Ginger_Warrior

Good advice. Another scenario that annoys me is when I'm in the last 5 mins of CW, and my Dad calls me for tea/supper or whatever you want to call it, so I can't raelly keep him waiting. It really gets on my wick when it's a really close game, and you know that your absence would mean the near indefinate demolishing of your time!

The fact is... I think the people that are probably likely to be scammed won't actually have the patience to read the article, and thus be warned about the scam. I think it would actually attract more players to scamming than it would "innoculate" from the scam. As for the post from that other Affliction member, I'll eat my hat then! :-k

There is an article from the Tip.It Times regarding inflation: Inflation and the Runescape Economy Been a while since I've read it, but I think I remember it being relevent. However, we're not analysing causation here. We're looking for answers. I presonally don't know much about economics... they whole system confuses me. For example, why can't countries (in RL) just chop down heaps and heaps of trees, and then just print lots and lots of money? Then they'd be stinking rich? I know it's got something to do with the amount of real gold a country has but... who the heck notices these things? Economics confuses me so much! #-o Having said that, I do know of one way to reduce inflation in the economy. I look at the German post-Versailles Treaty for inspiration here. We all know about the situation then... prices literally doubled every 3 hours. At its worst time, the hyperinflation meant that one egg would cost 80,000,000 German Marks, and that's no exageration. So how did Germany relieve itself from such a dire situation? Well one way I know that they used was an increase in taxation. If a government takes in money though taxation, it can ultimetely destroy this money. This leads to less money in the economy, so the worth of each unit of currency goes up. People have more faith that their currency is worth more, so they sell items for cheaper, and thus inflation is reduced. Indeed, Germany managed to solve this massive issue of inflation by nine months of it being at its worst. Now RS is obviously a lot different from the Real world, but inflation still ulitimetely runs the same. If Jagex were to put more ways of taking money out of the game, then each GP would become worth more, and inflation is reduced. There's a lot of talk about a 80/85/09+ armour sets. Maybe you could make these sets adequetely easy to get, but put an obscenely high price for each set. This is just one example of a money drain Jagex can use to reduce inflation. In answer to your question, the problem of inflation cannot be solved by players - the people in charge of RS, Jagex, need to intervene to actually physically take money away from players.

Before I go on, can I correct the author's head post. The high levels don't hate Jagex, we actually have a lot of respect for them for making this game. We just feel they are misguided, and we're making a stand. I speak as a person, who on several occasions, has ranted on the official forums with great support by high levels, so I think I do speak for the majority of them. Having said that, I think that Jagex hasn't let us down. Saying they've let us down would near enough imply that we think they don't care about us at all. But there's one problem with this - it isn't true. Jagex do try to release updates to keep us higher levels happy. Most of these are actually found in the "In other news..." sections at the bottom of major update pages on the front page of the RS site. The trouble is, they're not the updates we really want. I don't think that Jagex has let me down. I just think that they do try, but near enough all the time I just don't like what they're doing. For example, they thought the Contact! quest would be an update we'd like. How wrong could they have been... there was still no challenge. The problem regarding "high-levels" is that we feel that all the updates go pretty much to younger players, in Jagex's hellbent campaign to attract young, new gamers to RS. We don't like this, because we feel that far from making RS better with the turnover they'll bring in, they'll drag RS into a mind-numbing no-action game with a negative community. We've seen that they primarily try to aim updates at young players, yet they give high levels an update once every now and then to keep them shut up. But it's not working. niether side is fully happy with Jagex, and that kind of strategy will penultimately fail. Jagex needs to make its mind up, regarding whether it is a game for teens/adults (in which case, they need to make the game more combat-based, make the puzzles much harder, and get rid of this "molly cuddle" approach to new players), or whether it is a game for young players (in which case, stay near enough to Status Quo, but remove the 13+ age limit, and make the game much more safer for younger people who know nothing better. Places such as the Wilderness will therefore have to go). The decision is Jagex's, of course, but I personally feel aiming the game at younger players will slowly drag the game into the ground. Therefore, aiming it at teens/adults is a much more right-minded decision.

^ Let's be fair here though... if this kind of thread was on any other site than Tip.It, and if it had been made by anyone else other than the Editor, it would have been locked up in near enough 5 mins of its release. And with respect, Tip.It, there's a bloody good reason why we have this rule!

