ydrasil

And Zarfot's rates didn't take months to acquire? Qeltar having tested every monster doesn't matter, there is only 24 different ones that count here. 2 of which he had never tested. I got these rates from Zarfot's guide. He has approximate charm drop rates for every task (except steel dragons). Please also remember that it isn't actually 144 crimsons per hour at waterfiends. It is the equivalent of that though, with gold/green/blue charms converted into the experience give per crimson (about 4.07 gold charms = 1 crimsons, 2.69 green = 1 crimson, 0.5 blue charms = 1 crimson). You shoudln't use full void melee in my opinion either especially if you're on a Slayer task. You lose the bonus of the Slayer Helmet (which is already better than Void). If it isn't on Slayer, it is hard to say which is better between Void and say Karils. Personally I still think Karils is better. While I am there I just about never use the protect from range prayer, only using it near the end of the trip sometimes. With Karils you can wear "barrows" gloves and a Helm of Neitiznot, which gives an extra 15 strength bonus, which is about 4 damage onto the max hit. That is about equal to the Void's 10% to damage. The gloves also give +12 to crush, but whether 10% attack is better or not i'm not sure. However the defence bonuses of Karils is what settles it to me. We are counting cannon. You proved it has virtually no effect on the rates? When? You have done no such thing. Put simply, cannon gets faster kills, increasing Slayer experience per hour, therefore increasing the amount of charms given, therefore increasing the Summoning experience per hour. I posted earlier the maths that shows the cannon is worth it (from Zarfot's guide), which you also ignored then. You can't say the cost outweighs the benefits either. Zarfot, for the 13.8mil Slayer experience he did while gathering charms gained him profit still and he was using the cannon and piety at every opportunity. He said he used about 80mil overall on the cost of Summoning, and because of what he made from Slayer he broke even. So with Piety and Cannon he made at least 80mil profit. You also neglected to see that was based on only the crimson charms. You also purposely missed out on my edit where I had calculated the the average "crimson" charms per hour with the other charms calculated in. That number is 34.2 crimsons per hour. I also explained why his numbers were alot lower when compared to during Slayer, which you also seemed to have ignored. Banking, which includes setting up invo/pots, getting tasks, in almost every case takes under 3 minutes to do. That time isn't really significant in the long run. I had not expected the Slayer Helmet to give a 15% increase, because as you said, it is to Attack and Strength levels. That doesn't correlate into 15% accuracy and 15% damage. Also, you don't spend 80 minutes on the average duradel task. There is very few tasks that take over an hour. Those are Abyssal Demons, Black Demons, Dark Beasts, Iron/Steel Dragons, Waterfiends. But then again, it comes down to task number. From the moment you finish the task, get to a bank, get a new task, get new inven, get to new monster, takes a very short amount of time: It averages out to pretty much exactly 3 minutes. It takes 2.8 minutes to get to waterfall actually : , as shown above. It is also more than 10% experience boost when you do Slayer efficiently. I mentioned that in my edit, which you neglected to see (it wasn't even in your quote). You also can't really say you had quoted it before I added the edit in as there was an hour and 47 minute gap between the posts, and straight after posting it I went back to Qeltars numbers and then edited my post. So it is actually 3 minutes to bank on average, more tasks take under an hour than what do (also most of Zarfot's numbers were also without competeition). With the Gargoyle's you'll notice Qeltar also used a Whip. A Saradomin Sword is the best weapon to use, followed by any Godsword, and then the Whip. This is because they are weak to crush. Also note Qeltar killed them in the Slayer tower, and they are more spread out. They are also further from a bank. When using the Chaos Tunnels it is far more efficient to use food than Guthans (you are within a very short distance from the bank after all). Though you can complete a task without needing more food anyway. The Slayer Tower is also single combat, so no familiar. He always uses a trimmed achievement cape. A Fire cape has only 2 less prayer bonus, but had +4 strength, +1 to attack and +2 extra to defence bonuses. So even if the difference is so little, his experience rates are already extremeley low. You also keep mentioning that Qeltar has dedicated hours of work for this whole database. Keep in mind, his rates come off of only one hour at that monster. You yourself keep saying that it needs to be tested over hundreds of monsters (which Zarfot has done : ). When he trained Slayer to get the charms for 99 Summoning he gained approximately 13.8mil Slayer experience (as said earlier). He said he averaged 26-27k Slayer xp per hour (he got this rate by timing himself 30 hours online). He also said he about broke even with the costs meaning he made 80mil profit from Slayer whilst using piety and a cannon at every opportunity. That means he took about 520.75 hours to get that much Slayer experience and hence average about 153,623hp/h of profit. He also said that over all that time (including the 14 hours he spent making pouches from charms), he gained 85mil total experience. That means on average he was getting 163,225 experience per hour. So not only does that beat Zombie Monkies overall experience per hour by about 20k, he also gained money. So umm.... Zombie Monkies were more efficient how?

