The bible

[warri0r45]

No Warrior I'm not stating at all that those scientific studies are incorrect. I'm just stating that it is not God deceiving anyone (from the original statement of Tigra's) that if he were to already put those rocks on the earth that are infact rocks "pre-made" resembling that of a rock millions of years old. The fact is its got nothing to do with God "deceiving" anyone.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be on anyone's side here, I'm merely stating that saying it could of been a reality and saying that if God were to do something like that it would not of been a deceiving action. Refer to my first post in reply to Tigra as to why, I believe this.

 

 

 

Ok. I can't say I'm in agreement with you as making something look like it's not is to me a decieving action. I'm not sure I fully understand your argument; are you saying it's not decieving to make something seem like it's not, for example to make rocks look old through thier chemistry while in fact they are not nearly as old as we would be led to believe? Sorry if I'm getting you wrong here.

 

 

 

Either way perhaps you could put my mind at rest. What purpose would there be to make rocks seem billions of years old when they are in fact not?

 

 

 

Edit: Ok, so god never told us he created rocks brand new, yet, he created us with the brains to interpret these rocks in the light that they fit into a chronology of "birth" ---> present state, just like anything else. What reason do we have to believe that rocks were just created pre-aged? We have reason to, and we know, that rocks dont come pre-packaged, rather they can be formed via sedimentation, cooling lava flows, etc.

 

 

 

I'm finding it hard to grasp that god would want to make the earth look a certain way when it's not.

 

 

 

Too be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have a clue, and am just as confused with the argument as you. I'm not actually saying I support the argument itself, but its a valid hypothetical thats for sure. I won't ever know during my human life the answers to these things, but as you said in your pm we'll find out one day - that's for sure!

 

 

 

For the record, I brought it all up after the comment from Tigra stating that it would be deceiving for God to make rocks a certain age when we would interpret them to be that age. Which I disagreed with, its not a deceitful action.

 

 

 

This highlights why I'd personally not take the creation story in the bible as literal fact and rather as metaphorical. The idea that god would create everything as is under 10,000 years ago and then lead us to believe through empirical evidence that everything is in reality much, much older is, to be generous, an uncomfortable thought. If I were a theist, I'd personally go with the model of god being a spark for the big bang. But, due to what some might call my closed mindedness (and I'd somewhat agree), my thoughts remain in what I can know rather than what I'd like to be the case.

 

 

 

What I'm getting at here is that, as discussed in PM, there are many things that we can only possibly know when we die be they through affirmation or lack thereof. I personally choose to go with the empirical evidence which debunks a literal accound of genesis and I subsequently have a strong degree of knowlege here in my mortal form that the god of a literally interpreted bible does not likely exist. Can the god of the bible exist? Can a god exist? Sure, I can't see why not. It's just the literal interpretation leaves us at odds with knowns and leads me to the only reasonable conclusion of rejecting the notion that the bible is an inerrant text book.

 

 

 

So there you go, a little of my viewpoint. :wink:

 

 

 

Oh no, I might not know why God decided to do something one way and not the other, but I definitely don't have any agreement with the Big Bang theory or evolution for that matter, no matter how much evidence is brought forward (which won't happen in my beliefs anyway). Believing in the Big Bang or in Evolution in my personal view destroys the whole meaning of our faith in Jesus Christ. It specifically states that God created man in his likeness, and didn't create some monkey which turned into a human, it just goes against that whole argument, we being monkeys thousands of years ago. And also Jesus didn't come to Earth to die on the cross for the monkeys, he did it for us human beings, so I could never believe in evolution because of that. And even if you could make a comprimise, where would a Christian draw the line as to when Jesus came and died on the cross for which first "human." When did a human stop becoming a monkey and turn into what we are today, and start to sin?

 

 

 

I could never believe in that, even if I don't have all the answers, that's where faith comes in.

