Runescape has too many restricions

[Nazgul740]

What i am talking about is this...

 

 

 

Lets say my character wants to put deadly nightshade into his attack potion... Uh oh... i can't!

 

 

 

what about my rs character wanted to combine 2 doses of prayer potion with 2 doses of strength potion? nope not gonna happen!

 

 

 

What i am talking about is the ability to experiment with items in the game and have a more free form approach... Why can't we combine 2 potions? I'm sure that "nothing interesting happens" is a phrase seen way to much by most rs players...

 

 

 

Its not limited to herblore either, there are countless options for many many other skills...

 

 

 

Sure i know you people are gonna say "pmg! but that would take so much time to program!"

 

 

 

Please r0fl don't make fun of your intelligence jagex spends as much time on quests and hidden updates as it would take to make one skill like this...

 

 

 

I just want more options for me items :P

[Stilev]

i would really enjoy having a super prayer str pot lol : i always thought that would be cool to mix like 1 does of prayer, and a super set into a super set prayer pot although it uses up a full vail you drink the vial you empty it

 

 

 

on a side note it might take a full month but they could have so many things they could do, i think that most them just be stuiped like putting a maul on fire and it turns a little black at th end for like a min or too be cool

 

 

 

any way i think that be an awsume update for a single month :

[eyehawk78]

The main strange restriction I can think of is using a bucket of water with fire.... nothing intresting happens? Yeah sure :^o

[Smapla]

Yeah, and why can't we add more wood to an existing fire, to keep it going longer!

[Greedom1]

They wouldn't necessarily have to make "combo" potions -- merely adding the two together could cause an "explosion" similar to nitroglycerin... Sure, it could wreak havoc one unsuspecting players, but it could make things a bit more interesting... though I see scams happening a lot. As in:

 

 

 

Scammer: Here man, try using these two pots together - you get 1k herb exp AND you can recharge prayer and boost combat levels...

 

Newb: OKAY!

 

Scammer: *twiddles fingers in Mr. Burns fashion* Exxxxxxcellent.

 

Newb: Oh No, I was hit for 20 hp drain and now I'm dead. *loses items*

 

Scammer: HAHAHAH... I am the COOLEST.

[Esper_Jones]

It would be interesting if EVERY combination of potions made some unique, but consistent result.

 

 

 

Say, in your example, mixing 2 doses of prayer and 2 doses of strength would make a potion that would drain hp and attack, but increase prayer and strength less than each potion would alone.

 

 

 

There are about 15 different herbs in the game, so about 20 or so potions, right? Therefore, Jagex needs to only make 2432902008176640000 combinations... Maybe not?

[Artie_900]

What i am talking about is the ability to experiment with items in the game and have a more free form approach... Why can't we combine 2 potions?

 

 

 

Because the game isn't built to support unneccessary stuff like this. We know from info dumps people have made that each item is a separate entry in some sort of database- there's not just one Guthan's Spear, for example, there's an entry for a Guthan's Spear, a Guthan's Spear 100, Guthan's Spear 75, Guthan's Spear 50, Guthan's Spear 25, and a broken one. And so forth for the rest of Guthan's set, and so forth for the rest of every other barrows set.

 

 

 

Now extrapolate that to every other item in the game, and think about what you'd need to do to implement something like this. You would need to have an item entry for every possible combination of every potion and every single dose level that you could come up with, and you don't have to be a mathematical genius to realize that this is a ludicrously huge number, well past the billions.

 

 

 

Not to mention that this is entirely unneeded. Potions work fine as it is. What are you going to do with a potion that's half super strength and half prayer? It's not going to convey any great advantage, other than maybe saving one inventory space, and you'd need twice as many doses to get the same effect anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure i know you people are gonna say "pmg! but that would take so much time to program!"

 

 

 

Please r0fl don't make fun of your intelligence jagex spends as much time on quests and hidden updates as it would take to make one skill like this...

 

 

 

You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. You don't even have the vaguest concept. Quests are probably the single easiest thing to implement- all the code for NPC interaction is already written. Plunk down some new NPCs that tell the player to go here and fetch item X, and you've got yourself a quest. Maybe add some new land- the system for which is already implemented- or new items- the system for which is also already implemented. Implementing something like this, on the other hand, would be a logistical nightmare and would almost certainly require scrapping and rewriting probably half the code base- not to mention not being useful.

[tefda]

Everything Artie said was true.