Just because it sounds impossible to do does not make it so. You can't use Qeltar's rates per hour, but you could use his drop percentages. You really want to know? Here is every task from Duradel except for Steel Dragons. (I'll use a gold charm is 86 xp, green is about 130, crimson is 350 and blue can be 700) [hide=Summoning Rates]Aberrant Spectres (cannon+superhuman strength): Up to 500 kills per hour. 60 Gold charms per hour. 25 Green charms per hour. 15 Crimson charms per hour. 30 Blue charms per hour. That is 34,660 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 99 crimsons per hour. Abyssal Demons (superhuman strength): Up to 140 kills per hour. 15 Gold charms per hour. 8 Green charms per hour. 42 Crimson charms per hour. 1 Blue charms per hour. That is 17,730 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 51 crimsons per hour. Black Demons (superhuman strength, no familiar): Up to 140 kills per hour. 32 Gold charms per hour. 15 Green charms per hour. 64 Crimson charms per hour. 1 Blue charms per hour. That is 27,802 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 79 crimsons per hour. (Baby) Black Dragons I do not know the rate, but I get around 20 charms from the task. Somewhere around 9 crimsons per hour. (Mutated) Bloodvelds (cannon+superhuman strength): Up to 280 kills per hour . 131 Gold charms per hour. 16 Green charms per hour. 11 Crimson charms per hour. 2 Blue charms per hour. That is 18,596 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 53 crimsons per hour. Dagannoths (cannon+superhuman strength) Up to 730 kills per hour . 175 Gold charms per hour. 51 Green charms per hour. 29 Crimson charms per hour. 14 Blue charms per hour. That is 41,630 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 119 crimsons per hour. Dark Beasts (cannon+superhuman strength+ task done in one trip): Up to 145 kills per hour. 11 Gold charms per hour. 7 Green charms per hour. 10 Crimson charms per hour. 18 Blue charms per hour. That is 17,956 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 51 crimsons per hour. Dust Devils (superhuman strength, no familiar): Up to 250 kills per hour. 20 Gold charms per hour. 10 Green charms per hour. 60 Crimson charms per hour. 5 Blue charms per hour. That is 27,520 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 78 crimsons per hour. Fire Giants (cannon+superhuman strength+melee at waterfall): Up to 300 kills per hour. 189 Gold charms per hour. 30 Green charms per hour. 21 Crimson charms per hour. 3 Blue charms per hour. That is 29,604 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 84 crimsons per hour. Gargoyles (superhuman strength+saradomin sword on crush): Up to 210 kills per hour. 25 Gold charms per hour. 12 Green charms per hour. 12 Crimson charms per hour. 14 Blue charms per hour. That is 17,710 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 50 crimsons per hour. Goraks give none. Greater Demons (superhuman strength): Up to 220 kills per hour. 19 Gold charms per hour. 19 Green charms per hour. 83 Crimson charms per hour. 2 Blue charms per hour. That is 34,554 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 98 crimsons per hour. Hellhounds (range+cannon in taverly dungeon+hawk eye): Up to 180 kills per hour. 124 Gold charms per hour. 9 Green charms per hour. 10 Crimson charms per hour. 1 Blue charms per hour. That is 16,034 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 45 crimsons per hour. Iron Dragons (superhuman strength, but piety is alot better here): Up to 85 kills per hour. 21 Gold charms per hour. 38 Green charms per hour. 29 Crimson charms per hour. 3 Blue charms per hour. That is 18,996 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 54 crimsons per hour. Kalphites (cannon+superhuman strength): Up to 420 kills per hour. 42 Gold charms per hour. 29 Green charms per hour. 12 Crimson charms per hour. 12 Blue charms per hour. That is 19,982 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 57 crimsons per hour. Mithril Dragons (superhuman strength): Up to 35 kills per hour. 12 Gold charms per hour. 72 Green charms per hour. 23 Crimson charms per hour. 5 Blue charms per hour. That is 21,942 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 62 crimsons per hour. Nechyaels (superhuman strength): Up to 210 kills per hour. 18 Gold charms per hour. 10 Green charms per hour. 69 Crimson charms per hour. 2 Blue charms per hour. That is 28,398 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 81 crimsons per hour. Scabarites (cannon+piety, piety is essential for this area. These rates came from simlpy collecting charms, so it was without a Slayer Helmet.): 30 Gold charms per hour. 13 Green charms per hour. 130 Crimson charms per hour. 1 Blue charms per hour. That is 50,470 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 144 crimsons per hour. Skeletal Wyverns (piety+banking once per task): Up to 90 kills per hour. 18 Gold charms per hour. 3 Green charms per hour. 90 Crimson charms per hour. 3 Blue charms per hour. That is 35,538 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 101 crimsons per hour. Spiritual Mages drop none. Suqahs (cannon+superhuman strength): Up to 450 kills per hour. 13 Gold charms per hour. 13 Green charms per hour. 13 Crimson charms per hour. 13 Blue charms per hour. That is 16,458 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 47 crimsons per hour. Warped Terrorbirds drop none. Waterfiends (saradomin sword, no banking, superhuman strength): Up to 165 kills per hour. 16 Gold charms per hour. 8 Green charms per hour. 132 Crimson charms per hour. 3 Blue charms per hour. That is 50,716 Summoning experience per hour. Approximately equal to 144 crimsons per hour.[/hide] That is every single task Duradel assigns except for Steel Dragons. Only 3 of the tasks do not drop charms. Of the rest, the lowest amount is 45 crimsons per hour, and the highest was 144 (for 2 different tasks). So as for none getting over 50 but three.... only 6 tasks are under 50 and 3 of which are from not dropping charms. So yes, the drop rate of charms from Slayer is well worth it. If you assume each task has an equal chance to be given, from those rates the average is 65 crimsons per hour. Also note, that something I didn't mention was any time there was a decimal, I rounded down also, even if it was say 29.999. So technically, the rate is even slightly higher for each task. Also Steel dragons drop in piles of 3, so it is more than likely they give a high Summoning rate per hour also. Inuashakent used 25k Slayer per hour, which is easily possible for the 'average high level'. I was using mine at 22.5k also. It has been shown in practice people getting summoning to 99 by only getting charms via Slayer. So neither the Slayer rate was wrong or the end level of Summoning. I even showed in my previous post that at 11.25k Slayer experience (which is so stupid as no-one will get that low unless you have stats in the 70s) that you get 28 crimsons per hour on average. So compfreak847's rate of 8-11 is completely made up to try and prove his point. One last thing, I checked Qeltar's rates. You say you got your numbers from him. Now I added up all the crimsons per hour from each slayer task (except baby black dragons and scabarites which he didn't have). Keep in mind that was only the crimsons, not any of the other charms. I then divided that number by 22 (number of different tasks), and got an average of 18.9. So I believe it is safe to say your rate of 8-11 was indeed completely made up and based on absolutely nothing. Even keep in mind that wasn't even doing a Slayer task, not using a cannon on many, not using prayer either. -edit I went through Qeltars rates again, and put them in a spreadsheet. Using the same experience per charm and then converting to simply "crimsons per hour" and got 34.2 crimsons per hour. Now, this isn't on slayer, so you get no bonus from the Slayer Helmet. He never uses stat enhancing prayers either. His rate for Mutated Bloodvelds was without a cannon, which is one of the best tasks to cannon. His hellhounds was from meleeing and no cannon, though in 2 of his tests he did use a Black Mask. Fire giants was based on only melee, without a cannon. Cannon speeds it up alot due to Fire Giants low Defence. With Aberrant Spectres only one of the tests was in the cannon area, and he wore the Slayer helmet and Salve Ammy (e), but he wasn't on a Slayer task either. His main weapon was the Saradomin Godsword, but a Whip and Defender is faster. Also wearing a Slayer Ring. For Skeletal Wyverns, he uses an elemental shield, the Dragonfire shield is alot better. He also only kills one spawn and has to wait between each one. No piety either, piety is great here. For Greater Demons he took guthans but never used it. This would have slowed down the rate at which you kill. For Nechryaels he killed in the Slayer Tower. The spawns are much further apart and it is single combat. For his Dust Devils test in the Chaos Tunnels, he didn't even use super sets. For Mithril Dragons, no Dragonfire Shield. He wore Verac armour and Infinity boots, which doesn't make sense. For Dagannoths no cannon was used, which significantly increases kill rate. With Dark Beasts no cannon was used. Iron/Steel Dragons used no Dragonfire shield. With the Iron Dragons he got 63 kills per hour, with no stat enhancing prayer or Slayer Helmet. I posted above to be 85, so that isn't very far off.

