compfreak847

How? Walk away from the PJer. Make sure there's no one in 8 or so squares of you and your opponent. It's how most players deal with it. A pjer will not follow you and your friends for 15+ minutes. I have never, with well over 100 hours experience in PVP worlds, seen a PJer follow a specific target for more then a few seconds. If one should ever happen to do so, tele away instead of dying. TB + Entangle + Veracs? Mate, that's not a PJer, that's a PKer. Bit of a difference. A pjer will jump in to spec you when your low HP, not waste 10 seconds teleblocking, binding, and switching to veracs. Eat until their gone, or fight back.

Luring curve is fairly steep - it's very hard to know where to train what, or how to make money. I remember being confused and spending a lot of time walking around exploring when I first joined. Skill tutors don't help that much, the information is too basic and non-specific.

Avoid PJers, don't PK in crowded areas, be fast with a teletab. Pick any of the 3. It's not that hard to stay away from PJers. I would know, I've gotten at least 30 kills with claws. Downed 3 sets of dh in a half hour once, but people have gotten smarter lately.

12 steps isn't an exaggeration, and it's impossible to lure with the closed walls of the tunnels. I was again assuming you had actual experience with this, or are you simply making it up as you go? With piety, kills come almost as fast as spawns in a full world - it's 3-4 hits per gargoyle, sometimes less, and the other one generally spawns less then 2 whip hits before the first one dies. It would be impractical and slow to get the summon on the other one before going back to the first, and with the 3-4 hit death and cramped space, your summon rarely has time to get more then one hit in. Anyway, you've finally realized that your 'get the summon on the far group' theory has been blown out of the water. I'm still wondering, have you even tried this? If so, you wouldn't have argued against it, and you certainly wouldn't have suddenly switched viewpoints :|

No, I'm not at all. Like I said, those die far too fast to fight with a familiar. With your vast experience, you explained to me the ease of setting it on one of the gargoyles from the far group 12 squares away. I'm waiting for the explanation of how one does that without losing a single whip hit, especially when your familiar teleports back to you in a few seconds.

Competition is very, very rare at solo boss killing. There's almost always an open world. All that would happen would be the high level players taking over every kill, or there being enough open worlds for everyone to kill freely.

Actually, it is. The garogyle is 12 steps away from the east side of the cave - you can't run 12 steps, call your summon, and run 12 steps back without missing without missing a single whip hit - more likely, you'll miss 2-3 per kill!

Could be, no idea. I am saying that 15 year olds are generally immature, some more then others.

The problem is also that they don't produce enough to make them worth the hassle. They need to be easier to use and more profitable before they see widespread usage.

Given the (until recent) 13 year old age limitation, 15 years is very, VERY young. Anyone under 25 has an underdeveloped brain, and they generally aren't mature (and never fully mature). It's simple science. In response to the rant: Talk about rose-tinted glasses. Ever since '04 the community has gone UPHILL, growing by leaps and bounds especially after the RWT update that got rid of a lot of people like you. The game has FAR more content, both advanced and simple. There's simply no comparison.

Not threads I've made, threads I've taken over by proving the OP wrong and responding to all posts after he's left. I believe this one is the 'mage\range underpowered in FTP' thread, the same thing you want to turn this thread into.

But your not understanding kill speed. Your making a wild guess based on the speed of kills, and it doesn't work that way as power increases. If your familiar only gets a hit in every now and then, it cannnot do much. To put this into perspective, all that's needed to offset the 6k\h speed boost of a combat familiar at gargoyles is roughly 60 whip hits - meaning that if you lose 1 whip hit on every third monster to get your combat summon engaged across the room (and indeed, your losing a lot more then that) it's not worth it. That's a TINY margin, and the main problem with summons in areas like that.

Yes, I have. Take a look back at my posts. No, it's not. The cliff in the center is large enough that the far corners are outside of the familiars range. Nope, implying that that would have to be done if you really didn't wanna miss much of the familiar's attacks. In reality, your never gonna get all of it done, and the familiar won't get nearly as much XP as the full 12k\h of uninterrupted combat. Thanks for recognizing my point. Yep, I've told you half a dozen times now. Your still not answering how your trying out any of the monsters we mentioned at your summoning level. I'm going to assume you've NEVER tried either a geyser titan, wolpertinger, or fire titan. If you have, feel free to correct me, but from now on I'm going to be basing this off of you not having a clue what your talking about, having never actually tried it yourself.

Then perhaps you could you describe your avatar to me. My browser's glitching and only displaying a blank image. Rating withheld until the avatar comes, I'll edit this in.

I specified at least 5 times, I was adressing the issue of gargoyles the entire time. It simply is. Your familiar is too far out of your range to continue fighting the far gargoyle,and will teleport back to you. I'm not saying it's a detriment; I'm saying it's physically impossible. You can't run over to another monster, whip it, call your familiar, crack the other gargoyle, pick up the drops, and return to the previous gargoyle without losing a stroke or two. I'm not talking about "other monsters", I'm talking about gargoyles. It is utterly impossible to utilize monsters from the seperate group; the far monster will cause the familiar to teleport back. Have you ever actually tried this? =D>

Summons don't do a very good job of tanking. The fact that they attack after you, and generally are after separate monsters, makes the boost minimal compare to a healer. Banking\travel times for armored zombies are under 30 seconds per 20 hour trip due to the extremely close teleport; it is single way, so a combat familiar cannot be used there.

