Do you believe in God?

[SkyIsTheLimit]

Nop, unfortunatly nop

[Zealot]

 

 

 

 

The one thing that you miss is that Jesus said, "If you love me you will do as I command." A murderer can be redeemed, as can an adulterer, lier, thief, or any of the rest of us wretches... There is no such thing as a sin that God is unwilling to forgive, save one... Refusing to allow Christ to change your life is, in God's eyes, unforgivable. It's called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. No, you can not continue with your old ways (or as you imply be even worse :shock: ) and be forgiven. It simply isn't possible, once you've experienced God's overwhelming grace and love, to ever turn back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If its impossible how did satan achieve it?

 

 

 

or If satan never experienced gods grace and love, is that to say he never lived in heaven or was never created perfect in the beginning?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Being created perfect does not guarantee that one will understand. In his free will, satan chose pride. He thought that he was better then God, that for some reason, he desirved his worship more then his Creator. Satan missed the point. Though he was created perfect, he refused to truely experience God's love.

 

 

 

I'll conceed that there are people who claim to have experienced God's grace, but there's no new fruit there (Points to sig) but I would argue, from personal experience, that these people have missed the point entirely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe its you missing the point. These people believed they "felt god", but new information lead them to believe otherwise. So its true saying they never experienced gods grace, it didn't exist to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll still mantain that they never knew Him, or they wouldn't have left Him. What I'm talking about goes beyond emotion, and beyond intellect. It goes far beyond anything that can be explained. Emotion and intellect are both involved, but they play minor roles. God's grace is a dynamic force that leads to a transformation. I, quite litterally, am not the same person that I was five years ago, before He called me. Since you did not know me then, and know me only by what I write now, you can not truely comprehend the change that has happened. I am, in many ways, proof that a murderer can be redeemed, that a thief can have hope. I am living proof that no matter what muck you wade through, once you allow Him too, Christ can make you clean. I'm not proud of what I was, what I had allowed myself to become. Nor could I have changed on my own. God knows I tried. All the glory for this incredible change goes to HIM. And it excites me to know that He's only beginning :D

[Death_By_Pod]

 

How was God created?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If God created time, then we can say that He exists outside of its influence. You only have a "beginning" or "end" within time, so God just was. It's tough to think about, but pretty reasonable too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you think it is reasonable that god existed outside of time (God just was), wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t it be just AS REASONABLE that the universe, just was?

 

 

 

Using your reasoning god and the universe are exactly the same thing (however since the universe has matter, the illusion of time takes effect).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time would not exist without the physical universe, therefore how would god be able to exist if he would be able to regulate any thought processes (as time does not move in a direction, or any matter exist to regulate such thoughts due to a lack of universe)?

 

 

 

Are you saying that god is an energy-less object that is capable of creating energy in non existent spaces?

 

 

 

There are no reasonable explanations for these anomalies you may as well replace god with any other crazy idea you want because it makes just as much sense.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

There are some christian homosexual priests and women priests too, why is it a sin? I don't know about worshipping Mary, but I suggest you to read the earlier posts on this thread. 'Sin' is defined by the society. In ancient Greece, it used to be totally normal to be homosexual. Nowadays, since it's a minority group, it's "not accepted".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would bet anything that if homosexuals would represent a large majority of the population (because of the physical impossibility of having so many gender people in the world, for arguement's sake say they're bisexual) churches would accept them because they need followers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or doesn't God love the people who have different sexual likings? I'm "straight" myself, but people that are homosexual are usually born that way (hormonal unbalances etc.). It is very hard to become a homosexual by your own choice (though for some reason I don't know female persons become homosexuals more often according to research).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems strange to me that the christian church accepts murder and crime as long as the person will 'accept Jesus in his heart', but normal people that just happen to have different sexual preferences are 'sinners'. Doesn't sound like a loving community representing God, it seems like a hateful community with low self-esteem that need to harass everybody who is different, just like pre-teenagers except that they're adults.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The church or the Bible can say anything it wants, but since it's not written by God it can only be assumed to be a book of philosophy written by philosopher's inspired by a God. They used to be rules in the ancient world because the common people couldn't even read back then and they were in common a bit less intelligent, they just worked as farmers all their life and died. Nowadays, there are 1 billion atheists in the world which is 1/6 of all people. I don't wonder why, since the churches are becoming more and more commercial and the church is forgetting the whole point of the religion, which is supposed to be love and caring of other people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dont even make me get my bible and find 10+ different verses that says HOMESEXUALITY IS IMMORAL AND WRONG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and as for the mary worship...Johny hit the nail on the head...its idol worship...she should be recognized....but not worshipped

