Afirmative Action

[Viktorkrum77]

Disclaimer: No, I am not racist in anyway, shape, or form.

 

 

 

But I do feel Afirmative Action is unfair. It is what I call, 'reverse discrimination', a recent trend. I mean, I know rich black people, and I know poor white people. Instead of race, it should be based off your family income. It is already, but I got really ticked off when I read on a college survey, 'Please fill in your race, you may be able to recieve special scholarships'. So I go to fill in white (the majority of America's population is white). I scroll down the list, after about 20 ethnicities I see 'white', the second to last selection next to 'other'. It's minor, but it still got me ticked off. All this trying to promote diversity and equality has lead America into unequality, except it's completley backwards. I don't want to be told I can't say or recieve something based upon my race, something that I can't control in anyway. With goverment money being given away as scholarships aka afirmative action. I am appauled by the fact that it isn't income. Why couldn't the question be, 'Please fill in your familes annual income if you know it, you may be able to recieve special scholarships'.

 

 

 

Anyways, if this thread offends anyone, then just put yourself in the other persons shoes.

[pro28]

Disclaimer: No, I am not racist in anyway, shape, or form.

 

 

 

But I do feel Afirmative Action is unfair. It is what I call, 'reverse discrimination', a recent trend. I mean, I know rich black people, and I know poor white people. Instead of race, it should be based off your family income. It is already, but I got really ticked off when I read on a college survey, 'Please fill in your race, you may be able to recieve special scholarships'. So I go to fill in white (the majority of America's population is white). I scroll down the list, after about 20 ethnicities I see 'white', the second to last selection next to 'other'. It's minor, but it still got me ticked off. All this trying to promote diversity and equality has lead America into unequality, except it's completley backwards. I don't want to be told I can't say or recieve something based upon my race, something that I can't control in anyway. With goverment money being given away as scholarships aka afirmative action. I am appauled by the fact that it isn't income. Why couldn't the question be, 'Please fill in your familes annual income if you know it, you may be able to recieve special scholarships'.

 

 

 

Anyways, if this thread offends anyone, then just put yourself in the other persons shoes.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you, it should be based on family income. Race is kind of hard to test anyways. There are Seniors at my high school who are paying for $250 DNA tests to find if they are partially African American or something...

 

 

 

But Affirmative Action doesn't bug me as much as how you can get into a college with good connections. That is just wrong. The good news it, things will probably change in a few years. Harvard and Princeton already got rid of early admissions. Harvard raised its free tuition bar from 40K to 60K. While those schools may be out of reach for most, other schools will probably follow.

[KCHughes]

It almost seems like more discrimination rather than a correction to discrimination. If I were a minority and was receiving a scholarship or an admission to college solely because I was a minority, I would feel pretty bad. The college just looks at your skin color and not your abilities, which really makes me mad. I would rather be accepted because I deserve it, not because my skin isn't white.

 

 

 

This isn't too much of a problem any more, thanks to a brief and rare flash of wisdom from the Supreme Court, but it's aggravating.

[Hobgoblin11]

Well said. Again, I am not a racist, but I think Britain has gone 'Mulitculture mad'. In the news at te moment, our Hone Secretary, Jack Straw, is being slated by the Muslim community for asking Muslim women to remove their veils that cover all of heir fac except their eyes. He is being targetted because Muslim leaders are saying that it is part of their culture, not their religion, but their culture, and they should not be expected or even asked to take it off. So howcome then, when Westerners go to Arabian countries, we are expected to cover our faces, wear headscarves and not show our legs. If we do so, it is an arrestable offense.

 

 

 

Britain is slowly losing its British heritage - the English people are slowly being oppressed, and we are not allowed to express our culture as freely as the 'minority' groups do. If we try to do so, we are called racist.

 

 

 

Personally, I believe tha the Australians have got it right. If you wish to emmigrate to Australia, you have to take a test to see if you really want to become Australian, you have to take on their culture and not try and impose your culture on them. Afterall, it is their country, if you want to go and live in it, you do so by their rules. It is the same as going to going to stay with a friend - you don't try nd say 'well, I'm going to bed at 12 O'clock because that is what time I play Rnescape until' when the rest pof their household usually turns in at 10 O'clock. You don't declare that you want dinner at 5 O'clock sharp when they usually have it later on. If therest of the world observed the Australians I think it would be a much better place.