Well there is your problem. Duradel assigns better tasks than Sumona, and in better numbers. We also see that you are now being hypocritical just so it suits you. "Oh but at Dust Devils what about all the time alching". You just said here over the past 50 tasks that you yourself do not alch there and that you use Lunar. So now we have established that you super set every 5 minutes (no need, evrey 10 minutes is sufficient), you use superhuman strength, you can get a new task very quickly. Amazingly that is exactly what I do (except for how often I pot, and the Slayer master). So isn't it amazing with my "much worse" stats, potting less often (which would give reduced experience, but only barely), that I average way higher than what you do? I think that is astounding, and can only surmise that you are purposely downplaying how good Slayer is to make your point. 11 crimsons per hour is abyssmal. Seeing as Slayer would get you well into 90s in Summoning, the average has to be higher. Unless you are actually going to tell me you honestly do not believe that it will not get inot the 90s via Slayer (when others have trained only slayer for charms and have gotten that result)? Keep in mind regardless of how fast you slay, you will always end with the average amount of charms. Want to know what is amazing also? Even if someone you only managed to get 11.5k Slayer xp/h (you'd have to be in the 70s for that really), getting to 99 Slayer from 80 would take 956 hours. That many you would average 10k Summoning experience per hour which is about 28.6 crimsons per hour (to get to 96 Summoning), more than 3x higher higher than what you believe is possible. Keep in mind that your apparent 8 came from without Slayer Helmet and no prayer, so of course it is going to be higher. But your rates are wrong and logic used are wrong. For example in that post you said "plus the 8 crimson charms for 2.6k Summoning XP", which I just above have proved is wrong. [hide=Your Calc's + My response]Next you say this - "meaning 55k XP per hour at 20k loss from 1-99, half of Monkies, meaning redemption in the form of Avansies would grant 237 hours X 400k = 94.8 MILLION GP". I understand the 55k per hour and 20k loss as you implying training at Monkies at half speed. But then 1-99 of what? Redemption from aviansies for what reason? Where did the 237 hours come from? You then say this "plus 4.8m from 'training' at 'monkies' = 99.6 MILLION, the COST of 99 slayer". You then say you made 4.8m from training at monkies at the loss of 20k per hour... shouldn't that have been taken off the 94.8 not added? As it was a "loss" not a "gain". You keep mentioning that on page 10 you explained what you did at each section. This is what you said: Wait a sec.... that explained what now? Anyway, the next thing in your calculations was "If we factor in the XP from Avansies, you would end up wasting considerably more, totaling 1/2 of our numbers below (details also below), or 33.5M". How much experience? You never mentioned it, for all we know you made up a number. 33.5mil.... from what? Where did that come from? So what was next? This - "The numbers multiply even more quickly if we use a lower XP rate; at my figures of 45k XP an hour + 11.25k slayer XP = 56.25k XP total per hour, 90k - 56.25k = 33.75k slayer XP that has to be made up, or 1/4th the total XP lost from training, meaning - 22.5k XP per hour at 10k loss from 1-99, half of zombies - meaning the 'cost' of slayer would be 199.2 MILLION GP". Your rates are far, far off accurate, as it is easily possible to average over 20k slayer xp/h. For some reason you are now doing 1/4 the experience at Zombie Monkies... but why? What possible point does that show? "Oh look if I train 4x as slow at this, that must mean Slayer costs 199.2mil!" See how little sense that makes? Now for the next sentence - "Again, add the XP from avansies - approx. 16.6m XP, factor in that XP from chinchompas, the best method of training, would cost 69 hours and 30 million, plus the 69 hours from avansies giving another 27 million GP lost, plus the XP of 2.4m, meaning another 10 hours of chinchompas and 4.5m cost, making for another 4.5m and 4m from opportunity costs lost, and so on in an infinity decreasing loop, ending with about 67m extra cost tacked on.". Woah, thats just one sentence? Also you are somehow now getting 16.6m from Aviansies with no reasoning of how you obtained that number. Only thing that I think is right that is what half the number as earlier on... but with no explanation as how you got that either. Factor in the xp from chinchompas? What experience? You hadn't mentioned that at all before hand, and someone it is 69 hours and costs 30mil. Somehow also 69 hours at aviansies and another 27mil lost, and somehow 2.4mil experience. Meaning another 10 hours of chinchompas? Where did that come from? None of that makes sense. Your next one is funny - "The final cost: 266.2m GP LOST for 99 slayer, based on time, XP, summoning XP, and drops.". Yet in your entire calculations you never added Summoning experience in or any type of average made from Slayer. Somehow you got to 266.2m loss? It's just like magic! :lol:[/hide] I already mentioned this but you seem to always miss it. I said my calculations were based on 48, not 55 crimsons per hour. You also seem to think it is impossible to get 68k Slayer xp/h, keep in mind I never said that was the average but that was with maxed stats and piety and while on Slayer. Since that is also the 3rd slowest task there is, every other task only gets higher.

Can't you give a straight answer? What were the monsters? From what you have said you use Sumona which is one possibl reason for the lowered rate. Did you use pure/super sets? What did you wear when killing them? Did you waste time by alching there (as you always keep mentiong)? It is possible to kill up to 140 Black Demons per hour with superhuman strength. They have about a 46% crimson charm drop rate meaning you will get 64 crimsons per hour on average. You'll also get approximately 32 gold charms, the equivalent of about 7.9 crimsons. You'll also get 15 green charms, the equivalent of about 5.8 crimsons and also maybe 1 blue charm, worth a bit over 2 crimsons. That is the equivalent of 80 crimsons per hour for Blace Demons. I checked Qeltar's beastiary, the reason his is so low is that it wasn't during Slayer, he got 98 kills in one hour. He also didn't use a Fire Cape, which would increase the kill rate just slightly. Also, he more than likely did not use any stat enhancing prayer. I could do the same thing for Dust Devils, but simply with a 24% drop rate, you can get 60 crimsons + whatever other charms per hour. His average doesn't matter as it wasn't during Slayer. Using minimal equipment and no stat enhancing prayer. All of these factors increases the average per hour drammatically. I can't do them because I've no idea what rates you were using. Even still, I will read through them again, but I know more than likely I will feel the same way about it unless you make it clear.

That is still proof. Keep that rate is that much experience per hour. Don't tell me I did anything special to get that many kills either, all I did was make sure I was always attacking a Dust Devil. My numbers are not far above what everyone else has posted either. One person even said that it averages at 65k melee xp/h as I said. What generally accepted averages anyway? The fact that I and a few others have disagreed of your extremeley pathetic rate must mean it isn't generally accepted. Also, "certain slayer monsters"? Which monsters? How did you kill them? Did you use super/pure sets? Did you use prayer (superhuman strength)? You can't simply say I did a task and it is within an accepted average. No conclusion can be made from that. Getting 55 per hour reinforces your point? Pray tell how it did that? Keep in mind that number was from Inuashakent saying it gets you to 96 Summoning (which I agree with). However, I only use 8.8Mil experience instead and the rate 48 crimsons per hour. Keep in mind that isn't just crimsons, that is gold/green/blue factored in on top of the crimson you receive to being 48. I explained that in my post also. But hell, I seem to have found your problem. You're using Sumona. You'll average alot better experience and charms when using Duradel. I attained the number of 55 by working out how long it would take to get from 80-99 Slayer (11mil experience) at the rate of 22.5k Slayer xp/h (higher can easily be averaged). From that same amount of time you also receive enough charms for 96 Summoning. That means 19,330 summoning experience per hour. Next I worked out the average experience per crimson from 52-96 Summoning was, it was approximately 350 each. 19,330/350 = 55 crimsons per hour. Maybe not impossibly, but since you can't or won't redo them in a clearer way so that others may understand them, it doesn't really show anything. There were certain sections where I understood what you were doing, but most of it was far from being comprehensible.

The equations I was talking about was when you somehow arrived at 266mil lose from Slayer. It isn't my fault either, you said yourself it was confusing, and I agree that is the case. Since I can never prove them apparently (even though that vid I posted did prove the Dust Devils one), how about you actually do them as a task. See what you get. As was shown in my vid that is what I averaged. I even had another task of them after that (my 100th task in a row : ), there was 198. I summoned a Unicorn at the start and I finished with 3:30 on it. However I also had an evil bob random when the timer was at 8:00, I got out of it at 6:30, meaning it took 49 minutes approximately to get 83,160 melee xp. That extrapolates to about 102k per hour. The 55 crimsons per hour comes from simple math. Are you denying the calculations were wrong? Seriously though, I have shown that other people can get those rates, that I myself average it with relative ease, explained the rates and shown mathematically it is more efficient overall. There is always a way to prove something, just those who choose to ignore it because they don't wish to be wrong. You keep saying you don't believe my rates, but why not? My stats are only just over 90 so it should be accurate for the 'average high level player'. You don't believe them because you think they are impossible to achieve? I've already proved otherwise. Also it doesn't matter about the rate at Steel/Iron drags, as I explained earlier. Nearly all players block them, making the next slowest tasks Skeletal Wyverns and Greater Demons. Do a task of either (and if possible vid part of it), and see what you get. Skeletal Wyverns, while they may be slow experience, the rate at which they drop crimson charms is very high (over 100% of them, they drop in piles of 2).