I can probably think of one more jokey suggestion to increase the overall attitude problem this community of RS has... ban the word "noob" and all derivatives from it. I know this sounds kinda sad, but I was talking to one person in my family at Christmas, and she was talking about the overall attitude problem of the community. She sad that wherever she goes, there's always the word "noob" on about 3 lines of the chat screen. I dunno, but maybe the anonimity the Internet provides has something to do with this. I guess it's easier acting like a so-called "gangsta" by calling people "noob" over a wire than it is to actually go out on the streets in a gang, being genuinly hard... maybe removing the word "noob" would go someway into taking away that element of dominance over another player, and encouraging the integration of the different levels again.

So the message of this article is what... be sinicle about the world around you? Funny... I thought that's how you should be anyway! I'm sorry but this wasn't one of your best articles, and I agree with the post made earlier about Uloveme's thread. All you are doing here is advertising a quick and easy way to making money... it's incredibly irresponsible of you! Also: Really? I've not done the quest, and my friend tells me the furnace there is a bit funny, but even closer than Port Phasmatys? I've looked on the map, and considering the location of the doors and entries into the buildings... I'm sorry Port Phasmatys is still closer.

As far as I know, alching does affect the RS economy because it magically creates heaps and heaps of money. Therefore, the worth of each GP becomes less and less, increasing inflation. But I don't know anything about economics - messes my head up :roll:

That's a very good idea. But here's some food for thought. How about the clan house becomes a clan fort? You could build, like, a castle, forts, towers, and gates... even catapults and other nasty vicious traps like burning oil or [bleep]es and stuff. Then, instead of the problem of pures messing up clan fights and stuff, you could have the fight inside a privately owned plot of land, defending your own land! Say, Jagex, a high level update that most people would be happy with... can you imagine?

I too am doing A levels, one of which is Modern History (and that subject takes A LOT of extra time), and I find myself asking the very same questions. I have also got so many other things apart from college - my GF and just generally going out really. I find myself increasingly contemplating whether to stay or not, but I've never backed down from a fight, and I don't intend to break the habit now! However, what you said in that post is perfect. There is no way Jagex, I feel, can justify the security stronghold as an attempt to appeal to older players - we already know the ins and outs of Internet security. Hell, some of us have actually made the Internet what it is today. It's the younger ones that need reminding about the outside, vicious world lol!

Well, i don't live in the UK, and i was able to make myself a member only then i got my age to 18 to make a card, because this is the cheapest and most convenient way. As for others, they are not members, cause they parents do not trust to use their cards on makin a member, they do not have any other ways to make a membership. All right, u can use e-gold, we have an ability to transfer money to e-gold acc, but that is very tricky. u need to do a lot of additional e-mailing, bank walkin' and so on.. and this way costs much more. So, maybe jagex will not find itself in finacial trouble :D, but if they start to do things more childly, they will obviously loose <18 players and their money. You've still not denied that kids, even those living in the US, can still subscribe via text messaging (Jagex probably invented that system exactly as a solution to the card problem you speak of). And don't tell me we can't... my 14 year old brother pays that way. :wink: Thus, losing a vast bulk of the over 18s would not have any financial complications for Jagex, when twice as many younger players subscribe for every one that goes...

Firstly, as much as I'd like to agree with you on that last sentance, even I have to bite my tongue and say that seemingly no amount of player reaction can deter Jagex from it's current "I feel like doing that kinda update today" attitude. Unless it's in real life... but this beig a world of MMORPGs this simply will never happen. Secondly, as mentioned in my post, it's not just people above the age of 18 that can pay. In the UK, you are actually legally allowed to work at the age of 14 upwards, in most non-dangerous jobs part-time. But since as membership costs only ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã3.20, why would you need a full-time job? Therefore, most "kids" can play, especially considering even those players who don't have jobs have pocket money usually, or their parents pay for them. Don't be so naÃÆÃâÃâïve to think that just because older players quit, Jagex becomes financially doomed...

