Back to the beginning

[crimsonking]

 

That'd be a very good theory, except for the fact that it wouldn't add up either. ANd what is all this? Why can God just NOT EXIST?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because he is an abstract concept, and randomness is worth defending untill the end. God is everything. He is nothing. It makes more sense to defend his existence if you don't believe in him, given his extremely vengeful nature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we don't know for a fact he exists then how are we to know hes one to hold a grudge?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe he may exist, its possible, though its definatly not a fact, seeing as there is absolutly no evidence to prove his existance, even if there was, the chance of him being exactly as Christians make him out to be is extremly slim, there are infinate possibilities as to how god would be if he did exist, so, even if he existed its extremly doubtful that anyone in existance is or ever was right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have anything insightful or productive to say about that then feel free to share.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God couldn't have created the universe, because he is the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then how was God created?

[Rebdragon]

 

 

That'd be a very good theory, except for the fact that it wouldn't add up either. ANd what is all this? Why can God just NOT EXIST?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because he is an abstract concept, and randomness is worth defending untill the end. God is everything. He is nothing. It makes more sense to defend his existence if you don't believe in him, given his extremely vengeful nature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we don't know for a fact he exists then how are we to know hes one to hold a grudge?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe he may exist, its possible, though its definatly not a fact, seeing as there is absolutly no evidence to prove his existance, even if there was, the chance of him being exactly as Christians make him out to be is extremly slim, there are infinate possibilities as to how god would be if he did exist, so, even if he existed its extremly doubtful that anyone in existance is or ever was right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have anything insightful or productive to say about that then feel free to share.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God couldn't have created the universe, because he is the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then how was God created?

 

 

 

Why does It always have to been created? What if, through a form of a warp in time and dimensions that we won't understand for a few millenia, It always has existed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pault, I totally agree with you that God is most likely the universe itself. Personally, I believe it to be all the matter, energy, and "soul" of the universe. Basically a summation of my beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I know and have learned, it seems like the most logical view of God, personally.

[crimsonking]

 

 

 

That'd be a very good theory, except for the fact that it wouldn't add up either. ANd what is all this? Why can God just NOT EXIST?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because he is an abstract concept, and randomness is worth defending untill the end. God is everything. He is nothing. It makes more sense to defend his existence if you don't believe in him, given his extremely vengeful nature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we don't know for a fact he exists then how are we to know hes one to hold a grudge?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe he may exist, its possible, though its definatly not a fact, seeing as there is absolutly no evidence to prove his existance, even if there was, the chance of him being exactly as Christians make him out to be is extremly slim, there are infinate possibilities as to how god would be if he did exist, so, even if he existed its extremly doubtful that anyone in existance is or ever was right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have anything insightful or productive to say about that then feel free to share.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God couldn't have created the universe, because he is the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then how was God created?

 

 

 

Why does It always have to been created? What if, through a form of a warp in time and dimensions that we won't understand for a few millenia, It always has existed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pault, I totally agree with you that God is most likely the universe itself. Personally, I believe it to be all the matter, energy, and "soul" of the universe. Basically a summation of my beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I know and have learned, it seems like the most logical view of God, personally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really, the only possibility if we put it in our terms of logic, is that he has always been, though I would really like to know how that is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course there is the fact that the creator doesn't necessarily abide by its creations logic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I have explained before, its like a animator and an animation, the animator can make its animation shoot firebolts out of its eyes and live through things that would normally kill him, though it doesn't necessarily mean he is able to do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I know I have pretty much just answered my own question, though I do like to hear other theories, and just because it is possible doesn't mean it is true.