55 crimsons isn't just for crimsons. That is with gold/green/blue factored in, which then averages at 55. However that was getting to 9.6mil Summoning experience, my earlier one was based on 8.8mil. Actually I have, and you showed what? Nat least 4 times now I have asked you too explain the calculations. Seeing as you refuse to do that, nor even mention them, it leads me to believe they are indeed wrong. In my last post I tried to show a cannon is far from being inefficient, which you seem to ignore again. You don't attempt to give any information about other than saying it is inefficient, and expecting people to believe you. As for Hitpoints, you'll find you are wrong there. Per hour at Zombie Monkies you gain 33.3k and while doing Slayer you get about 21.7k per hour. Take that out of my calculations and the overall experience per hour for Zombie Monkies is at 110k at -40kgp. With Slayer, that leaves it at 118k per hour at (what you say) +50k per hour. Now look at that, more expereince per hour and do not lose money. We are only arguing about combat experience... that is what you said.... correct if i'm wrong (but i'm not), are Range and Hitpoints not also combat skills? You can't them out simply because you want to, it makes the calculations wrong. Also, instead of even mentioning the calculation at the top of my post, you ignored it. Calculating Summoning in at 48 crimsons per hour compared to your 8 made it more efficient. However, seeing as that showed you were wrong, I guess it is only fair you ignore it. As that seems to be the only thing you really do from what i've seen. Also about the Rock Lobsters, you don't get 180 crimsons per hour when bursting. You do get 180 crimsons per hour when barraging though. Each barrage costs 1,964 at mid price (waters bought from store though), and you use 540 per hour. Factor in the other charms gets you to the equivalanet of about 228 'crimsons'. It costs 1,060,560gp/h to do this. Therefore you need to make more than 757,543gp/h without the experience of Hitpoints and Magic factored in. That is also using the 9 Lobster spot. With bursting, in the 6 Lobster area, you use 750 casts per hour for 150 crimsons per hour. Factoring in the other charms gets to the equivalent of 189 'crimsons' per hour. At 1,068 per burst you use up 801k/h. Meaning you need to make 809,521gp/h for it to be more efficient. However, if you bursted in the 9 Lobster area, it would work out cheaper, but you'd get less charms per hour. I'm not sure of the rate for bursting there. So from that, Barraging is more efficient than bursting :

I can't believe you still keep saying that. When have I ever said I believed the average melee xp/h while doing Slayer was 90k? You keep saying that I believe that, when I have never said that. I have said, I believe to be true, and I have given a multitude of evidence that places it around 70k per hour. However, I dropped it down to 65k, as that is more than possible. How can you say you've proven something when you haven't either. You originally tried to prove with just melee xp/h, and got it to be 96k would be needed with Slayer. However, you had excluded Summoning. You then proceeded to say if you average 8 crimsons per hour, when in fact he rate is the equivalent of 48 per hour, that is 6x higher. Seince at your rate of 8, it dropped by 6k/h, therefore at 48, would it not drop 36k? That brings the rate down to 60k per hour. Now also factoring that the cannon provides you with ample Range experience of the course of training that it gets to 99. So it becomes 60k minus whatever you get from cannon. The experience isn't minimal. Yes it would be inefficient however, that would only be so if you did Slayer only with a cannon. The cannon doesn't steal alot of the experiences. Sure it may take some, but in that case you are killing alot more per hour with than without. 1000 cannonballs will on average get about 25k experience from what I have seen. That same amount spent on chinchompas will result in 284.2 of them, at about 35.5k experience whilst taking up about 9 minutes to use. Not entirely sure on the experience per chinchompa either. Now ideally chinchompas do seem to get more experience for the same amount of money. However, using the cannon takes very little time. All you do is set it up and occasionally fill it every so often. In nearly all cases you never have to move far away from the cannon, and takes up no time in most cases to fill it up. So per task, the extra time taken will be maybe up to 2 minutes. There is also the matter of how many cannonballs you will use in that time, which depends on the task. In any case because no matter how many you use, the additional time taken by using the cannon always remains small at around 2 minutes out of the hour. Even still, it is hard to say, as the time taken to use cannon is almsot non-existant, you are still limited to the amount it can fire per hour. While it may be less efficient purely on Range experience when compared to chinchompas it is extremely efficient when used on Slayer. You aren't arguing about the efficiency of Slayer experience. You have only been complaining at how it is less melee xp/h. If you are referring to the calculations where you someone got to 266.2mil, they were far from easy to read. I wasn't "skirting" around anything as much as you'd like to blame it on that. I was merely trying to show that since you believed the absolute max experience you could get per hour was 80k and that was if lucky. My plan was to show that if you could be wrong here (which you were), that is it not also possible that you are wrong about your magic average maximum of 45k melee xp/h during Slayer? Done no specific testing, yet you would contradict someone who has? Please elaborate, what were your observations, keep in mind according to you, you aren't allowed to extrapolate. When I extrapolated with Dust Devils you said it wasn't an accurate test. The average high level player, isn't going to be averaging 45k melee xp/h whilst doing Slayer. That would require you averaged 12.5k Slayer xp/h (since according to you cannon is bad, when it is far from it), and since the averaged high level Slayer will also bloack Iron/Steel Dragons and sometimes Skeletal Wyverns. The next slowest task (please note I am excluding Mithril Dragons due to their rarity and small numbers) would be Greater Demons. Maxed stats and piety will get you 21k per hour, drop back to superhuman strength and it is 19k. Drop the stats down more and if the player is really going bad, maybe 15k Slayer xp/h. That is 60k as a bare minimum. You say I do not seem to be sticking to 65k per hour... how ignorant are you? I have based every single calculation I have done on 65k being the average. Not to mention that your supposed loss has yet to be proven as I am pretty sure no-one can understand it. I said this above but i'll show it here. 96 Summoning is about 9,600,000 experience. Take off 52 and you are at about 9,450,000. Gaining 22.5k Slayer xp/h (easily possible). That means if you started at 80 Slayer, you get 488.9 hours. That means you average 19,329 Summoning xp/h. From 52-96 that requires 26.9k of just crimsons (which is what compfreak847 bases his calculations on) This results in 55 Crimsons per hour on average. This also means for each crimson you average 351.4 experience. I'll put this simply. I have shown that overall, for all experience, that Slayer is more efficient. That experience ranges over Attack/Strength/Defence/Range/Hitpoints/Slayer/Summoning. Just because it isn't the one skill, doesn't make it less efficient.

Sorry my mistake, forgot that it was because they give more Slayer experience per kill. They also give +10% to Attack and Strength, but i'm not sure if that stacks with the Slayer Helmet, although since it doesn't with say the Salve Ammy, it probably won't here. So yes 68k was max, my mistake. Also note i'm not saying that it is a guide to xp/h always, but from what compfreak847 has been saying he has been talking about with stats at around 90. So ideally, the rates aren't going to drop by that much. Peronally I have 94 in each Attack/Strength/Defence and I'd say I average about 65k per hour Solidus 77, I think compfreak847 mention that a few pages back.