Another great article, then again I've come to expect nothing less. Editor, you articulate the feelings of the vast majority of players on these forums - don't listen to others who tell otherwise. :) Having said that, I did disagree with one minor point in your article, but everyone seems to have focused on it so I'll correct you nonetheless. You mentioned that people may only pay by themselves at the age of 18. That may be true for US banks (I'm not sure), but Jagex does accept SMS, Telephone and SOLO transactions for payment towards membership. Nearly all 12/13 year olds have mobiles, so can pay by SMS; and most UK banks will issue their younger teens with a SOLO payment option on the Card that comes with their account. I personally have played RS since I was 15, paying by SOLO. Therefore, I don't think the statement about younger players playing free on F2P worlds is actually correct, and I think that argument is unfair to younger players. However, your message of the article still remains true. Although, the last paragraph was shades from my posts on your last article lol. :-k I think it highlights one thing, and one tragic mistake Andrew made from the beginning. They should have really known who their target audience was before they even contemplated designing the game. It's part of the Design Process - a Specification for the product. This vital step seems to have been missed, or entirely ignored. Either way, Jagex started off as a game that appealed to older players, and now it's definetely been reversed to younger players. This isn't bad in itself, but it's produced a game with two different age groups and therefore two different ideologies and attitudes towards gaming and RS - and it's gone to the point where there's massive arguments about the future of RS, with Jagex in the middle, seemingly incapable of pleasing either side. The Specification was never made. Therefore, the target audience was never specified, or has become inconsistent. The bickering over "noobs", "pures" and "kids" is a result of this - it just seems to have only come to the public attention now, probably as the ratio of younger players : older players increases. Like I said in reply to your last article, Jagex needs to make it's mind up now. Not in a few years, or in a few months - NOW

If Jagex can continue to hang on to the older players for longer, those older players can bring in other older players, and those other older players would possibly become members in part just because they have the money to do so. Of note, money is something which younger players do not have directly at their control. Younger players are at the restrictive mercy of their parents. Therefore, if Jagex REALLY wants more money, they need to take measures to hang onto the older, more experienced players. 'Nuff said. ~Mr. Devnull Also, on less of a financial note, it would benefit the overall morale of the RS community if they listened to the older plasyers much more than they are right now. As things stand, the community is full of kids that have been attracted here, because of that advert and their own word-of-mouth. If you made the updates more driven towards what high levels want (and therefore, start to let fansites such as Tip.It have more of a say or invovlement in Jagex's research process), then the rate at which older people join up to the game will increase, and this wil counteract against the percentage of younger, immature players. So therefore, allowing us to go along with Jagex, and not against them, would also have a positive impact on the community. I just hope Jagex doesn't think that the new Capital Latters update as a panacea for this lol.

With respect, the point we are making is that there's been a slow trend in the age limit of 13 not only being reached, but dropping below. When I say "younger, low-levels", I don't mean 13 year-olds. People of your age are perfectly good and able to play this game, and sure you may have grievences, but people of your age group have the ability to look at a problem empathically, logically and analogically; and then make a solution based on those three criteria. One of the problem arises because the kind of players we're talking about (ie. 10 year olds, I've seen as low as an 8 year old playing this game!) don't have that ability. And that's no disrespect to the individual person, but it's just at that age group you haven't developed enough to understand that other people's viewpoints matter. Hence why you get the: "zomg da wip is so pwrd up n it nt far coz i cnt us coz im a pur an jagex ur nubs coz i kep gtin ownd n if ne1 wnts to flm me den i own dem in da wildy n pwn u." Jagex of course isn't in the least bit threatened by these threads, but because it seems so hell-bent on making this game attractive to the younger kids, they'll jump for it. This applies for the rocks at CW, this applies for the barrelchest anchor, this applies for protection prayers. The list that shows how the power of younger pressure infulences Jagex goes on and on. And this is at the real dismay of many of us older players, that do see things in a much more bigger picture, and will look at things like the economy, and how it affects each group of players. Only then do we make up our mind about what should happen - we don't just look at our own personal problems and how we can be benefited from X update by Jagex, and thus only push for our own advantage. Like I said, Jagex needs to make its mind up. You're right, there is no technical age limit. But there is a mental age limit to this game, and if you're just not up to the challenge of facing 16 year olds and above, then this isn't the game for you. Come back when you're older, becasue there's a real problem when the opinions of a tiny minority of people half my age is being put before the majority of older, mid-high levels. I hope that clear things up. We're not stereotyping anyone, we're just saying that in general, the people who Jagex seem to always to listen to are kids. And we're sick to the teeth of it after a year and a half of the game being dumbed down.

Whodey... there's so many flaws in that argument. You're right, more people are joining up to RS everyday. Unfortunetely for Jagex, the rate at which people are leaving is also rising, and it's not just that. Organised protests are starting to occur. There was one today, in World 69, organised on the Official RS forums, about SS. This is an MMORPG for Christ's sake, not real life! Have you ever heard of a protest on an online RPG game? Go to the rants forum - there's fury there, not whining! Secondly, you're right. Jagex doesn't have to listen to us. In the same way that Next doesn't have to know what clothing trends are "in", in the same way that HMV doesn't have to monitor what kind of music is "hot", and in the same way Nintendo doesn't have to pay attention to what its target audience wants. But can you imagine if they didn't? They'd be dead within a few years... if Jagex wants to avoid a similar fate, then they have to start paying attention to what the majority of players want! There is huge confrontation of interests in terms of what low-levels want (more, easy updates) and what older players want (less, high-quality and difficult updates). Jagex is siding with the low-levels, yet it still has a 13+ age limit. People are under the impression this game is for older people, yet Jagex make updates aimed at 10 year olds, and not enough of them to keep the low-levels happy. So far Jagex is entirely succeeding in alienating near enough everyone against them, and if it doesn't make its mind up soon, the protests of the future will make The Editor look like a nursary nurse for writing this article.