Gladly. We are still talking about Gargoyles. There are only two spaced close together in the Chaos Tunnels, the only known multi area. There are two groups of two, each in the group close together, but the two groups separate by too large of a distance to have a familiar fight in the other group. Because of the fairly slow spawning speed relative to kill speed, the other gargoyle is generally only alive for a hit or two after the other one spawns, and between the clicks required to crack the gargoyle, pick up drops, and the cramped chaos tunnel environment, it is almost impossible to set your familiar on the other monster without losing at least one hit. Indeed, after the 10 minute aggression period, it becomes impossible - one would have to waste a whip hit on the second gargoyle, and would frequently have to wait for spawns. Clear enough? I'm glad your eager for my response. Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. I'm doing neither, so no trolling worries :?

No, it can't. Your summon does NOT go directly to a monster, particularly when that monster is 10 or more squares away. The numbers were already provided, your welcome to look then over a second time Your still not comprehending this. The tunnel is too narrow for any large combat familiar to instantly spawn in the perfect spot - most of the time it has to dance around the monster until it reaches a wide enough spot to engage it in combat. Given that only 3-4 whip hits are required to kill it, the fight is half over before it's anywhere close. You are completely failing to see how a combat familiar works. Let me spell it out for you: You get 1 whip hit in, and the monster flinches before attacking back, just before your whip hits the 2nd time. This is the point at which you can summon a monster, as fast as you can after the first hit. This is ALWAYS how it is in non-aggressive monsters. You are simply proving your inexperience with fighting familiars. Again, I have spent dozens of hours testing familiars, not a 'few pouches'. Slayer level does not reflect experience with high level combat familiars - summoning levels do. You don't even have the summoning level for these monsters! Your experience: 0. Mine: 30+ hours. I really don't see how your trying to make an experience comparison when you have none whatsoever.

You stated that you had added in the banking\task obtaining\running times; I was interested in what numbers you had used. As mentioned in Zarfot's guide, kalphites are limited by spawn speed - you can kill them very quickly upon spawning with a correctly set up cannon, and a familiar will be of much less use. You continue to be mistaken about the speed of a combat familiar - as mentioned earlier, the effect is at most 5-7%. Therefore, a task that is normally completed 3 times as fast thanks to a cannon will obtain less XP from a familiar when compared to a non-familiar task that takes 3 times as long. Basically, 1 task with familiar (20 minutes, 6k XP\h from familiar) + 1 task without (60 minutes, 0k XP\h from familiar) cannot simply be lumped together for 3k XP\h average - it's the flaw in faster tasks. We have already discussed charms from bursting. Melee XP is much harder to obtain then either range or mage; read back into some of my posts for details.

Call isn't instant when monsters are spread out. Your having a difficult time with this. Your summon can't instantly teleport to the perfect spot to fight a monster. Melee familiars offer XP that is 3x as valuable as range or mage. It won't be in anything close to constant combat on a spread out, fast dying monster. I'm arguing against Zarfot on the non summon tasks - your spending less time on a task where you have a combat familiar. The monster isn't going to move much when you run over to pick up drops - the movement square is too small on gargoyles. And obvious it matters on a 3-4 hit monster, your going to have at least 2-3 hits on it before your summon begins to fight :roll:

My point is that faster kills mean a quicker death, and it takes time for a familiar to latch on to a monster - especially when they are spread out. With spread out specters, a melee familiar has to walk a distance each time it switches monsters, and the deaths will be fast from the cannon. My point about faster tasks makes perfect sense, as more time will be spent on non-summon tasks and less on summon tasks. The Taverly dungeon is single combat; pray tell how are you are going to use a combat summon there? Cramped doesn't ruin a combat familiar, but it makes for a significantly larger time dancing - on a 3-4 hit monster like gargoyles, it's a big problem. Major drop rates cannot be assumed from 2-3 tasks. You saw this earlier with some of your profit lists - do you REALLY believe your going to get a whip or two most tasks, and make almost 1m per hour at demons? Results like that are skewing your numbers; they should be as compartmentalized as possible. Since you added in the timings afterward, what are your times for banking\receiving each tasks?

2 of those tasks should be blacklisted (dragons, terrorbirds), using a combat familiar will knock your profit down around 90-100k per task for spectres for a 3k XP boost, making a combat familiar drastically worsen the efficiency of the task. Bloodvelds, dagannoths and kalphites are all 3 cannonable, making the benefit of a combat familiar roughly 1/3rd of a normal task; kalphites are limited by spawn speed, so a combat familiar will have no effect whatsoever on attack speed. Gargoyles are in a tiny, cramped space and are a low hp\high defence monster, with a familiar giving at most ~4k XP boost on a task. Fire giants are spread out, and a combat familiar won't help much there either with the low HP and fast kills. Spiritual mages are insanely fast kills at 75 HP each, a combat familiar has been proven to make a virtually unnoticeable difference at the cost of far more clicks and concentration (which tend to lower rates due to difficulties in picking up drops via jumping). Black demons will also have a cost of 4-5 prayer pots (40k) tacked on, with a small XP boost due to the cramped spaces and extra hopping required. All of those average out to a boost of approx. 2.2-2.4k XP\h if the extra costs associated are not included. A far cry from you magical "15k XP boost" from the summons you've never tried :roll: As for prayer and food, I wasn't aware that GP costs were 'preference". If you have a method of micromanagement to erase the cost of both, I would like to hear it.

See my thread. Range has a max hit almost identical to melee at the level, only it's far faster, more accurate, and cheaper. Head over there if you'd like to be proven wrong, I'll take all comers on that thread.

No, it's not. They both have a specific number - number of extra rannars from a macaw, number of prayer pots saved with a familiar. Your trying to lump every task together and say "15k extra XP from summoning per hour!" despite the fact that you use a combat familiar on 4-6 tasks, and the XP boost is 8-9k\h for the tasks you do. The final boost would be in the area of 2k at the most, requiring much more concentrating to constantly call the familiar and extra pray pot\food\inventory usage, not the 15k number you magically tacked on with no repercussions :roll:

Gf 8-)