 

 

 

BTW Sorry for the rushed post, I've gotta go somewhere quickly, I'll edit it later if it doesn't make enough sense. :wink:

 

 

 

I see. Well, I'm not going to argue you should or shouldn't believe something; my view is people should be free to believe whatever they wish. My general purpose when debating matters such as evolution is merely to put across my side of the story, which happens to be the mainstream scientific position too. What people do with the information I put forward is of course up to them. In the broadest sense most of the arguing you'll get from me comes from rebuttal of people misrepresenting or misinterpreting the science they are attacking.

 

 

 

This is why I admire you in many ways. You don't feel the need to constantly hound at the science behind evolution by arguing through ignorance with popular (and I have to say outdated and misinformed, in many cases) arguments as if to allude to an underlying insecurity as some others may. You seem to have something that many biblical literalists seem to lack - faith.

 

 

 

Simple, isn't it? Supposeldy the most faithful, those that take the message most literally, tend to be the most insecure, vocal and quick to try and find flaws in established science. They seem to forget about faith in favour of trying to be armchair scientists to in a way give thier own views credentials and possibly in another to convert minds.

 

 

 

Be faithful, believe and you'll get no worries from me. But then try and make it seem like science is against a theory like evolution by twisting and contorting the facts? That's when we'll get trouble. So someone such as yourself, who has faith and avoids the vast majority of soap-box 'science evangelism' (kent hovind reference), will get basically no worries from me. :P

[Korskin]

 

Oh no, I might not know why God decided to do something one way and not the other, but I definitely don't have any agreement with the Big Bang theory or evolution for that matter, no matter how much evidence is brought forward (which won't happen in my beliefs anyway). Believing in the Big Bang or in Evolution in my personal view destroys the whole meaning of our faith in Jesus Christ. It specifically states that God created man in his likeness, and didn't create some monkey which turned into a human, it just goes against that whole argument, we being monkeys thousands of years ago. And also Jesus didn't come to Earth to die on the cross for the monkeys, he did it for us human beings, so I could never believe in evolution because of that. And even if you could make a comprimise, where would a Christian draw the line as to when Jesus came and died on the cross for which first "human." When did a human stop becoming a monkey and turn into what we are today, and start to sin?

 

 

 

I could never believe in that, even if I don't have all the answers, that's where faith comes in.

 

 

 

BTW Sorry for the rushed post, I've gotta go somewhere quickly, I'll edit it later if it doesn't make enough sense. :wink:

 

In what way is the Big Bang incompatible with christianity? I agree that evolution is incompatible but your arguments seem to be all about evolution and not really about the Big Bang. It might be wise not to put evolution and the Big Bang in the same bracket. I'm not an expert on the Big Bang but if it's is true, the universe has begun to exist and is not self-existent, which could be a start for arguing that there is a God (its originator).

[vilageidiotx]

 

Oh no, I might not know why God decided to do something one way and not the other, but I definitely don't have any agreement with the Big Bang theory or evolution for that matter, no matter how much evidence is brought forward (which won't happen in my beliefs anyway). Believing in the Big Bang or in Evolution in my personal view destroys the whole meaning of our faith in Jesus Christ. It specifically states that God created man in his likeness, and didn't create some monkey which turned into a human, it just goes against that whole argument, we being monkeys thousands of years ago. And also Jesus didn't come to Earth to die on the cross for the monkeys, he did it for us human beings, so I could never believe in evolution because of that. And even if you could make a comprimise, where would a Christian draw the line as to when Jesus came and died on the cross for which first "human." When did a human stop becoming a monkey and turn into what we are today, and start to sin?

 

 

 

I could never believe in that, even if I don't have all the answers, that's where faith comes in.

 

 

 

BTW Sorry for the rushed post, I've gotta go somewhere quickly, I'll edit it later if it doesn't make enough sense. :wink:

 

In what way is the Big Bang incompatible with christianity? I agree that evolution is incompatible but your arguments seem to be all about evolution and not really about the Big Bang. It might be wise not to put evolution and the Big Bang in the same bracket. I'm not an expert on the Big Bang but if it's is true, the universe has begun to exist and is not self-existent, which could be a start for arguing that there is a God (its originator).