[pro28]

Well said. Again, I am not a racist, but I think Britain has gone 'Mulitculture mad'. In the news at te moment, our Hone Secretary, Jack Straw, is being slated by the Muslim community for asking Muslim women to remove their veils that cover all of heir fac except their eyes. He is being targetted because Muslim leaders are saying that it is part of their culture, not their religion, but their culture, and they should not be expected or even asked to take it off. So howcome then, when Westerners go to Arabian countries, we are expected to cover our faces, wear headscarves and not show our legs. If we do so, it is an arrestable offense.

 

/quote]

 

 

 

That's because of the different systems of government. Britain is generally a lot more tolerant of other cultures than Arabian countries.

[1_man_army]

Affirmative Action, in an ideal world wouldn't be needed but this isnt an ideal world. AA is needed in the USA to make up for the history of discrimination that has been felt by many groups ( mainly non-white racial groups, particularly African-Americans). The point many of you seem to be missing is that for many of these groups there has been less access to quality education which therefore limits academic performance, this doesnt mean they are less able, infact many, if they had access to similar high quality education felt by most people in the majority, would have similar academic grades. The purpose of AA is therefore, to put who have the natural abilty to enter college in with others of equal natural ability who have for certain social circumstances, happened to recieve a far higher standard of education thus receiving better grades, AA simply attempts to redress the balance. If there hadnt been such whidespread discrimination in previous years in the US there would be no need for this.

 

 

 

Sorry if that came across as pedantic and repetative but I felt it was important.

 

 

 

------------------

 

 

 

 

Britain is slowly losing its British heritage - the English people are slowly being oppressed, and we are not allowed to express our culture as freely as the 'minority' groups do. If we try to do so, we are called racist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I found it interesting how in the space of 6 words you went from British to English. Your feelings of alienation with the government in a way reflects how many Scottish people feel, as being the "bastard child" of Britain, note - the poll tax experiment, north sea oil revenue vs. Scottish spending & Highland Clearances.

[Viktorkrum77]

Affirmative Action, in an ideal world wouldn't be needed but this isnt an ideal world. AA is needed in the USA to make up for the history of discrimination that has been felt by many groups ( mainly non-white racial groups, particularly African-Americans). The point many of you seem to be missing is that for many of these groups there has been less access to quality education which therefore limits academic performance, this doesnt mean they are less able, infact many, if they had access to similar high quality education felt by most people in the majority, would have similar academic grades. The purpose of AA is therefore, to put who have the natural abilty to enter college in with others of equal natural ability who have for certain social circumstances, happened to recieve a far higher standard of education thus receiving better grades, AA simply attempts to redress the balance. If there hadnt been such whidespread discrimination in previous years in the US there would be no need for this.

 

 

 

Sorry if that came across as pedantic and repetative but I felt it was important.

 

 

 

Well, in todays world, at least in todays America, school should be equal. Our school system is corrupt, and it isn't because of race, it is corrupt because of funding, and the goverment. People in lower income areas, have worse schools, and some of the damage effecting the schools is caused by the kids attending, and their background. Higher end schools are mostly private, and the ones that are not, are situated in wealthy areas. This therefore means, that the education you get, even though it should be equal, is based entirely upon your wealth stautes, your income.

 

 

 

Another reason why America is a Plutocracy.

[Astralinre]

The purpose of AA is therefore, to put who have the natural abilty to enter college in with others of equal natural ability who have for certain social circumstances, happened to recieve a far higher standard of education thus receiving better grades, AA simply attempts to redress the balance. If there hadnt been such whidespread discrimination in previous years in the US there would be no need for this.

 

 

 

The problem is that Affirmative Action doesn't always put people of equal ability of the same level. Instead, it places someone of less natural ability above someone else simply because of his race.

 

 

 

Affirmative Action has done plenty of good. I know plenty of very intelligent people who could not have gone to college without that money. My problem is when AA oversteps its bounds, discriminating against the majority instead of merely helping minorities.

