ydrasil

When I said assuming the max hit calculator is correct, I was referring to the amount of damage dealt. I already knew the Sword and Dagger were switched. I used the one with the higher strength bonus (Sword). So unless someone using the Dagger with a lower strength bonus would hit higher, I don't see a mistake. The calc shows that the Whip always hits 1 damage higher compared to the Sword. When compared to the Dragon Scimitar, the Obsidian Sword will hit higher (by 3-4 damage, that is with best outfit) and hits higher by 1 damage with nothing but neck and weapon being compared. Again the Obsidian Sword is still less accurate. Keep in mind the other additional bonuses of the Fury compared to the Necklace. Increased prayer bonus, increased defence, increased accuracy, even increased strength bonus.

I agree that at higher levels the amount of times you miss is small regardless of the weapon on something with low defence. Even still, there will be a slight difference in hitting rate. However, in most cases the defence of the various monsters people fequently attack is higher. Assuming Tip.It's max hit calc is accurate, no matter your strength level, with the best outfit, comparing Whip+Fury to Obsidian Sword+Berserker Necklace, the Whip always hits one damage high, and with better accuracy makes it an all around better weapon. With no armour on the difference is increased to two. Even compared to max hit's with the Obsidian Mace, with no armour and no matter the strength level, the Whip always hits higher or equal to Mace - again with increased accuracy. With the best outfit however, then the maul hits higher as it is 20% damage not Strength level (although only by one extra damage). Although again, reduced accuracy and speed. To me it just doesn't seem worth using either of these two obsidian weapons. The only use is possibly for those who can't afford a Whip. Even then, they only need to save up twice as much for the whip.

My response will anwser the poster above your post also. It's true the defender isn't the miracle solution, but it sure does help, doesn't it? Even though there is a 20 attack point deficit when compared to whip+fury, that isn't a whole lot. Take right now, for example. My slayer task is Suqahs. With my guthans on to heal, my attack bonuses are a flat +97. And I rarely miss. Remember these are level 111 suqahs, with considerable defence. That being said, I'm convinced +80ish (I'm using a glory) instead of +97 will work fine. I am 89 attack, however. I must go back to Highlander's post. A major factor is your level. If you rarely miss anyway, the extra strength bonus will help a lot. The 20 point attack deficiency is only when comparing the worn neck item. When you compare the weapons also, the difference is great. The TokTz-Xil-Ak has a +47 stab attack bonus and +38 slash attack bonus. Assuming you use stab, the bonus is down to only +37. Whereas the Whip now has +92. A decrease of 55 in bonus is significant in terms of hitting rate. Even if the Npc/Player has low defence, you will still hit more often with the Whip. That is without including the Rune Defender, as it has the same effect on each. All other equipment doesn't specifically matter as it has the same effect on both. In the end, the Whip will always be more accurate, and result in more damage per hour. P.S Just a correction on my previous post, the Fury does have +5 prayer bonus, but the necklace has +3. However that is still a +2 bonus in favour of the Whip.

There are some things missing here. You state that the loss in attack bonuses can be offsetted by the Rune Defender. This is not entirely true. While the Defender does increase attack bonuses, the overall bonus is still less then what it would be without the necklace. So even with the Defender, accuracy is still reduced. Something else that no-one has pointed out either yet is for this to be a comparison to the Abyssal Whip/Dragon Scimitar, a suitable amulet is worn, in this case a Fury. What wasn't pointed out is that the Fury gives positive bonuses to attack (+10 to all). This means overall, simply by comparing the amulet/necklace worn, the person with the Fury is already ahead by +20. Seeing as the Whip/Scimitar already has a higher attack bonuses compared to the TokTz-Xil-Ak/TzHaar-Ket-Em (Sword/Maul), the difference is even greater. Also the Fury gives positive defence bonuses (+15). Meaning that this person is already ahead in defence by +35 defence to all areas (slash/mage etc). People say the defence reduction is too small to be of a difference, but it is. Also note that the Fury has +5 prayer bonus whereas the Berserker Necklace has none. This decreases prayer drain, extends usage of prayer potions and overall saves more money. The Fury even has +1 better strength bonus, but that really is too negligiable to count.

