frogact Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 But what is a 'spiritual' being? About 50,000 years ago the human brain wasn't developed enough to grasp the concept of 'ethics' or 'morals', The sons of the first man ever created were building cities and playing musical instraments. If they had that kind of intellect already then they also would have had morals. Only man who has a sprit, has need of moral standards... i'll get back later :shock: jfroggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLancer Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 But what is a 'spiritual' being? About 50,000 years ago the human brain wasn't developed enough to grasp the concept of 'ethics' or 'morals', The sons of the first man ever created were building cities and playing musical instraments. If they had that kind of intellect already then they also would have had morals. Only man who has a sprit, has need of moral standards... i'll get back later :shock: It's not possible, unless there used to be a superior race of men billions of years ago before the dinosaurs. There is no evidence to back it up though. No, we didn't evolve directly from apes but from animals similar to them. I can't be bothered to list all the forms of evolutions from the first one to the current one, there are about 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Think of it this way- God is perfect. Humans are fallen (imperfect). Anything that is not perfect cannot come into the presence of that which is. Christ died for our sins so that He can make us holy. If we allow Him to do so, then we enter into eternal life with God. If we refuse to let Him make us holy, then we cannot join God. Since God is life, and those people are separated from life, they have nothing left but their empty, sinful selves. What could be more hellish than being alone with your own evil for all eternity? Doesn't the story of Job kind of go against this claim? God and Satan makes a bet, now how can Satan come into Gods presence or visa versa to make this bet? The story comes from Judaism in which Satan is not the evil rebel, Christianity comes up with the logic he is but now they're stuck with teachings from judaism. It appears that you've pointed out a flaw in my reasoning. I guess I'll have to rethink and reword that statement. :wink: Let me say it like this, one who is imperfect cannot experience the joy or peace that God gives, since his sin interferes. Most Atheist and Agnostic morals are based on beneficial and harmful acts, where Christian morals are nothing short of tyranny. Teachings which value humility, love, patience, kindness, self control, and mercy are tyrannous? I don't think I want to know what you think selfishness, lust, and hatred are. You're forgetting God comes first above all you just listed, thats tyranny, as for selfishness God does a good job at keeping his ego well fed. Ego? Sir, God neither has nor needs an ego. The reason He requires us to worship Him is because He is the only one worthy of praise. To exalt yourself or anything else over God is sin, since it is not worthy of that praise. As for the tyranny part, I still don't see where you're coming from. God does not force anyone to worship Him (at least not until the end of time when all will see His greatness and be compelled to worship Him, but that's another matter). Even though He wants us to worship Him, he neither needs us to nor forces us to. "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 But what is a 'spiritual' being? About 50,000 years ago the human brain wasn't developed enough to grasp the concept of 'ethics' or 'morals', The sons of the first man ever created were building cities and playing musical instraments. If they had that kind of intellect already then they also would have had morals. Only man who has a sprit, has need of moral standards... i'll get back later :shock: It's not possible, unless there used to be a superior race of men billions of years ago before the dinosaurs. There is no evidence to back it up though. No, we didn't evolve directly from apes but from animals similar to them. I can't be bothered to list all the forms of evolutions from the first one to the current one, there are about 15. There are about 15 theorised forms. Though species similar to humans have been found, there is still no progression of evolution or direct human ancestors that have been uncovered. C. S. Lewis has some good arguements against moralaity being the product of natural selection in Mere Christianity, which I will be glad to type up if I can get my hands on the book. "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomreaper7 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 nope religion is the world oldest and most elaborite scam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exziz Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 If "God" would be here, he has [bleep]ed up my school. Now I have to get those good marks. I dun believe in him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomreaper7 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 hey dont go blaming a figment of your imagination for your problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colsmith Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I am totally with him, People who go to church and actually listen to the churches and get all these new ideas from the church, people who do those things, i have some words for you Ladies and gentlemen, you were just brainwashed Brainwashed? Sir, I believe you are the one who has been brainwashed to stereotype those who believe in God without giving a valid reason. I havent been brainwashed by anything, i dont know anyone with the same thoughts that i have, no one has influenced me to think this way. People that really bileve in the LORD or going to hell if you do a bad thing, its just sad, let me ask you this, i want you to give me hard proof that god exists and that religion is true. Im waiting...... Religion diminishes your life, some peopel dont say swear becuase of religion, some people hate gays and pick on them, becuase of religion, and some people dont drink or have much fun becuase of religion, so you see, religion hurts your life and you dont even know it, you are kept from doing things that you like to do becuase a stupid