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and as for the writing....its not called THE WORD OF GOD for no reason senor :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and to all you people who feel we were brainwashed...think again

 

 

 

it's not like this was forced upon us....it was our own choice

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How does THE WORD OF GOD get communicated from God (outside this universe and real existence), to us (Living inside the universe and abide by a SET OF PHYSICAL LAWS)? It just is not possible to communicate a message from God to us.

[sengkin]

This was an amazing topic back on Scapeboard... let it be reborn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it was? and no i dotn believe in gods but i believe in if u work hard u'll suceed

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

I believe:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-That the Universe could not have been created 'just like that'.

 

 

 

-That it must have been created by a superior being.

 

 

 

VERY good point youve hit on their, but i have one question to ask you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How was God created?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A very good question... After all, how can it be that something that exists independant of time, can be created? How can that which is non-temporal have a temporal property such as a beginning?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It simply isn't possible for the God of the Bible (who exists apart from time) to posess the quality of being created.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Psycho hit on a very significant point though. The complexity and precision of the coding of DNA for example, is far greater then any language that has ever been spoken by a human being; The human brain is capable of trillions and trillions of times more calculations per second then the most advanced super-computers in the world; flagellum are capable of spinning hundreds of times faster then the most advanced internal combustion engines in existance-- but are also capable of reversing instantly... yet there is no way that they can be simplified and still funcion at all. This universe, which is supposed to be moving toward a state of chaos, is full of these instances of ordering far beyond what humanity is capable of. But how is that possible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only force that I'm aware of that has been observed to be capable of bringing order out of chaos is intelligence. So based on that fact alone, it is reasonable, observing the many cases of complex ordering in the universe, (which is supposed to be moving toward total dissorder) to conclude that it came from intelligence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then there's this incredibley fascinating twist called the "Big Bang Theory" Which says that space and time had a beginning in the distant past. What caused it? Everything that has a beginning has to have a cause, so what is the universes cause? Why is it here??? Theories abound, but evidence is strangely lacking from all of them. (which is why the majority of physicists are called theoretical physicists now... for the past thirty years or so, their theories have outstripped actual research) In fact, many scientific theories never will be able to be empirically examined... They simply deal with realms that are either too small to detect, or simply not available for examination in the three spatial dimensions we occupy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi I have a couple of answers to a few of your questions, there is a force that can bring order out of chaos, and itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s called Gravity surprisingly enough. However gravity originally helped create chaos in the early universe (by repulsive force) but it is now working in our favour by keeping matter clumped together (which is the reason why planets, stars and humans exist). This clumping of matter is a decrease in chaos and an increase in order (however overall entropy increases as we emit radiation therefore the law is not broken). If the Critical mass density of the universe is exceeded (which I have a feeling it is, with all the new dark matter ideas being conceived) then the universe will slowly accelerate into itself and eventually cause a new big bang with a new universe. This is gravity to the extreme, working to reset itself.

