Zimlem Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Athiesm = the logical truth. Christianity = the easier way to live life. I wish I was christian, but bieng a .. logical..-ist. I just can't believe. Oh well. I geuss everyone will find out sometime :wink: . -Zim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Athiesm = the logical truth. Christianity = the easier way to live life. I'm willing to bet there are an extremely larger number of Christians persecuted for their beliefs than atheists... some might say people like Galileo were persecuted for their atheistic beliefs but this is just not true... Galileo wanted the church to immediately endorse his views, and he publicly mocked the pope. Something anyone would be persecuted for... Christianity is certainly the harder life if you actually live it out. And the more logical if you take the time to study the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimlem Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I was basing hardship on the feelings of the person, not the physical problems. Atheist = No hope for afterlife. Christian = Can endure because has sense of eternal happiness. -Zim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Athiesm = the logical truth. Christianity = the easier way to live life. I'm willing to bet there are an extremely larger number of Christians persecuted for their beliefs than atheists... some might say people like Galileo were persecuted for their atheistic beliefs but this is just not true... Galileo wanted the church to immediately endorse his views, and he publicly mocked the pope. Something anyone would be persecuted for... Christianity is certainly the harder life if you actually live it out. And the more logical if you take the time to study the evidence. How true, how true. In my opinion the hardest part of living a Christian life is dealing with temptation. The more you resist it, the stronger it becomes. To second what insane said, how many athiest have died for their beliefs? How many have been martyred, persecuted, rejected by friends and family? Following a religion, Christianity in particular, is infinitely harder than a life of giving into temptation and living for yourself. But in the end, it's more than worth it... "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimlem Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I was...Misunderstoooood :cry: . -Zim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multani Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Athiesm = the logical truth. Christianity = the easier way to live life. I wish I was christian, but bieng a .. logical..-ist. I just can't believe. Oh well. I geuss everyone will find out sometime :wink: . -Zim I agree with you dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multani Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 The string theory has pretty much zero physical proof. It's basically a theory created for the sole purpose of taking God out of the equation. So far, it's done a pretty crappy job. It's not as though god has any "physical proof" either. If, however, you have some you'd like to share with us, I'd love to see it. In regards to string theory "not having any physical proof", I point you to discoveries like DNA. When it was first postulated, there was no physical proof it existed either. We eventually developed the technology to see it and manipulate it. Just because string theory is young doesn't mean it's wrong. You speak of string theory as if it is soley intended to attack god. Frankly, that's a pretty tall accusation. String theory was developed because it was recognized to have a great potential for explaining how things are. Which is really what science is about, right? I suppose you COULD consider it a "god theory" in that it would explain pretty much everything, unifying the strong and weak atomic forces, gravity, and electromagnitism, removing the dimorphism between quantum physics and astrophysics, along with everything in between. The Large Hadron Collider currently under construction at CERN will be used to look for particles predicted by string theory. They'll be looking for supersymetrical particles. For more info, go here. I guess we'll have to wait until 2007 to see, as that's when it's due to switch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeguard200 Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 i believe in god and no one can change my decision lifeguard200 Click here to see my blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawkpro Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 yes i do believe in GOD, but cannot stop SINNING its just too hard aye. I dnt do my daily prayers or talk to him.......... its just.... i dnt know. I am wat u called a hypocrite (spelt wrong). It means i believe in him but dnt show like i do whn im around ppl. summary: i belive in GOD, but dnt apply his teaching in the bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolpha Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 What's been said has been said. Someone start up a new issue so we can debate more :P Election 2004!! Bush vs Kerry. Who will win? :D :!: [Jarkan (retired)]-[2001-2003][Adolpha (retired)]-[2003-2004] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubsa Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 There is a God, who made the space for all the universe? But then who made God? :? I don't really mind, all i know is it's gonna be a laugh finding out the truth This is how much you all raised for charity. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usara Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Athiesm = the logical truth. Christianity = the easier way to live life. I'm willing to bet there are an extremely larger number of Christians persecuted for their beliefs than atheists... some might say people like Galileo were persecuted for their atheistic beliefs but this is just not true... Galileo wanted the church to immediately endorse his views, and he publicly mocked the pope. Something anyone would be persecuted for... Christianity is certainly the harder life if you actually live it out. And the more logical if you take the time to study the evidence. How is a bunch of theories out of a biased book, supported by evidence from biased people, ultimately having no evidence, logical? Yea, being a christian is harder... if you live in the times of the Romans :roll: , just as bad as atheist where percecuted by religious leaders during the middle ages. These days living as a christian now has no downside