 

 

 

When I code stuff I have an overlaying system for certain elements. Meaning I make one code for multiple things and the only reason why I can do that is because all of those elements act in the EXACT SAME WAY. I'll bet anything that in Runescape Jagex uses a switch statement (with "if" statements to check if you're doing something else instead of just regular talking). With the switch you can easily make one code for lots and lots of things that will act exactly the same (i.e. the NPC's chatting with us).

 

 

 

Using a switch for items would work for items but then adding in all the if statements for so many items would be ridiculous. Think of all the 2 Dose potions and the 1 Dose potions that would need to be accounted for as well.

 

 

 

All games have restrictions. Runescape is NOT oriented experimentation and stumbling through things and coming out with an awesome item. Everything is detailed out for you. All games are the same, others just give a slight mystery to what you can do but I can almost guarantee that there is not a single game out there that has a completely scripted multiple item creator for users.

 

 

 

Not only from the code aspect but also the game balance could be in jeopardy. The combined potions could be considered too powerful by some. What happens when you're out in the wilderness and have just about slain a person who was using their prayer to avoid damage and suddenly their prayer is back to full and so all are of their stats from one sip of a potion.

 

 

 

Why do we have level restrictions? Why not just get rid of those and let the level 3 player mine runite. The game is difficult and you need to earn your skills, you need to strategize your inventory for what you're doing. We're given a limited space for a reason. We need to things in measured steps and not just in a flurry of seconds.

 

 

 

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, do you know how long Jagex actually spends on developing things? Does it actually take them a week, perhaps only a day. You do not know. I am relating from my own works in programming and not from Jagex's point of view, I only suggested a possibility of what they do.

[Esper_Jones]

What i am talking about is the ability to experiment with items in the game and have a more free form approach... Why can't we combine 2 potions?

 

 

 

Because the game isn't built to support unneccessary stuff like this. We know from info dumps people have made that each item is a separate entry in some sort of database- there's not just one Guthan's Spear, for example, there's an entry for a Guthan's Spear, a Guthan's Spear 100, Guthan's Spear 75, Guthan's Spear 50, Guthan's Spear 25, and a broken one. And so forth for the rest of Guthan's set, and so forth for the rest of every other barrows set.

 

 

 

Now extrapolate that to every other item in the game, and think about what you'd need to do to implement something like this. You would need to have an item entry for every possible combination of every potion and every single dose level that you could come up with, and you don't have to be a mathematical genius to realize that this is a ludicrously huge number, well past the billions.

 

 

 

Not to mention that this is entirely unneeded. Potions work fine as it is. What are you going to do with a potion that's half super strength and half prayer? It's not going to convey any great advantage, other than maybe saving one inventory space, and you'd need twice as many doses to get the same effect anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure i know you people are gonna say "pmg! but that would take so much time to program!"

 

 

 

Please r0fl don't make fun of your intelligence jagex spends as much time on quests and hidden updates as it would take to make one skill like this...

 

 

 

You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. You don't even have the vaguest concept. Quests are probably the single easiest thing to implement- all the code for NPC interaction is already written. Plunk down some new NPCs that tell the player to go here and fetch item X, and you've got yourself a quest. Maybe add some new land- the system for which is already implemented- or new items- the system for which is also already implemented. Implementing something like this, on the other hand, would be a logistical nightmare and would almost certainly require scrapping and rewriting probably half the code base- not to mention not being useful.

 

 

 

Close, but still incorrect.

 

 

 

The system for mixing items is already implemented. In fact, most of the things are already implemented, as you said.

 

 

 

Note that for quests, Jagex constantly adds new mixes to existing items. Use a pestle and mortar on a mud rune, and what do you get? A new item, a new combination.

 

 

 

The logistical problem, as you said, is the fact that you would have to create a LOT more different combinations. It wouldn't require a rewrite of the system, or even rewriting any code - it would just require a whole lot of new content being added - more so than even a new skill.

[Esper_Jones]

When I code stuff I have an overlaying system for certain elements. Meaning I make one code for multiple things and the only reason why I can do that is because all of those elements act in the EXACT SAME WAY. I'll bet anything that in Runescape Jagex uses a switch statement (with "if" statements to check if you're doing something else instead of just regular talking). With the switch you can easily make one code for lots and lots of things that will act exactly the same (i.e. the NPC's chatting with us).

 

 

 

Do you know the main reason I would disagree with that? The main reason is that your statement would mean the GAME CODE would have to be modified with every update, no matter how small.