 

 

 

I have to disagree with both of you, evolution fits in well with christianity. All it says is god created all living things, but never does it say how. Evolution could be viewed as a creation process. It says god created everything in six days, well, six god days could be billions of years. That means we would have stopped being monkeys in the first pages of the bible. This view is supported by the fact that there was talk of days before there was a sun. Also, the deal with we being created in his likeness is intresting really, because as far as i knew god don't have a physical likeness, and it's hard to make something out of the likeness of something without a likeness.

[Denismage]

Lmao! Thanks for evading my questions and providing updated proof, which shouldn't be too hard since your in college right now.

 

 

 

Fail.

 

 

 

Instead you just told me to suck it up and bow down to your intelligence just because you said so.

 

 

 

PLEASE provide logical "updated" evidence that Evolution is a Fact.

 

 

 

Otherwise its just your word vs mine.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Thanks for evading my post, please provide logical updated evidence that god exists, not the one that's about 2000 years old.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

Where was god when world wars occurred, why did god allow twin towers to fall, where was he at that time? Answer.

[vilageidiotx]

Lmao! Thanks for evading my questions and providing updated proof, which shouldn't be too hard since your in college right now.

 

 

 

Fail.

 

 

 

Instead you just told me to suck it up and bow down to your intelligence just because you said so.

 

 

 

PLEASE provide logical "updated" evidence that Evolution is a Fact.

 

 

 

Otherwise its just your word vs mine.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Thanks for evading my post, please provide logical updated evidence that god exists, not the one that's about 2000 years old.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

Where was god when world wars occurred, why did god allow twin towers to fall, where was he at that time? Answer.

 

 

 

Ok, easy question.

 

 

 

God pretty much made it clear we can do what we want, just we would be held responsible later. The world wars and 9/11 were cause by men acting on their own. God doesn't directly interfere in the problems we cause for our selfs.

[Korskin]

 

I have to disagree with both of you, evolution fits in well with christianity. All it says is god created all living things, but never does it say how. Evolution could be viewed as a creation process. It says god created everything in six days, well, six god days could be billions of years. That means we would have stopped being monkeys in the first pages of the bible. This view is supported by the fact that there was talk of days before there was a sun. Also, the deal with we being created in his likeness is intresting really, because as far as i knew god don't have a physical likeness, and it's hard to make something out of the likeness of something without a likeness.

 

If we are created in his likeness does that mean that God was once a monkey? Anyway the whole idea of evolution is natural selection aka survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest is probably the opposite of what the Bible teaches. The Bible says that we should help the sick and the poor. If survival of the fittest truly was the work of God, why does he want us to help those who obviously aren't fit enough to survive?

[vilageidiotx]

 

I have to disagree with both of you, evolution fits in well with christianity. All it says is god created all living things, but never does it say how. Evolution could be viewed as a creation process. It says god created everything in six days, well, six god days could be billions of years. That means we would have stopped being monkeys in the first pages of the bible. This view is supported by the fact that there was talk of days before there was a sun. Also, the deal with we being created in his likeness is intresting really, because as far as i knew god don't have a physical likeness, and it's hard to make something out of the likeness of something without a likeness.

 

If we are created in his likeness does that mean that God was once a monkey? Anyway the whole idea of evolution is natural selection aka survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest is probably the opposite of what the Bible teaches. The Bible says that we should help the sick and the poor. If survival of the fittest truly was the work of God, why does he want us to help those who obviously aren't fit enough to survive?

 

 

 

Though i look at "likeness" different, there is an alternative way to look at it, evolution was the creation process.

 

 

 

Second is because survival of the fittest is not a good human social practice. I would hate to see the day when we decide other wise.

[Denismage]

Lmao! Thanks for evading my questions and providing updated proof, which shouldn't be too hard since your in college right now.

 

 

 

Fail.