^ Agreed. Because after all, that granny that was stupid enough to let the innocent-looking plumber into her house for a 'check-up' deserved to have her pension stolen... :-s

No, I don't have the time nor the desire to. I love RS, starting a protest would only give the impression amongst noobs that I got banned and am very angry and just trying to lash back or something wholly naÃÆÃâÃâïve like that. All that I would urge is for people, if they feel that Jagex are misguided, actually say so, instead of hiding behind the excuse that they don't have to do anything if they don't want to. That's like saying the federal government of America didn't have to do anything in the Civil Rights Movement (which they didn't - they weren't bound to by law) of the mid-20th Century. Don't underestimate your consumer power...

That is a fantastic and perfect analysis of the problems with RS, Jagex and fansites right now. I don't think I could have put that better myself. Great post! Baron I understand that Jagex are under no obligation to listen to us, but it's fast becoming the case where they have two choices: 1) They can choose to ignore the very intelligent and cleverly-run fansites, such as Tip.It, which have given soooo much to the development of this game, and ultimately pay the high price of having a game full of little, inarticulate kiddies who will whine and moan and, in general, drag the game down to its very sorry and painful demise. 2) They can choose to listen to us more and perhaps give fansites such as Tip.It and RuneHQ a bit more of a say in how updates should be made. We're not asking for power. I'm not saying we should have powers to veto updates, rewrite rules or anything like that (hell no!). But I think Tip.It should act more as a consultative body for the games designers to refer to, and check for suggestions. I think RS really does stand on a fault line. It's become the time where, because Jagex has failed to make its mind up yet regarding its target audience, there is a massive confrontation between the older, experienced players (who yearn for some updates their way); and the younger newbies (who seem to have all the updates going their way). Many of the older players, who have valuable suggestions that really oughta be milked for all their worth, are just being alienated by Jagex's stance of releasing as many updates as possible to keep the younger ones happy, and the older players shut up. Jagex really needs to make its mind up if it doesn't want to lose the support of these players. And then there's the issue of fansites. I tell you, Kiara Kat, if I were you; I'd be feeling a massive kick in the teeth right now! The amount of work that you, and the staff here at Tip.It (and the same on other fansites like RuneHQ) have done to help the game along is immense, and yet Jagex seem fit to just shove it right back in your face, and threaten you with a court case! I have a felling Jagex won't be too impressed with this article either, but they really need to stop being so overprotective about their image, and just accept criticism! A game without fansites, or fanbases at least, just cannot exist. Because their fans are in the unknown and just get bored and leave. If Jagex want to get rid of fansites, then they really must be prepared to suffer a big recession in terms of gameplay and interest in RS. Baron, I understand that the best way to help RS is to help Jagex. But we've tried that, and it's not working because Jagex aren't listening to us. And this shows when Jagex threatened Tip.It with a legal case. I don't hate RS, hence why I still play RS, and I've no intentions to quit anytime soon. But there comes a point where you have to stand up for yourself and what you believe in, and that's when people simply aren't listening. I think now is the time for people that disagree with how RS is being run, to argue against Jagex and stop being so conservative. That's why I would say if you don't agree with what how Jagex is dumbing down RS then you need to make your voices heard, instead of hiding behind the excuse of "they have no obligation to".

Probably because they are no position to stop me writing what I like on here... what I write here is Tip.It's decision and if Tip.it ever became as censored as the Official RS Forums are, then I'd be doing exactly the same for Tip.It as I am doing for Jagex... Read closer at my point. I said "full control". Of course they want to keep control of it, but as a lot people keep saying, the baby has to grow someday, and the Gowers need to just 'let it go' a bit. As I said in my post, Jagex have only ever (as far as I know) released one minor update, suggested by a player, to a rule which they really messed up badly. If you read the news on the RS front page (it has now since been deleted), the language and the tone the news article was written in, seemed to imply Jagex didn't actually have a clue what to do, so they really had no option. The fact remains is that probably hardly any suggestions actually get a second look at them. They're not under any obligation to, your right, but it's fast becoming the case where players are getting fed up with half-baked updates that we know we could have done a better job of ourselves, and that we know would appeal to people more our age group. Not dumbed down quests, aimed at 10 year olds quite frankly.