I've got more, but this is one of them so far: Granite Shield

If you'll have me, i'll join. Only 80 slayer so I am can't kill dark beasts (maybe the Abyssal demon's/Spirit Mages with pies :pray: ), so as you mentioned, going for 45-50+ or so sounds reasonable : Time to go start slayering the evil fiends that are hoarding the special items ;)

With the nature runecrafting, one of the most likely reasons is the amount of people that can and do craft them now for money. People just hitting 44 have the ability to make natures and not laws and deaths yet. Even at this level it is possible to make a fair deal of profit per hour, assuming most people that are only getting this level now are low levels. The profit to them is in most cases substantial. Runecafting through the abyss is fast and the times given in this thread are a bit on the low side. When I have made Natures through the abyss, I have been able to get an average of 2.5k essence per hour (5k natures). This is approximately 72 seconds per trip, Graahk runecrafting it is posible to average out at under 60 seconds a trip. This means you can craft over 3k essence per hour. Due to current price that is a pretty low profit per hour for most people. At over 91 that is only just breaking 1m/h at the moment. For now the best option is to runecraft deaths/laws if you want to make money (if you aren't 91+), or if you are over 91, make natures but don't sell yet and wait for them to rise again (they always do ;) ). As others have said though, there are many ways in which this could be "fixed", the best of which is simply making more experience gained when mining pure essence compared to rune.

I will try to respond to each paragraph independently. 1.Obviously your numbers are way off as it is rather hard to determine how fast you collect ranarrs, whether it is farming or chaos druids or whatever. However, I will stick with your far-fetched numbers. And well your intention was correct but you made a huge mistake in your comparison, you assumed that 360 prayer pots cost 200k.....they cost 2.2mil. So if you make under 440k an hour, you should collect the materials. Or if you collected the materials, then sold materials on ge, then bought 360 prayer pots you essentially make 520k an hour. So anyone who can make over 520k+ an hour should make/buy, unfortunately not alot of people fall into the 520+ an hour category. 2.The switching to waterbirth etc can be integrated into the 5 hour time that you gave. 3.You are correct on mostly everything there. 4.Agh..this paragraph is full of errors. Aright let me start. First of all let me make your entire argument collapse. Whenever you calculated the costs for buying/making you never calculated the amount of cash it takes to actually buy raw materials, only the difference. Before I go on, let me say that the amount of time you calculated for each item to be bought through ge is ridicolous, no one buys items 1 at a time. I'd say that you can buy all 360 in less than 10 seconds. Since that paragraph is rather messy ill try to show you a comparison to show where you went wrong Buying/Making(360 p pots) Time-1 hour Money Lost-near 2.6mil Buying Time:less than a minute Money lost-near 2.2mil So unless your caluculation of exp is Exp of 360 prayer pots=400k + 1 hour time. I dont know about you but buying is obviously the better option me. :wall: So that was my mistake. While I was working it out I noticed the numbers were not what I thought they would be, just couldn't work out why (hence the "P.S." at the end). I agree with the 520k+/h as being the line between collecting/selling and buying/making. The difference for outright bought and buying supplies and making is 200,880gp, 31.5k experience, and an unknown amount of time. Time buying through the GE cannot be calculated imo. I have put 170k Natures in GE once and they took between 1-2 hours to all sell with people buying between around 1-15k at a time. On another occasion I have put 140k Natures in GE, the progress bar turned green instantly. Both at average price, and roughly the same amount. However the GE can work while you are off the computer which further supports a very tiny time also. So while I did get my numbers wrong, if the average time to buy through GE is increased, you do still have to make more money to pay it off. Although that only comes into play if it takes over an hour to buy. Now, the excuse I shall be using for such silly mistakes is that school holidays has started and my brain is operating at a lower energy level to conserve its power. Sounds good right? :