 

 

 

Another form of creating order for this example is a star (you can replace it with anything really, but things such as glass blowing require intelligence so I'm not going to use it as an example). When a star runs out of fuel it may turn supernova and explode into a zillion pieces therefore increasing chaos. But gravity slowly collects all the pieces and turns it into a large mass again. The pressure of this large mass with light it up like a furnace which in other words is a new star, therefore turning chaos back into order again (However the supernova explosion creates radiation so there is a loss of energy and an increase in entropy, so it does not break any laws).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your other question concerning the "big bang theory" can also be answered (you sound awfully like Fred Hoyle, but he is dead now and was proved wrong). It is a Point Particle Theory, which is based on classical theory which has been proven wrong (it is still taught in schools because it is easy to understand and very accurate for what we need it for in our everyday lives). You hear that? All the Laws of classical physics that you believe in to exist are wrong! Then what really are the laws?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s what we are working on at the moment; the reason why everything is a "theory" is because we have only been working on them over the past decade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is also true that we may not be able to currently confirm quite a few theories because we lack the technology to resolve at such tiny levels theoretical physics works on. However our technological curve is growing upwards at quite a fast pace and should become increasingly closer to test theories in your lifetime. There is a super collider being constructed at CERN that will be able to test the LOWER LIMITS of string theory (it is unlikely that we will see anything interesting however it is within theoretical reach). It will also produce new exotic materials and possibly S-Particles and Gravitons which will help our current theories cause even more. Try to describe to Jesus what a computer is and how it runs or to a citizen living in the 50's what a space elevator is and how it runs and they will both look completely confused, Yet we understand what they are and how they operate today. Give it time and eventually all will become clear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your views on todayÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s science are rather insulting, claiming science really has no reason to continue on its crazy path of unprovable ideas. What most people donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t understand is that many theories carry a symmetry that works in such elegance and beauty that it seems wrong to question the validity of it. Much Like the marvel of nature, our theories that are being produced replicate similar mathematical beauties that we only see in nature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now on the more important aspect of your Big bang question;

 

 

 

Does it have a beginning and an end?

 

 

 

A fairly popular view on Big Bang shows that there is NO Beginning and End. The universe pulses much like a heart, it grows from a tiny clump to what it is today. It slows down then eventually starts to pull back on itself shrinking down to the tiny clump and ultimately repulses back into a new universe, with this cycle continuing endlessly.

[Death_By_Pod]

Ohh as a side note anyone that is interested in learning a bit about modern science can visit this website which contains information and the entire T.V series based on Brian Greene's book The Elegant Universe.

 

 

 

The site talks about Gravity and modern theories and what it all means.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

[sonsie]

 

How was God created?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If God created time, then we can say that He exists outside of its influence. You only have a "beginning" or "end" within time, so God just was. It's tough to think about, but pretty reasonable too.

 

 

 

I do believe thats the biggest cop out of an answer ever.

[HugATree]

 

 

 

I'll still mantain that they never knew Him, or they wouldn't have left Him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then the accounts of the Israelites leaving Gods ways in OT are all lies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I'm talking about goes beyond emotion, and beyond intellect. It goes far beyond anything that can be explained. Emotion and intellect are both involved, but they play minor roles. God's grace is a dynamic force that leads to a transformation. I, quite litterally, am not the same person that I was five years ago, before He called me. Since you did not know me then, and know me only by what I write now, you can not truely comprehend the change that has happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But ironically you pretend to understand what goes on in the minds of others.

[HugATree]

 

How was God created?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If God created time, then we can say that He exists outside of its influence. You only have a "beginning" or "end" within time, so God just was. It's tough to think about, but pretty reasonable too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is just a rip off most scientific theories. Anyway the big bang theory doesn't claim it came from nothing, its very unlikely even impossible there was a point when nothing existed.

[The_Source]

There can't be nothingness, there is always something there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Big Bang says that there was all the matter or whatever packed into a tiny tiny tiny space, and it exploded, la de da, universe created, lalala...I don't believe it anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the universe was always there, as to say the universe is just the black darkness of space, and it is probably spherical, thus why there is no end to it..Like everything in space is spherical, planets, stars, some galaxies, etc..I could only guess the universe is as well. :P There couldn't be an end to it, if we were to travel even 1 mile per hour faster than the speed of light, we could launch a space craft to the end of the universe to see what's "not there", and since nothing doesn't exsist, I don't know what it could run into. :P But we can't go fast than light, so yea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Umm...It's all very confusing. However I'm open minded to God exsisting, but I also believe in Science. Only a fool would believe in just God alone. It's more logical to believe in science anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do I believe in God? Sure.