That was just Attack/Strength/Defence experience. I say melee instead as you can train Attack, Defence or Controlled (Abyssal Whip). As In my previous post, in the hide tag, that shows experience rates with piety and maxed stats. Iron Dragons give 17k Slayer xp per hour or up to 19k with Dragon Slayer gloves. Since that is single combat, no combat familiar is being used, resulting in 68-76k melee xp/h. I agree you did say Slayer and Hitpoints should be taken out.... but you never said why. All you said was something about Slayer not being melee therefore shouldn't be included. It doesn't matter if it isn't melee, it is still experience you are gaining along with the Hitpoints. If you took Hitpoints out, Slayer would average faster overall experience completely, and could even lose slightly more money than Zombie Monkies and still be more efficient. You can't say the reults would be the same either way. In either case, you are gaining different amount of Slayer xp/h, it isn't a constant, so it can't be removed. Same with Hitpoints, you were getting 33.3k per hour and Slayer was about 21.7k per hour, not a constant, and hence can't be taken out. You are wrong about a fair comparions also. The only reason it is unfair, is when you take out sections of the experience gained. Then it becomes an invalid test. Now it is my turn to laugh. So many times I have asked now, and not once have you responded. Where did you get your rates for Slayer from then? (Bolded, in Italics and Underlined, just so you can't miss it) I also asked if you could show your calculations in a way others can understand. You didn't nor did you even at least respond. I can only surmise that you keep ignoring that because it may be wrong and if you have fancy numbers others might believe you. One final thing I want to add to what I addressed in my previous post. About the "real test" you said needs to be done to prove the experience rate. Say for example, that I did manage to get times for 10 tasks of Dust Devils, and they added out to about 1710 Dust Devils in total. Also the total time spent killing them was 7 hours, equaling approximately 103k melee xp/h. If I did that, timed every task, calculated profit every task... would you even believe it? I believe you wouldn't and simply say I faked. I got to that conclusion due to your responses to every post on this thread and unwilling to accept anything other than your made up rates.

So instead of seeing that you were wrong, you'll simply say it wasn't a proper test... I knew you were going to try and find some excuse as to why it was wrong. At the pace I was killing them, that extrapolates to 244 kills per hour, regardless of what you think. Also, when I did finish the task, my unicorn had 8:30 left on it. That means it took 45 minutes and 30 seconds. So not only for that 4:38 minutes of testing, the whole task being completed was still at over 100k xp/h rate. My numbers are not unbelieveable. I have examples, shown evidence of other people attaining them, even performed a test as proof. You have done absolutely nothing but say "but your wrong! and i'm right!". You say you it only gets 50k melee xp/h, where did you get that number from? I asked you before but you never responded. You say you 50k gp/h profit, again, where did you get that from? Making up rates doesn't show anything other than your unwillingness to look beyond what you believe to be true. I again refer you to this picture from Zarfot's guide: [hide=Slayer xp/h][/hide] It shows that even steel dragons get 14k Slayer xp/h, meaning that it is 56k melee xp/h as a bare minimum. Most people block Steel and Iron dragons also, and sometimes Skeletal Wyverns. This means that the next lowest is Greater Demons at 21k Slayer xp/h with 84k Melee xp/h. It is easily fair to say that the experience averages at 70k melee xp/h or over. I mentioned several times in my post that your calculations were indeed messy (as inbadly set out), and was extremelly hard to follow. I also asked if you could make it clearer, but you also chose to ignore that. I didn't ignore them, I read through it many times and still had no idea at each point what you were trying to show. Only thing I can think of is you did this purposely in order for no-one else to understand them and simply accept them as correct. Finally, with your last statement. You left out a majority of the experience rates, as you also get Range experience from the cannon, you get Hitpoints experience, Slayer and Summoning experience also. That experience is not worthless and it adds up. P.S Please show the calculations in a way that at least someone (other than you) can understand. If no-one else can understand them, how do we know you didn't make them up (like you did with your experience rates and such)?

You really should have ready the previous pages lol : . I wasn't making anything up, 65k was the melee xp/h not Slayer, and I am sure I said over 65k also :thumbsup: . You can get maybe 18-19k Slayer xp/h from meleeing, but I have them blocked anyway. Was just using them as an example, as every task extrcept for Mithril Dragons you can get over 65k melee xp/h I never said it was an average. If you read the past few pages you would have seen what this was about. I mentioned a few pages back that these were faster than Monkies whilst on Slayer, and said it could get over 100k melee xp/h without a combat familiar. Compfreak847 refused to acknowledged that and said you'd be lucky to get 80k per hour, and that they were in no way, shape, or form better than Monkies. Was just intending to prove comp wrong there. Also thanking for agreeing with me - "it still averages to about 65-70k per hour." That is what I have been saying this whole time, and he refuses to believe that also.

Just to settle once and for all this one thing about Dust Devils, and your supposed max 80k melee xp/h. I got them as a task so I it'd be great to time them, but to make sure you wouldn't say I just faked them or whatever other reason you have used, I vidded it. As can be seen, I started attack at 0:13, and finished at 4:38. In that time I killed 18 Dust Devils (feel free to check). So therefore, in 4:25 I killed 18 Dust Devils, which is 265 seconds. 265/3,600 = 0.0736. 18/0.0736 = 244.53 kills per hour. 244.53*105 = 25,675.47 Slayer xp/h. 25,675.47*4 = 102,701.9 melee xp/h. As you saw, that was without a combat familiar. Would have been higher with. But as you have said, you can't even get that rate at Zombie Monkies. Also, I gained money from this task, as well as charms. So contrary to what you said, In no way, shape or form, are Zombie Monkies better than Dust Devils on Slayer. Also note I made a few mistakes in this test, my stats are also not maxed. So even higher is possible. I incurred a cost of 44,983 for the task of 181. The drops I picked up were worth 75,393 (also note I didn't pick up everything as i brought too much food and prayer potions which I didn't need. The excess may of been an extra 21k or so). Both of these were from mid GE prices. I also received 14 gold, 9 green, 37 crimson and 4 blue charms. The equivalent of only 52 crimsons for me, which would have cost 189k had I been bursting for them at the price of 4.5k each. Also since the average points received each task is 24, that means I could afford 69% of a magic dart set, meaning I also received the equivalent of 58,457gp for finishing the task. All of this put together means I made the equivalent of 277,867 profit from this task. The task also only took about 45 minutes. Hopefully in seeing this, you'll finally notice that the rates can be alot higher than what you state. This applies to all other tasks also.