 

 

 

Instead you just told me to suck it up and bow down to your intelligence just because you said so.

 

 

 

PLEASE provide logical "updated" evidence that Evolution is a Fact.

 

 

 

Otherwise its just your word vs mine.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Thanks for evading my post, please provide logical updated evidence that god exists, not the one that's about 2000 years old.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

Where was god when world wars occurred, why did god allow twin towers to fall, where was he at that time? Answer.

 

 

 

Ok, easy question.

 

 

 

God pretty much made it clear we can do what we want, just we would be held responsible later. The world wars and 9/11 were cause by men acting on their own. God doesn't directly interfere in the problems we cause for our selfs.

 

 

 

Where did he say so and what did we do? While you are at it, show me proof god exists, proof that makes sense.

[warri0r45]

 

I have to disagree with both of you, evolution fits in well with christianity. All it says is god created all living things, but never does it say how. Evolution could be viewed as a creation process. It says god created everything in six days, well, six god days could be billions of years. That means we would have stopped being monkeys in the first pages of the bible. This view is supported by the fact that there was talk of days before there was a sun. Also, the deal with we being created in his likeness is intresting really, because as far as i knew god don't have a physical likeness, and it's hard to make something out of the likeness of something without a likeness.

 

If we are created in his likeness does that mean that God was once a monkey? Anyway the whole idea of evolution is natural selection aka survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest is probably the opposite of what the Bible teaches. The Bible says that we should help the sick and the poor. If survival of the fittest truly was the work of God, why does he want us to help those who obviously aren't fit enough to survive?

 

 

 

You're comparing evolution and what the bible teaches as if they are both moral constructs or ways to live your life. Evolution is a scientific theory which merely explains life on earth. Just be aware that if someone uses evolution as an excuse to act in a certain way, they've taken it way out of the context of science. This would be social darwinism, something which I personally think is a rubbish way to think or base your life's choices on. Survival of the fittest is a consequence of there being disparity in genetic make-up and resource avaliability between members of a population. Humans have risen above this, in many ways.

[vilageidiotx]

Lmao! Thanks for evading my questions and providing updated proof, which shouldn't be too hard since your in college right now.

 

 

 

Fail.

 

 

 

Instead you just told me to suck it up and bow down to your intelligence just because you said so.

 

 

 

PLEASE provide logical "updated" evidence that Evolution is a Fact.

 

 

 

Otherwise its just your word vs mine.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Thanks for evading my post, please provide logical updated evidence that god exists, not the one that's about 2000 years old.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

Where was god when world wars occurred, why did god allow twin towers to fall, where was he at that time? Answer.

 

 

 

Ok, easy question.

 

 

 

God pretty much made it clear we can do what we want, just we would be held responsible later. The world wars and 9/11 were cause by men acting on their own. God doesn't directly interfere in the problems we cause for our selfs.

 

 

 

Where did he say so and what did we do? While you are at it, show me proof god exists, proof that makes sense.

 

 

 

Let me clarify, we have the ability to make choices for ourselves, if we didn't have the ability to chose we wouldn't need a bible in the first place, because we would automaticly not sin. Why would there even be a commandment not allowing murder if god intervened in murder?

 

 

 

As for proofing god, i have to admit im not the guy to ask for proof, cause i don't look for proof myself. I'm only intrested in the philosophy, which is why i'm so bad at explaining the details. The best would be the scientific neccessity for a cause to creation. I'm no expert, but how can an random explosion, in nothing, caused by nothing, ever take place, let alone form the universe? If you have a cause, where did that cause come from? Repeat as far as you need to. This only allows three options

 

 

 

1: Something just appeared out of thin air to cause the big bang

 

 

 

2: There never was a beginning, the universe had just always been here

 

 

 

3: Something Supernatural created it

 

 

 

I've seen stuff about all three being toyed around with by scientests. My opinion is that we simply aren't in a place, ability wise, to prove any given theory or thought on how the universe came to existence.

 

 

 

.