[T-Roach]

to say it simply, yes

[da]

i believe in god!

[hammerhand]

I believe in God for several reasons

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. I cannot comprhend the idea of existance ending, in which case you never existed but you did. Huh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. There has been physical evidence found of events in the bible (Even the remains of chariots at the bottom of the red sea)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Several coincidences in my own life that seem a little to good to happen by chance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. The Big bang theroy fails to explain why it occured.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So their you have it.

[Mercifull]

1. I cannot comprhend the idea of existance ending, in which case you never existed but you did. Huh?

 

 

 

but you can comprehend that life begins at birth? like with 2 people a man and a woman....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. There has been physical evidence found of events in the bible (Even the remains of chariots at the bottom of the red sea)

lol if there was physical evidence like that then wed all be christians. there are remains of pots and pans all over the place. the chariots probably fell off a ship or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Several coincidences in my own life that seem a little to good to happen by chance.

 

 

 

ahh the whole "miricle" debate. Who decides what is a miricle and what just happens. If somebody has cancer and is cured is that a miricle of god? Or is it a feat of humanity that we can find a cure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. The Big bang theroy fails to explain why it occured.

the bible doesnt explain how god came to be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know what i find particularly sad about christians expecially is their all talk no action stance on life....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a homless guy near me who sits on the bridge. Ive seen people go up to him and say things like "god bless you" or "i will pray you find a home soon". What good does that do? Hes still there everyday, still homeless.

 

 

 

The otherday i bought him a hot pie to eat. Now tell me whats better, me giving him some food. Or some guy praying for him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i did for him wasnt christian, it didnt do it out of love for jesus or any rubbish like that, i didnt do it because i want to be good and get into heaven. I did it because i am a nice person and he was hungry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So god can smite me all he wants, im still a better person than you!

[JohnnySmum]

You know what i find particularly sad about christians expecially is their all talk no action stance on life....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some Christians don't do as much practical work as perhaps they should, I agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a homless guy near me who sits on the bridge. Ive seen people go up to him and say things like "god bless you" or "i will pray you find a home soon". What good does that do? Hes still there everyday, still homeless.

 

 

 

The otherday i bought him a hot pie to eat. Now tell me whats better, me giving him some food. Or some guy praying for him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very similar in idea to thses Bible verses:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i did for him wasnt christian, it didnt do it out of love for jesus or any rubbish like that, i didnt do it because i want to be good and get into heaven. I did it because i am a nice person and he was hungry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You didn't do it for any Christian beliefs, but what you did was Christian. Your analysis of some Christians who don't do as they preach is a good one, as you see in those verses I quoted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So god can smite me all he wants, im still a better person than you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's debatable ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How was God created?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If God created time, then we can say that He exists outside of its influence. You only have a "beginning" or "end" within time, so God just was. It's tough to think about, but pretty reasonable too.

 

 

 

I do believe thats the biggest cop out of an answer ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How come?

[Herr]

You didn't do it for any Christian beliefs, but what you did was Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians didn't invent morals, what he did was charitable and your saying that even though he's not a christian his action was christian implies that they did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a bit selfish to call any selfless act or 'good deed' christian, because whilst it may be what you'd do because of your christian values (the morals the religion chose to teach) it does not mean that the action itself was christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A christian action may be a good action, but a good action is by no means a christian action.