I know this was a a couple of pages ago, but I felt I should reply to it. [hide=Quote] Wait, so making potions dont take time? Why is it 0 seconds for buying and making? And in your situation you forgot to add just buying the finished product. That would cost you "0 gp" and 0 seconds. The reason I saw 0 gp is because 558 is the money difference, what about the 6k or so for the prayer pot itself? So according to your examples, buying is better than both of the examples you showed. [/hide] I see my mistake, I seemed to have forgot that only the potion is made in one of those methods. If we assume that on average it takes 10 seconds to make 1 prayer potion, then 360 can be made per hour. This means that within that hour you have lost 200,880gp. To collect the items to make the same amount would take 6 hours (numbers are way off :lol: ). This leaves you with 5 hours "fee time". So if you make over 40.1k/h, it is better to buy the product and then make. Also note I have assumed the buying/selling of the necessary items through the ge to be instantaneous. Just as I have assumed the transportation between the different areas you use to gain the items yourself (not the actual collecting though). I mean by that, swapping to lunar magic and using waterbirth island teleport to collect the snape grass to be 0 seconds, even though it isn't. As for simply buying the product, I didn't calculate that I admit. Though I thought the discussion was about the difference in collecting and buying/making. Buying the finished product would not cost "0gp" as you say, it is the full price of 6,689gp at 0 seconds of time (assume GE instantaneous). You gain no experience, use no time, and end up with the finished product. First i'll compare this to collecting yourself to buying outright. This means if you can make over 435k/h on average, it is better off buying the item rather then collecting. Also when compared to buying the needed items and making the potion. The time taken can be assumed to be 10 seconds (time to make potion). This means in an hour you could make 360 of them (numbers are not exact remember ;) ) This means that this should only occur if you make over 2.2m/h. Keeping in mind you gain experience, and that has a value, making it over 2.2m. This number believe it or not, is actually very low. You could even assume that each prayer potion bought takes 1 second to buy through GE. Meaning to buy the same amount of prayer potions (360) would take 6 minutes leaving you with 54 minutes free. to make up for the loss in money over 2.45m/h needs to be made as you have less time to make up for the loss in money. If 9 seconds each to be bought through GE, 22m/h needs to be made on average (for the remaining 6 minutes). So that shows another reason why I assume GE to be instantaneous. I hope I answered everything there and sorry if it was messy and hard to understand : . But as you can see, the best thing to do is to buy the items, and make yourself. P.S If i made any mistakes, let me know #-o

I am not sure which side I would take on this. "Buying" skills doesn't always mean you are wasting money or anything. I prefer to play in a way that offers efficiency, that doesn't specifically mean the fastest way. The examples muggi gave show a very good example of this, I would prefer to do the chins in that case. I'll try to summarise and show why (numbers not exact): Using Chins Cost: -30m Time: 60 hours Ranging Aviansie Cost: +150m Time: 300 hours Both ways get you to 99 range, one costs money and is 5x faster the other makes a fair deal and is alot slower. Think of the difference in time to be "free". You get 99 range 240 hours earlier hence allowing you to use that time to make money. If in that time you can make over 180m, then it is more efficient to use chinchompas. This means you have to be able to at minimum make 750k/h on average. While Runecrafting I can make a profit of around 1.2m/h meaning I would get 99 range faster (including time to make the money) and make the same amount of money from using chins. I would even still have 90 hours extra, and could even make an additional 108m on top of that in the same time it takes to get 99 range by aviansies. To me, it just seems far more logical and better to use chins. However, even knowing that, there are some skills which I feel are just less of an achievement specifically because they can be "bought". Cooking and Fletching being the most prominent. Skills should never be trained just for the cape, that just doesn't make sense to me. Proud to have played for almost 5 years and to have no 99's \