^ But as I said, people can validate and back up pures all they like. However, that isn't going to stop the increasing number of PKers who have just decided to give up fighting people at their own level because a pure comes along and owns them with ancients. And you're right, RuneScape is constantly changing, but one just gets the impression that the udates were good back 4 years ago... now they're just dumbed down for Jagex's new target market - kiddies, and they provide no entertainment whatsoever for more higher levels. You can use yourself as an exception to that, but I think that's the general concensus amongst older, more mature, players.

^ It infuriates me as well. Is the only way to obtain a freedom of speech through legislation? The very essence of a Democracy is that every has a say in how the country is run (although if you looked around the world, Putin for example, you'd swear differently) I dunno, maybe I am being a little bit too aggresive in my approach to Jagex. But the way I look at it it's either gonna be me hinting at Jagex aggresively to do something, or a whole host of younger, less articulate, players who will SPAM up the rants forum. We all seem very bleak here but one thing that I'd like to point out is that RS isn't actually dying... yet. The population of RS is constantly growing, and the stats on Wikipedia seem to get updated to match this every single week. However, I think the problem that Jagex face is exactly the point about "little kiddies". For any game, especially an RPG, there needs to be a group of intellects and creative thinkers, who can come up with new ways that updates can be improved, and how the updates can be executed. With any other company (even Nintendo included in that - and they have the worst record for PR ever, believe me, I've seen it!) this happens. But Jagex constantly push aside this group of people. Sometimes I wonder if us making our suggestions actually put the nail in that suggestion's coffin. Because, as far as I recall, there' only been one suggestion form a player that Jagex have EVER used - a paniced response to the Rule 7 & 9 updates. I'm just starting to get really infuriated. I've been trying to excuse Jagex for a few months now, using the excuse "well they don't have that much staff, and these things take time anyway". This still holds true, but it only counts for updates Jagex builds from start to finish. Jagex are fine to continue their stream of quests, but all I'm asking for is that the suggestions you here from intelligent players really should be listened to a lot more than they are now. Autoers, pures (and no matter what you say, Jagex does not like pures!), scammers, lurers, noobs - the list goes on and on. They still exist. Yet you can bet that there's a very good, simple solution that, although would't get rid of it altogether, would certainly do a lot. For example: Problem - people complaining about noobs in Barbarian Assault. Solution - make them do a quiz upon leaving the tutorial, so they know how to play it, instead of just going clicky-clicky and skipping everything. There are sooo many big problems with RS that I think Jagex just take as part of the game, without belief (or perhaps just apethy) that these things can be combated. Either that or Andrew and Paul want to keep full control over the game. We're not asking for power! We're just asking some kind of ear that listens to our suggestions!

^ Because we do actually like the game, but it's been getting worse over the recent months, and we want to stop this slow, painful reggession...

I think you've actually both missed my point somewhat. If that image didn't prove it to you, then go on the official rants forum and look at the code of conduct - the amount of things you can't rant about, and more importantly, the types of things, are ridiculous, and it just reminds me of a tyranous dictatorship quite frankly. The point of that post was that something incredibly dratic needs to change about how Jagex is run and how it communicates with a) its players (perhaps accepting their suggestions for once, instead of shunning them aside) and B) its fansites (because a game without a fansite to promote it, and aid its development is a pretty doomed game, believe me. The Editor himself touched on this in the "So Who Needs Fansites Anyway?" article) @ Kevin, thanks :D . I think you've kinda contradicted yourself a bit though. You're telling me I'm going too extreme, then you say at the end you can't sit idly by. Maybe I didn't convey that very well... I don't make rants aimed at Jagex, I have actually a hell of a lot of respect for the accomplishments of the Gowers. But there comes a time where enough is enough and a stand must be taken. At the end of the day, they theoretically don't have to listen to any one of us, but if things carry on the way that they are going, I can't really see RS2 lasting for many more years to come. My rants which criticise aspects of the game, relating the problem back to Jagex, are an example of this. But there are obviously other ways, and I would invite any sort of protest to change things right now, becasue the game is slowly becoming worse and worse...

^ Well that maybe very amusing for you, but show a little empathy? Can you imagine the effects it has on the player? They may decide to give up RS completely. Think about the negative impact that would have on the RS community as a whole - players turned away through a few people, who don't feel confident to go to the duel arena, so prey on the vulnurable instead?