[JohnnySmum]

Christians didn't invent morals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd disagree: God's character defines morality. Being God-like is moral, and conversely, being ungodly is immoral. Christians didn't invent the morals, but they are the people that are supposed to follow them. Technically, Matt giving food to the poor man was the Godly thing to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a bit selfish to call any selfless act or 'good deed' christian, because whilst it may be what you'd do because of your christian values (the morals the religion chose to teach) it does not mean that the action itself was christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll try to use an analogy to help make my point. A person writing a poem could use literary devices such as metaphors without knowing so. The fact that the person didn't know he was doing so doesn't change the reality that what he did was use a metaphor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the same way, ungodly people can still do godly things, regardless of whether they did them to fulfill God's moral code or not.

[cjlhdevil]

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There ya go its official.

[Guest Durden]

In the same way, ungodly people can still do godly things, regardless of whether they did them to fulfill God's moral code or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And conversly couldn't godly people do the opposite? Satanist acts if you will. Therefore balancing out the two greater and lesser equals leaving 1 defined equal state of life.

[JohnnySmum]

 

In the same way, ungodly people can still do godly things, regardless of whether they did them to fulfill God's moral code or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And conversly couldn't godly people do the opposite? Satanist acts if you will. Therefore balancing out the two greater and lesser equals leaving 1 defined equal state of life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Godly people can still do ungodly things, but I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Satanism and equal state of life?

[Herr]

I believe you have contradicted yourself slightly there, because by saying that the godly thing to do is give food - how come there are people starving in the world? Surely if it's in god's character to give food to a hungry person then, being god and all, he'd have done it. Or is he like alot of christians and doesn't practice what he preaches?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes this next bit is stating the obvious but I must to illustrate my point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christianity is a religion. It is based on a man dying 2000 years ago - before that there was no christianity. You may argue that there was a god, but there was no religion. The religion is based on this man dying 'for our sins', so before 0CE there was no christianity. That would make your claim that things done without knowledge still being christian invalid, because they were still done before the religion was founded.

[Guest Durden]

 

 

In the same way, ungodly people can still do godly things, regardless of whether they did them to fulfill God's moral code or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And conversly couldn't godly people do the opposite? Satanist acts if you will. Therefore balancing out the two greater and lesser equals leaving 1 defined equal state of life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Godly people can still do ungodly things, but I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Satanism and equal state of life?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well if God is at one end of the spectrum then Satan must be at the other. And if you have aspects of both then you must be in the middle which is surely atheism?

[HugATree]

Christianity is a religion. It is based on a man dying 2000 years ago - before that there was no christianity. You may argue that there was a god, but there was no religion. The religion is based on this man dying 'for our sins', so before 0CE there was no christianity. That would make your claim that things done without knowledge still being christian invalid, because they were still done before the religion was founded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christianity claims to be the successor of Judaism.

 

 

 

Although from the perspective of many jews, christianity is blasphemy, contradicting and takes their scriptures out of context, or mis-quotes them.

[Pete_the_Viscous]

It's a bit selfish to call any selfless act or 'good deed' christian, because whilst it may be what you'd do because of your christian values (the morals the religion chose to teach) it does not mean that the action itself was christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll try to use an analogy to help make my point. A person writing a poem could use literary devices such as metaphors without knowing so. The fact that the person didn't know he was doing so doesn't change the reality that what he did was use a metaphor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the same way, ungodly people can still do godly things, regardless of whether they did them to fulfill God's moral code or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still, if I were to abhor all the abrahamic religions, believing them to be heretical to my new.... Petaeism, (pete, the all father, the omniscient, the...) and decided that the tenets of the faith required the followers to all gather round the may pole, chanting, all the while evangelising to the onlookers it would share some aspect of the Christian tendancies. But as the rest of the religion might be heavily based on the sacrifising of virgins/goats/expensive-computer-components to the allfather, I might take offence at my actions being likened to that of a Christian. Just the same, it might not be correct to call actions that anyone with similar morals would perform Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not as if Jews and Muslims are bad people (obviously some are, but then again, so are some atheists,) and so, why should it be Christian as opposed to just "good."