[Kewl_Sabre]

Yikes. Those are a large amount of frighteningly long posts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This debate really is the crux of the Religion vs. Atheism argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently, we really don't know why the Big Bang happened. As in why the universe was an infinitely small mass of energy. When you get right down to it there is either some force humans have yet to discover or everything is infinitely old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it possible that there is no beginning? It's a hard concept for humanity to wrap their minds around. We NEED beginnings, and most of the time ends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we decide that there must be a beginning to all things, then there is a force out there we haven't yet discovered. Is it God? Is it even sentient? Even if there is something out there these are further questions that would have to be answered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I see it humanity simply doesn't know enough about the true nature of anything. We can ponder beginnings and god for eternity and not get closer to the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All we can really do is take what reality has given to us and apply our logic as best we can. Right now I favour the theory that we really don't know the truth, there is that force we haven't found yet. And for now, I call it the "God" force - the unknown force that started it all. I haven't the faintest idea about the nature of the God force, and I don't know if I need to worship it daily, but I do believe it's out there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So let's all become agnostics and call it a day. :P

[crimsonking]

So let's all become agnostics and call it a day. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I second that notion. :P

[yomom1919]

Remember, time is man-made. Time doesnt really exist.

[crimsonking]

Remember, time is man-made. Time doesnt really exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, time is the line linking one instance to the other.

[Rebdragon]

 

Remember, time is man-made. Time doesnt really exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, time is the line linking one instance to the other.

 

 

 

No, time is confusing.

[yomom1919]

No, time is the line linking one instance to the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Memories fufill that. No one can be shure the past is real, no matter how many artifacts we have. We have never lived in the past. Records are the only way into the past. And those links are imaginary, arent they? They have no physical bonds.

[crimsonking]

 

No, time is the line linking one instance to the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Memories fufill that. No one can be shure the past is real, no matter how many artifacts we have. We have never lived in the past. Records are the only way into the past. And those links are imaginary, arent they? They have no physical bonds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That doesn't have to do with time though, time links a real instance to another real instance. Just because we don't have a full knowledge of what happened, does not mean it effects time, it effects our view of history, yes, but it doesn't effect what really happened in the time that went by.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, we use evidence to know what happened before our time, it may not show absolutly everything, but it shows quite a lot and gives us somewhat of a grasp on what went on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why exactly are we talking about time?

[yomom1919]

Why exactly are we talking about time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People try to think of the universe in a historical sense, as in a timeline. If time doesnt exist, that would prove to be impossible.

[pault]

Currently, we really don't know why the Big Bang happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently, you don't. I do. It happened because it has already happened, and will happen again in the future. It is going on right now. Something, from nothing.

[crimsonking]

 

Why exactly are we talking about time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People try to think of the universe in a historical sense, as in a timeline. If time doesnt exist, that would prove to be impossible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

History is our only link to the past, like I said, it gives us a good grasp on what happened before our time, if we didn't look at the universe historically, how would we look at it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time indeed exists, else we would be stuck in one instance, not able to move on, no matter how we look at existance, this one thing is an absolute fact

[Celt23]

What if time as we percive it does not exist? What if it's something else that causes 'time', some invisible force? A river in a different reality pushing our universe forward through the RIVER OF 'TIME'!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I got carried away a bit, but I think I made my point. We don't have a clue about time do we? Can I look at some time? Can you bring me some time on a plate?

[crimsonking]

What if time as we percive it does not exist? What if it's something else that causes 'time', some invisible force? A river in a different reality pushing our universe forward through the RIVER OF 'TIME'!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I got carried away a bit, but I think I made my point. We don't have a clue about time do we? Can I look at some time? Can you bring me some time on a plate?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does not matter how the flow of time is caused, time still exists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think of it this way, animation is caused by linking one picture to several others, think of these pictures as instances, and the cycle of animation shows time, if the animation cycle doesn't run, all you have is a bunch of unlinked instances, that would be how it would be if we didn't have time.

[Celt23]

Like I said, you can't observe time non-arbitararily. I am not a creationist or what-not, but what if there is something else that causes the animation cycles to work?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean a force or summat, not a god.

[crimsonking]

Like I said, you can't observe time non-arbitararily. I am not a creationist or what-not, but what if there is something else that causes the animation cycles to work?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean a force or summat, not a god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't matter, the cycle still goes on.

[Celt23]

The cycle that you can't show me on a plate and thus cannot prove scientifically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What if there is an invisible force, like gravity, that causes tyme?