I'll have to break this paragraph up to respond to each part Gold Charms give 86 xp each with Barker Toads, which is personally what I make. I don't know why you're saying you would need 36 golds per hour either... As for that someone who trained Summoning up using only Slayer, Zarfot of course : . He already had 99 at the time when he started. He obtained his charms only via Slayer. I dug up the '99 slayer gets your summoning in the mid 90s' from the fact of how often charms drop. They effectively get a ratio of 0.7:1 up to 0.8:1 of Summoning:Slayer experience. The 8.6-9.8k came from your rates. I didn't randomly state 17.5k either, that came from the rate of 20-25k Slayer xp/h. 11,000,000/22,500 = 488.9 hours 8,800,000/488.9 = 18,000 (Summoning xp/hours, slightly over 17.5k) People who train Slayer should be using a cannon. It is definately worth the added experience per hour for the cost. I never said it was 90k combat xp per hour, I stated it was 65k. for melee. That means it took 16.25k Slayer xp for just the melee. 6.75k Slayer experience for the cannon, which is 17.5k Range experience per hour. 65k per hour isn't really that high. That rate can even be achieved on Iron drags for God's sake, why do you keep saying it is high? I also never said 20k per hour comes from the cannon either. I said it was about 8.75k. Slayer experience has to stay in the equation as you do also receive it. As for the rarity of cannonable tasks... out of the 24 he assignes, 12 are cannonable. 50% isn't very rare :thumbsup: . Are you saying I left Hitpoints out, or that it should be? Because I left it in. Again, i'm not sure where you got 8 crimsons per hour. Assume you get a task of 180 Nechryaels, you would receive approximately 60 Crimsons, 16 gold, 9 green and maybe 1 blue. That would last 51 and a half minutes approximately, for the rate to drop to 8 crimsons per hour, for the next 7 tasks would have to give no charms what so ever, that isn't going to happen. This next few parts are very messy to me, and hard to understand. I assume you are saying that, you are training at half the rate at Monkies here. At only 55k compared to 110k, and at half the loss per hour. And that you use the other half to gain money at Aviansie. Meaning you spent 474 hours to get one skill from 1-99 and made 94.8Mil. Not sure where you got 4.8Mil from training at monkies either, or how that is the cost of Slayer. I've been trying to show Slayer sin't as slow as you say it is, but you have been doing the opposite and made your rate even lower. Steel Dragons, melee only, gets more Slayer and melee xp/h than what you have said, even faster than the 50k melee xp/h rate. That aths doesn't make much sense to be either, could you please try to make it clearer? I don't know why you have chinchompas either. You say factor that xp in, but you haven't it before now in this post. I made mine as easy to follow as I could, and almost completely certain I made no mistakes also. I don't recal sacrifcing any experience in training Slayer, as it averages overall being effectively the same as Zombies. You took so many things out of my calculations simply because what? You don't think Slayer experience is worth it? Or hitpoints for that matter? You also took the cannon out of it, which made no sense. I'll try to simplify this as much as I can: Start at 80 Slayer and 52 Summoning. You gain 11Mil Slayer experience, and also gain 8.8Mil Summoning experience You get 22.5k Slayer xp/h. 80-99 Slayer takes 488.9 Hours Therefore you average 18k Summoning xp/h. You gain 65k melee xp/h. (22,500-16,250)*2 = 12,500 Range xp/h 65,000/3 = 21.7k Hitpoints xp/h. That all adds up to 139.6k Overall xp/h. Rounded off to 140k At Zombie Monkies: 100k melee xp/h. 33.3k Hitpoints xp/h. 10k xp/h from familiar. That all adds up to 143.3k Overall xp/h. Rounded off to 143k Now for the Difference (I do it different to you, but this is correct): In one hour training by Slayer gets you 140k xp. To get 140k xp from Zombies, you would have to be there for (140,000/143,000)*3,600 = 3,524.5 seconds. This leaves you with 3,600-3,524.5 = 75.5 second spare. The difference in price was 90k gp. Therefore within 75.5 seconds, you need to make 90k gp for them to be equal. Higher to be more efficient. To get that much money within 75.5 seconds, you would need to be making (3,600/75.5)*90,000 = 4.29Mil per hour. There is no mistakes there, go through the calculations yourself and you will get the same number. The only reason you still think that you lose that much by Slayer, is because you think you are only getting 45k xp/h via Slayer. 65k is more than possible on every task except for Mithril Dragons. So if every task you can get 65k per hour.... how can the rate be 45k? Unless you aare suggesting that you get Mithril Dragon tasks 70% of the time or so. 450k profit is only equivalent to 1.7 Dragon Boots per hour. Since you can get 300 kills per hour with Slayer, maybe 250 kills per hour without Slayer Helmet (although I don't think the rate woulld drop that much). Therefore to get 1.7 boots per hour on average, the drop rate would have to be at maximum 1 per 147 kills. Since the drop rate s between 1 in 100 to 1 in 150, I think 450k profit per hour is more than possible. Also 250 kills per hour is 75k melee xp/h.

From what I have seen and heard, that the charms from Slayer will get you into the 90s. That the Summoning to Slayer ratio is about 0.7:1 up to 0.8:1. This results in 7.7-8.8m Summoning experience. That is about level 94-95. Now using your times of 900 hours of slaying for 99 Slayer, this means on average you will also gain 8.6-9.8k Summoning experience per hour which is about 27 or so Crimsons worth per hour. Using what I believe can be averaged, 20-25k Slayer xp/h and i'll say 65k of melee xp/h (though it can be higher). You could get up to 20k Summoning experience per hour. However, say it is about 17.5k. That means on average per hour you gain around 22.5k Slayer, 65k Melee, (not sure how much experience you get per damage with cannon, I think it is 2x) so 12.5k Range, 17.5k Summoning experience per hour. In total that is 117.5k experience per hour (without Hitpoints), or 140k experience per hour (with Hitpoints. Zombie Monkies gains about 100k Melee xp/h and 10k extra from a familiar. That is about 143k experience per hour with Hitpoints. As you see, the exprience difference is minimal, but Slayer makes money compared to the Monkies loss. With Slayer, as you say, making 50k per hour, Monkies losing 40k per hour, you would need to be able to make approximately 4.32Mil per hour, for it to be more efficient. Even with Slayer making only 10k per hour, you need to be able to make 2.88Mil per hour on average. For the Difference to brought down to 1Mil, you would have to lose 20k per hour during Slayer. Even still, the average player can't. Even at Slayer losing 30k per hour a player would need to make 500k/h. The thing is, even if someone Slayer lost 20k per hour (which isn't really possible ;) ), and someone could make just over 1mil per hour on average, I still would say it isn't worth doing. Mathematically shown, that yes Zombie Monkies can be more efficient. However, since no-one can make that much continuously every hour. From this, I would say Slayer is still better. There is reasons for killing them outside of Slayer other than fun. Some people simply cannot make alot of money per hour. It is easier for them to train on say Spiritual Mages, getting maybe 60-80k xp/h (or whatever it is when you camp there), while gaining 450k profit per hour. If I made any mistakes, feel free to point them out. Hate to think I did all that and forgot to move a decimal or something : .

Four higher Strength may allow you to hit one damge more, far from significant. You have brought this up many time, but i've not even asked yet... how did you arrive at only 50k xp/h while doing Slayer? You can't say you have proven anything without actually explaining how you even managed to come up with that experience rate. My idea is that it is indeed higher than your stated rate easily. I would say it is possible to average at or slightly below 70k, it may even be higher. I don't mean anything bad by this, but Inuashakent's rate doesn't mean it is the average either. By seeing his guide on Slayer he says that he skips some tasks that have high Slayer xp/h rates (reason doesn't matter). I'm not saying he should have to do these tasks, but if done they would increase the average xp/h. They may not be the best way to make money, but getting boots results in about 450k per hour and getting whips is about 300k I think. It is still ok money and provides experience. Think about it this way, if everyone had your point of view on Slayer and nearly no-one raised it. By that simple fact alone more people would train it because the drops would be worth more. Regardless of what you think, Slayer is and always will be good experience. Now I have a question, answer with what you believe is as close to correct as you can. If you started at say 80 Slayer and 52 summoning, went for 99 Slayer, by the time you get there, what level do you think the charms would get you to? I'll explain why after you respond.