[Rebdragon]

Let me clarify, we have the ability to make choices for ourselves, if we didn't have the ability to chose we wouldn't need a bible in the first place, because we would automaticly not sin. Why would there even be a commandment not allowing murder if god intervened in murder?

 

 

 

As for proofing god, i have to admit im not the guy to ask for proof, cause i don't look for proof myself. I'm only intrested in the philosophy, which is why i'm so bad at explaining the details. The best would be the scientific neccessity for a cause to creation. I'm no expert, but how can an random explosion, in nothing, caused by nothing, ever take place, let alone form the universe? If you have a cause, where did that cause come from? Repeat as far as you need to. This only allows three options

 

 

 

1: Something just appeared out of thin air to cause the big bang

 

 

 

2: There never was a beginning, the universe had just always been here

 

 

 

3: Something Supernatural created it

 

 

 

I've seen stuff about all three being toyed around with by scientests. My opinion is that we simply aren't in a place, ability wise, to prove any given theory or thought on how the universe came to existence.

 

What about a Cyclic Universe, a universe that has always existed and will continue to forever? That doesn't really need a creator, does it?

 

 

 

I've been reading up on Superstring theory, and if it's correct then there is a limit to how small the matter at the Big Bang (and Big Crunch) can get, the Planck length. It's kind of small. Picture an atom. Now picture it the size of the universe. Now picture a tree in that universe. That's about the Planck length, a tree in an atom the size of the universe. Any attempt at compression beyond that results in expansion, which would explain how our universe could go around in an undending continuous cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches.

 

 

 

Cyclic Universe. Sorry if you're unfamiliar with String theory, but this gets the basic idea across.

 

 

 

Actually, if you don't want to bother with the String Theory mumbo jumbo (which would be perfectly understandable, it's weird stuff), this should do: The Endless Universe.. I believe venomai showed me that link, so credit goes to him :-k .

[Adventurer]

Ack, people. Could you maybe quote without the pyramids? Reading this topic gets hard.

 

Oh, and could somebody show me a good argument against the natural-selection-wouldn't-have-made-flagellum thing?

 

 

 

 

 

Warri0r, wasn't that bacteria thing just microevolution (which Christians aknowledge)? Oh, btw, the Bible says: (Genesis 2) "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

 

I think that's where the guy is getting his "people weren't monkeys" thing from.

 

Is the cyclic universe the same thing as oscillating theory?

 

 

 

 

 

InfernalZ, play on words doesn't equal discussion. The story of 9/11 would be connotative of a narrative, for example, not fiction.

 

 

 

 

 

Korskin, I think that evolution doesn't fit with Genesis. Didn't life in evolution: 1. start in water, 2. move to land, 3. adjust and become terrestrial?

 

In Genesis, plant life starts on land, both fish and birds appear, then the land creatures come. Isn't that different?

 

 

 

 

 

Where did he say so and what did we do? While you are at it, show me proof god exists, proof that makes sense.

 

 

If you're looking for scientific proof, then good luck. Science doesn't cover spiritual stuff because it's not observable with the 5 senses.

 

But: (Genesis 2) "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

 

They get a choice here, see? In the beginning, that was the only choice to disobey, but it was there, and they got to choose, ya know?

[warri0r45]

Ack, people. Could you maybe quote without the pyramids? Reading this topic gets hard.

 

(1) Oh, and could somebody show me a good argument against the natural-selection-wouldn't-have-made-flagellum thing?

 

 

 

 

 

(2) Warri0r, wasn't that bacteria thing just microevolution (which Christians aknowledge)? Oh, btw, the Bible says: (Genesis 2) "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

 

I think that's where the guy is getting his "people weren't monkeys" thing from.

 

Is the cyclic universe the same thing as oscillating theory?

 

 

 

 

 

InfernalZ, play on words doesn't equal discussion. The story of 9/11 would be connotative of a narrative, for example, not fiction.