whatsoever, nor atheism Galileo didnt have atheistic beliefs, he was percecuted because science refuted a christian idea, that the world was the center of the universe. Maybe you still believe the earth is flat as well? or that the sky is a blue roof? or many other things which the all knowing chrstian God forgot to mention while he was here, on this insignifigant planet with absurdly stupid life forms orbiting a sun which is refered to as a 'yellow dwarf'. Hardly special in any respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 These days living as a christian now has no downside whatsoever In America and most of Europe, there isn't any physical hardsip from being a Christian. But try living as a Christian in High School, or College, or in a non-Christian work place. Peer pressure, temptation, and being rejected by others can be just as hard as to deal with as a threat on your life. Just so you know, Christian missionaries are still martyred for their beliefs in Africa, the Middle East (some countries), and even in China. People from my church have been martyred while on mission trips. "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 If matter has only been around for billions of years, where did it come from? There is a problem with your 'quantum vacuum'. When most people think of a vacuum, they think of absoultely nothing. The problem is, a quantum vacuum is a sea of fluctuating energy - certainly not nothing. So in a sense you're just pushing back the creation a bit, you still have to show how this quantum vacuum came out of nothing. (Paraphrased from William Lane Craig, PhD, ThD) The only problem that exists is you keep claiming at one stage there was nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usara Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Onoz! Teh temptation! Christians biggest problem is temptation? Immorality? Welcome to reality, everyone deals with things they shouldnt have, which they desire. I guess some people just dont want having religion forced upon them? You believe your saving them? Well why couldnt god tell them about Jesus himself? Maybe your saving 'lesser' people who are too 'insubordinate' to know about Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multani Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 What's been said has been said. Someone start up a new issue so we can debate more :P Election 2004!! Bush vs Kerry. Who will win? :D :!: http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=3589&highlight= :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Yes I believe in God, I'm a Christian myself. I believe there has to be some divine being that created the whole world and universe, I don't see any other way. Click here to help me level!Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 If matter has only been around for billions of years, where did it come from? There is a problem with your 'quantum vacuum'. When most people think of a vacuum, they think of absoultely nothing. The problem is, a quantum vacuum is a sea of fluctuating energy - certainly not nothing. So in a sense you're just pushing back the creation a bit, you still have to show how this quantum vacuum came out of nothing. (Paraphrased from William Lane Craig, PhD, ThD) The only problem that exists is you keep claiming at one stage there was nothing. Can you prove otherwise without contradicting thermodynamic laws? The Kalem Ontological argument: 1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause. 2. The universe had a beginning (the Big Bang). 3. The universe had a cause for it's existence. I can't see this being refuted. It's been tried, but failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onerobone Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I have to say i am agnostic, i would believe in God if he could be proven to me, otherwise no i do not believe in him, i laugh at the creation story in the book of genesis, it sounds so cheesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy5389 Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Alright, I believe that God is a chicken. In the beginning there was nothing except this big chicken, and the universe came into being when the chicken laid a big egg. Eventually, this egg will hatch, but in the meantime its our universe. In fact, mankind is the little chicken fetus. No kidding. We will continue to grow and develop until we are so advanced we become a second god. Don't believe me? Sorry, I can't prove it. But you have to admit it makes sense. Actually I lied. Here's what I really believe: Every human being alive today will someday, if they work hard and virtuously, become a god with their own world under them. Our world is under the power of one god right now, and he was once a human in his own little world under another God, who was human once also..... You get the picture. There isn't really an afterlife, human souls just keep growing and growing until eventually they are gods. This is why people like Isaac Newton and Einstein are so well known. They have already begun the process of understanding this world, and are (were) almost ready to make their own. Someday we will follow them. Sure, this sounds like one huge pyramid scam, but that is actually the meaning of life. Don't believe me? Sorry, I can't prove it. Okay okay, I lied again. But here's what I really truly believe: There is one all-powerful, omnipotent God, and he created the world in seven days (six days?). He filled it with little beasties of his own invention, then created, in his own image, a man. The man lived in paradise until he got horny and He took a rib from the man and made a woman. Then the woman ate a really good-looking apple and got the both of em kicked out into a rough and tumble world. This is why women are not priests; people like them just can't be trusted. Anyway, History passed and people were born and civilization came around and all those goodies, and He decided to send us a prophet. So He used his powers to get some virgin pregnant without actually touching her, because, you know, women aren't worthy, even if they are virgins, cuz of the apple thing, and His son walked the earth. Today we remember both that first man and His son, and we know that eventually, if we are good and don't do too much naughty stuff with that vile gender, we'll all end up sitting on a nice cloud in a blissful place, singing about His glory. If we're really lucky we might get to wash His feet. Don't believe me? Sorry, I can't prove it. By this time (if you've read this whole post), you've probably