book in some stupid church says so? It really takes up your life, but you dont even knowit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leylen Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 yes, and im him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Pod Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 But what is a 'spiritual' being? About 50,000 years ago the human brain wasn't developed enough to grasp the concept of 'ethics' or 'morals', The sons of the first man ever created were building cities and playing musical instraments. If they had that kind of intellect already then they also would have had morals. Only man who has a sprit, has need of moral standards... i'll get back later :shock: It's not possible, unless there used to be a superior race of men billions of years ago before the dinosaurs. There is no evidence to back it up though. No, we didn't evolve directly from apes but from animals similar to them. I can't be bothered to list all the forms of evolutions from the first one to the current one, there are about 15. There are about 15 theorised forms. Though species similar to humans have been found, there is still no progression of evolution or direct human ancestors that have been uncovered. C. S. Lewis has some good arguements against moralaity being the product of natural selection in Mere Christianity, which I will be glad to type up if I can get my hands on the book. SPECIES - TIME PERIOD Ardipithicus ramidus - 5 to 4 million years ago Australopithecus anamensis - 4.2 to 3.9 million years ago Australopithecus afarensis - 4 to 2.7 million years ago Australopithecus africanus - 3 to 2 million years ago Australopithecus robustus - 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago Homo habilis - 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago Homo erectus - 2.0 to 0.4 million years ago Homo sapiens archaic - 400 to 200 thousand years ago Homo sapiens neandertalensis - 200 to 30 thousand years ago Homo sapiens sapiens - 200 thousand years ago to present These Dates are only based on KNOWN fossil evidence. If you would go back any further you would combine with other species into a common ancestor shared with other modern species (and many other extinct species) this is our evolution path. I would like to remind you at this point that it is impossible to give every single new "evolutionary trait" a new species title or it is to document it all (many unfavourable traits would obviously kept at a minimum and chances are that the decomposing bodies were not in a environment suitable for fossilisation). These are points along time which best represent noticeable changes in features between species. To give you an example: You may ask how we get from Species A to Species B (for example from our common ancestor to the first ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅhumanÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 As for the tyranny part, I still don't see where you're coming from. God does not force anyone to worship Him (at least not until the end of time when all will see His greatness and be compelled to worship Him, but that's another matter). Even though He wants us to worship Him, he neither needs us to nor forces us to. Throughout the OT God killed non-believers, or gave his followers laws to. And like you pointed out Relevations does too. If you're saying the "Follow me or Die" mentality isn't forceful, then there has never been a tyrant or dictator in human history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Topic: Do you believe in God? Firstly, there are many reglions with a God. So I ask, why is this topic almost all about Christianity? Should that be a topic of its own? Or do you all want to bash it and be sterotypical? Question: If God is perfect, why am I not perfect? "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong." Standard: Adam and Eve fell to the temptation of Satan. This caused them and us to be mortal. Problem: How could Adam and Eve fall if they were created by a perfect God? Eve was deceived by the serpent, also created by God. `(Genesis 3:1-7; Jeremiah 10:16; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2)` In other words, an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-compassionate God created us in imperfection. This conflict in terminology cannot be resolved. Deep, a proposal: The fact remains that God created us in imperfection. We propose this imperfection to be on purpose. We propose this very imperfection separates us from robots and gives us true freedom of will. This proposal could be dead wrong and has no real Biblical backing. We exist to glorify God. Let us pretend to be faced with the problem of creating a being to glorify ourselves. Let us innocently pretend to be God for the purpose of understanding His purpose. We could create a robot, in which we would know precisely what this robot would do from moment to moment. We could check our clock and say "Four seconds to praise time, I sure do feel good when that subroutine runs." Boy, wouldn't that be glorifying! Or, we could create a being that would grow to be so complex we truly would not know exactly why it does what it does. We would need to 'seed' this being with a few unchangeable axioms to be sure it turned out to our liking. These constants such as an overriding love of fellow beings, and love of love itself would stay with the being for the length of its existence. In order to prevent a superficial being, we would also need to 'seed' this being with conflicts so it would seek morality on its own terms. We could also place this being in an environment tailored to educate in good and evil. When this being says "I have looked at the world and have chosen good. I thank you for my life. I believe you are wonderful.", this is true glory. Is it possible to create something which we do not understand? This already exists in artificial neural network systems. Conclusion: We must always look upon God as perfect and all knowing, although the Bible testifies to a less than all knowing God in a few places. `(Genesis 3:8-13; Job 1:8-12; 2:3-6)` God is perfect and all knowing because He is infinitely superior to us in every way. If those of God believe otherwise, they will question the core of the logic in His Word. Once this is done, those of God would be tempted follow their own blind ways until God leads them back to the Truth. When God Doesn't Heal Why doesn't God cure everyone who prays fervently for healing? Answered by Mark M. Yarbrough | posted 09/14/2004 8:30 a.m. The life context of the question is all too familiar. The issue arises in our darkest hoursÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢â∠Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katonglaksa Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 How can i believe in this topic when you can't spell your most important word properly? Tip:It's God[/b] not god notice the Cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 How can i believe in this topic when you can't spell your most important word properly? Tip:It's God[/b] not god notice the Cap? Don't discriminate against the Polythiests... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 God with a capital is usually the Christian god, god itself can mean any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzarn Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I'm a Christian so yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colsmith Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I'm a Christian No,You are brainwashed and corrupted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I'm a Christian No,You are brainwashed and corrupted Please refrain from insulting people without reason or proof. Religion diminishes your life, some peopel dont say swear becuase of religion, some people hate gays and pick on them, becuase of religion, and some people dont drink or have much fun becuase of religion, so you see, religion hurts your life and you dont even know it, you are kept from doing things that you like to do becuase a stupid book in some stupid church says so? It really takes up your life, but you dont even knowit.. I would argue that a life of following Christ is far more rewarding than one of gratifying your sinful nature. When people stop talking to you because of how vulgar your language is, it that more fun? Is it more fun when you get drunk and hurt yourself or a loved one? I would say that you are the one leading purposeless life and denying yourself true joy, even though God would be glad to give it to you. "I have come that you might have life, and have it abundantly." -Jesus Christ "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Pod Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I would argue that a life of following Christ is far more rewarding than one of gratifying your sinful nature. When people stop talking to you because of how vulgar your language is, it that more fun? Is it more fun when you get drunk and hurt yourself or a loved one? I would say that you are the one leading purposeless life and denying yourself true joy, even though God would be glad to give it to you. "I have come that you might have life, and have it abundantly." -Jesus Christ Please refrain from insulting people without reason or proof. Stop insulting non-Christians who do the above in moderation. We are not out of control, sending us on a path to destruction. The Swearing, rambling drunks are a minority group which you just blatantly painted as the majority. There are many people who drink and swear that lead very gratifying lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 heres the way i look at it first off...ill say I DO believe in God....but theres a difference betweeen believeing in God...and believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior anywayz....heres the way i see things If the Christians and I are right... and you believe that Jesus died for you and your sins with your heart....then ull gain salvation... its not based on works...or how good you are...u could be a serial killer and gain salvation.... but bac to my point... if u believe and the Christians are actually wrong in the end...then you really havent lost anything but if u dont believe....and the Christians were RIGHT....then youve lost everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Pod Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Topic: Do you believe in God? Firstly, there are many reglions with a God. So I ask, why is this topic almost all about Christianity? Should that be a topic of its own? Or do you all want to bash it and be sterotypical? Because thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the only religion with followers willing to defend it when people say they donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t believe in a god or they do and list illogical reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 heres a logical thing.... lets say u believe in the big bang theory....or that everything here is here by accident ok? if u believe this.....then technically...everything was an accident that means u are an accident that means ur brain is an accident so y should i believe an accident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Topic: Do you believe in God? Firstly, there are many reglions with a God. So I ask, why is this topic almost all about Christianity? Should that be a topic of its own? Or do you all want to bash it and be sterotypical? Because thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the only religion with followers willing to defend it when people say they donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t believe in a god or they do and list illogical reasons. No, its because most of the "Western World" is Christian or Athiest, and most of the people on this forum would fall in that category. so y should i believe an accident? Because there is logical proof backing up that accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 so y should i believe an accident? Because there is logical proof backing up that accident. im not referring to the theory....im refering to humans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 so y should i believe an accident? Because there is logical proof backing up that accident. im not referring to the theory....im refering to humans I guess I don't understand your logic of: Accident = Unbelievability The discovery of penicillin was an accident, does than mean you shouldn't believe there is such a thing as penicillin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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