Proposal 2 has passed, with a large margin to boot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.oneunitedmichigan.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, measures like this have passed before in 2 other states, but here in Michigan, we like to do things with even more ignorant insanity than your lousy state.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats to all those that supported and voted for proposal 2- diversity is overrated anyways.

Owie... literally...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That sucks... michigan now, like you said, is pretty stupid for voting for that.

They lost me at "affirmative action".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As an immigrant, I feel that the whole concept of affirmative action and all the politically correct crap it entails is, on the whole, a pointless and condescending idea. People will accept immigrants if they want to or not, and ethnic minorities have a responsibility to work as hard as anyone else. Affirmative action is, to me, just another way of saying "your race sucks, here's some help."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, we've got it right here in Australia. You get a fair go, as long as you can be bothered to.

Not dumbest state. You got it all wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's more of a sexist and racist state...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What the full document of Prop 2? Surely I don't think people said yes just because of gender and race. What are the benefits of prop 2, or the "cover" it has.

I am all for giving people a fair shake but affirmitive action is the most unconstitutional load of crud that I have ever laid eyes on. "The law does not see sex, religon, color, creed, etc.... unless of course you want a job." EVERYTHING in the world should go to whomever deserved it the most. Period. This is supposed to be a step forward for racial/sexual equality but it is a massive step in the opposite direction. Other than the very few biological differences between race/sex (people of African decent are much more likely to be afflicted by sickle cell anemia and there is not much of a need for men to get pap smears for example) race should not even be addressed. We are all people. Period. Jobs should go to the best individual for the position be they black, white, female, male, pink, purple, left-handed or right. I view this as one of the largest failings of our nation and still have no clue how it is even justifiable in court.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drop me a pm if somebody wants a response because I will be trying to forget this thread and the mockery that is Affirmitive Action. It (not this thread) is an insult to everybody equally.

People always seem to complain about being different or singled out because of their race/religion/gender, but when it's something good, they feel happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But still, either way you still single yourself out good or bad. Everyone should have the same chances, not an extra boost just because you don't know alot of English [or something of that matter].

Yeah I can't believe just about every action our voters took yesterday. I guess the people of this state/nation should be careful what they wish for. #-o

I voted NO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

don't look at me.

I'd consider all discussions of affirmative action's constitutionality a moot point considering the Constitution was written when slavery was legal. We the people, except blacks.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before i start into everyone that disagreed with me, I would like to point out that I agree that race doesn't exist as a biolgical distinction, but as a social construct. It's there, it'll probably never go away, get used to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Additionally, I would like to point out a key statistic from Michigans exit polls: A massive percentage (60%+) of voters who said their families were getting ahead economically said they were voting FOR Proposal 2, and a massive percentage (60%+) of those who said they were getting behind economically said they were voting AGAINST proposal 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This post addresses the 2 key arguments behind "affirmative action bad".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They say: 1) Affirmative action gives an unfair advantage to minorities

 

 

 

or 2) Affirmative action is good, but outdated and thusly useless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) An argument that affirmative action gives minorities an unfair advantage assumes that all races are currently on an even playing field. That assumption is of course, complete and utter BS. For example, I will compare blacks and whites.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From CNN in 2003:

 

 

 

The poverty rate of of African Americans remained nearly twice the national rate, with 24.4 percent of blacks living below the poverty line in 2003, slightly higher from 24.1 percent a year earlier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From a study done by Cornell University:

 

 

 

By age 30, according to the report, one-third of black Americans will have spent at least one year of their adult life in dire poverty, rising to about 50 percent by age 45 and more than 66 percent by age 75. In contrast, only 26.6 percent of white Americans will have lived at the dire-poverty level by the age of 75.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) The argument that affirmative action is outdated is also of course based on the previous assumption, that minorities are somehow on an even footing with white americans. That is also complete BS, because it assumes a lack of racism in multiple levels of American society. The whole argument that "no one discriminates based on race anymore because its illegal" is so wrong it makes my blood boil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a thought: Do you actually think that a white employer, given a chance between a potential black employee and a white employee, with the EXACT same credentials, will employ each of the 50% of the time, all the time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the responses on this thread are making me legitimately angry.

you have every right to be angry chris its a free country. the people of michigan decided that afarmative action must go for sevrall resons. it was their decision and in a democracy it must be respected and adhered to. you presume that minoritys are discrimatnated against and that may be true. but just becouse a small minority of the american people may discramanate against minoritys dose not meen that the goverment should step in and enforce a unconstatutional set of rules apon everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

freedome of choice is a very important right and I for one belive the goverment has no right to take that away from lawfull citizens. so if you asked me it is about time the people are alowed to hire whoever they please without fear from their own goverment.