There is a reason for this loss in money, and that is experience. Experience is worth something. For example, which your example on prayer potions, you have a loss of 558gp, but also a gain of 87.5 experience. This means that every point of experience has a cost of approximately 6.38gp when levelling using this method - meaning getting this skill to 99 is worth approximately 82.9Million. It is also not only the experience that matters, the experience might be high and the product very low in demand. This means the product is close to worthless, resulting in more money being lost. [hide=The Reason Why]Collecting items yourself to make the product is also possible, however selling the items raw rather then the completed product gains you more money with which you can just outright buy them with. However, for this you also used up time. Time is worth money also. Example, it might have taken 1 minute to collect the items needed for 1 prayer potion, which you sold, and bought the prayer potion. This gains you the desired item with 558gp left over. Having just bought the items, making yourself has a loss of 558gp but a gain of 87.5 experience with no use of time (buying/selling, making the potion can be considered constant and can be taken out of the equation). This means if you value experience as worthless and you can make over 33.5k gp/h on average, it is better off buying the item and going with the loss of time. To sum up: Collecting yourself: Time taken - 60 seconds Resulting money - +558gp Experience - 0 Buying/Making: Time taken - 0 seconds Resulting money - -558gp Experience - +87.5 This leaves you with a theoretical 60 seconds of "free time". If in this amount of time you can make back the money you would have lost, it is more efficient to buy and make the item. If you value experience higher the amount needed to make per hour is less and makes it even more efficient.[/hide] This applies with every "refining" skill, even ones that don't have refining.Keep in mind, Runecrafting is also a "refining skill", but it makes money. Also, it seems you are inferring that people who like training these types of skills are below you (just how I see it). Just because you play for those things, does not mean everyone does or should. People do find fishing/cooking/etc. fun, that doesn't mean they need help. It allows the player to multitask whilst training the skill. To me, I find Runecrafting fun and enjoyable, not alot of people do. For the other argument, you say why would you want something that gives no advantage over you. Not everything is about gaining an advantage. There are alot of people who care about total level/experience/combat, if there wasn't, what need is there for highscores. Why do people bother training a skill up to 200mil? it gains no additional advantage over someone with 13,034,431 experience in that skill after all. P.S Sorry if my post was long, just wanted to explain my point of view :

There are better spots to use then this. Warped terrorbirds can actually be worth around 35k slayer experience/hour. I'll direct you to the official Runescape forums, thread 22-23-733-55654062 "Mega Slayer Guide 2" by Zarfot, Page 10, 2nd-3rd post. Your guide is good thoug. However give this way a go now :

Power management; reduces your CPU's power consumption when your on battery and do not need the extra processing power. Most likely answer, unless you were looking in the wrong place for you CPU speed. Well my computer was plugged into a power point so it wouldn't need to use battery power (not a laptop btw). Also, i looked at the exact same place all 3 times. Thankfully all following checks have been 2.20GHz, so I should be fine with the graphics \

Now, I am fairly certain that my computer meets the requirements. However, when I checked this morning it said it had 991 MHz which I thought was really low. I read this topic just now, and decided to recheck it, and it said 1.79GHz this time. Now, me being really confused checked a third time and it comes up 2.20GHz. Atm this is what they are: 2.20GHz, 1.00GB of RAM As for my graphics card, I have: Radeon X1300 Series 256MB So if anyone would like to have a go at answering why I had 3 different processor reading's, I would appreciate it :

I have played this game for just over 4 years - Just after Sycthe's were dropped :(, and it all this time of playing the game, only one thing really seems to annoy me. Quite simply it is people who are hypocrites, mainly in area's where you fight one another like (old) wildy, Castle wars, Fight Pits, etc. For me this problem mainly occurs in Fight pits, as I never used to Pk and I don't do Castle wars much. In Fight pits there is no rules for saying you can't eat, use prayer, "farcast", use pots or anything of the like. Now whilst in a fight and someone eats or uses a protection prayer, it is annoying but, I never try to insult them because they do. I instead prepare my inventory to counter these, (e.g using veracs to hit through prayer, changing to another corner of the combat triangle). Now with that said, what annoy's me isn't just when other people insult other for doing such things, it is when they do it themselves. Most common cases are where people get piled by others. I have seen in happen numerous times, and in furthur rounds, or even another day, they themselves are doing the same thing. I am not saying this isn't allowed, but it seems so stupid that you will insult someone for doing something that gives them an advantage, when you can do it yourself, or actually do it yourself. Below is one example that I have been involved in. [hide=Example]It was at Fight Pits; During one round I was attacked by 2 people and I died. The next round the same two people did it again, but this time another person (level 97 I think) decided to help me, and one of the original two attacking me died. As I went to attack the other person, a 5th person (level 112) attacked the 97 telling him not pile and that he was a noob etc. Once I killed my foe, I then helped the 97 against the 112. then during this fight a 6th person (level 100) helped the 112 in attacking me and the 97, we both died. In the next round, I went to attack the 112 as he went with the help of a level 100 and another 97, to attack the 97 that helped me. He died quickly, but then the 3 people attacked me and one of them said that "we run this hood" and that I should"go back to the waiting room" again I died. I asked the 112 why insult someone for piling when you do it yourself. He replied with "I attacked him first, maybe they just helped". Now as you can see, this is where the 2nd part of my title comes in. "they just helped," even though they might've 'just helped' it was indeed still the act that he accused the 97 of. Also from what the 2nd 97 said who attacked me, it seemed to be planned rather than a case of 'just helping'[/hide] Also to furthur represent the 2nd part of my title another example that happened shortly after the previous one: [hide=Example 2]None of the same people from previous example (except for me of course) *Round starts* *Level 112 and 105 attack me* *Seeing this a 115 runs in and attacks the 105 with a bandos godsword special hitting a 51* 115: Bye bye def 112: When u enterd rs 112: Bye bye life Me: You entered it also, otherwise you wouldn't be here..... 112: Na Me: Bye bye intelligence[/hide] How can he possible try and say that because he plays Runescape he has no life, yet it somehow doesn't apply to him? There is no logic in that. Now I understand there can be no solution to a problem like this. I just hate how people can think that because of how you choose to play a game differs from another person's, that they think it gives them the right to insult them (even though some do it themselves). I already use my Ignore list for some occurances, and you simply can't hop to another world, because this happens again - with different people, eventaully. Sorry for the long rant, I just had to say it. Feel free to post similar experiences.