[katsuro0]

it's impossible to prove God's existence because that would be knowledge. Just look through history. Every attempt at a proof fails in some way or another (descartes, idealism, etc, etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

likewise, it's impossible to disprove God because we just don't know enough and most likely never will due to our limited capabilities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so it all comes down to faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/topic]

[crimsonking]

The cycle that you can't show me on a plate and thus cannot prove scientifically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What if there is an invisible force, like gravity, that causes tyme?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is getting rather annoying. -.-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've been showing you proof dude, but I will say it again, if there was no time, we would just be unlinked instances, thus we cannot move, cannot think, cannot do anything, we would just be frozen, mere pictures of reality, every fraction of a second would be a different frozen instance, unable to go on to the next one due to the link of time not existing.

[Celt23]

It was a thought.

[pault]

It was a thought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time doesn't make much sense, though, so your actually heading in the right direction here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Dichotomy: There is no motion, because that which is moved must arrive at the middle before it arrives at the end, and so on ad infinitum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Achilles: The slower will never be overtaken by the quicker, for that which is pursuing must first reach the point from which that which is fleeing started, so that the slower must always be some distance ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Arrow: If everything is either at rest or moving when it occupies a space equal to itself, while the object moved is always in the instant, a moving arrow is unmoved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Stadium: Consider two rows of bodies, each composed of an equal number of bodies of equal size. They pass each other as they travel with equal velocity in opposite directions. Thus, half a time is equal to the whole time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s3-07/3-07.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we think of time as time, it doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time happens all at once. The future and the past both exist in the same space, and both are "Happening" right now, insofar as there is no way to sufficiently prove that we live in a single space of time (proven in paradox above).

[Tigra00]

it's impossible to prove God's existence because that would be knowledge. Just look through history. Every attempt at a proof fails in some way or another (descartes, idealism, etc, etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

likewise, it's impossible to disprove God because we just don't know enough and most likely never will due to our limited capabilities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so it all comes down to faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/topic]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't you think the word of an infalible God would be kinda'...You know...Infalible? The Bible contradicts itself many times...Enough for people to think it's BS. I just read through Jesus' miracles again and searched for sites seeing how many people can think of something to debunk them, and I never realized how easily Jesus could have decieved people. When I read the Bible, I did not notice these things. Now, having read what I did today, I absolutely don't blame Jews for not believing Jesus was the Messiah. Turns out, about half the people back in Jesus' day thought he was a liar and a fraud. Also turns out, that re-reading his "Miracles", I can see how each one could have been deceptive. John's account is probably the most damning evidence AGAINST Jesus, and not for him. He writes some thing as if he was skeptical of Jesus himself. They are things that Christians make excuses for, but their excuses contradict and then they revert back to the whole "Jesus is God. Amen. Praise God" stuff because they've been defeated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't find the site atm, but if you find it, you should read it, it's really good actually.

[warri0r45]

 

it's impossible to prove God's existence because that would be knowledge. Just look through history. Every attempt at a proof fails in some way or another (descartes, idealism, etc, etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

likewise, it's impossible to disprove God because we just don't know enough and most likely never will due to our limited capabilities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so it all comes down to faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/topic]

 

 

 

They are things that Christians make excuses for, but their excuses contradict and then they revert back to the whole "Jesus is God. Amen. Praise God"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's because these fundamentalist creationists you see build thier evidence around a conclusion i.e. they pick and choose what facts suit thier conclusion and nothing else. Now logic would tell you that you come to a conclusion after evidence is presented. That's basically all that annoys me about creationists. They keep saying 'but this is why scientists are full of crap' as if they are afraid of getting proven wrong and as if faith is beyond them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a disclaimer I realise the overwhelming majority of christians these days are not fundamentalist creationists as they obviously have the ability to put 2 and 2 together and use logic. I have nothing against any christian either, just the fact that the minority of them choose to deny logic and pick and choose what suits them and thier conclusion. Narrow mindedness FTL.

[Tigra00]

I know most christian's aren't fundamentalist creationsists either, but frankly I don't see how they can't be. Evolution and Religion do not go hand-in-hand and never could, so it's either one side or the other. There literally is no middle.