 

 

 

 

 

Korskin, I think that evolution doesn't fit with Genesis. Didn't life in evolution: 1. start in water, 2. move to land, 3. adjust and become terrestrial?

 

In Genesis, plant life starts on land, both fish and birds appear, then the land creatures come. Isn't that different?

 

 

 

 

 

Where did he say so and what did we do? While you are at it, show me proof god exists, proof that makes sense.

 

 

If you're looking for scientific proof, then good luck. Science doesn't cover spiritual stuff because it's not observable with the 5 senses.

 

But: (Genesis 2) "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

 

They get a choice here, see? In the beginning, that was the only choice to disobey, but it was there, and they got to choose, ya know?

 

 

 

(1) Gladly. You are referring to irreducable complexity here. Have a view of

 

 

 

(2) Yes, this is microevolution. I was demonstrating why it is an undeniable fact, as you may be aware of already. Microevolution, with sufficient time, leads to macroevolution. The two are just arbitrary labels and are one and the same thing merely seperated by timescale. If you'd like to disprove macroevolution, feel free to search for the mechanism in DNA which recognises which mutations go outside of the 'kind' and prevents them. A demonstrable mechanism such as this would effectively make common descent a falsified theory.

[Korskin]

 

You're comparing evolution and what the bible teaches as if they are both moral constructs or ways to live your life. Evolution is a scientific theory which merely explains life on earth. Just be aware that if someone uses evolution as an excuse to act in a certain way, they've taken it way out of the context of science. This would be social darwinism, something which I personally think is a rubbish way to think or base your life's choices on. Survival of the fittest is a consequence of there being disparity in genetic make-up and resource avaliability between members of a population. Humans have risen above this, in many ways.

 

Perhaps the comparison was a bit off. But tell me:

 

Why do you think it's rubbish? Why should we help the sick and poor?

 

 

 

And I'll also quote myself from another thread:

 

Okay, I'm gonna change my mind. I actually do think that some beliefs are bunk. I don't believe that the Bible and Christianity are compatible with the evolution theory. The evolution theory says that humans are no more special than any other species. They might be the most prominent species at the moment, but there is no guarantee that we will always be nor have always been. Why would Jesus die for some random species who currently is at the top of the world? Why would humans be asked to rule all other species? Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

 

It's like suddenly some christians decided to disregard what the Bible actually says and try to fit it in with the evolution theory. If you're going to react like: "oh but God used that..." every time a new theory comes along, you'll end up losing your credibility.

[venomai]

Why do you think it's rubbish? Why should we help the sick and poor?

 

Why become a police officer? Why donate organs or blood? A lot of people enjoy saving lives. :) Many of the sick and poor aren't in a position to help themselves.

 

 

 

"Love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matthew 5: 43, etc.)

[warri0r45]

 

You're comparing evolution and what the bible teaches as if they are both moral constructs or ways to live your life. Evolution is a scientific theory which merely explains life on earth. Just be aware that if someone uses evolution as an excuse to act in a certain way, they've taken it way out of the context of science. This would be social darwinism, something which I personally think is a rubbish way to think or base your life's choices on. Survival of the fittest is a consequence of there being disparity in genetic make-up and resource avaliability between members of a population. Humans have risen above this, in many ways.

 

Perhaps the comparison was a bit off. But tell me:

 

Why do you think it's rubbish? (1) Why should we help the sick and poor?

 

 

 

And I'll also quote myself from another thread:

 

Okay, I'm gonna change my mind. I actually do think that some beliefs are bunk. I don't believe that the Bible and Christianity are compatible with the evolution theory. The evolution theory says that humans are no more special than any other species. They might be the most prominent species at the moment, but there is no guarantee that we will always be nor have always been. Why would Jesus die for some random species who currently is at the top of the world? Why would humans be asked to rule all other species? Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

 

It's like suddenly some christians decided to disregard what the Bible actually says and try to fit it in with the evolution theory. If you're going to react like: "oh but God used that..." every time a new theory comes along, you'll end up losing your credibility.