figured out that I was lying the whole time. I'm really more of an atheist. As far as I can tell, the chicken thing has as much proof as the last, Christian one. Why do you think Christians say that He works in inscrutable ways? It's cuz we haven't actually seen him around since the days that people believed you could sail off the end of the earth, and just maybe (possibly) those accounts are not really trustworthy. Instead, I believe that if I hold a rock out in front of me and let go, it will fall to the earth. If I pull on a chain tied to a tree, the chain will lift off the ground. And if I stay out in the sun for too long, my skin will get all red and I will start to hurt quite a bit. People far more clever than I am have used evidence like this to come up with the idea that the Earth orbits the sun, and the universe was created about 17 billion years ago by a large, unexplained explosion. I believe this because it can be explained to me on evidence that I can test for myself. Some of it is, admittedly, beyond me completely, but since nothing in science has really rung false for me yet, I believe the accepted theories. Physics I can test by playing with sleds and cannons and ropes. The bible and stuff like that, you have to take some guy's word for it every single step of the way. If you're going to just have unconditional faith, why not just believe the chicken thing? I mean, it does explain how a chicken can live with its head chopped off for over a year. (No joke! If you don't believe me, look here. It's a popular site for Chickenistians everywhere. :wink: ) Basically, what I'm trying to say with this dense mass of witty and engaging writing is that there's no proof that there is a god, and there's no proof that there isn't, so I've stopped worrying about it and tried understanding the universe through methods a little more trustworthy than blind faith. Thanks for reading everything, if you didn't read the whole post, may the great chicken in the sky send your soul to the meatblock! If I have offended anybody, don't worry, I'm sure your god will strike me dead for blasphemy. Seriously though, if you are offended, then you are basically offended because of my beliefs. If you choose to be offended by my beliefs, well then, I can always choose to be offended by yours :wink: Off topic: I've always wondered, what would happen if you got in a normal argument (like, over the price of a piece of bread) with a die-hard Christian and you just got angry and shouted "MAY GOD STRIKE YOU DEAD!" Do you think that would end the argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froman8000 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 i'm christian, and i belive in god. and i can PROVE it. well i can't prove it, and im not sure that anyone can, but personally ive read about all of gods and jesus' teachings, and when u think about it if we all lived by these things, the world would be a much better place. unfortunatly bush is still president, and theres more people worshipping the devil, then i have fingers (10, including thumbs) so the world is doomed. yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 If matter has only been around for billions of years, where did it come from? There is a problem with your 'quantum vacuum'. When most people think of a vacuum, they think of absoultely nothing. The problem is, a quantum vacuum is a sea of fluctuating energy - certainly not nothing. So in a sense you're just pushing back the creation a bit, you still have to show how this quantum vacuum came out of nothing. (Paraphrased from William Lane Craig, PhD, ThD) The only problem that exists is you keep claiming at one stage there was nothing. Can you prove otherwise without contradicting thermodynamic laws? The Kalem Ontological argument: 1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause. 2. The universe had a beginning (the Big Bang). 3. The universe had a cause for it's existence. I can't see this being refuted. It's been tried, but failed. The universe had a beginning, energy doesn't. There are no contradictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 i'm christian, and i belive in god. and i can PROVE it. well i can't prove it, and im not sure that anyone can, but personally ive read about all of gods and jesus' teachings, and when u think about it if we all lived by these things, the world would be a much better place. unfortunatly bush is still president, and theres more people worshipping the devil, then i have fingers (10, including thumbs) so the world is doomed. yay. The world wouldn't be better, thats a pipe dream. People would be too busy trying to convince others they're right, you could make everyone believe as you do but that would be hardly a better place. As long as people value something more higher than humanity, humanity will always come second. As for devil worshippers, is that nothing more than a dig at non-christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk8erfreak Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 It really hurts my brain to think about this stuff and how the universe was made and how big it is or how its infinate and if god created it or not... You know what? just live your damn lives and think about what your doing tommorow, not what created us. thats MY quote nobody can steal it 136 Combat, 2290+ Skill Total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewoo Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Can you prove otherwise without contradicting thermodynamic laws? The Kalem Ontological argument: 1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause. 2. The universe had a beginning (the Big Bang). 3. The universe had a cause for it's existence. I can't see this being refuted. It's been tried, but failed. GOD does NOT HAVE a beginning. GOD is considered the UNMOVED MOVER. Believing in GOD is NOT faith. CHRISTIANITY and JESUS is faith. You cannot call yourself a Christian if you don't believe in Jesus. I guaruntee no Christians here have enough knowledge to argue. If you want to see real good arguements, go search online for the more intelligent people. Just because you have a good vocabulary doesn't mean ANYTHING! You're most likely in error. This is why Christians have the harder side. The vast majority of atheists say "Prove it, prove it, prove it," but the more intelligent ones will argue without idiocy. If you simply say, I don't believe in God because it's stupid, you obviously need to LEARN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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