Bufoman's arguments:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Affirmative action is Unconstitutional

 

 

 

2) People should hire whoever they please

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Like i said above, all comparisons to a document that AFFIRMED the slave trade are ironic and moot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) People hired whoever they pleased in the 1950s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And saying that we should respect what the majority says justifies

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) The war in Iraq

 

 

 

2) The Patriot Act

 

 

 

3) The invasion of Afghanistan

 

 

 

4) Segregation

 

 

 

5) Counting a slave as 3/5ths of a person

Could somebody explain to me what "Affirmative action" and "Proposal 2" is? I'm curious. :)

Affirmative Action:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_Action

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proposal 2:

 

 

 

http://www.oneunitedmichigan.org/pdf/ap ... nguage.pdf

afirmed the slave trade? what are you talking about? do you aculy belive that the american people should be made to pay for somthing their great great grandfather may have done? while wher on that note why not pay reperations with intrest to every descendent of a former slave in this country. and who do you think will be paying for that? the son should never be made to pay for the sins of the father.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and you say that we where bad off in the 1950's? injustices have always existid since the begining of the human race. but today the playing feild is more than leveld. for instance the majority of white tenagers praticaly worship black rap stars. if they are racists I am a librial.

You clearly didn't understand my ironic statement about the constitution, and your baseless argument about the playing field being level are answered above.

baseless? your argument comes from one news report from cnn and anouther is a quote from someone. my argument is not going into details which would make alot of people angry (and can be found on varios goverment sites) but instead choses to use common knoledge and simple logic. now unless you have somthing else to say I belive I have just won this debate by a landslide.

1) You're amazingly pathetic if the only reason you were arguing with me about something like this is because you wanted to win

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Yep, still baseless

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Oh yeah, arguing to win....congratulations. You're just so amazing.

ahh the typical libral response when they lose a debate. but you forgot to call me a racest. oh well I had fun anyways.

ahh the typical libral response when they lose a debate. but you forgot to call me a racest. oh well I had fun anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for making those of us with actual opinions on this matter look bad by resorting to flaming and idiocy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't have something good to contribute to a topic, do not post it! Lest you start some flame war.

So you think Affirmative Action should have been kept?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, race is everything. Us minorities sure can't do anything right, can we? Nope, we need the government to help us...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look, race is nothing. The only factor that will hinder your academic achievements is economic status. No matter what race you are, if you are living in poverty, there is a good chance that you'll never be able to break out of it. Affirmative Action only helps a part of these people, is that really fair?

You are correct that it's because of economic status, pro, but i'd rather have affirmative action because

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Since a majority of those living near, at or below the poverty line are minorities, affirmative action affects MOST of them

 

 

 

2) It's definitely MUCH better than nothing

You are correct that it's because of economic status, pro, but i'd rather have affirmative action because

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Since a majority of those living near, at or below the poverty line are minorities, affirmative action affects MOST of them

 

 

 

2) It's definitely MUCH better than nothing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why not base it on economic status, rather than race then?

Because that would only apply to things like university admissions, not things like employment (since the person you're hiring is unemployed and thus has no income anyways).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to mention that discrimination in the workplace still exists despite its illegality, and affirmative action helps counter that.

I didn't know that Affirmative Action applied to things other than university admissions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But even so, how would Affirmative Action help counter discrimination in the workplace? If someone got a job through Affirmative Action, wouldn't others just look down on them in contempt?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I see it, Affirmative Action seems to screw over poor whites and Asians.

1) I'm asian, and I definitely thought it sucked that I didn't get the extra 20pts on my application at the University of Michigan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) The whole "they'll be looked down on" thing just means that it won't be easy- but since was racial progress ever easy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

affirmative action gives a boost to a group of people, and the fact that it doesn't give a boost to everyone that needs it doesn't mean it should be axed. Saying that is like saying curing hepatitis C is bad because it doesn't cure Hepatitis B.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And actually, the average asian household income is significantly higher than that of any other race.