 

 

 

(1) Why not? All humans seem to have an underlying behaviourally shown attitude of altruism. It's only recently we gained the knowlege to see that the sick and weak can't progress a gene pool like those that aren't sick and weak can. I choose to stick with the altruism and stay away from social darwinism rhetoric. It's the kind of thing Hitler manipulated in trying to get a 'perfect' master race of blue eyed, blonde haired people. I just think the idea of denying or neglecting life to further a gene pool is dangerously subjective, prone to manipulation, and retarded.

[Kenshinjapan]

Lmao! Thanks for evading my questions and providing updated proof, which shouldn't be too hard since your in college right now.

 

 

 

Fail.

 

 

 

Instead you just told me to suck it up and bow down to your intelligence just because you said so.

 

 

 

PLEASE provide logical "updated" evidence that Evolution is a Fact.

 

 

 

Otherwise its just your word vs mine.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Thanks for evading my post, please provide logical updated evidence that god exists, not the one that's about 2000 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bible doesn't have to be updated all the time like evolution does since it doesn't contradict itself. (*cough*cough*bookofmormon*cough*cough* O:) )

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

Lmao! Thanks for evading my questions and providing updated proof, which shouldn't be too hard since your in college right now.

 

 

 

Fail.

 

 

 

Instead you just told me to suck it up and bow down to your intelligence just because you said so.

 

 

 

PLEASE provide logical "updated" evidence that Evolution is a Fact.

 

 

 

Otherwise its just your word vs mine.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Thanks for evading my post, please provide logical updated evidence that god exists, not the one that's about 2000 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bible doesn't have to be updated all the time like evolution does since it doesn't contradict itself. (*cough*cough*bookofmormon*cough*cough* O:) )

 

The bible contradicted itself a long time ago, when the muslim books said god is muslim, the hindu books said god is hindu, etc etc

[underu2000]

t always physically apparent, and in Christianity, the assurance in the promise of redemption in Jesus. Faith is trust, loyalty and belief, and above all is an obligation in which we are bound to what we have faith in, most of all in Christ Jesus.

 

It may not be the best definition, but I can find verses in the Bible that define it further if you like. :

 

how would you define a hindu's faith?

 

I'm not Hindu, I'm Christian. You should ask someone who is.

 

 

 

Lmao! Thanks for evading my questions and providing updated proof, which shouldn't be too hard since your in college right now.

 

 

 

Fail.

 

 

 

Instead you just told me to suck it up and bow down to your intelligence just because you said so.

 

 

 

PLEASE provide logical "updated" evidence that Evolution is a Fact.

 

 

 

Otherwise its just your word vs mine.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Thanks for evading my post, please provide logical updated evidence that god exists, not the one that's about 2000 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bible doesn't have to be updated all the time like evolution does since it doesn't contradict itself. (*cough*cough*bookofmormon*cough*cough* O:) )

 

The bible contradicted itself a long time ago, when the muslim books said god is muslim, the hindu books said god is hindu, etc etc

 

The Bible does contradict itself, there was a discussion about that around a hundred pages back (it's a long thread), but not in the way you say it. For one thing, the books on Hinduism is completely independent of the Bible, let's not get into their differences. As for the the Quran, it does not contradict the Bible, just adds to it, much like the Bible adds to Judaism. So there isn't much contradiction, and it isn't fair to compare two different holy books, last time i checked this was on the Bible only.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

@underu2000:

 

 

 

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beli ... erlife.htm

 

Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but it is not clear whether Muslims remain in Hell forever. Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally.

 

http://www.religionfacts.com/christiani ... erlife.htm

 

We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead; of the believer to everlasting blessedness and joy with the Lord; of the unbeliever to judgment and everlasting conscious punishment.

 

 

 

Still think the quran doesn't contradict the bible?

 

 

 

Each religion thinks it is the only true faith. Each religion thinks the others will burn in hell.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

Update: Good news, underoo

 

 

 

http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/be ... erlife.htm

 

General Jewish belief is that one need not be Jewish to enjoy Heaven.