I have also read that guide and was why I doubted that the time was indeed 45 seconds a trip. But 35k experience an hour is 3634 essence made into Astrals + 303 essence made into deaths (just short of 35k). Even though it is possible to complete 2.5-2.8k essence an hour through the abyss with 75+ runecrafting, I seem to doubt that this big of an increase could be made with Astrals. I was wondering whether I should go time this myself to see what the really is per trip.

Now I do agree that this is faster experience than crafting natures through the abyss, but I disagree about it making more money. There are more costs involved that have not been factored in. You also need to include that every 11th trip you will need to go to the abyss to repair the giant pouch. Also, having timed only one trip isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t good enough to fully find the average time every trip and hence more accurately find its experience and profit per hour. For those who donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want to see how I got my results, or are lazy, or just arenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t interested, I will post a summary at the bottom. [hide=Working out]However, using your time of 45 seconds, this results in 80 trips an hour. You will need to go to the abyss 6-7 times in this hour depending on the initial state of your pouch. An average abyss trip for me is around 75 seconds, but for this, we will round it off to an even 80. Providing that your giant pouch has only just been fixed and can last 11 more trips, this means you really make 69 trips an hour to Astral altar, and 6 to the Abyss. Since you will be running, super energies will be used. I prefer to use 4 dose ones rather than 3, and at current ge prices, it works out cheaper to use 4 dose potions by 0.083333ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ.gp per dose (only just cheaper). Now, you will be making an average of 52.67 essence into 105.3 astrals every trip, which is 458.2 experience on average. Now when you go the abyss to repair pouches, you will be also crafting runes that trip ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ average of 50.5 a trip. Now which rune will you choose to make, laws would be the obvious choice seeing as it is currently worth the most (303gp), on the other hand, you trips through the abyss will be slower as you cannot take a weapon (pickaxe) with you, thereby making deaths the choice (297gp). So therefore every trip you make an average experience of 505 a trip. In total with these values you make 34,645.8xp/h. Now to work out the profit an hour. You make 108 astrals a trip, but you use up 2 astrals and a law every trip to teleport back to Moonclan to bank. To make this easier, I will determine the profit per trip on average. First we wind out the profit made by making the Astrals, this is equal to: (103.3*171) ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ (52.67*113) = 11,718.3333 Next we take off the price of a law per trip: 11,718.3333 ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ 303 = 11,415.3333 Then we take off the average price of super energies used per trip: 11,415.3333 ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ (649/3) = 11,199 That is the average profit per trip made whilst Runecrafting Astral runes. Now we need to work out the profit per trip going to the abyss. You make 8,938.5 profit from Runecrafting the deaths a trip. After taking off the price using a trip due to super energies, this brings it down to 8,614. With these values, we come to a total of profit per hour of: (11,199*69) + (8,614*6) = 824,415gp[/hide] Summary At 82 Runecrafting: 34,645.8xp/h 824,415gp/h So while yes this is faster experience per hour than making natures through the abyss, it is less profit per hour. Although at a profit:experience ratio, as it is 23.8 compared to natures which is approximately 42 (lower is better). Saying this, the demand for astrals is less than natures, and will take longer to sell. I hope I helped.