 

 

 

Even if it's one line in say the class that controls item mixing, that means the entire item class would have to be recompiled into byte code.

 

 

 

Many JMods have mentioned that Runescape is built on it's own scripting language, meaning that in order to modify anything like that, you don't have to change the game code itself.

[tefda]

Do you know the main reason I would disagree with that? The main reason is that your statement would mean the GAME CODE would have to be modified with every update, no matter how small.

 

 

 

Even if it's one line in say the class that controls item mixing, that means the entire item class would have to be recompiled into byte code.

 

 

 

Many JMods have mentioned that Runescape is built on it's own scripting language, meaning that in order to modify anything like that, you don't have to change the game code itself.

 

 

 

They use Runescript (not the bot for IRC but that IS what they call their special RS code). No matter what language they use their going to need to change it, add to it, when they make an update.

 

 

 

Not all items act similar. They undoubtedly have certain classes which dictate what they do, what kind of menu pops up when we right click, the default left click action of it as well. As you'll note all weapons' left click default action is "Wield" their "Uber" default would be "Use".

 

 

 

So what I think they do is send the name of the item you clicked on and sent it through a function to see what kind of item it is (Weapon, Armour, Default, etc.) and based on that the next actions are based on what another Switch statement says. So it could be something like...

 

 

 

Switch(item){

case "water filled vial":

//The second item you click

switch(secondItem){

case "guam":

//Create Guam+Water potion

break;

case "harrlander":

//Etc.

}

}

 

 

 

That's how I see it. I could be very wrong, but I don't know. Also another thing is that even when items are combined in the game (the two halves of the Shield of Arrav for example) they are scripted so and there are actual bits of text that dictate that when you use the left half on the right half you will create that shield.

 

 

 

And lastly "Runescript" is used by the developers to make updating their game EXTREMELY faster. According to what Jagex told us about it, it's an english based, easier to understand, coding system that INTERACTS with JAVA. Runescript is NOT A STANDALONE LANGUAGE it requires Java to work and Java interprets Runescript and acts upon the basic foundations of the game code which does not need to be changed because it's all encompassing.

 

 

 

What I was saying in my previous statement was that there would have to be hundreds, maybe thousands of more secondary switch statements added into the code (whichever half of it (Java or RSscript) I don't know). Along with the fact that these super-powerful potions would be upseting the game balance in some way or another I just don't see Jagex ever making combination potions or anything of that nature.

 

 

 

Yes they DID make "Combination Runes" but that was for two reasons, to help Wizards and to help make it faster to level up Runecrafting (which it did neither but that's another story).

[Esper_Jones]

You missed my point completely.

 

 

 

Can you imagine how many items are in runescape right now? If you think every one of those items is its own separate if statement, you don't realize that games aren't made that way.

 

 

 

I'm sure the code you are referring to would probably be implemented in a way more similar to this:

 

 

 

if (action == USE)

{

// Assume item1 is the first item, item2 is the second item, 

// and you are using item1 on item2

effect = Database.getInteraction(item1, item2);

performEffect(effect);

}

 

 

 

All the code that determines the interaction is stored elsewhere, so that when one item changes, you don't have to rewrite the code.

 

 

 

And somewhere, someone writes in runescript, in a completely separate file:

 

 

 

*Interaction

Item1: Guam Leaf

Item2: Vial of Water

Effect:

Destroy Guam Leaf

Destroy Vial of Water

Add Unfinished Guam Potion

 

 

 

That's probably not what Runescript looks like, but you get the concept, right? Runescript isn't made for making the game faster. It's used for making Content Creation for the game faster - so anyone making a new quest does not need to look at the actual code of Runescape - just to create lots more interactions, dialogue, etc.

 

 

 

Nobody who works on a large project such as RS will ever hardcode anything into the code. Each item in the database has it's own specific menu options, which dictate what it could be used for.

 

 

 

The database is what stores all the interactions, not the code.

[GrimHams]

^ Esper_Jones

 

 

 

I agree with you completely. Im sure the basic concepts are the same.

 

 

 

Jagex would never spend time hardcoding anything new,they would just change or add new variables to existing items.

[kayoszee]

As fun as it would be, a system such as that, you might as well just recode the whole game from the ground up. Anybody without a some sort of background in programming simply cannot understand just how massive something like that REALLY is.