 

 

 

Man, you better hope those Jews are right. Otherwise, you're gonna be pissed when you're sitting in hell and the Muslims or Scientologists or Mormons are up there in heaven going "We told you so!"

 

 

 

Of course, you might be the one up there saying "We told you so!"

 

But that's a 1/n chance. I wouldn't bet on it.

[Korskin]

 

(1) Why not? All humans seem to have an underlying behaviourally shown attitude of altruism. It's only recently we gained the knowlege to see that the sick and weak can't progress a gene pool like those that aren't sick and weak can. I choose to stick with the altruism and stay away from social darwinism rhetoric. It's the kind of thing Hitler manipulated in trying to get a 'perfect' master race of blue eyed, blonde haired people. I just think the idea of denying or neglecting life to further a gene pool is dangerously subjective, prone to manipulation, and retarded.

 

I would say that it's the other way around. The one thing that seems certain is that we're all selfish and egoistical. And there are those who believe that there is no such thing as altruism, since helping others is really just a way of making yourself feel better. Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor by eliminating the Jews, perhaps he was just really devoted to help others?

[warri0r45]

 

(1) Why not? All humans seem to have an underlying behaviourally shown attitude of altruism. It's only recently we gained the knowlege to see that the sick and weak can't progress a gene pool like those that aren't sick and weak can. I choose to stick with the altruism and stay away from social darwinism rhetoric. It's the kind of thing Hitler manipulated in trying to get a 'perfect' master race of blue eyed, blonde haired people. I just think the idea of denying or neglecting life to further a gene pool is dangerously subjective, prone to manipulation, and retarded.

 

I would say that it's the other way around. The one thing that seems certain is that we're all selfish and egoistical. And there are those who believe that there is no such thing as altruism, since helping others is really just a way of making yourself feel better. Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor by eliminating the Jews, perhaps he was just really devoted to help others?

 

 

 

You could have a point. Though I don't think selfishness and altruism are mutually exclusive. It's hard to explain society and our ability to (for the most part) coexist without an altruistic quality. Although, you could then argue that all this is is a round about way of setting things up as best we can to minimise labor, disease, starvation, thirst, lonliness etc, for the self i.e. for selfish purposes.

[warren211]

@underu2000:

 

 

 

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beli ... erlife.htm

 

Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but it is not clear whether Muslims remain in Hell forever. Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally.

 

http://www.religionfacts.com/christiani ... erlife.htm

 

We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead; of the believer to everlasting blessedness and joy with the Lord; of the unbeliever to judgment and everlasting conscious punishment.

 

 

 

Still think the quran doesn't contradict the bible?

 

 

 

Each religion thinks it is the only true faith. Each religion thinks the others will burn in hell.

 

 

 

You quoted one part of that article and concluded christians are like that. There are multiple types of christians. I'm a Catholic so of course I'm not welcome here or in a lot of places. In my beliefs and those of others of my faith, we believe that as long as you live a moral life, avoid serious wrongdoings, and feel repentence for your sins, you're just as good in a position to go to heaven as anyone else. Another quote that you seemingly purposely avoided in the article, which was right above your quote, said:

 

 

 

At the end of the age, the bodies of the dead shall be raised. The righteous shall enter into full possession of eternal bliss in the presence of God, and the wicked shall be condemned to eternal death.

 

 

 

as you can see, these people think only the wicked will be sent to hell. Nonbelievers are ok as long as they are willing to accept whatever God is the real God after they see him.

[Rebdragon]

You quoted one part of that article and concluded christians are like that. There are multiple types of christians. I'm a Catholic so of course I'm not welcome here or in a lot of places. In my beliefs and those of others of my faith, we believe that as long as you live a moral life, avoid serious wrongdoings, and feel repentence for your sins, you're just as good in a position to go to heaven as anyone else. Another quote that you seemingly purposely avoided in the article, which was right above your quote, said:

 

Not a Christian.