 

 

 

Viktor, it seems we're finally on the same side of a debate. :P

[Viktorkrum77]

Viktor, it seems we're finally on the same side of a debate. :P

 

 

 

:shock: Yep, it's the apocolypse. :P

[pro28]

Affirmative Action, in an ideal world wouldn't be needed but this isnt an ideal world. AA is needed in the USA to make up for the history of discrimination that has been felt by many groups ( mainly non-white racial groups, particularly African-Americans). The point many of you seem to be missing is that for many of these groups there has been less access to quality education which therefore limits academic performance, this doesnt mean they are less able, infact many, if they had access to similar high quality education felt by most people in the majority, would have similar academic grades. The purpose of AA is therefore, to put who have the natural abilty to enter college in with others of equal natural ability who have for certain social circumstances, happened to recieve a far higher standard of education thus receiving better grades, AA simply attempts to redress the balance. If there hadnt been such whidespread discrimination in previous years in the US there would be no need for this.

 

 

 

Sorry if that came across as pedantic and repetative but I felt it was important.

 

 

 

 

The thing is, African Americans can get access to good education. It has nothing to do with race, but with income. Most African Americans are poorer than their white peers, hence they have lower grades and worse educations. Affirmative Action leaves out other low income families because of their race. It's better to help the poor in general, not just minorities.

[1_man_army]

Affirmative Action, in an ideal world wouldn't be needed but this isnt an ideal world. AA is needed in the USA to make up for the history of discrimination that has been felt by many groups ( mainly non-white racial groups, particularly African-Americans). The point many of you seem to be missing is that for many of these groups there has been less access to quality education which therefore limits academic performance, this doesnt mean they are less able, infact many, if they had access to similar high quality education felt by most people in the majority, would have similar academic grades. The purpose of AA is therefore, to put who have the natural abilty to enter college in with others of equal natural ability who have for certain social circumstances, happened to recieve a far higher standard of education thus receiving better grades, AA simply attempts to redress the balance. If there hadnt been such whidespread discrimination in previous years in the US there would be no need for this.

 

 

 

Sorry if that came across as pedantic and repetative but I felt it was important.

 

 

 

Well, in todays world, at least in todays America, school should be equal. Our school system is corrupt, and it isn't because of race, it is corrupt because of funding, and the goverment. People in lower income areas, have worse schools, and some of the damage effecting the schools is caused by the kids attending, and their background. Higher end schools are mostly private, and the ones that are not, are situated in wealthy areas. This therefore means, that the education you get, even though it should be equal, is based entirely upon your wealth stautes, your income.

 

 

 

Another reason why America is a Plutocracy.

 

 

 

I do agree that AA should possibly be broadened to accomodate income rather tha race. However, I believe the thinking behind leaving it as a racial policy is that many minority are disproportianatly poor compared to other groups. I think thats reflected in the fact that the top private schools are almost exclusivly made up of white children. I do however, see where you're coming from and sympathise to some extent.

[jak722]

1 in 3 americans today is not white apparently.

[Viktorkrum77]

1 in 3 americans today is not white apparently.

 

 

 

http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/05/uninsured-cps/fig6.gif

 

 

 

This graph, census 2005, proves otherwise.

[jak722]

That graph says "Diabetes"...

[Viktorkrum77]

That graph says "Diabetes"...

 

 

 

:oops: Nevermind that graph. But the other is correct.

[jak722]

That graph says "Diabetes"...

 

 

 

:oops: Nevermind that graph. But the other is correct.

 

 

 

Lol yeah, but I saw a recent news article (about a week ago give or take) in yahoo that says in 2006, that was the ratio. :-k

[Viktorkrum77]

That graph says "Diabetes"...

 

 

 

:oops: Nevermind that graph. But the other is correct.

 

 

 

Lol yeah, but I saw a recent news article (about a week ago give or take) in yahoo that says in 2006, that was the ratio. :-k

 

 

 

Dang, then the population is growing fast. Do you have a link?

[pro28]

That graph says "Diabetes"...

 

 

 

:oops: Nevermind that graph. But the other is correct.

 

 

 

Lol yeah, but I saw a recent news article (about a week ago give or take) in yahoo that says in 2006, that was the ratio. :-k

 

 

 

Dang, then the population is growing fast. Do you have a link?

