I thought it was wrong and unnatural. The argument was that animals in the wild do it. Then argument to that was that animals in the wild also eat their young. The point was, can we compare the actions of humans to animals and it be considered fair? Of course not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianofrieak2 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Our point for Godzira is that he can say nothing to us if we just "think" homosexuality is unnatural, thus being contrary to what we should accept. He can't prove homosexuality is natural which is our entire argument. Right, Ghost? I'm currently transitioning from a Wizard to a Mage and a Priest to an Archpriest. Lol both are nonexistant in the top 25. Hopefully I can change that. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anesthesia Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hey I'm not saying that 'because animals do it, it's okay' - that was someone else. I was pointing out that because so many do it then it must occur naturally - it is obviously not the 'natural thing to do' (in a general sense) or else no species would succeed. Humans used to cannibalise a fair amount before we developed too though, as some tribes still do (Kombai tribe for example, in Papua New Guinea) - it occurs naturally but now we (for some reason) consider it uncivilised. Don't ask me why, I'm not an anthropologist. Some people are changed by being a moderator. I wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now