I don't see how you have "much" better stats than me. You have 1 better in Attack, 4 in Strength, 3 in Defence (makes no difference at Zombie Monkies), 5 in Range, which doesn't change anything, and mage and hp are the same. You also have 1 high in Summoning, which gains nothing new and doesn't have much affect on this, and finally 9 better in Prayer. Simply longer lasting prayer, but that doesn't influence how good the task goes. Better equipment? Do you even know what I use? You think my stating illogical statements that it makes your point more valid? Better Prayers... I use either superhuman strength of Piety on all tasks. More pots... as you said somewhere earlier that potting every 5 levels under max compared to 10 isn't going to have a significant difference. Zombie Monkies are necessarily better, and they aren't 100% efficient. So no you can't state truthfully. I have read all the posts in this rant. Again you prove that you do not read what I am saying either. When did I say it averages over 90k per hour? I have stated several times it doesn't, but that it is alot higher than what you have been stating.

I was basing mine on simply crimsons, and they are far from better than Rock Lobsters. I get approximately 180-190 crimsons per hour at Rock Lobsters (that is only crimsons). Add to that approximately 90-95 gold, 45 or so green and around 4-6 blue. Yes it is true, it is possible to pick up drops whilst losing no attack time. Click to pick up just as you attack, and then click attack again. Amazingly that accomplishes picking up th drop and no lose in attack time. You don't use guthans on Dust Devils, so that doesn't matter. This was with no familiar also remember. I am sure someone can bring food with them, and plenty spare in a BOB such as a spirit terrorbird at only 52 Summoning. Guthans can be replaced with so many more healing methods as it is. I have it, but I don't use as in nearly every task I have more than enough methods to stay at high Hitpoints. It is more efficient to use a whip compared to the warpsear also, hence why food is more efficient if you don't need to bank. Who mentioned picking up "every" drop either? Inventory space, with 2 super sets and 4 prayer potions, a teleport and other items, you still have half of your inventory spare. More than enoguh food to last the task and more than enough space for drops. Why do you even mention if you don't aclh cash drops alot? Are you not able to read anything I post? I have said many times now, that you don't alch there. You pick up the drops, bank them, and alch them later. You are still alching them. How am I a "misinformed idiot" when I back up everything I have said with exmaples and shown that others have done this as well. Try it yourself, so far you have done nothing but contradict what I have shown by simply saying "But I can't get that! So no-one else can! End of discussion!". Instead of attempting to disregard it for no logical reason, why not perform a test? Keep in mind it is even possible to get up to 112k per hour with piety and without a familiar still. #2 We have not been using piety in the slayer calculations. All of mine were of superhuman strength which uses up a very minimal amount of prayer. #4 You haven't disproved anything but come up with fake numbers and called them facts. Everything you have said is so contradictory. You specifically say that your rates were for the average player at 50k xp/h. Now you are saying that it is for higher level players bordering on level 90 stats. A person with level 90 stats is not going to be getting such a low rate as you suggest.

I never mentioned how many crimsons per hour, but it would be approximately 130, as the drop rate is approximately 80%. Now you are being hypocritical are you not? You tell me not to focus on the one task, there was 8 tasks. Since you think one isn't right... oh that must mean none of them are! These numbers are from Zarfot's guide too, who you have said you agree with. Yet you do nothing but disagree with every single one. Instead of just saying "I can't get those rates so they must be wrong!", try testing them yourself. Again I never said the average experience was over 90k, but this shows that it is alot higher than what you keep saying at "below 50k". The numbers do not include Hitpoints experience, and yes that was based upon the equivalent of 250 kills per hour. If you have used a Slayer Helm on Dust Devils, you will see how easy they are to hit, and it is quite possible to reach this. Actually 3600/250 = 14.4 seconds : . I mentioned this before, you don't alch while you are there. Most Slayers will use Lunar Magic to get new tasks and don't have access to that spell. Healing isn't a problem, and takes up an extremely little amount of time. It is also easily possible to pick up drops without once slowing down your attack rate. So all those variables you mentioned don't matter as they have no significant effect on how fast you can kill them.

Now I am utterly confused. You say they are the 3rd best crimson charm dropped in the game, yet you say you can only get 8 per hour!? You honestly believe that in killing these for an hour results in only 8 crimsons per hour? And that is when you're lucky? Well... it seems I could conclude that you either ignore anything that opposes what you say (when it is right too) and that you are very misinformed. You do not need to use piety, with only superhuman strength you can get up to 26.2k Slayer xp/h. I only keep bring it up due to your unwillingness to see that you are wrong. You said yourself that you still need to get 90k melee xp/h from Slayer to balance it out.... I have shown you that you get over 100k. This goes past balancing and makes it better. Add on to that the approximately 35 crimsons per task and you are well past. I am unsure at how often each task is assigned, but Duradel assigns 24 different monsters. Blocking 4 leaves you with only 20. However, I believe that not each task has the same chance of being assigned. Even still, I get Dust Devils more often than 1:50, although I will concur that some people may not. Also on Zarfot's guide, out of 318 tasks he received Dust Devils 16 times, which is about 5% or 1/20. So far I have given you three examples of different tasks, all of which are around 100k melee xp/h without a combat familiar. The following tasks without piety, but instead superhuman strength are above 80k melee xp/h: Abyssal Demons - 84k (no familiar) Black Demons - 94.2k (no familiar) (Baby) Black Dragons - 83.2k (no familiar) Dust Devils - 104.8k (no familiar) Gargoyles - 92k (unsure, pretty sure it was without) Nechryaels - 88k (With I think) Spiritual Mages - 90k (unsure) Waterfiends - 84k (no familiar) Eight out of the 20 tasks have over 80k xp/h, many more tasks have even higher rats of Slayer xp/h, but they involve the cannon so I do not know the ratio of ranged:melee experience. Also, these tasks were among the more commonly assigned except for Nechryaels.