 

 

 

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/displ ... f0.2887079

[unknownmasterofnothing]

I would say its a misuse of history, instead of stopping genocides, we do this.

 

Their ancestors were around a long time ago, using the past to start wars or to treat people differently isn't the way to go. Thats why I kinda dislike history. A lot of people dislike the japanese, even though it was their ancestors who did their deeds and not them. Theres a lot more examples but I'm tired.

 

 

 

Also, I know a lot of chinese ppl who said free rides on the train would be fair because of affirmative action. But as jokes.

[jak722]

That graph says "Diabetes"...

 

 

 

:oops: Nevermind that graph. But the other is correct.

 

 

 

Lol yeah, but I saw a recent news article (about a week ago give or take) in yahoo that says in 2006, that was the ratio. :-k

 

 

 

Dang, then the population is growing fast. Do you have a link?

 

 

 

Yup, I found it just now:

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061001/lf ... 1001190428

 

 

 

 

The US population, which is set to hit the 300-million mark in October, is one third minorities, with one in three people either Hispanic, black, Asian or, less often, indigenous Native Americans.

 

 

 

Minorities account for 33 percent (98 million) of the population, according to US

 

Census Bureau figures from 2005, when the US population stood at 296.4 million people.

 

 

 

Immigrants for their part represent 12.4 percent of the population, or 35.7 million people, compared to 2000 when they made up 11.2 percent of the population.

 

 

 

Edit, Pro you're confusing me! :wall:

[pro28]

 

 

 

Edit, Pro you're confusing me! :wall:

 

 

 

No, you are confusing me...

 

 

 

:lol:

[____]

I'm not a big fan of AA either. The concept of was, good using only race is what makes it fail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And in regards to 'Australia having it right'; that's highly questionable. We're perhaps one of the most multi-cultural countries in the world and generally we have no problems with people of other cultures. The comments about 'if you live here you should adopt the Australia way of life' comments and such were more directed at immigrants who were coming here and attacking the Australian culture and such.

 

 

 

By all means, live here. But if those people want to have a spat about the country they live it and attack it's culture, policies, etc - they should get the hell out and go back to where they came from.

[RebelAssassin]

 

 

 

Personally, I believe tha the Australians have got it right. If you wish to emmigrate to Australia, you have to take a test to see if you really want to become Australian, you have to take on their culture and not try and impose your culture on them. Afterall, it is their country, if you want to go and live in it, you do so by their rules. It is the same as going to going to stay with a friend - you don't try nd say 'well, I'm going to bed at 12 O'clock because that is what time I play Rnescape until' when the rest pof their household usually turns in at 10 O'clock. You don't declare that you want dinner at 5 O'clock sharp when they usually have it later on. If therest of the world observed the Australians I think it would be a much better place.

 

 

 

ive been wanting to move to Australia for years now, ever since this whole mulitculture thing started to get out of hand.

[mad4u689]

Mmm, I used to very much agree with you, before I got to college.

 

 

 

However, now that I'm in college, I have to admit how much I've benefitted from going to a diverse campus and being bombarded with different perspectives. I've grown a lot as a person, and I don't think the effect would have been the same if there were more equally qualified, but upper middle class white students.

 

 

 

The intention of affirmative action is two-fold: one, to make up for the (very real) inequalities in opportunity among different races and ethnicities, and two, to build a community where there is a diversity of opinion. The first intention is, I feel, more controversial than the latter. I haven't quite figured out how I feel about this first intention :)

[caligula101]

Different perspectives, that's not the point of university. The point is to learn new things and expand your intelligence. I don't want to go to a place with people that have only been let in because of their skin colour. I'd much rather go to somewhere because they have deserved to get in, not in the name of an ethnic quota. Let's face it if a 100 students want to go to university, there were only 50 places however. At the top of the list are 50 white upper middle class as you put it, students. However futher down the line are some asian students, oh wait sorry for 20 of those white guys, we have to fill your places with people less intelligent than you to make the univeristy look better.

 

 

 

That is a serious problem, its not helping inequalities in race, it's pushing them much further apart.