If there is a death, why would you cancel the trip? You simply bless the grave, and continue the trip as if nothing had happened. As for it being hard, one person runs to grave, blesses, runs back in and continues fighting... Where is the difficult part?

I have to agree to agree with Klanaos, 900-1300 essence per hour is very slow indeed. I can use all 4 pouches, and do an average of around 52 essence a trip. I can consistently do 2.5k essence an hour. Assuming with 50-74 runecrafting you do around 42 essence per hour on average, you can do around 2k essence/hour resulting in 18k Experience/hour. With essence at 80 each, natures around 280 each, you get 400k an hour then minus the price of super energies, and you are left with approximately 364-376k an hour (dependant on price and equipment worn). There are many little tricks you can do that increase your speed per trip only slightly but, when you combine alot of them together, the time reduction adds up nicely. Doing at least 40 trips an hour is where you should be at for prolonged runecrafting, otherwise there are many other better ways to make money. Using the Ourania Altar is faster experience, but there is no way someone made 70m from x-91 runecrafting. At 90 rc, before the price dropped, you could make approx 108gp (max amount before 91) per essence and 17.96 experience per essence. From level 1, it takes 5,902,831 experience to get to 91. Even using a combination of average experience at 50 rc (15.97) and maximum amount of profit per essence (108). The maximum amount of profit here is just short of 40million. Seeing as you can't get to those max gp/ess while getting min xp/ess, you are looking at around 30m or less being made.

No I don't know Jard_Y_Dooku, but if I ever do go for 126 combat, I will most likely skip 125 as well.

It did take alot of planning and execution. The first time I tried this while planning to skip combat level 108, I lost concentration while getting my hitpoints experience to just under 60 off. I ended up being around 30 experience off, this caused me to level hitpoints while killing the ghast - getting 108 combat, then killing it got me attack, strength, defence and prayer - 109. Sadly, not all combat levels not be skipped :( For those still unsure, this was how I did it: Ghasts have 45 hitpoints which gives 60 experience to attack, strength, defence and hitpoints using controlled, and also 30 prayer experience upon their defeat. It took me ages to get it just right, but I was around 57-59 experience from every skill (att, str..... etc). I was also within 30 prayer experience from 74. While I only needed any combination of 4 of these skills to skip, I got 5, just because I could :D

Thanks for the replies already, just fixed the bank picture. Normal size now :

I did this ages ago but never got around to editing and uploading the video. It is a video of me going from 111 Combat to 113, never being 112. I had also attempted this once previously but it failed (accidentally got to much hitpoints experience :( ). So anyway, here is the video of it: While I am making this topic here is my bank: [hide=Bank] [/hide] My Stats: [hide=Stats][/hide] And also my outfit: [hide=Outfit][/hide] Feel free to rate them :

I have a few more to post: I checked, the only person who has 200m Woodcutting experience has 99 in attack, strength, defence and hitpoints with 1861 total. I don't think this person is an autoer or level 3. Where it says "noob" in red, is when I actually said his name, didn't actually call him noob :D Found this one on my computer, it was on the day after the realease of the dark bow. I had just 2 hit someone with it..... it is funny to me because he contradicts himself :

When I said it was illogical, it really was. In the way he said it, he makes it seem insulting to of kept an 'irl friendlist' as something bad, yet few more lines down he says that he actually does that and thought that everyone else did. He is contradicting himself. More than half the things he says are stupid as in when he says "Tell me, how long did it take u to figure out how to spell attempt" when from what I see I never spelt it wrong and yet he himself did at one point. When people try to insult me, I always resort to using logic. In some cases they become confused, or thereafter continually try and only further make themmselves seem bad. P.S Who is Lieutenant Tuvok?