Since when was Slayer determined to be useless? Slayer has never been or will be useless. You still disagree with what I said about Dust Devils, I even gave picture proof from Zarfot's guide that they are faster. Up to 28.3k Slayer xp/h only melee, no combat familiar. Not only is that 113.2k Melee xp/h, that is the full 37.7k Hitpoints xp/h, rather than the 33.3k from Zombie Monkies. Why are you using the assumption of a combat familiar, I specifically mentioned many times this is without one. You could use a Unicorn, that alleviates the need for the time taken to heal. Personally, I don't alch drops, as when I slay I am on the Lunar Mage book, I pick up what I can, bank it, alch later. Also, you seem to say that the 5% difference in the Mask/Ammy is such a big difference. That is an extra 4.95 levels, so 4 when rounded down. you may hit 1 damage higher and a little more accurately. You would also wear say a Helm of Neitiznot, increased damage by maybe 1 more. Slayer mask and Fury will have a +8 str bonus and still 15% to levels, hitting approximately 2 higher, and it has +10 to the attack style being used. They are practically the same and the 5% difference isn't alot. I do not use piety on every task, but I do on most tasks. 30% less experience.... I doubt. If you think that you really need to do some tests or read Zarfot's rates as you claim you believe to be true. I use the 10% strength prayer as a minimum on every Slayer task I do. Want an exmaple of why it isn't 30% slower? Black Demons, no combat familiar using Superhuman Strength is up to 22k Slayer xp/h, With Piety it is up to 24.3k Slayer xp/h. That is a 9% drop, far off 30%. And look, that is 97.2k Melee xp/h, with no familiar, and that task will last over an hour anyway. Another example; Gargoyles, 23k Slayer xp per hour with Superhuman Strength. 25k with Piety. That is an 8% decrease, and you can gain up to 100k melee xp/h. You are even now saying Slayer is less than 50k melee xp/h, I have provided alot of evidence to the contary, you have provided none on the amount of Slayer xp/h. I never said it averaged faster, but on some tasks you can get over 96k melee xp/h. Again, I never mentioned averaging over that during Slayer, but that it is possible on some tasks. The time to finish a task, receive a new one, bank and get to the next place takes less than 3 minutes easily enough. You also get more than 8 crimsons per hour at Dust Devils. A task of about 150 will get you about 35 crimsons and takes well under an hour to complete. At 4.5k each crimson when bursting, that is a saving of 157.5k. You will even expect maybe 10 gold, 5 green and a couple blue. How can you honestly think 8 crimsons is high also? As for not picking up charms.... i'm sure the average player would. Unless you also want to tell me you think Summoning experience is valued at 0 also.

Why do you insist on saying that he is the only person that can get high Slayer xp/h. He is not the only player who uses piety. Piety is also not a 25% boost to experience necessarily, and not every task you use piety on either, and example is Kalphites, no point using piety here. Regardless of maxed combat, you are seeming to be biased. A played with 80 attack/strength/defence is not going to get that high a Slayer right. I never said anyone would and you don't need to keep saying that. However, a player with those stats is also not likely to get anywhere close to that rate at Zombie Monkies either. At that level they are also unlikely to have a decent combat familiar, further reducing experience. I only mentioned one task, and without the aid of a combat familiar it can be faster than Zombie Monkies. I know it is unlikely that you will get a string of these tasks. You say Slayer experience shoudln't be counted.... why not? It is a skill like the rest and experience shouldn't just be discounted. You forgot Hitpoints I assume? 100k melee xp is 33,333.33 Hitpoints xp, on top of the 10k experience from the familiar that is 143k Overall. When I said Slayer can get over that, I was referring to Overall experience, which is completely possible. Look at this: Maxed stats and piety yes. However as he said at 80 could get up to 3/4 rate (maybe a bit lower even). The average person who is willing to train Slayer to raise it, isn't going to be doing for just a little while. Only 1 of those tasks is below your 12.5k Slayer xp/h rate and that is Mithril Dragons, uncommon but short task. Even Steel Dragons are faster and that is simply melee only. Getting approximately those rates is 26-30k Slayer xp/h. Even at you illogical 30% reduction that is 18.2-21k Slayer xp/h, greater than what you say.

I mentioned that he was maxed combat already, but I do also use the fast methods for training Slayer. Runecrafting, while not really anything to do with this, (I admit i'm not the best) but using the abyss (before Summoning), I could average 2.5k essence per hour making natures, some of the time exceeding this. However, just because you can't get as much per hour at Runecrafting, why does that mean sSlayer should instantly be 30% lower, that makes no sense. You continue to misunderstand me. I'm not saying that this is the average and that Slayer will always be like this. I am pointing out 1 example where the experience possible per hour is greater than that of Zombie Monkies. As for getting Steel Dragons, if you really are going for fast Slayer experience, those should be blocked anyway, Iron Dragons and Skeletal Wyverns are about equal in xp/h, but I choose the Wyverns as I prefer the charms dropped, and hence I have blocked Iron Dragons. While Mithril Dragon are slow experience, the numbers are extremely small and they are rarely assigned. Slayer isn't a matter of "clicking at that level", this is far different from Runecrafting where the clicking is vital to fast speed. Sure, someone in the 80s won't get that much xp/h for Slayer, but they won't get that much for Zombie Monkies either. As for the mistake with 120k, I don't know where I got that from :-# sorry about that then. So far from what I have seen is you trust Zarfot's rates and that they are accurate. However, you then say (put simply) that Zarfot is good at this game, that the xp rates should be reduced by 30%. As in fact he admits that he can average about 30k Slayer xp/h, take off 30% that is still 21k is it not? Assuming you get 100k melee xp per hour and 10k from your familiar. That works out to approximately 143.3k Overall xp/h. Even averaging at only 20k Slayer xp hour, you are getting 126.6k Overall xp/h, but if you include Summoning in that it would about equal the Zombie Monkies. They are equal in xp/h, and if you do train fast Slayer is faster. The only difference is that the experience is split over many skills. Also unlike Zombie Monkies, you don't lose money, the specific amount made can't really be calculated.

I apologise about where you mentioned the salve ammy (e). In the context of where you said it, I had thought you were referring to Dust Devils still. Yet you say this was of the Zombie Monkies.... then you admit to have based your results on wrong rates. You said with all those bonuses, you don't get 100k melee xp/h at Monkies, yet all of your calculations and assumptions where based upon a 120k xp/h rate. I read through the entire guide again yesterday to make sure of what I was saying, I read through it again today. Nowhere did I see him say that the average play will only get 12.5k Slayer xp/h. I do however see that he says using these strategies you can average over 20k Slayer xp/h, I also came across this: I am not maxed combat, but I do know what I am doing and I get more than "slightly" higher than 12.5k Slayer xp/h on average. That is based over a variety of tasks also, from Black Dragons, Skeletal Wyverns (among the slowest) up to Scabarites (2nd fastest task in game). The reason why you can get this much experience at Dust Devils is due to their low defence and reasonably high hitpoints. This is especially apparent when you use the Slayer Helmet. Zarfot even claims that with a Geyser Titan he was able to get a bit over 30k Slayer Xp per hour. Without he said he was able to get up to 28.3k xp/h from solely meleeing. Now while tasks do not have enough assigned to last an hour, that is still the experience rate during the task. It is even possible to get say 134+ Dust Devils twice in a row. These 2 tasks combine last about an hour and will get you 28.3k Slayer xp/h equalling 113.2k melee xp/h. So yes, it is possible. Personally, I believe the "best" way to train is not necessarily the fastest way, but most efficient.

You obviously misread my post then. My numbers are from personal experience, and they are not far off at all. I admit my stats are not 99 99 99, but they are close at 94 94 94. I use superhuman strength prayer on every slayer task except a few, and on those few I use piety. If you're use a salve ammy (e) for them, that is your first problem. Super setting every 5 minutes is too excessive also, and while it would increase experience per hour, it isn't quite worth it at that rate. Simply saying your averages are correct, doesn't make it so either. What is even more hypocritical is you saying that you respect and agree for Zarfot's numbers. His numbers are higher than yours also at 70k+ melee xp/h on average. Again you misread my post: "Picking out one particularly good task as the 'average slayer XP' is a terrible idea, and completely invalidates your argument." I never said that was the average experience. I never expect to get 100k melee xp/h on every Slayer task, it would be foolish to think so, or for you to say I do. As for the last tiny bit, that is so stupid. Seeing as you misinterpretted what I said (purposely or accidentally, doesn't matter), and because you misunderstood, everything else I said is immediately wrong? Not everything I posted about was specifically the melee xp/h rate. Could you actually read all of my post first before you disregard the rest because you misunderstood?