 

 

 

The only game I know which has something close to that is NetHack and has been in consistent developpement for about 20 years, it self a spin-off of an even older game (albeit, the previous one being nothing in terms of scope).

 

 

 

An easier system would be an elemental item combination system, by which I mean each useable item is assigned properties, rules and other important things which allow the combination content to be created on the fly, eliminating the insane amount of content creation necessary to create each possible combination. Couple it with a good RNG system and you would have an impressive item creation system. Note, while I said 'easier', it is nothing to scoff at, such a system takes crazy amount of work.

[Imperial_120]

It would also be nice if you could rename objects. Like get a potion and rename it like " The Imperial Potion" or like renaming a rune battle axe to " Satins Axe" ... But when you trade the item the name turns back to its defult name. That would be a nice update.

[Esper_Jones]

As fun as it would be, a system such as that, you might as well just recode the whole game from the ground up. Anybody without a some sort of background in programming simply cannot understand just how massive something like that REALLY is.

 

 

 

The only game I know which has something close to that is NetHack and has been in consistent developpement for about 20 years, it self a spin-off of an even older game (albeit, the previous one being nothing in terms of scope).

 

 

 

An easier system would be an elemental item combination system, by which I mean each useable item is assigned properties, rules and other important things which allow the combination content to be created on the fly, eliminating the insane amount of content creation necessary to create each possible combination. Couple it with a good RNG system and you would have an impressive item creation system. Note, while I said 'easier', it is nothing to scoff at, such a system takes crazy amount of work.

 

 

 

No, the point is, the system is already in place, the main difficulty with this is the ungodly amount of combinations between the potions.

 

 

 

The problem is the amount of content that needs to be made, not the difficulty of the coding.

[kayoszee]

 

No, the point is, the system is already in place, the main difficulty with this is the ungodly amount of combinations between the potions.

 

 

 

The problem is the amount of content that needs to be made, not the difficulty of the coding.

 

 

 

Did you even READ my post? Sure, Jagex could implement each and every possibility manually, but that would be insane. It would be the pinnacle of sloppy coding, essentially a massive block of if-statements. Difficulty of implementing/coding is ENTIRELY the point here. Only a group of complete idiots would add so much content on top of an engine completely incapable of handling it properly. The only effective way is programming a sort of procedural generation system as described in my last paragraph, anything else is much too impratical, massive in data size and scope of time required.

 

 

 

It would be like trying to move the Great Pyramid with a wheelbarrow, while ignoring the next-door engineer's, complex but effective system of pulleys and levers.

[moneyman5]

that would be an excellent idea. but the idea about stickin nightshade in an attack pot would be creepy :lol: but it would make the game more challenging and more realistic =D>

[heart_of_ink]

So, now buying potions isn't safe anymore? Imagine being in the barrows, up against the final brother, 3 prayer left, about to die, and you drink a stat restore potion to save yourself. Uh-oh! It's poisoned with nightshade! Gah! You lose 3 mil in items.

[elk]

They wouldn't necessarily have to make "combo" potions -- merely adding the two together could cause an "explosion" similar to nitroglycerin... Sure, it could wreak havoc one unsuspecting players, but it could make things a bit more interesting... though I see scams happening a lot. As in:

 

 

 

Scammer: Here man, try using these two pots together - you get 1k herb exp AND you can recharge prayer and boost combat levels...

 

Newb: OKAY!

 

Scammer: *twiddles fingers in Mr. Burns fashion* Exxxxxxcellent.

 

Newb: Oh No, I was hit for 20 hp drain and now I'm dead. *loses items*

 

Scammer: HAHAHAH... I am the COOLEST.

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: Allright now THAT was funny.. But.. yes this would take a long time to implements.. And what would be the use oter than for herblore?

[tomdavies90]

yeah im sure though you'de be the first to moan when

 

 

 

Use Blue Partyhat --> Bowl Of Water...

 

Oh no! The partyhat goes soggy and disintergrates..

 

thats why they limited it

 

and anyway who wants a shield sword

[manatea3O5]

would you want people mixin a regular attack pot, and a super attack pot, and than mixing that with a prayer pot, AND THAN MIXING THAT with a super strength pot and a regular strength pot combonation... It would just own TO hard man...

[ortiz9471]

they couldnt do the potions, simply because there would be an infinite amount of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you mix strength (2) and prayer (2). Drink 2 doses so it's back to 2, then add in an attack (2). Then drink 2 doses add in... etc. It is unlimited possibilities it would literally never end.